MK Bus wheelchair/ECV at closing

[Mirabell Rose]

Disney has two spots for wheelchairs or scooters. That always means if there are more waiting, they won't get on that bus no matter how many walkers can be loaded that got there after them. There really isn't a good way to make sure everyone is able to get onto a bus in order of arrival. The buses simply can't be designed to accomodate a large number of wheelchairs and so those folks may need to wait a bit. As for those reserved seats, you never know if that healthy looking young man has a hidden disability. That's why drivers ask but won't demand someone vacate one of those seats. Let's not forget that the ADA requires reasonable accommodations, not the accommodation of your choice or 100% equal access.

Wheelchair spots are for wheelchairs. It doesn’t say we would like you to move, it says you must. Other spots can accommodate those that need a seat. The ‘invisible’ disability needs to ask if they are asked to relocate or the seats are full, for a seat to sit in. They do not need to reveal what their disability is, but they must request. Actually if possible, like on the monorail or skyliner, you must have full accommodation. That is 100%. There are exceptions allowed when that is not possible or older systems, thus the bus being able to leave the 3rd chair. BTW, the new busses have 3 chair slots, which is most of the front of the bus. Rode in one today.

 

[piccolopat]

Wheelchair spots are for wheelchairs. It doesn’t say we would like you to move, it says you must. Other spots can accommodate those that need a seat. The ‘invisible’ disability needs to ask if they are asked to relocate or the seats are full, for a seat to sit in. They do not need to reveal what their disability is, but they must request. Actually if possible, like on the monorail or skyliner, you must have full accommodation. That is 100%. There are exceptions allowed when that is not possible or older systems, thus the bus being able to leave the 3rd chair. BTW, the new busses have 3 chair slots, which is most of the front of the bus. Rode in one today.

I was referring to the reserved seats usually up front, not the spaces used by wheelchairs. Those of course go to wheelchairs first.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

I was referring to the reserved seats usually up front, not the spaces used by wheelchairs. Those of course go yo wheelchairs first.

Agreed. Sorry I mistook that point.

 

[starlite_]

I’m sorry it bothers you that you’ve only seen the wheelchairs loading before you and think, damn they always get the advantage.

Actually I haven't experienced this at all, because I don't use the buses at WDW. I am a DLR girl, and even there I don't use the buses. But I am an advocate for accessibility on media and websites (I'm a web developer). I've gotten in trouble for it before too, so I don't appreciate you assuming things about me.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Not true. And you have to move.

Wrong. Unless you know something that the US Department of Transportation doesn’t know.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/if-nond... the operator asks,people to vacate the seats.

If a nondisabled person is sitting in one of the “priority” seats in the front of a bus, does that person have to move so that a person with a disability can sit there?​

Under Department of Transportation (DOT) Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) regulations at 49 C.F.R. Section 37.167(j) bus operators are required to ask the person without a disability to move to another seat. If, after the operator asks, the person refuses to move, the regulations do not require the operator to compel this person to move. However, a transit operator can decide to adopt a policy requiring people to vacate the seats.


Should people move? Yes. Do they have to under federal law? No.

 

[OurBigTrip]

We had to wait in the regular queue at Epcot in September. Really did not see the big deal. When we got to the final turn, we went through the gate for the wheelchair loading area and got on the next bus. People behind us were the first party in line for the next bus so we would have been about the same spot. There were other wheelchair/ECV parties in the regular queue and it worked out just fine.

Thanks for the explanation!

I’ve been trying to figure out what the big deal is. I mean, if a bus holds 70 people (totally made up number on my part) and I’m in a wheelchair and I’m the 71st person in line, why would I expect to go ahead of everyone else?

Obviously as wheelchairs get closer to the front and to the point where they’ll be able to get on the next bus, then move them to wheelchair loading area and let them on first. But I don’t get why they would otherwise go ahead of everyone else.

 

[piccolopat]

I also think that walkers aren't upset when wheelchairs are loaded first. They do get upset when walkers accompanying a wheelchair user get on before earlier walkers and then take the limited seating, especially when those parties are large. A caretaker, spouse or minor children excepted. The rest should have to wait in line as long as they get on the same bus so earlier walkers have first shot at seats.

 

[DisneyOma]

Wheelchair spots are for wheelchairs. It doesn’t say we would like you to move, it says you must. Other spots can accommodate those that need a seat. The ‘invisible’ disability needs to ask if they are asked to relocate or the seats are full, for a seat to sit in. They do not need to reveal what their disability is, but they must request. Actually if possible, like on the monorail or skyliner, you must have full accommodation. That is 100%. There are exceptions allowed when that is not possible or older systems, thus the bus being able to leave the 3rd chair. BTW, the new busses have 3 chair slots, which is most of the front of the bus. Rode in one today.

If wheelchair spots are only for wheelchairs, why do they have the seats there?

 

[piccolopat]

If wheelchair spots are only for wheelchairs, why do they have the seats there?

If no wheelchairs are on the bus those seats can then be used by others.

 

[FastPasser.]

and I’m in a wheelchair and I’m the 71st person in line, why would I expect to go ahead of everyone else?

That’s a valid point but from Disney’s prospective it’s a safety concern. If a bus is nearly full, it’s a challenge loading a scooter, many times being driven by someone who does not use a scooter regularly. It’s much safer and easier if the pathway on the bus is clear of passengers.

The safety concern does not apply to non-motorized wheelchairs.

 

[OurBigTrip]

That’s a valid point but from Disney’s prospective it’s a safety concern. If a bus is nearly full, it’s a challenge loading a scooter, many times being driven by someone who does not use a scooter regularly. It’s much safer and easier if the pathway on the bus is clear of passengers.

The safety concern does not apply to non-motorized wheelchairs.

Agree, but that’s not what I noted in my example. As I said, if the wheelchair or scooter is 71st in line, then move them (and any other scooter/wheelchair ) that will fit in the next bus to the wheelchair load area and load them first.

 

[lanejudy]

It is federally enforceable.

How? That is a common misconception of the "rules" attributed to ADA. According to the Federal Transit Administration of the US Dept of Transportation, if the seat is already occupied then a bus driver only needs to ask the other passenger(s) to move, but they cannot require it.

I'm very sorry you had a challenging evening at MK. I believe you are relatively new to using a mobility device. Many of us on the disABILITIES Forum and this thread are familiar with that feeling. It's frustrating and learning a "new normal" adds to the exhaustion brought on from time in the parks.

WDW standard procedure would load the wheelchair/ECV first. Your own statements in this thread indicate you were pulled out partway through the queue, others had to exit the bus so you could load, and after they finally loaded you and those displaced passengers, then only about a half-dozen other passengers were loaded -- which means that bus was near-full and you belonged on the next bus. You would have been first on the next bus, without displacing anybody. I believe WDW acquiesced to your (or your DH's) demands to be loaded on that bus. It is not standard procedure nor is it law. Your own posts suggest that you advocate for people to give seats to young kids, elderly, disabled or pregnant women. How do you know that your actions didn't cause someone in one of those groups or with a disability to wait for the next bus even though they were at the stop prior to you. The bus drivers will not play musical chairs to find someone a seat; I am well aware of that because we have often waited for the next bus to be sure of having a seat. Sometimes people get blinders on and only see their own situation instead of the larger picture.

 

[Evita_W]

Wrong. Unless you know something that the US Department of Transportation doesn’t know.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/if-nondisabled-person-sitting-one-“priority”-seats-front-bus-does-person-have-move-so-person#:~:text=If, after the operator asks,people to vacate the seats.

If a nondisabled person is sitting in one of the “priority” seats in the front of a bus, does that person have to move so that a person with a disability can sit there?​

Under Department of Transportation (DOT) Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) regulations at 49 C.F.R. Section 37.167(j) bus operators are required to ask the person without a disability to move to another seat. If, after the operator asks, the person refuses to move, the regulations do not require the operator to compel this person to move. However, a transit operator can decide to adopt a policy requiring people to vacate the seats.


Should people move? Yes. Do they have to under federal law? No.

But also check state law, I don't know about Florida, but in California if they refuse to do so, that bus must be considered full and can't board any other passengers until those seats are freed up. How well that is enforced is up for debate, but that is the rule.

 

[DisneyOma]

If no wheelchairs are on the bus those seats can then be used by others.

So they are not for wheelchairs only - which is what the PP stated they were. I understand the need to get mobility devices on before the bus gets too full. Should guests with mobility devices always get on before anyone else, even if they arrive after a full busload of guests is in the queue? That's the sticking point, IMO.

 

[piccolopat]

So they are not for wheelchairs only - which is what the PP stated they were. I understand the need to get mobility devices on before the bus gets too full. Should guests with mobility devices always get on before anyone else, even if they arrive after a full busload of guests is in the queue? That's the sticking point, IMO.

Since there are very limited spots for mobility devices, it might be necessary. What I think is wrong is when those people have a large entourage and all of them are cutting ahead of others, taking seats that should have been for others ahead of them. Perhaps have the mobility devices wait in the normal queue and when they are within the numbers for a bus, load them first and their party gets on with the rest of the queue. If no mobility devices are within the number for a bus, pull the next two out of order for that bus and allow one adult and their minor kids to accompany them. The rest of their party can wait for the next bus in order of the queue.

 

[redberyl]

When we went we stayed at all stars, so obviously sharing buses and we were not yhe first stop. Most of the time there wasn't any room for my daughters wheelchair and we had to wait for another bus or even 2 more busses. They never once offerred to call another bus for us , I didn't know that was an option, and we ended up waiting 20 to 40 minutes for the next busses most times. Every trip since I've just rented a van because the busses were such a hassle. I see people on here so worried about how unfair it is people in wheelchairs might get to skip the line, but that 100% was not our experience

 

[jo-jo]

When we went we stayed at all stars, so obviously sharing buses and we were not yhe first stop. Most of the time there wasn't any room for my daughters wheelchair and we had to wait for another bus or even 2 more busses. They never once offerred to call another bus for us , I didn't know that was an option, and we ended up waiting 20 to 40 minutes for the next busses most times. Every trip since I've just rented a van because the busses were such a hassle. I see people on here so worried about how unfair it is people in wheelchairs might get to skip the line, but that 100% was not our experience

We had that once at beach club. Going to a park. bus already had scooters on. One bus going to different park, ask where we were going. He left and a couple buses went by. That bus driver was back his return trip, saw us still waiting and called someone.

 

[Evita_W]

Since there are very limited spots for mobility devices, it might be necessary. What I think is wrong is when those people have a large entourage and all of them are cutting ahead of others, taking seats that should have been for others ahead of them. Perhaps have the mobility devices wait in the normal queue and when they are within the numbers for a bus, load them first and their party gets on with the rest of the queue. If no mobility devices are within the number for a bus, pull the next two out of order for that bus and allow one adult and their minor kids to accompany them. The rest of their party can wait for the next bus in order of the queue.

Official policy is supposed to limit the number of accompanying guests with a wheelchair, but it is rarely enforced.

 

[HopperFan]

When we went we stayed at all stars, so obviously sharing buses and we were not yhe first stop. Most of the time there wasn't any room for my daughters wheelchair and we had to wait for another bus or even 2 more busses. They never once offerred to call another bus for us , I didn't know that was an option, and we ended up waiting 20 to 40 minutes for the next busses most times. Every trip since I've just rented a van because the busses were such a hassle. I see people on here so worried about how unfair it is people in wheelchairs might get to skip the line, but that 100% was not our experience

I've been staying at All Stars for years, last time last July and staying again in a few weeks. I don't recall any time we shared with the other resorts other than going to Disney Springs, which makes sense. I've never seen any chairs left behind.

Not saying that didn't happen to you but I don't think that is common and unless it is really a slow quiet time I don't think they share buses other than Disney Springs and WaterParks.

 

[MinnieMSue]

I've been staying at All Stars for years, last time last July and staying again in a few weeks. I don't recall any time we shared with the other resorts other than going to Disney Springs, which makes sense. I've never seen any chairs left behind.

Not saying that didn't happen to you but I don't think that is common and unless it is really a slow quiet time I don't think they share buses other than Disney Springs and WaterParks.

We shared during mid day at all stars. Luckily there was ability to load our wheelchair from Music.