Josh D'Amaro claims recent positive changes not due to "leadership change"

[Jrb1979]

So you still need to rope drop to get anything good.

All these issues come back to that too many people are using Genie+ each day. The only solution is to limit availability of Genie+.

 

[starlite_]

So you still need to rope drop to get anything good.

No?? When we went in the summer we could get a Space Mountain LL at like 9pm. Nothing ran out until super later at night because everyone was on the same field to get them. No one could hoard them before others.

 

[Jrb1979]

No?? When we went in the summer we could get a Space Mountain LL at like 9pm. Nothing ran out until super later at night because everyone was on the same field to get them. No one could hoard them before others.

It also works better at Disneyland as they have more attractions.

 

[StarCruzer]

Honestly, the dream would be for every ride to have a virtual queue. As in, you can be in one "line" at a time but it's a completely virtual one so you can snack, walk around, etc. while you wait. Pull out the stanchions for the interactive queues, fence out the perimeter, add benches/shade, and have those be exclusive waiting areas for people in the virtual line.

Unfortunately, Disney has made something like this almost impossible. The park capacity (in terms of food, shops, and non-line entertainment) has been built around the concept of trapping customers in line for hours on end. If they suddenly were in a virtual line and could do other things while waiting, food service would likely be completely overrun.

I honestly think G+ should be more expensive, and more premium service. Buy in advance, create an ordered list of rides for your park reservation day, algorithm pre-books 1-2 attractions for you. If you don't like the attractions that have been booked (i.e., the rides you want are already sold out) then you can cancel for a full refund.

The reason I say make it more expensive is that the more people who can buy it, the longer both standby and LL lines are going to be for everyone. Raise the price, create attraction tiers like FP+ had. Guarantee 1 top tier attraction and 4 lower tier attractions per person, per day. Less people will buy it, but those that do will actually get something of value. And then, once there are no more LL options for tier one....stop selling the service! Let it actually sell out, instead of people buying the service, frantically trying to get on the rides they want, and being disappointed when all the good G+ selections are gone.

 

[Jrb1979]

The more I think about it, the only other option I can see working is getting rid of stacking. The max LL you can hold is 2. That would open up a lot of availability.

 

[Jrb1979]

Honestly, the dream would be for every ride to have a virtual queue. As in, you can be in one "line" at a time but it's a completely virtual one so you can snack, walk around, etc. while you wait. Pull out the stanchions for the interactive queues, fence out the perimeter, add benches/shade, and have those be exclusive waiting areas for people in the virtual line.

Unfortunately, Disney has made something like this almost impossible. The park capacity (in terms of food, shops, and non-line entertainment) has been built around the concept of trapping customers in line for hours on end. If they suddenly were in a virtual line and could do other things while waiting, food service would likely be completely overrun.

I honestly think G+ should be more expensive, and more premium service. Buy in advance, create an ordered list of rides for your park reservation day, algorithm pre-books 1-2 attractions for you. If you don't like the attractions that have been booked (i.e., the rides you want are already sold out) then you can cancel for a full refund.

The reason I say make it more expensive is that the more people who can buy it, the longer both standby and LL lines are going to be for everyone. Raise the price, create attraction tiers like FP+ had. Guarantee 1 top tier attraction and 4 lower tier attractions per person, per day. Less people will buy it, but those that do will actually get something of value. And then, once there are no more LL options for tier one....stop selling the service! Let it actually sell out, instead of people buying the service, frantically trying to get on the rides they want, and being disappointed when all the good G+ selections are gone.

The only problem with raising the price and pricing people out is that instead of not buying Genie+ they just won't go to Disney anymore.

 

[starlite_]

It also works better at Disneyland as they have more attractions.

I am now curious as to how many visitors a single park at WDW has vs a single park at DLR. Because if it's around the same then yeah I can see how LL availability might run out a lot faster.

 

[StarCruzer]

The only problem with raising the price and pricing people out is that instead of not buying Genie+ they just won't go to Disney anymore.

Well, the hope would be that increased G+ prices would make the standby lines go faster (standby lines got longer in WDW after FP+ was rolled out) and subsidize the costs for others.

For example, if a premium version of G+ like the one I described above was close to the pricing of Universal's Express pass--let's say, $80 per person, per day--one person buying the service would make up for the loss of three others choosing NOT to purchase it.

So let's say today, that 10,000 people per day are buying G+ at a cost of $22 per person ($220,000 for Disney). They raise the price to $80 per person, per day with the service I roughly outlined (one guaranteed tier 1 ride, 4 lower tier rides). That's too expensive for a lot of people, so let's say only 3,000 people buy the service. Disney would still be making $240,000 on those 3K people. And those who didn't pay for the full G+ service may decide to use that "saved" money to buy one or two LLs, more merch, etc.

Plus, since only 3K people are using the service to cut the line, the standby lines will move faster than having 10K people "cutting" the line for premium service. This creates a better experience for everyone: Those who buy G+ get to use LLs five times guaranteed, LL lines are shorter, and standby lines are shorter.

But hey, I'm not a Professional Parks & Products Person, so there's obviously no guarantee that's how it would all work out. That's what predictive analytics is for!

 

[Smugpugmug]

I am now curious as to how many visitors a single park at WDW has vs a single park at DLR. Because if it's around the same then yeah I can see how LL availability might run out a lot faster.

In 2021, Magic Kingdom had 12.6 million visitors and Disneyland had 8.5 million. For reference, Hollywood Studios also had around 8.5 million and California Adventure was around 4.9 million. This data was found here.

 

[Jrb1979]

I am now curious as to how many visitors a single park at WDW has vs a single park at DLR. Because if it's around the same then yeah I can see how LL availability might run out a lot faster.

The other big difference is that AK, DHS and Epcot don't have a lot of attractions.

Well, the hope would be that increased G+ prices would make the standby lines go faster (standby lines got longer in WDW after FP+ was rolled out) and subsidize the costs for others.

For example, if a premium version of G+ like the one I described above was close to the pricing of Universal's Express pass--let's say, $80 per person, per day--one person buying the service would make up for the loss of three others choosing NOT to purchase it.

So let's say today, that 10,000 people per day are buying G+ at a cost of $22 per person ($220,000 for Disney). They raise the price to $80 per person, per day with the service I roughly outlined (one guaranteed tier 1 ride, 4 lower tier rides). That's too expensive for a lot of people, so let's say only 3,000 people buy the service. Disney would still be making $240,000 on those 3K people. And those who didn't pay for the full G+ service may decide to use that "saved" money to buy one or two LLs, more merch, etc.

Plus, since only 3K people are using the service to cut the line, the standby lines will move faster than having 10K people "cutting" the line for premium service.

But hey, I'm not a Professional Parks & Products Person, so there's obviously no guarantee that's how it would all work out. That's what predictive analytics is for!

I think it would work but it would upset many people. Waiting in long lines is not an option for most Disney guests. IMO a lot of that has to do with that the majority of Disney guests don't visit other parks much.

 

[StarCruzer]

The other big difference is that AK, DHS and Epcot don't have a lot of attractions.

I think it would work but it would upset many people. Waiting in long lines is not an option for most Disney guests. IMO a lot of that has to do with that the majority of Disney guests don't visit other parks much.

Honestly if you haven't yet seen Defunctland's FastPass documentary, it talks about the history of Disney lines and why they're such a huge issue today:

I never thought a documentary about lines would be interesting, but I promise, it's so well done and absolutely fascinating!

 

[Douglas Dubh]

In 2021, Magic Kingdom had 12.6 million visitors and Disneyland had 8.5 million. For reference, Hollywood Studios also had around 8.5 million and California Adventure was around 4.9 million. This data was found here.

Isn’t some of that because the California parks were still closed for some of 2021, and had more restrictions once they reopened?

 

[Jrb1979]

Honestly if you haven't yet seen Defunctland's FastPass documentary, it talks about the history of Disney lines and why they're such a huge issue today:

I never thought a documentary about lines would be interesting, but I promise, it's so well done and absolutely fascinating!

I have watched it and I know why they created FastPass. That video also shows you how little capacity has changed at WDW since then. Yes they have added new attractions but many just replaced older attractions so the net positive is not much.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Honestly if you haven't yet seen Defunctland's FastPass documentary, it talks about the history of Disney lines and why they're such a huge issue today:

I never thought a documentary about lines would be interesting, but I promise, it's so well done and absolutely fascinating!

This video gets posted on every thread that talks about a skip the line service at Disney lol. Not a bad thing though as it's a good video.

Isn’t some of that because the California parks were still closed for some of 2021, and had more restrictions once they reopened?

If you look at previous years (before Covid), Magic Kingdom was around 20 million, Disneyland 18.5 million, California Adventure 9 million and Hollywood Studios is around 10-11 million.

 

[StarCruzer]

Haha well, I should have known that this group is the exact audience for that type of video

But yes, it comes down to reduced capacity for more people. It's why I strongly believe that adding non-ride attractions back into the park would make a huge difference. An indoor playground in each park would go a long way in absorbing crowds, especially those with younger kids. I honestly miss the indoor arcades in the park as well (Disney Dance Dance Revolution, anyone?)

 

[_19disnA]

I thought it was interesting that Josh D'Amaro claims all of the positive changes Disney Parks announced yesterday were not due to a "change in leadership".

Strikes me as one of the two things. 1) Typical corporate spin on why changes are being made when they don't want to discuss the real reason behind it or 2) D'Amaro wants to claim credit for these changes being 'his' idea (political posturing on his part).

 

[snikki]

Surely this is coming, if there aren't 3rd parties and travel agents doing it already!

Whatever changes or additions are made to genie+ I doubt highly Iger and the dream team would ever consider getting up at 7am while on vacation to book a ride no matter where they vacation.

People go on vacation for rest, relaxation and fun.
Genie+ is not any of those.
It's nothing short of a f@%!ed up mess!

I would love to sign up with a company who can make our genie+ reservations for us!

There is a company that I ran across on Instagram that does this. Standbyskipper

I have never used them and I don't really know how they work but I follow one vlogger from touring plans on instagram that uses them and she seems to enjoy it.

 

[Jrb1979]

Whatever changes or additions are made to genie+ I doubt highly Iger and the dream team would ever consider getting up at 7am while on vacation to book a ride no matter where they vacation.

People go on vacation for rest, relaxation and fun.
Genie+ is not any of those.
It's nothing short of a f@%!ed up mess!

I would love to sign up with a company who can make our genie+ reservations for us!

Maybe it's just me but if I'm going on vacation for rest and relaxation I would go to a beach resort. For my family spending all that money for tickets we make sure to get our moneys worth. We have a 3 year old and we stay in the parks all day.

 

[_19disnA]

That video also shows you how little capacity has changed at WDW since then. Yes they have added new attractions but many just replaced older attractions so the net positive is not much.

I think Disney needs to study more about queuing theory if they really want to find solutions. Letting more and more people into the parks as demand has grown over the years, but not significantly increasing ride/show capacity is part of what created longer lines. If you have to wait up to 2 hrs in one ride line, you will be able to do less in your day at the park and probably leave frustrated.

They knew Star Wars was going to be a big draw, but yet they designed a ride that got sold out within minutes of the park opening. Clearly insufficient capacity. I am waiting for the same problem to arise when Tron opens since it is apparently a clone of a ride in one of their international parks which gets far fewer visitors. Why this should be a surprsie to anyone baffles me.

FastPass or Genie doesn't solve the problem of too few rides/shows/activities for the number of people being let into the park.

 

[FoxC63]

Maybe it's just me but if I'm going on vacation for rest and relaxation I would go to a beach resort. For my family spending all that money for tickets we make sure to get our moneys worth. We have a 3 year old and we stay in the parks all day.

Your idea differs from mine as does our age and health concerns.
If I want a beach vacation, I'd book a beach vacation or better yet toss some Epson salt in the tub and call it day.

I'm referring to a Disney vacation and the mere fact you have to get up so early in the am just to book a ride and if you happen to book a ride at 11am, that's pretty messed up. Why is that such a hard concept to follow?

You have a young child congrats that's awesome but our days of getting up early are done. What you're doing now, we've been there and done it many times over at Disney and other places and have had no complaints. None.

As stated before I doubt highly Iger and the dream team would ever consider getting up at 7am while on vacation to book a ride no matter where they vacation.