"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[soccerdad72]

I have no issues with this - nothing wrong with moving towards less gender-based terms and pronouns, IMO.

 

[skyblue17]

Yes it does. If you're TG, that means you were either: a) born a man and now claim to be a woman or b) born a woman and now claim to be a man. Either way, they're included in "ladies and gentlemen."

Except, if you're non-binary or gender fluid, you might not really identify with either one. Eliminating those words is more inclusive.

 

[Hikergirl]

Except, if you're non-binary or gender fluid, you might not really identify with either one. Eliminating those words is more inclusive.

And if you are one of those who identify as one of those you are in a very very small minority so you suck it up. The term ladies and gentlemen is not said to offend anyone, it’s said to include the vast majority of people.
I personally don’t care how people are addressed but the idea of changing the way we communicate based on a very tiny portion of the populations feelings is ridiculous.

 

[RamblingMad]

And if you are one of those who identify as one of those you are in a very very small minority so you suck it up. The term ladies and gentlemen is not said to offend anyone, it’s said to include the vast majority of people.
I personally don’t care how people are addressed but the idea of changing the way we communicate based on a very tiny portion of the populations feelings is ridiculous.

It’s not ridiculous.

 

[soccerdad72]

And if you are one of those who identify as one of those you are in a very very small minority so you suck it up. The term ladies and gentlemen is not said to offend anyone, it’s said to include the vast majority of people.
I personally don’t care how people are addressed but the idea of changing the way we communicate based on a very tiny portion of the populations feelings is ridiculous.

I don't personally care how people are addressed either, but if there is a simple way to make additional people feel more included, I don't think it's a bad thing. And I don't think many of these initiatives are being done because anyone's feeling are being hurt. In many cases, I truly feel it's just a way of making sure everyone feels included.

 

[Hikergirl]

It’s not ridiculous.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, you aren’t changing mine

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't personally care how people are addressed either, but if there is a simple way to make additional people feel more included, I don't think it's a bad thing. And I don't think many of these initiatives are being done because anyone's feeling are being hurt. In many cases, I truly feel it's just a way of making sure everyone feels included.

Well I technically meant their feelings of gender fluidity or whatever. But yes also their emotions/feelings of hearing the term ladies and gentlemen when addressing a group of men and women

 

[ronandannette]

And if you are one of those who identify as one of those you are in a very very small minority so you suck it up. The term ladies and gentlemen is not said to offend anyone, it’s said to include the vast majority of people.
I personally don’t care how people are addressed but the idea of changing the way we communicate based on a very tiny portion of the populations feelings is ridiculous.

Put more directly than I could come up with but this pretty much expresses my feelings. And I guess it’s the virtue signalling that really bugs me. As if somewhere an edict has been issued: “Attention Everyone - effective immediately, in our new, woke world, the general use of personal pronouns implying assumed gender will now be seen as purposeful act committed only by the woefully ignorant or the overtly hostile.”

I also agree with the poster upthread that if the airline (or any individual or organization) just went ahead and changed their script in a way they felt appropriate, nobody would notice and nobody would care. I have a hard time believing anybody cared before - regardless of how they self-identify. Did non-binary people actually sit on planes feeling unwelcome or specifically excluded? IDK. Does anybody really listen to those in-flight announcements at all?

 

[RamblingMad]

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, you aren’t changing mine

I don’t have to change your mind. However, not being inclusive is morally repulsive. And you can find yourself terminated from a job for discrimination. This the world we live in.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don’t have to change your mind. However, not being inclusive is morally repulsive. And you can find yourself terminated from a job for discrimination. This the world we live in.

I said it before and I’ll say it again- ladies and gentlemen INCLUDES everyone.
You not feeling specifically a man or woman does not mean that you actually aren’t either one.
So when you are in a group of them and addressed as a group you ARE included regardless of your feelings.

Now nobody here is talking about discrimination at your place of employment, it has nothing to do with the subject of the OP.

 

[skyblue17]

And if you are one of those who identify as one of those you are in a very very small minority so you suck it up. The term ladies and gentlemen is not said to offend anyone, it’s said to include the vast majority of people.
I personally don’t care how people are addressed but the idea of changing the way we communicate based on a very tiny portion of the populations feelings is ridiculous.

Would you use this mentality toward any other minority, though? Say, if a store is not accessible for wheelchairs, would you say that the owners should not have to make renovations because they would only be catering to a small minority, so they should suck it up and deal?

No one is saying to never use the word lady or gentleman again. Instead, they are recognizing that there are ways to address people that is more inclusive and doesn't remind those who aren't included that they are viewed as "other."

Language is meant to be adapted and has been for as long as its been used. Evolving our communication to adapt to considerations that might have been ignored before is not a bad thing.

 

[lovesmurfs]

I'm fine with "everyone" and am confused as to how this became a press release.

Now, I have issues (and I know it's personal) with being in a mixed group and being called "guys." I am NOT a guy.

Yes, I'm old and grouchy. Get off my lawn.

 

[sam_gordon]

Instead, they are recognizing that there are ways to address people that is more inclusive and doesn't remind those who aren't included that they are viewed as "other."

As an old fogie, if someone is not a "lady" OR a "gentleman", what are they?

 

[BlueStarryHat]

I debated whether or not to post in this thread, but I will go ahead and say I have both a trans and genderfluid friend. My trans friend uses he/his as his preferred pronoun, and my genderfluid friend currently uses those pronouns as well, but it changes-not on a whim, or to be "trendy," but because that's just who he is. I'm a firm believer in calling people what *they* want to be called, and for our society to be more inclusive. it doesn't hurt anyone or infringe on anyone's rights to say 'Everyone,' or something similar. I think it's a good thing that people who are genderfluid especially now have a voice and a presence...my friend certainly went through a lot of grief and confusion before realizing who he was as a person, and I celebrate his happiness. If he decided to feel more feminine, I would celebrate *her* happiness.

 

[declansdad]

Imagine getting upset about the changing of 3 words. If there weren't a news article on it, no one would even know or notice.

Imagine the people getting upset over the original 3 words.

I think if you get upset either way you are just looking to get upset about something.

 

[skyblue17]

As an old fogie, if someone is not a "lady" OR a "gentleman", what are they?

Genderfluid or non-binary. This could mean that they don't necessarily identify as either/or exclusively, or it might mean that what they identify with is not static (a friend of mine who identifies as genderfluid has days where they feel feminine, so present themselves as such, and others days where they might wear a jacket and tie to work).

A recent example of a high profile non-binary celebrity is Jonathan Van Ness, who often wears dresses or skirts but also maintains his facial hair. He wears whatever he likes, regardless of who it's "for."

 

[RamblingMad]

I said it before and I’ll say it again- ladies and gentlemen INCLUDES everyone.
You not feeling specifically a man or woman does not mean that you actually aren’t either one.
So when you are in a group of them and addressed as a group you ARE included regardless of your feelings.

Now nobody here is talking about discrimination at your place of employment, it has nothing to do with the subject of the OP.

If the business discriminates against people by not being inclusive, they can bring a suit against them. This is really about discrimination. And the business is trying to protect themselves.

 

[Hikergirl]

Bottom line is using “ladies and gentlemen” is not done to purposely exclude anyone.
If you are in the extremely small part of the population who doesn’t feel included when those terms are used to address a group of people, it is you who feels that way, it isn’t that the terms or the people using them aren’t being inclusive.

 

[sam_gordon]

Genderfluid or non-binary. This could mean that they don't necessarily identify as either/or exclusively, or it might mean that what they identify with is not static (a friend of mine who identifies as genderfluid has days where they feel feminine, so present themselves as such, and others days where they might wear a jacket and tie to work).

A recent example of a high profile non-binary celebrity is Jonathan Van Ness, who often wears dresses or skirts but also maintains his facial hair. He wears whatever he likes, regardless of who it's "for."

OK, fine. So on Monday, they identify as female, so they'd be in the group of "ladies". On Tuesday, they identify as male, so they'd be in the group of "gentlemen". BOTH groups are covered. How is that not inclusive?

 

[ronandannette]

If the business discriminates against people by not being inclusive, they can bring a suit against them. This is really about discrimination. And the business is trying to protect themselves.

A general greeting of "ladies and gentlemen" being heard by a person who identifies as both/either/neither in no way meets the standard of discrimination. Get over yourself.