Number of People Walking

[DougEMG]

Yes, I think it’s the same. That doesn’t mean I’m dissing the time honored strategy of booking at 11 and switching at 7. It means that I don’t believe walking is any different.

It’s certainly not some great moral crime; “abuse”. It not an abuse of the system. It IS the system.

People’s intentions are irrelevant; room availability is the crux of the issue.

No matter the intent, taking a room out of circulation is . . . taking a room out of circulation.

I disagree, walking and switching resorts are not the same thing. While the end effect may look the same for both switching rooms and walking (i.e. a room is out of circulation), one is clearly within the rules while the other is taking advantage of a loophole to get around the 11 month booking window. Disney could come up with a way to limit or eliminate walking if they wanted to, but they are never going to stop people from booking at 11 months at their home resorts and then switching at 7 months, that is a key selling feature of the program.

As walking is allowed in the reservation system, I'm not going to get annoyed with anyone that uses it. It is Disney's responsibility to limit walking.

The whole point of discuss boards is to exchange knowledge. Walking isn't a secret, people here aren't trying to hoard that knowledge so only they can walk. They are telling everyone how to walk.

 

[4evryoung]

Maybe it is Hard to do a Good Refurbishment.

And maybe- it's hard to come up with a justification that is believable.

 

[crvetter]

Or not ???

Mainly wanted to point out the context, rather than present the issue as not having the answer to an extent. If a hard goods refurb doesn’t happen there then Disney would be largely in trouble since it’s the story they told to members. This is something that will be easily verified in a year does a room have new furnishings or not.

 

[4evryoung]

Disney could come up with a way to limit or eliminate walking if they wanted to,

Unless they did not wanted to because they were making the most use of the "walking" strategy.

 

[crvetter]

With the way Disney operates they don’t need to walk a reservation. It’s probably not removed because a viable way to prove that is what someone is doing on a systematic (no human involved) scale is too combursome.

 

[Mikamarii]

They could eliminate walking by eliminating the 11 month window. Obviously the 11mth window means nothing if one could book any dates one wishes and drop and add as one sees fit.

 

[crvetter]

They could eliminate walking by eliminating the 11 month window. Obviously the 11mth window means nothing if one could book any dates one wishes and drop and add as one sees fit.

I mean they always have to guarantee 1 month home resort advantage. Personally I feel this is something wouldn’t be easily changed in the POS. While Disney can change them with will Im guessing the regulators that approve their changes might not allow it. Because they make people who paid a premium for a particular resort lose money because now 90 points are as advantageous as 170 points for grand Floridian.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

Disney could come up with a way to limit or eliminate walking if they wanted to

I doubt they ever will. Why? Because walking doesn't cost DVC money. Fixing the "problem" wouldn't make DVC money or save DVC money either. So something that doesn't cost DVC money, make DVC money, or really affect it in any way just won't ever be a priority. Currently I have 4 tickets I want to upgrade to AP. But I can't because Disney I.T. doesn't allow it unless I'm at WDW. If they won't upgrade their technology to allow me to give them another $1,000 I think walking is pretty far down on their to-do list.

I think one of two things needs to happen for DVC to address walking.

1) It becomes more widespread across the whole system...not just a small subset of rooms during a small percentage of the year. Unless they go nuts the next few years with the point allocations I don't see that happening.

2) At some point someone in the revolving door that is DVC management is aware of walking and doesn't like it....so they eliminate it.

I put the likelihood of either of those <10%. But I'm wrong >90% of the time so who knows

 

[DebbieB]

I will admit, I recently walked 2 reservations. A boardwalk view studio for the first week of December and a VGC 1 bedroom for August at 7 months. You have the choice of being "honorable" and not doing it and not getting your room, or join the crowd and have a better chance of getting what you want. I've been a member for almost 20 years and am not going to sit back and end up empty handed while others get it by "using the system". All I ask for is a level playing field and that’s the way the field is now.

 

[ParkHoppers]

What used to take a week to walk is now a month or two for certain rooms. People are walking rooms people said they don’t need to walk. People are not just walking standard anymore. People are walking at 7 month window. You all don’t see a worrisome pattern forming here. The game is quickly so how long is one willing to walk. One month,two...six? Soon every reservation some make will be walked. I mean why not. “ I wonder how early people will start walking this year” you say to yourself. “Better start earlier than last time just in case”. And so on.... Those who don’t see it as a problem may very well think different in the near future when they have to walk for 2-3 months for a room they want. That may become standard procedure for many. What a pain in the butt. Things look to be getting worse and picking up speed. This thing that was created is growing into something most probably won’t like at some point. To glorify or promote walking is a bad move IMO. Those who are trying to protect walking might want to get Dis to treat this like other loopholes that are not to be discussed here. Not sure how much walking is discussed other places but if people keep getting the info on walking it’s not going to be good for members. Even those walking.When info like this gets online and is publicized it never ends well. I seen this story before.

 

[Bearval]

What used to take a week to walk is now a month or two for certain rooms. People are walking rooms people said they don’t need to walk. People are not just walking standard anymore. People are walking at 7 month window. You all don’t see a worrisome pattern forming here. The game is quickly so how long is one willing to walk. One month,two...six? Soon every reservation some make will be walked. I mean why not. “ I wonder how early people will start walking this year” you say to yourself. “Better start earlier than last time just in case”. And so on.... Those who don’t see it as a problem may very well think different in the near future when they have to walk for 2-3 months for a room they want. That may become standard procedure for many. What a pain in the butt. Things look to be getting worse and picking up speed. This thing that was created is growing into something most probably won’t like at some point. To glorify or promote walking is a bad move IMO. Those who are trying to protect walking might want to get Dis to treat this like other loopholes that are not to be discussed here. Not sure how much walking is discussed other places but if people keep getting the info on walking it’s not going to be good for members. Even those walking.When info like this gets online and is publicized it never ends well. I seen this story before.

I feel DVC should do something to ban walking since it is just a loop hole to get around the 11 month window. But then you have the defenders of this practice that are indirectly telling you if you cannot beat them join them. Guess when Mar 1st arrives I have will start walking my room for December 2020.

 

[twinklebug]

I feel DVC should do something to ban walking since it is just a loop hole to get around the 11 month window. But then you have the defenders of this practice that are indirectly telling you if you cannot beat them join them. Guess when Mar 1st arrives I have will start walking my room for December 2020.

It's hard to tell with just a few words written on a screen, but I do hope you're joking. Others will see this post and think "I'd better start walking my reservation at 11 months out too.", negating any positive you might have hoped your first few words could have on the situation. In some way, we're all guilty of it just through the existence of this thread and our participation on it.

Now, back to what Disney CAN do to stop walkers, if they choose to...

The only way I can see Disney stopping walking is if they put a limit on the number of changes we can make to a single reservation number. I'm not sure what is reasonable, maybe 5 changes to one reservation number before special approval is needed through calling MS?

 

[JETSDAD]

It's hard to tell with just a few words written on a screen, but I do hope you're joking. Others will see this post and think "I'd better start walking my reservation at 11 months out too.", negating any positive you might have hoped your first few words could have on the situation. In some way, we're all guilty of it just through the existence of this thread and our participation on it.

Now, back to what Disney CAN do to stop walkers, if they choose to...

The only way I can see Disney stopping walking is if they put a limit on the number of changes we can make to a single reservation number. I'm not sure what is reasonable, maybe 5 changes to one reservation number before special approval is needed through calling MS?

The problem is that this again helps larger point owners and hurts small ones. Right now at least every owner is on a level playing field for chances to book rooms (whether or not you like walking).

 

[twinklebug]

The problem is that this again helps larger point owners and hurts small ones. Right now at least every owner is on a level playing field for chances to book rooms (whether or not you like walking).

I'm missing what you're saying.

What I'm saying is if MS clamps down and requires everyone wanting to alter their reservation more than 5 times to call for approval and assistance, then they can make the call if someone is abusing the system or not. Little guys like most of us would not be denied a 6th change since it's obvious through our history we're not renting our points out professionally. The resellers with thousands of points would hopefully be told "no" to continuing their walk.

 

[crvetter]

I'm missing what you're saying.

What I'm saying is if MS clamps down and requires everyone wanting to alter their reservation more than 5 times to call for approval and assistance, then they can make the call if someone is abusing the system or not. Little guys like most of us would not be denied a 6th change since it's obvious through our history we're not renting our points out professionally. The resellers with thousands of points would hopefully be told "no" to continuing their walk.

I don't think Disney can differentiate those that rent their points out from those that don't. It is something that is explicitly allowed in the POS and they would have to make changes to disallow it. So if they start restricting modifications based on this fact they are differentiating club members which wouldn't be allowed. As of right now (new 1/19/19 Multi-Site POS) it is limited to 4,000 points for a single resort and 8,000 across all resorts, unless Disney gives you special permission to go above that part. The special permission part was the most recent change to its restrictions on the number of points owned.

 

[gillep]

I'm missing what you're saying.

What I'm saying is if MS clamps down and requires everyone wanting to alter their reservation more than 5 times to call for approval and assistance, then they can make the call if someone is abusing the system or not. Little guys like most of us would not be denied a 6th change since it's obvious through our history we're not renting our points out professionally. The resellers with thousands of points would hopefully be told "no" to continuing their walk.

Again, any change that restricts the number of times one can modify a reservation only hurts small point owners or those that can only walk short reservations for whatever reason. Someone with enough points to walk a 7 night reservation would still be able to walk a reservation a full month with your restriction, how is that stopping walking? All you are doing is taking something that the entire membership can use and limiting it to those with enough points to walk longer reservations, to me that is much worse than the current system.

I am not sure how re-sellers and renting got pulled in to this, what evidence is there that this is a re-seller or renting problem? As far as I have seen, those who have admitted to walking, myself included, use their reservations.

People have been saying that walking is getting worse, and more people are doing it, and DVC is going to stop it for the 10 years I have been stalking the DIS. I think that people don't like certain things like renting, re-sellers, and walking and they default to blaming those groups for all of DVCs ills, even when they don't even understand the mechanics of something like walking a reservation.

 

[Bearval]

Again, any change that restricts the number of times one can modify a reservation only hurts small point owners or those that can only walk short reservations for whatever reason. Someone with enough points to walk a 7 night reservation would still be able to walk a reservation a full month with your restriction, how is that stopping walking? All you are doing is taking something that the entire membership can use and limiting it to those with enough points to walk longer reservations, to me that is much worse than the current system.

I am not sure how re-sellers and renting got pulled in to this, what evidence is there that this is a re-seller or renting problem? As far as I have seen, those who have admitted to walking, myself included, use their reservations.

People have been saying that walking is getting worse, and more people are doing it, and DVC is going to stop it for the 10 years I have been stalking the DIS. I think that people don't like certain things like renting, re-sellers, and walking and they default to blaming those groups for all of DVCs ills, even when they don't even understand the mechanics of something like walking a reservation.

They can easily stop walking. All they have to do require that you can only,modify a reservation if the date after you last day booked is past the 11 month window. As long as the day,after,your reservation is past that then you can modify all you want.Other that that you need to cancel and rebook. Or they could require that the reservation cannot advance more than a set number of days such as 6 or 7 unless you are extending a vacation.

 

[JETSDAD]

I'm missing what you're saying.

What I'm saying is if MS clamps down and requires everyone wanting to alter their reservation more than 5 times to call for approval and assistance, then they can make the call if someone is abusing the system or not. Little guys like most of us would not be denied a 6th change since it's obvious through our history we're not renting our points out professionally. The resellers with thousands of points would hopefully be told "no" to continuing their walk.

As @gillep stated, those with more points can walk with fewer modifications than someone with less points. 6-7 nights per add and then they could hold those a lot longer if a system said you could only make so many drops as well. They can sit on a 30+ day reservation and make one big drop at the end where someone with a smaller-normal sized contract can't really play that game.

 

[JETSDAD]

They can easily stop walking. All they have to do require that you can only,modify a reservation if the date after you last day booked is past the 11 month window. As long as the day,after,your reservation is past that then you can modify all you want.Other that that you need to cancel and rebook. Or they could require that the reservation cannot advance more than a set number of days such as 6 or 7 unless you are extending a vacation.

This makes it harder for anyone who simply wants a stay longer than 7 nights. The second part again goes to allowing people with more points to have an even easier chance to walk a reservation because they can afford to have a long trip booked and then modify once at the end.

 

[gillep]

They can easily stop walking. All they have to do require that you can only,modify a reservation if the date after you last day booked is past the 11 month window. As long as the day,after,your reservation is past that then you can modify all you want.Other that that you need to cancel and rebook. Or they could require that the reservation cannot advance more than a set number of days such as 6 or 7 unless you are extending a vacation.

I have never stated that MS can't stop walking. I have stated that all of the fixes I have seen, and thought of myself, in my opinion, do more harm than good to the membership as a whole. I do not believe that making the system less flexible, or adding in complexities to how one can modify or when is in the best interest of the membership as a whole. You may feel differently, and want these complexities added, and you have every right to that opinion, I just don't agree with it.