Looking for Advice....

[appleplie]

If your mother had kept her house, it would very likely be worth more now than when she sold it 19 years ago.

Boy did I mess up! She could have stayed in her own home for 19 years and I would have had a much bigger inheritance! What was I thinking?

 

[sunshinehighway]

Boy did I mess up! She could have stayed in her own home for 19 years and I would have had a much bigger inheritance! What was I thinking?

Idk, probably that this way you'll get something while she has it? Well, that and you wouldn't have to spend time helping her transition to living by herself.

 

[appleplie]

Idk, probably that this way you'll get something while she has it? Well, that and you wouldn't have to spend time helping her transition to living by herself.[/QUOTE

She would have transitioned eventually if I just left her there!

Downside is I would have had to raise my own children and clean my own house.

 

[Kaytie]

I just wanted to know what, if anything I owed her out of the house. Very simple-more than she invested? Less? None? If I didn't love her and care for her-this wouldn't be a question right?

Responding without reading further, so apologies if this is already mentioned.

Get the house appraised.
Get comps - appraisals or selling prices of similar houses in your area.
Pay her the difference.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Write it into the contract that mom comes with the house and leave her where she is. You get to move, she gets to stay in her pre-paid forever home -- problem solved.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Write it into the contract that mom comes with the house and leave her where she is. You get to move, she gets to stay in her pre-paid forever home -- problem solved.

Is the mom Hugh Hefner?

 

[ronandannette]

Downside is I would have had to raise my own children and clean my own house.

Write it into the contract that mom comes with the house and leave her where she is. You get to move, she gets to stay in her pre-paid forever home -- problem solved.

Oh, my sides...

 

[VandVsmama]

Write it into the contract that mom comes with the house and leave her where she is. You get to move, she gets to stay in her pre-paid forever home -- problem solved.

No home buyer in his or her right mind would ever buy a home with those sorts of conditions.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

No home buyer in his or her right mind would ever buy a home with those sorts of conditions.

Those are the key words.

 

[moon]

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that it's her house. I'm really trying to not have any opinions on this thread because it would be so wrapped up in my own emotion of how I feel about my own mother and how things are done without question in my family.


As for the updates-I think some posters do change their tune to make themselves look better. I also think that sometimes folks on these boards demand a high level of detail and minutia and/or people start going off on imagined scenarios. In these cases the OP coming back to clarify or add additional info is going to look like a changing story because "why didn't you give all this info up front?"

This has happened to me. I've asked what I thought was a narrow scoped question and all of a sudden connections were being made that made my eyes spin. It's a message board, par for the course, I guess. Some people get a raw deal and some people are shady

No, not just added details. There were clear contradictions. As mentioned before, in five posts she talks about "siblings" She also said the house had been sold and the profit went to the siblings. Then she said she had only one brother and he bought the house at a reduced price.

Also, on her first post she says DM had made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that the arrangement would be permanent, then she wrote that they all had agreed it would be permanent - and in fact, it was the OP and her DH who initially came up wit the idea. That's not "added information". She clearly contradicts herself and changes the story.

And DM not only paid for the addition to the property where she would live. She also paid for increased square footage in the OP's house. This is something that the OP and her DH wanted, and if nothing else, that improvement added more room and comfort all these years for OP and DH. Doesn't that count for anything?

 

[KBoopaloo]

Hypothetical-what if mom met someone and moved out on me? Or stayed down south and I was left with her utilities and such? I mean this was supposed to be forever right?

I am really not trying to be a jerk-I already know what I'm doing for mom. Just playing into to all those that think it's something more than it is.

Well from the tone of this post, it sounds like you would be upset with her if she had done either of these things, no? So there is your answer. She is not the one ending the "forever" arrangement, you are.

I still don't understand why you don't just speak to your mom about this. Like you said, this situation has not been healthy for either of you. Maybe she would love to live more independently at this point as well. But all this conversation behind her back is just unseemly. And while I think it would probably be a good idea to have a couple of ideas and suggestions for places where she could possibly move, I think my mom would be furious if I came at her with the news that I was moving, she had to move out of the house but I had selected another place for her to go live as if all the decisions were already made and she had no say at all.

Talk to a lawyer. Find out what you are legally obligated to pay her from her investment in the house. Then determine how much more you are willing to give her (you said you are willing to help with monthly expenses - come up with a number that you are comfortable with) and then give her that information and let HER make the decision about where she wants to move now with the resources she'll have available.

 

[appleplie]

No, not just added details. There were clear contradictions. As mentioned before, in five posts she talks about "siblings" She also said the house had been sold and the profit went to the siblings. Then she said she had only one brother and he bought the house at a reduced price.

Also, on her first post she says DM had made a lot of assumptions in her own mind that the arrangement would be permanent, then she wrote that they all had agreed it would be permanent - and in fact, it was the OP and her DH who initially came up wit the idea. That's not "added information". She clearly contradicts herself and changes the story.

And DM not only paid for the addition to the property where she would live. She also paid for increased square footage in the OP's house. This is something that the OP and her DH wanted, and if nothing else, that improvement added more room and comfort all these years for OP and DH. Doesn't that count for anything?

So tell me how the number of siblings I have or don't have would have changed your opinion about anything? I already explained why I did that.

Yup_i said my mother thought it was permanent. Never said I discussed with her that it was permanent-but I did expect to be in this house permanently. I also said we never sat down and discussed any terms or what ifs (divorce, job relocation, etc).

Did not ask for additional living space and never posted that I asked for additional living space. I said i"it provided additional living space' due to the type of construction required by our town. An unfinished second floor that my husband and I finished later.

But you can keep filling in the blanks with whatever fits for you.

 

[appleplie]

Well from the tone of this post, it sounds like you would be upset with her if she had done either of these things, no? So there is your answer. She is not the one ending the "forever" arrangement, you are.

I still don't understand why you don't just speak to your mom about this. Like you said, this situation has not been healthy for either of you. Maybe she would love to live more independently at this point as well. But all this conversation behind her back is just unseemly. And while I think it would probably be a good idea to have a couple of ideas and suggestions for places where she could possibly move, I think my mom would be furious if I came at her with the news that I was moving, she had to move out of the house but I had selected another place for her to go live as if all the decisions were already made and she had no say at all.

Talk to a lawyer. Find out what you are legally obligated to pay her from her investment in the house. Then determine how much more you are willing to give her (you said you are willing to help with monthly expenses - come up with a number that you are comfortable with) and then give her that information and let HER make the decision about where she wants to move now with the resources she'll have available.

I wouldn't be upset with her at all-just stating that even though she intended for it to be permanent-nobody truly knows what the future will hold. Would it have been fair of me to tell her that she could never leave if she wanted to? Her plans can change-but mine can't?

 

[appleplie]

I also think people have a really warped idea of how much they think my home will sell for over what was invested through the the years. In my area, you can buy new construction in a nicer neighborhood with a few more amenities for not much more than I can price my house. Believe me-there is not going to a huge windfall-but my mother will be just fine.

 

[moon]

So tell me how the number of siblings I have or don't have would have changed your opinion about anything? I already explained why I did that.

It's about changing the story and having people wondering what the truth is.

Yup_i said my mother thought it was permanent. Never said I discussed with her that it was permanent-but I did expect to be in this house permanently. I also said we never sat down and discussed any terms or what ifs (divorce, job relocation, etc).

This is so strange. An addition is build into the property, mo one discusses it; yet both you and DM think it was permanent. Would your mother have invested on this addition thinking it was temporary? Would you have accepted her spending all that money if it was temporary? I think not. at least it wouldn't have been right. Your DM thought her investment was safe regardless of circumstances (relocation, divorce), because she trusted you. It was a mistake that there was nothing on paper regarding what would happen to her investment if your circumstances changed. Obviously she didn't think there was any need for that.

Did not ask for additional living space and never posted that I asked for additional living space. I said i"it provided additional living space' due to the type of construction required by our town. An unfinished second floor that my husband and I finished later..

I never said you asked for it. But you wouldn't have accepted if you didn't want it. A second floor? Nice.

 

[appleplie]

It's about changing the story and having people wondering what the truth is.



This is so strange. An addition is build into the property, mo one discusses it; yet both you and DM think it was permanent. Would your mother have invested on this addition thinking it was temporary? Would you have accepted her spending all that money if it was temporary? I think not. at least it wouldn't have been right. Your DM thought her investment was safe regardless of circumstances (relocation, divorce), because she trusted you. It was a mistake that there was nothing on paper regarding what would happen to her investment if your circumstances changed. Obviously she didn't think there was any need for that.


I never said you asked for it. But you wouldn't have accepted if you didn't want it. A second floor? Nice.

[/QUOTE]

You know-I was going to let all of this go the other day. I cried for 3 days because I was heartsick that anyone would think I would treat my mother so poorly and only be out for personal financial gain, but then I got mad. How dare anyone insinuate so much. You don't know me from Adam and you have no idea what kind of person I am. You only know that you heard q few stories about people scamming their elderly parents and so that it was this has to be.

Maybe I didn't phrase everything exactly as I should have or used the proper terminology-but that doesn't make it a lie. True story, I sat in a meeting today and listened to people have to restate or change phrasing to clarify what they meant to say. I just seemed to zone in on it today-and it never crossed anyone's mind that the person speaking was lying. Believe me, I have made more than my share of mistakes from day one-but well intended mistakes are much different than just being a liar and horrible person. My experiences may have led me to do something different than yours have, but that makes you no better than me.

It would have been so much easier to walk away if I really was a bad person-I probably would have just figured you were on to and time to slither off.

 

[moon]

You know-I was going to let all of this go the other day. I cried for 3 days because I was heartsick that anyone would think I would treat my mother so poorly and only be out for personal financial gain, but then I got mad. How dare anyone insinuate so much. You don't know me from Adam and you have no idea what kind of person I am. You only know that you heard q few stories about people scamming their elderly parents and so that it was this has to be.

Maybe I didn't phrase everything exactly as I should have or used the proper terminology-but that doesn't make it a lie. True story, I sat in a meeting today and listened to people have to restate or change phrasing to clarify what they meant to say. I just seemed to zone in on it today-and it never crossed anyone's mind that the person speaking was lying. Believe me, I have made more than my share of mistakes from day one-but well intended mistakes are much different than just being a liar and horrible person. My experiences may have led me to do something different than yours have, but that makes you no better than me.

It would have been so much easier to walk away if I really was a bad person-I probably would have just figured you were on to and time to slither off.

To tell you the truth, I have no idea why you are keeping this thread going. Crying for three days over what posters on the Dis say? really? you are right, we don't know you, we just form opinions on what you post. Why are you investing so much time and energy on this? Again, we don't know you. You even created an alternate user name for this thread. None of us have any idea who you are, so why are you this upset?

If a thread affected me the way this is affecting you, I'd just leave. I'd have stopped posting a long time ago. As long as you keep posting the thread will go on, and on...if you want it to die, just don't contribute to it anymore.

 

[LisaR]

I really not planned on getting into this great of detail on the intimate details of my family dynamics, but so many of you seem to think that my siblings and I are all a bunch of evil and no good. My mother has always had trouble with simple tasks like I said in my previous posts. Be it setting an alarm clock, changing a light bulb, stupid mundane tasks that I can't even think of right now. My father took care of it all. He also did the grocery shopping and drove her to work everyday. This wasn't something that anyone ever approached her about, but we knew that for whatever reason-she had trouble with these kinds of things. I don't know if there is a term for it or a diagnosis-but again, it just is. When I mention my mother being a manipulator-this isn't meant to classify her as evil. This is a defense mechanism as well. If she doesn't know how to do a simple task-she doesn't tell you she doesn't know how to do it. She has mastered a way to work around it so you don't catch on that she doesn't know how to do something. If you're not around her enough-you probably wouldn't even know that you were being manipulated. One of her workarounds when it comes to setting her alarm clock if she has an early appointment is to ask you to check on her if you don't hear her up in the morning. Just silly little things like that. If you push the issue and say why don't you set your alarm clock? She will immediately get defensive and raise her voice, etc. so that you will just do as she asked.

When my father died-we we're all in a panic. They didn't have senior communities 19 years ago like they do now. Besides-she wasn't a senior. She knew she couldn't live on her own even though she didn't come right out and say it-and we knew it as well. She couldn't set her clock to get up in the morning, she couldn't drive her self to work, etc. When I mentioned the possibility of her moving in with me-she jumped on it and never considered any other options. For a time, it looked like it might not happen due to zoning laws and such. She was even more panicked. I realize this is not normal for most 54 year-olds and certainly not for myself. Nobody was thinking clearly and certainly nobody was looking to swindle my mother out of anything. We were young, in mourning and panicked. This seemed like the best idea at the time. Obviously it was not. When I say she thought it was permanent-that's because nobody discussed terms, alternate plans, etc. What if my husband and I got divorced? What if one of us passed away? What if job situations changed, etc. Nothing was discussed. She was just thrilled to have her immediate problem solved. When I say I thought it was permanent-I meant that I thought this was our forever home. Just like when people get married-they assume it's forever-sometimes it's not.

The situation was not good from the start. As I also mentioned previously. But, I couldn't afford to buy her out and I wasn't going to put her out. So we dealt with it. I wonder at times if she even thinks she should have done something different but felt the same way I did-that everything was already done. I never moved her in to be a babysitter-she worked herself. I'm not looking to bash her and say she never did a thing for me-but she was not my house cleaner, baby sitter, cook or whatever.

Once she retired, she started to winter in the South. She was still left with a nice nest egg and she used her savings to do this. She does not have enough income coming in to replenish the savings. She has been doing this for about 13 years now. I do not know what she has left.

When she winters in the south, she stays in a retirement community. She loves it and looks forward to this time every year. She participates in activities, hangs out at the pool, has a card night, etc. She cannot afford to live there year-round. I thought that she would be happier in something like that here, but would never initiate the move on her own due to financial concerns.

So going forward-I have three choices: We can all continue to live here with the changes to the neighborhood; I can move and bring her with me to a home that is secluded, harder for her to get out and about from and doesn't provide the amount of living space that she has now; or I can move and she can move into the retirement community

She will not be abandoned and dropped off like trash at the retirement community. Really people, I've said multiple times that I will help her and see to it that all of her needs are met. She is and will always be a part of my family-but I don't think that means she has to physically live with me.

I made it to this point and finally caved and had to reply before I finished reading. Maybe these questions have been answered later.

1. How does someone who is completely, 100% dependent on her husband and then your family hold down a job? Her husband's sudden death turned an already anxious, dependent person into a basket case for awhile and yet through it all, she continued to work??

2. How does this same woman who can't fend for herself, can't be alone, can't set a clock, can't seem to do anything, manage to winter out of state every year?? 55+ communities do NOT do every single solitary thing for you unless you are living in the nursing care part of the facility. Does she fly alone? She's never had a plane delayed or any trouble at the airport?

The picture you paint and the story you are telling don't add up. You made a mistake 19 years ago and you're tired of it. Understandable. But during those 19 years you have treated your mother, in your words, "like a queen." She has become even more reliant on you. She hasn't saved for the future because you haven't ever told her that her living situation might change.

Someone way back compared it to kicking your 18 y/o out on their birthday. While I don't think that's ideal, at least we raise our kids for 18 years preparing them for living on their own. Most of us make it clear that while we love them, we don't want them living with us forever and they are expected to have a plan by a certain age. You did the exact opposite with your mother!

Are you obligated to live with her forever? Of course not, but you talk about the guilt you have had for 19 years and I just can't imagine the guilt you will have if you do what you are purposing.

I sincerely hope you come up with a situation that makes everyone happy and well cared for.

 

[LisaR]

I know people who will be helpless when someone is around to do it for them but manage to take care of things themselves if they have to. It's just being manipulative.

Absolutely! But why hasn't the OP'er picked up on that in 19 years?? How would you treat a 10 y/o who refuses to clear the table? Do it for them? For 19 years, the OP'er enabled her mom. Clearly she could do things (work, winter in another state). But now what? Is 74 really the age to teach her a lesson especially when she is lacking funds, exhibiting signs of depression (common for her age), and really hasn't been clued in on this plan?

 

[appleplie]

I made it to this point and finally caved and had to reply before I finished reading. Maybe these questions have been answered later.

1. How does someone who is completely, 100% dependent on her husband and then your family hold down a job? Her husband's sudden death turned an already anxious, dependent person into a basket case for awhile and yet through it all, she continued to work??

2. How does this same woman who can't fend for herself, can't be alone, can't set a clock, can't seem to do anything, manage to winter out of state every year?? 55+ communities do NOT do every single solitary thing for you unless you are living in the nursing care part of the facility. Does she fly alone? She's never had a plane delayed or any trouble at the airport?

The picture you paint and the story you are telling don't add up. You made a mistake 19 years ago and you're tired of it. Understandable. But during those 19 years you have treated your mother, in your words, "like a queen." She has become even more reliant on you. She hasn't saved for the future because you haven't ever told her that her living situation might change.

Someone way back compared it to kicking your 18 y/o out on their birthday. While I don't think that's ideal, at least we raise our kids for 18 years preparing them for living on their own. Most of us make it clear that while we love them, we don't want them living with us forever and they are expected to have a plan by a certain age. You did the exact opposite with your mother!

Are you obligated to live with her forever? Of course not, but you talk about the guilt you have had for 19 years and I just can't imagine the guilt you will have if you do what you are purposing.

I sincerely hope you come up with a situation that makes everyone happy and well cared for.

Well then no-you didn't read through. Do you believe that a very confident, independent 54 year-old woman would have sold her home, given up her independence and moved in with me to cook, clean and take care of my children just because I suggested it? Is that more believable to you?

Never called her stupid-She can cook, she was perfectly capable of working-just couldn't drive herself to work. Do you know any women who got their licenses later in life that don't like to drive on highways? She can't set an alarm click-you know what? I don't know how to use the DVD player, but I Am still capable of gainful employment.

She had never travelled without my dad before- never travelled again until 6 or 7 years after his death. Went south for a month with a girlfriend. Loved it and has been going back ever since. They don't do everything for you in a 55+ community, but they do have a maintainance service. Plus, she does have friends there. She's done it about 13 times now. She's much more confident than she was 19 years ago.

But you go ahead and set it up the way you think it is right-because you know all about me. It's probably way more interesting.