Latest School Shooting

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think this is apples and oranges.
A pool and a bike have other uses besides killing things. That’s IS the purpose of guns.

Now I don’t know about the IS laws around pools and bikes but here there are a multitude of laws that surround owning a pool, and criminal convictions if you fail to meet them. Swimming lessons are a required part of the curriculum just like maths is.
Bikes:helmets are required by law.
So in both of your examples reasonable measures are being taken to reduce the risks involved.

I don't actually know if there are a lot of laws around just owning a pool. For homeowner's insurance yes there are acceptability guidelines..but criminal convictions? I don't honestly know that the U.S. has that sort of control on pools though admittedly I haven't gone into depth on that. I do know in my HOA you can only have an inground vs and above ground pool due to aesthetics. Swimming lessons required by law? Hmm I don't know that it's required in my area..pretty sure it's not.

As far as helmets for bikes go..that's also something that is different. It's not legally required to wear a helmet for a motorcycle in my state if you are over the age of 18. I believe the neighboring state however legally requires it though it's been several times up for state repeal of that law. For bicycles in my state you are legally not required to wear helmets at any age at the state level however at the city level there may be ordinances that may require you to do so. The neighboring state also does not legally require helmets at any age at the state level however at the city level there may be ordinances that may require you to do so.

Both features though just like guns will vary from state to state, from county to county, and from city to city. Again the way our government is set up is different than other countries.

 

[Domo]

I can drive and I am proficient in a number of firearms from the UMG to the P90. As far as driving goes, I had to pass a practical and theoretical test before I could drive solo. My car is engineered to preserve life - both passenger and pedestrian. If I abuse my rights as a driver, there are strict penalties. And I am being watched all the time, by the police, cameras and speed traps. There are laws surrounding how I drive and what is considered safe usage. And finally, the intended usage is to transport myself and possibly passengers from A to B with as little fuss as possible.

Buns however, have only one primary purpose - kill or grievously wound. They make the act of killing or disabling extremely easy. Some even come equipped with laser pointers, holographic sites and multiple shot magazines, so you can make multiple attempts to kill as frequently as you can pull a trigger. If a weapon is fully automatic, you can empty about 30 to 50 rounds in a general area with extreme speed. Finally, many modern day weapons go even further, with rounds designed to penetrate body armour and ricochet around the human body, perpetrating the maximum damage.

You can't compare cars to guns.

 

[mummabear]

I always love the mental gymnastics some play.
“No ones talking about taking your guns. Except for that gun, you don’t need that gun. It’s scary and it’s developed by the Devil. We’ll let you keep your other less leathal guns.
We’ll address those later after we get the scary ones.”

Is that the best argument you have, I don’t want to give any compromise because I’m scared you might ask for more later?

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Is that the best argument you have, I don’t want to give any compromise because I’m scared you might ask for more later?

If you look at history all we as gun owners have done is give a little, then a little more, then a little more. It’s not about being scared, it’s about the realization of what’s being asked for.

 

[monsterkitty]

If you look at history all we as gun owners have done is give a little, then a little more, then a little more. It’s not about being scared, it’s about the realization of what’s being asked for.

What have you been asked to give? Background checks? Waiting periods? Please explain.

 

[mummabear]

If you look at history all we as gun owners have done is give a little, then a little more, then a little more. It’s not about being scared, it’s about the realization of what’s being asked for.

What exactly have gun owners given up?

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

What have you been asked to give? Background checks? Waiting periods? Please explain.

Are their no calls for banning ARs?

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

What exactly have gun owners given up?

Why are suppressors regulated?

 

[Planogirl]

It's the slippery slope argument. I've mentioned it when I've talked about the declining state of certain themeparks. It's totally off topic here but it does happen in some cases.

However most activities have regulations. Look at driving. That activity is way more regulated than gun use IMO. I never understand why so many gun owners are against some changes.

 

[Planogirl]

Why are suppressors regulated?

Those are legal in most states aren't they?

 

[Planogirl]

Are their no calls for banning ARs?

It hasn't happened yet so it hasn't been given up. What exactly are they used for?

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Those are legal in most states aren't they?

Heavily regulated. Why? Aren’t mufflers on every other load piece of machinery.

It hasn't happened yet so it hasn't been given up. What exactly are they used for?

They were banned for a while.

 

[mnrose]

Heavily regulated. Why? Aren’t mufflers on every other load piece of machinery.


They were banned for a while.

And, rates of mass homicides dropped. But, apparently, that was an undesirable result because a gun owner had to give up (? what I'm not sure) in order for more people to live.

 

[UncleMike101]

I always love the mental gymnastics some play.
“No ones talking about taking your guns. Except for that gun, you don’t need that gun. It’s scary and it’s developed by the Devil. We’ll let you keep your other less leathal guns.
We’ll address those later after we get the scary ones.”

Exactly.....

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

And, rates of mass homicides dropped. But, apparently, that was an undesirable result because a gun owner had to give up (? what I'm not sure) in order for more people to live.

They weren’t a problem before it either

 

[UncleMike101]

And, rates of mass homicides dropped. But, apparently, that was an undesirable result because a gun owner had to give up (? what I'm not sure) in order for more people to live.

The numbers of firearms related deaths did not drop during the Clinton Gun Ban.
That's why it was allowed to expire.
Mass murders are no more or less important than any other form of murder.
ALL murders are abhorrent and banning an object, any object, will not stop, or even slow, the Human Race's predilection for rubbing out it's own kind for whatever reasons suits the murderers.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I think this is apples and oranges.
A pool and a bike have other uses besides killing things. That’s IS the purpose of guns.

Now I don’t know about the IS laws around pools and bikes but here there are a multitude of laws that surround owning a pool, and criminal convictions if you fail to meet them. Swimming lessons are a required part of the curriculum just like maths is.
Bikes:helmets are required by law.
So in both of your examples reasonable measures are being taken to reduce the risks involved.

A gun has plenty of uses besides killing things. While hunting does involve killing, it does provide FOOD. Taking that one out though, since it does include killing, there are still plenty of other purposes. As a vegetarian, I have no desire to ever use my guns for killing. I enjoy shooting at the range as a hobby, and I like having the means to protect myself and my family should the need ever arise. Many times in defensive scenarios, a gun does not even need to be fired to scare away someone who intends to do harm.

There are lots of measures in place to reduce risks with guns. Automatic weapons and many modifications are banned, there are background checks, age restrictions, gun free zones, harsher penalties for crimes committed with a gun than without. Numerous states have their own laws and regulations beyond that. There are criminal convictions of people break these laws.

I'm not sure about swimming pool laws, but swim lessons are not a requirement here and neither is wearing a bike helmet or motorcycle helmet.

 

[mummabear]

Why are suppressors regulated?

Why shouldn’t they be?

gun has plenty of uses besides killing things. While hunting does involve killing, it does provide FOOD. Taking that one out though, since it does include killing, there are still plenty of other purposes. As a vegetarian, I have no desire to ever use my guns for killing. I enjoy shooting at the range as a hobby, and I like having the means to protect myself and my family should the need ever arise. Many times in defensive scenarios, a gun does not even need to be fired to scare away someone who intends to do harm

I agree that they can be used for hunting and sport, but disagree that people would need automatic rifles, silencers or high capacity mags for these purposes. Nor would mandatory waiting periods or increased background checks, required training/licence unduly effect those that want guns for these purposes.
As far as self denfense, the risk is greater than the reward, you are significantly more likely to end up I hired or killed by it, then use it to protect yourself.

 

[mummabear]

There are lots of measures in place to reduce risks with guns. Automatic weapons and many modifications are banned, there are background checks, age restrictions, gun free zones, harsher penalties for crimes committed with a gun than without. Numerous states have their own laws and regulations beyond that. There are criminal convictions of people break these laws.

And in any other area where the current restrictions were not doing enough to solve the problems then more regulations are put in place.
Look at all the changes made to driving, to cars, licences and raiding requirements to make both passengers and pedestrians as safe as possible.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Why shouldn’t they be?



I agree that they can be used for hunting and sport, but disagree that people would need automatic rifles, silencers or high capacity mags for these purposes. Nor would mandatory waiting periods or increased background checks, required training/licence unduly effect those that want guns for these purposes.
As far as self denfense, the risk is greater than the reward, you are significantly more likely to end up I hired or killed by it, then use it to protect yourself.

Automatic rifles are illegal for civilians, so I'm not sure what your point was there. Suppressors are heavily regulated. High capacity magazines aren't really more of a threat than someone with several magazines. It really, really takes such a negligible amount of time to swap mags, and people van do just as much damage, so banning high capacity mags is pretty pointless. I never said that anyone needs any of these things, but we shouldn't ban things simply because they're not a necessity. Very little in life can actually be considered a need. It's all about looking at whether something will actually make a difference in reducing gun violence. I fail to see how mandatory waiting periods would do a dang thing to reduce gun violence. I can't recall a single case of someone purchasing a gun legally and IMMEDIATELY going out to commit mass murder. In regards to background checks, what specifically would you like to be added? If you're talking about things being reported to the NICS better, then I absolutely agree, but that's more of an issue of trying to figure out what's not being reported and enforcing reporting regulations already on the books than needing a new law. if you're talking about gunshow and private sale background checks, that's something to be discussed. I can't think of anything else than can or should really be done in regards to background checks though, so if you were thinking something else, I'm genuinely curious to know what it is. I am all for required weapons training.

In regards to your self defense remark, there are an estimated 500,000- several million defensive uses of guns every year, most of which don't even necessitate the firing of the gun. Sure, there's always risk when you own a gun, just like there is when you own numerous other things that can be dangerous. Right now, my kitchen knives and TV pose a far greater danger to my kids than my locked up, hidden guns. DH and I are military trained and practice regularly with our weapons, and have them safely secured, so I'm pretty comfortable with any potential risk associated with my gun ownership. I know not everyone is trained or responsible, but that should have no bearing on whether or not I can legally keep weapons in my home for whatever lawful purpose I so desire.