OT: DS turns 5 end of July so Kindergarten or no Kindergarten

[hmacmahony]

We all have our opinions, and I truely love nothing more than a great debate about, well, pretty much anything.
we did lots of talking to people in this same situation, and I have yet to talk to anyone who held their child to be the tallest, or smartest. As, most people know, that edge goes away by about 3 grade.
I am sure there are people out there who have held the child to be the tallest, better in sports, etc, but in the same breath, there are people out there who are being told that their 4 year old is just not ready for kindergarten, keep them home a year, but the parents send them anyway because well, the cutoff tells them they should be in kindergarten.
I don't think the answer to this is a black and white date, I think it is a case by case basis. But, I honestly think the people who are holding a child to be the tallest, smartest, in the class are VERY VERY rare, I think the bulk of parents just want the child to have a wonderful first year of school, and learn to love school, not to struggle when that struggle could of been avoided.

I completely agree with you in the above cases. The children had medical/speech etc. issues. What I am talking about is parents who simply want their kids to be "gifted" so they send them a year later because in their head Johnny and Suzy just aren't ready for the big bad world of Kindergarten. They tell themselves they are giving their kid the gift of time but what they really are doing is not letting them go so they can keep them home another year. Look, I will be the first to tell you that I hate when my kids are in school. I love them home with me all the time. I do not look foward to the end of summer vacation, spring break etc. I truly enjoy them and I like to think most people enjoy their kids. The people I am talking about and yes, they are even here on the Dis are the ones who say "my baby isn't tall enough, I want her to have an edge, I want a leader, he's a boy and all boys are immature" etc. That is just hogwash. These parents are thinking with their emotions without thinking what is going to be best for the child overall, not just at that moment. If your child has a real issue then you must do what is best for the child, but if it is just because you can't let go then you are not doing your child any favors. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who sat with the principal for 2 hours (tears and all) before I would even register my child for school because I needed to know who would be taking care of my baby. It is hard to let them go, but it is part of what we have to do. JMHO.

 

[brymolmom]

I agree that some hold back for actual reasons - but I have spoken with women who are PREGNANT (as in - haven't even met the child yet to know his/her personality let along K readiness) who already know they are going to hold the child back. Same with kids who are 1 and 2 years old with Oct bdays and they 'know' their decision already....these ones likely aren't based much on actual readiness reasons.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I agree that some hold back for actual reasons - but I have spoken with women who are PREGNANT (as in - haven't even met the child yet to know his/her personality let along K readiness) who already know they are going to hold the child back. Same with kids who are 1 and 2 years old with Oct bdays and they 'know' their decision already....these ones likely aren't based much on actual readiness reasons.

 

[Aristomommy]

I agree that some hold back for actual reasons - but I have spoken with women who are PREGNANT (as in - haven't even met the child yet to know his/her personality let along K readiness) who already know they are going to hold the child back. Same with kids who are 1 and 2 years old with Oct bdays and they 'know' their decision already....these ones likely aren't based much on actual readiness reasons.

I have read these same comments on this board, when the previous Kindergarten thread was going on. There was some people here who said that all their children will be held back, no matter what. So in that case, there isn't any consideration to the child, they may be ready to go, but the parent refuses to send them for their own reasons. (one was a teacher, if I remember correctly)

I think it's so interesting that all of a sudden a greater number of children are not ready for school. Is this due to the NCLB and schools supports holding back more? Or is this a vicious cycle of older Kindergarteners excelling the curriculum, which in turn encourages more holding back? Although Kindergarten is more demanding, in most cases it's only half day. DD went to an all day school since age 4y9mo. and while I know it isn't the choice for every child, it was the right one for her. Had I decided that I will hold her back no matter what, we would have had behavioral issues from boredom.

 

[hmacmahony]

Actually, that was probably me who said I would hold all 4 of my kids, (the exception, might be the youngest, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it). My oldest, who is 6 (late September birthday) started this year, she was held a year.
My next daughter is 5 (also late September birthday, could of gone this year, we held her), we held her for many reasons, one being we did not want her and her sister in kindergarten together. My next is 3, (late august birthday), she is in 5 day a week preschool, an inclusion program for speech. If she continues to have speech problem we will hold her as well.
The next one is 6 months old, I am not sure about him yet, because lets face it, he is only 6 months, but I also believe it would not harm him by holding him a year, and unless he proves to be a genius, I feel that year home, being a kid, with me, will not hurt him. But, once again, we will make that decision when it is time, not now at 6 months.
So, yes, I was a teacher, have four kids, 6, 5, 3 and six months, all have birthdays within days, to a few weeks of our cutoff, and we will probably hold them all.
I am sure your child did wonderful in kindergarten, I hope that continues, almost all the parents we talked to did not have problems with their child in kindergarten, most developed problems later in grade school. Not all, and maybe not your child, but for us we feel like it is playing Russian roulette with our child's future. Why make that gamble that they start having issues due to being young, when we can prevent that by simply keeping them home with us an extra year.
If a parent has their own reasons for keeping a child home, then they must be pretty valid. I stand by my choice 100%, just as people think we might be doing a disservice to our children, I 100% believe people who send their child at 4 are doing a huge disservice to the child by pushing them into something they might not be ready for yet.
I also think NCLB has had an impact on this, but I also believe the schools have as well, many more children are in preschool, and coming into kindergarten much more prepared than we did. Back when we went we learned colors, shapes, numbers and touched on letters, I know in our daughters room, they spent maybe the first few weeks reviewing those things. Then they jumped head on into things that a few years ago were considered 1 grade work.
I think every parent should make this decision, after lots of research, talking to teachers, (preschool, and the kindergarten ones), friends, and many others. It should not be a decision made lightly, and I think that is where I get most offended, is when being told that decision we made was done because I wanted my child to be the tallest, best, smartest child in the room. Like I said before, we know lots of people in this situation, and none of them have gone into it lightly.

I have read these same comments on this board, when the previous Kindergarten thread was going on. There was some people here who said that all their children will be held back, no matter what. So in that case, there isn't any consideration to the child, they may be ready to go, but the parent refuses to send them for their own reasons. (one was a teacher, if I remember correctly)

I think it's so interesting that all of a sudden a greater number of children are not ready for school. Is this due to the NCLB and schools supports holding back more? Or is this a vicious cycle of older Kindergarteners excelling the curriculum, which in turn encourages more holding back? Although Kindergarten is more demanding, in most cases it's only half day. DD went to an all day school since age 4y9mo. and while I know it isn't the choice for every child, it was the right one for her. Had I decided that I will hold her back no matter what, we would have had behavioral issues from boredom.

 

[Aristomommy]

Actually, that was probably me who said I would hold all 4 of my kids, (the exception, might be the youngest, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it). My oldest, who is 6 (late September birthday) started this year, she was held a year.
My next daughter is 5 (also late September birthday, could of gone this year, we held her), we held her for many reasons, one being we did not want her and her sister in kindergarten together. My next is 3, (late august birthday), she is in 5 day a week preschool, an inclusion program for speech. If she continues to have speech problem we will hold her as well.
The next one is 6 months old, I am not sure about him yet, because lets face it, he is only 6 months, but I also believe it would not harm him by holding him a year, and unless he proves to be a genius, I feel that year home, being a kid, with me, will not hurt him. But, once again, we will make that decision when it is time, not now at 6 months.
So, yes, I was a teacher, have four kids, 6, 5, 3 and six months, all have birthdays within days, to a few weeks of our cutoff, and we will probably hold them all.
I am sure your child did wonderful in kindergarten, I hope that continues, almost all the parents we talked to did not have problems with their child in kindergarten, most developed problems later in grade school. Not all, and maybe not your child, but for us we feel like it is playing Russian roulette with our child's future. Why make that gamble that they start having issues due to being young, when we can prevent that by simply keeping them home with us an extra year.
If a parent has their own reasons for keeping a child home, then they must be pretty valid. I stand by my choice 100%, just as people think we might be doing a disservice to our children, I 100% believe people who send their child at 4 are doing a huge disservice to the child by pushing them into something they might not be ready for yet.
I also think NCLB has had an impact on this, but I also believe the schools have as well, many more children are in preschool, and coming into kindergarten much more prepared than we did. Back when we went we learned colors, shapes, numbers and touched on letters, I know in our daughters room, they spent maybe the first few weeks reviewing those things. Then they jumped head on into things that a few years ago were considered 1 grade work.
I think every parent should make this decision, after lots of research, talking to teachers, (preschool, and the kindergarten ones), friends, and many others. It should not be a decision made lightly, and I think that is where I get most offended, is when being told that decision we made was done because I wanted my child to be the tallest, best, smartest child in the room. Like I said before, we know lots of people in this situation, and none of them have gone into it lightly.

I just read an article where 10% of kids are currently held back, which to me says that either the schools are wrong in their curriculum, the teachers are unable to differentiate or the parents are buying into the competitive thinking. I can't see where 10% of kids are not ready for school at the designated time. According to the numbers, this trends has doubled in the last 10 years and continues to double.

I also don't buy the myth that kids are no longer kids when they go to a half day kindergarten program. Mine is still a kid in 4th grade

While I understand many of the reasons parents have said on this board and elsewhere, schools should be more supportive of the kids who do go on time instead of catering to these "gifted" kids who are merely a year older. If a child has speech, fine motor or other disabilities there should also be more support services to allow that child to join their age mates.

In the end, we all want to do what's best for our children. Some parents can't simply afford an extra pre-k year and they don't want their children to stand out and be called immature when they have the right to go to school.

 

[kcromley]

Some of the private schools in Texas have found an effective way of addressing this issue. If your child is within 90 days of the cut-off date, you may choose to hold the child until the next year. However, the child's more advanced age will be considered in the admissions process (meaning, I suppose, that tests results should reflect that advanced age). Seems like a reasonable way to equalize things.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I just read an article where 10% of kids are currently held back, which to me says that either the schools are wrong in their curriculum, the teachers are unable to differentiate or the parents are buying into the competitive thinking. I can't see where 10% of kids are not ready for school at the designated time. According to the numbers, this trends has doubled in the last 10 years and continues to double.

I also don't buy the myth that kids are no longer kids when they go to a half day kindergarten program. Mine is still a kid in 4th grade

While I understand many of the reasons parents have said on this board and elsewhere, schools should be more supportive of the kids who do go on time instead of catering to these "gifted" kids who are merely a year older. If a child has speech, fine motor or other disabilities there should also be more support services to allow that child to join their age mates.

In the end, we all want to do what's best for our children. Some parents can't simply afford an extra pre-k year and they don't want their children to stand out and be called immature when they have the right to go to school.

10 % must be a national average b/c where I live it is the norm to hold. 100% of my DD's preschool class is being held back and they all make our September 30 cut-off. I would say the average is more like 50% in my area.

 

[dimimi]

Forgive me, I haven't read the entire thread.

1. What does the preschool teacher suggest?
2. Did you take him to kindergarten screening to see what the school district suggests?
3. Does you school have young 5's? I live and teach in OH and they will take your child provided the birthdate is on/before 9/30. IF they don't think your child is ready, and they have young 5's, that may be an option.
4. Is this a private school? Our private schools STRONGLY suggest you wait. I teach public, and it is the parent choice.
5. What do you think? My son has a NOV. birthday, so your son would be 9 months younger....OR 4 months older. Which would you prefer?

 

[llori7]

Forgive me, I haven't read the entire thread.

1. What does the preschool teacher suggest?
2. Did you take him to kindergarten screening to see what the school district suggests?
3. Does you school have young 5's? I live and teach in OH and they will take your child provided the birthdate is on/before 9/30. IF they don't think your child is ready, and they have young 5's, that may be an option.
4. Is this a private school? Our private schools STRONGLY suggest you wait. I teach public, and it is the parent choice.
5. What do you think? My son has a NOV. birthday, so your son would be 9 months younger....OR 4 months older. Which would you prefer?

1. The preschool teacher suggested I hold him back another year. He is one of the youngest in the class.
2. I didn't take him to screening yet. He will go to a private school, and you have to pay the registration fee before screening. I used to teach, before he was born. My friend that still teaches K is going to come over and do a screening on him to see what she thinks. He has never met her before, so she will be able to get an accurate picture of how he would do next year.
3. Not sure. I have to contact the school.
4. It is a private school. My friend who used to teach there said the parents tend to hold back a year for summer bdays.
5. I would prefer him to be 4 months older. I don't want the teachers to tell me that he is immature and has a lack of self control b/c he is being compared to kids that are a year older than him.

 

[hmacmahony]

Not a single person on here, who has held their kid has referred to them as gifted, or pushed for anything extra from the child's teacher.
And I gurantee in our area 10% is a VERY low number.

I just read an article where 10% of kids are currently held back, which to me says that either the schools are wrong in their curriculum, the teachers are unable to differentiate or the parents are buying into the competitive thinking. I can't see where 10% of kids are not ready for school at the designated time. According to the numbers, this trends has doubled in the last 10 years and continues to double.

I also don't buy the myth that kids are no longer kids when they go to a half day kindergarten program. Mine is still a kid in 4th grade

While I understand many of the reasons parents have said on this board and elsewhere, schools should be more supportive of the kids who do go on time instead of catering to these "gifted" kids who are merely a year older. If a child has speech, fine motor or other disabilities there should also be more support services to allow that child to join their age mates.

In the end, we all want to do what's best for our children. Some parents can't simply afford an extra pre-k year and they don't want their children to stand out and be called immature when they have the right to go to school.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Actually, that was probably me who said I would hold all 4 of my kids, (the exception, might be the youngest, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it). My oldest, who is 6 (late September birthday) started this year, she was held a year.
My next daughter is 5 (also late September birthday, could of gone this year, we held her), we held her for many reasons, one being we did not want her and her sister in kindergarten together. My next is 3, (late august birthday), she is in 5 day a week preschool, an inclusion program for speech. If she continues to have speech problem we will hold her as well.
The next one is 6 months old, I am not sure about him yet, because lets face it, he is only 6 months, but I also believe it would not harm him by holding him a year, and unless he proves to be a genius, I feel that year home, being a kid, with me, will not hurt him. But, once again, we will make that decision when it is time, not now at 6 months.
So, yes, I was a teacher, have four kids, 6, 5, 3 and six months, all have birthdays within days, to a few weeks of our cutoff, and we will probably hold them all.
I am sure your child did wonderful in kindergarten, I hope that continues, almost all the parents we talked to did not have problems with their child in kindergarten, most developed problems later in grade school. Not all, and maybe not your child, but for us we feel like it is playing Russian roulette with our child's future. Why make that gamble that they start having issues due to being young, when we can prevent that by simply keeping them home with us an extra year.
If a parent has their own reasons for keeping a child home, then they must be pretty valid. I stand by my choice 100%, just as people think we might be doing a disservice to our children, I 100% believe people who send their child at 4 are doing a huge disservice to the child by pushing them into something they might not be ready for yet.
I also think NCLB has had an impact on this, but I also believe the schools have as well, many more children are in preschool, and coming into kindergarten much more prepared than we did. Back when we went we learned colors, shapes, numbers and touched on letters, I know in our daughters room, they spent maybe the first few weeks reviewing those things. Then they jumped head on into things that a few years ago were considered 1 grade work.
I think every parent should make this decision, after lots of research, talking to teachers, (preschool, and the kindergarten ones), friends, and many others. It should not be a decision made lightly, and I think that is where I get most offended, is when being told that decision we made was done because I wanted my child to be the tallest, best, smartest child in the room. Like I said before, we know lots of people in this situation, and none of them have gone into it lightly.

You state you had many reasons so I'll give you that but just because she would be in the same grade as her sister? See that's why I feel a third impartial party with no emotional attachment should be part of the process. JMHO of course.

 

[llori7]

You state you had many reasons so I'll give you that but just because she would be in the same grade as her sister? See that's why I feel a third impartial party with no emotional attachment should be part of the process. JMHO of course.

I agree with hmacmahony, I would not want my children in the same kindergarten class if they were a year apart. I would have also held my second child back a year so they would not be in a class together.

 

[december]

When I stated that my son gets an extra year to be a kid-I didn't mean as a 4th grader. I mean he gets an extra year of childhood before he joins the workforce! He gets an extra year of Santa, and the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy, etc. And for us it was his speech, along with his small size, that decided it for us. Being shy may be a trait we are born with, but when no one understands you and you are made fun of it doesn't make you real outgoing. I can personally attest to that! I went through most of my school years never saying a word because I was teased so much in younger grades. The extra year of preschool gave him enough time with his speech teacher in a small group setting to overcome it. He will be 18 when he graduates, but will be 19 before college. I still don't see how that would affect anyone else's kid.

By the way, I am a teacher. We are required to sit on disciplinary committees pretty often. If the child is in elementary, the elementary principal, counselor, one middle school teacher, and one high school teacher are involved. Twice it has involved a younger kindergarten student who was too immature and disruptive to continue in the class. Both were home bound as a result of our meeting-meaning they were sent home and encouraged to repeat kindergarten.

 

[UAB master]

I would rather wait about starting a child- instead of sending him on and chancing retention. Kindergarten is much more academic than it used to be. The average Kindergarten student is reading before going to 1st grade. If a child is having inmaturity issues, it makes it very difficult for him to pay attention and learn all he should in Kindergarten.

 

[brymolmom]

Actually, that was probably me who said I would hold all 4 of my kids, (the exception, might be the youngest, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it). My oldest, who is 6 (late September birthday) started this year, she was held a year.
My next daughter is 5 (also late September birthday, could of gone this year, we held her), we held her for many reasons, one being we did not want her and her sister in kindergarten together. My next is 3, (late august birthday), she is in 5 day a week preschool, an inclusion program for speech. If she continues to have speech problem we will hold her as well.
The next one is 6 months old, I am not sure about him yet, because lets face it, he is only 6 months, but I also believe it would not harm him by holding him a year, and unless he proves to be a genius, I feel that year home, being a kid, with me, will not hurt him. But, once again, we will make that decision when it is time, not now at 6 months.
So, yes, I was a teacher, have four kids, 6, 5, 3 and six months, all have birthdays within days, to a few weeks of our cutoff, and we will probably hold them all.
I am sure your child did wonderful in kindergarten, I hope that continues, almost all the parents we talked to did not have problems with their child in kindergarten, most developed problems later in grade school. Not all, and maybe not your child, but for us we feel like it is playing Russian roulette with our child's future. Why make that gamble that they start having issues due to being young, when we can prevent that by simply keeping them home with us an extra year.
If a parent has their own reasons for keeping a child home, then they must be pretty valid. I stand by my choice 100%, just as people think we might be doing a disservice to our children, I 100% believe people who send their child at 4 are doing a huge disservice to the child by pushing them into something they might not be ready for yet.
I also think NCLB has had an impact on this, but I also believe the schools have as well, many more children are in preschool, and coming into kindergarten much more prepared than we did. Back when we went we learned colors, shapes, numbers and touched on letters, I know in our daughters room, they spent maybe the first few weeks reviewing those things. Then they jumped head on into things that a few years ago were considered 1 grade work.
I think every parent should make this decision, after lots of research, talking to teachers, (preschool, and the kindergarten ones), friends, and many others. It should not be a decision made lightly, and I think that is where I get most offended, is when being told that decision we made was done because I wanted my child to be the tallest, best, smartest child in the room. Like I said before, we know lots of people in this situation, and none of them have gone into it lightly.

The only thing I think you don't get from the other side of the argument is that we do NOT think you are doing your child a disservice - obviously your kid will be capable of 1st grade academics and behavior in Kindergarten - he/she will appear brilliant and so mature. We, on the other end of the argument - just think that you are doing a disservice to OUR children, which I know you don't really care - just wanted to clarify. At least you are if you insist on the Kindergarten teacher doing more than the numbers and letters and reading C-A-T and other 'normal' Kindergarten curriculum - because that is taking teacher time and resources away from our 4 or young 5 year old child.

And I would be more than happy to have dd at home with me another year - as soon as they change the rules/guidelines/laws to say that she should not be in Kindergarten this year.

And I assure you that there is no disservice to my dd....she is already 15 at heart. And I will be there to make sure her Kindergarten class does NOT turn into a 1st grade classroom.

 

[hmacmahony]

Once again, I have NEVER asked my childs teacher to do anything different than she does already. She teachs to many kids, on many levels, and they are way past basic numbers and letters. The curriculum is very advanced, maybe where your child is, it is not.
It is amazing, how my childs, whos birthday is days before the cutoff is so much smarter, and mature than a child whos birthday is days later than hers. Maybe we just forgot to push that magic maturity button when she turned 5.
Plus as I mentioned before, we did not simply say, hey we want our daughter to be the best in kindergarten, lets keep her home just so she stands out. We kept her home for very valid reasons (which I have stated, but could again if you need me to), so that she had her chance to shine, and to reach her potential. I was not going to push her into a situation where she, and I would of been miserable, and lonely, and would of learned to hate school

The only thing I think you don't get from the other side of the argument is that we do NOT think you are doing your child a disservice - obviously your kid will be capable of 1st grade academics and behavior in Kindergarten - he/she will appear brilliant and so mature. We, on the other end of the argument - just think that you are doing a disservice to OUR children, which I know you don't really care - just wanted to clarify. At least you are if you insist on the Kindergarten teacher doing more than the numbers and letters and reading C-A-T and other 'normal' Kindergarten curriculum - because that is taking teacher time and resources away from our 4 or young 5 year old child.

And I would be more than happy to have dd at home with me another year - as soon as they change the rules/guidelines/laws to say that she should not be in Kindergarten this year.

And I assure you that there is no disservice to my dd....she is already 15 at heart. And I will be there to make sure her Kindergarten class does NOT turn into a 1st grade classroom.

 

[collcass]

My older two are only a year apart in school. My son (end of Nov) birthday began K at 4 1/2. At the end of K, the principal and superintendent requested a meeting with us. They wanted to push him ahead a year for the upcoming school year. we declined for two reasons. A) he would have been 5 i second grade and B) we did not want he and his sister in the same grade.

He turned 9 this past Nov. A boy in his class turned 11 in Jan.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I agree with hmacmahony, I would not want my children in the same kindergarten class if they were a year apart. I would have also held my second child back a year so they would not be in a class together.

I am sure there is more than one teacher (although I could be wrong). So if child #2 is ready they must wait because child #1 wasn't? That doesn't exactly seem like doing the best for the child. YMMV.

 

[KariC]

I am sure there is more than one teacher (although I could be wrong). So if child #2 is ready they must wait because child #1 wasn't? That doesn't exactly seem like doing the best for the child. YMMV.

ITA. Why penalize one, potentially sacrifice their potential? Both children have been gifted with unique, individual talents. Why deny one?