Poll: Your Riviera Resale price

[anomamatt]

I do have a hard time coming up with a scenario where in the absence of these new restrictions we see this contract selling for $100 pp. Even with a highly motivated/distressed seller, in this current environment (minus restrictions), I think it sells for quite a bit more.

Do we know how long it was listed?

I'm saying that I personally would have paid $125/point for their contract.** Today, cash in hand. So they left almost $5K on the table. I had not been looking for contracts over the past few months, but had I known this was for sale, I would have scooped it up. Bottom line: The sellers took too low of a price.

** Given that one has now sold (pending closing) for $100/point, I probably won't be offering anyone $125/point without trying lower first.

 

[Bing Showei]

Agreed. The more I think about this, I wonder if this wasn't an estate situation. Perhaps the owner passed away and the estate took the first offer they were given. My wife would probably do the same. ;-)

The weird thing for me is that even in an estate situation, the executor should've been provided guidance by the broker to set an asking price. Maybe it was such a BIG estate that they didn't care about the financial hit; just wanted to clear assets.

Bee has been in this game long enough to know what the market would bear. I've negotiated offers with her on some listings at her old digs that was like pulling teeth. So she's no stranger to sticking to her guns for clients. Setting the asking at $130 would've felt low, accepting at $100 certainly raises a lot of eyebrows.

 

[badeacon]

175 points. It is also still listed on the broker's website as sale pending.

I'm not sure still being listed on site as sale pending means much. I still have one of my contracts listed on a site as sell pending which has closed and points have been in my account for a month.

 

[PolyRob]

I'm not sure still being listed on site as sale pending means much. I still have one of my contracts listed on a site as sell pending which has closed and points have been in my account for a month.

Wasn’t inferring anything about it’s status. Just meant it’s still out there to view on *******.com

 

[jerseyduke]

I personally would not pay more for DRR points on the resale market that I would for SSR points (forget about the rather significant difference in dues), Id take the points that were good at the original resorts and try to switch out at 7 months.

What this whole debate makes me wonder is this:

DVC is a success for Disney. The resorts sell out kind of quickly. Lets say it takes 8 years for DRR and reflections to sell out. Its now 2027. 15 years until 2042. That would take in the neighborhood of another 5 resorts to that have to be added to DVC to have something to sell on WDW property. Is there a combination if 5 more locations they can add a resort and/or convert hotel rooms? That seems to be a lot.
If this restriction kills the resale market for DRR, it opened up the ROFR market for Disney. Is it possible that they are thinking of just selling ROFR points from 2032 (give or take) until 2042, at which point the clock resets, and they resell the expired resorts?


I know there is the possibility of them building something off property - but it probably will not sell as well as something on property.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I personally would not pay more for DRR points on the resale market that I would for SSR points (forget about the rather significant difference in dues), Id take the points that were good at the original resorts and try to switch out at 7 months.

What this whole debate makes me wonder is this:

DVC is a success for Disney. The resorts sell out kind of quickly. Lets say it takes 8 years for DRR and reflections to sell out. Its now 2027. 15 years until 2042. That would take in the neighborhood of another 5 resorts to that have to be added to DVC to have something to sell on WDW property. Is there a combination if 5 more locations they can add a resort and/or convert hotel rooms? That seems to be a lot.
If this restriction kills the resale market for DRR, it opened up the ROFR market for Disney. Is it possible that they are thinking of just selling ROFR points from 2032 (give or take) until 2042, at which point the clock resets, and they resell the expired resorts?


I know there is the possibility of them building something off property - but it probably will not sell as well as something on property.

Same here for SSR or Riviera at the same price. I’d go the the resort I could trade with. I’d forgotten what price I originally voted here but was thinking about this again yesteday and figured it would be less than $90 to attract my attention for resale points here. More like $80. $100 still sounded too high. Looked back and that what I had voted so no change of thoughts.

 

[anomamatt]

Bee has been in this game long enough to know what the market would bear. I've negotiated offers with her on some listings at her old digs that was like pulling teeth. So she's no stranger to sticking to her guns for clients. Setting the asking at $130 would've felt low, accepting at $100 certainly raises a lot of eyebrows.

I would argue that it's not clear what the market will bear. It's an unknown entity. Look at the spread in this poll (10% of us, me included picked $120). Perhaps Bee is someone that said they would never pay above $100. Perhaps she saw the $100 offer and thought it was a good offer?

This whole thing is strange... even if you are in an absolutely desperate situation, it can be a couple months to clear. Waiting even a few days until word spreads of the very first resale contract, could have netted them an additional $5K (from me, for example). It really makes ZERO sense.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I would argue that it's not clear what the market will bear. It's an unknown entity. Look at the spread in this poll (10% of us, me included picked $120). Perhaps Bee is someone that said they would never pay above $100. Perhaps she saw the $100 offer and thought it was a good offer?

This whole thing is strange... even if you are in an absolutely desperate situation, it can be a couple months to clear. Waiting even a few days until word spreads of the very first resale contract, could have netted them an additional $5K (from me, for example). It really makes ZERO sense.

Bee is the broker, not the buyer. She’s been a DVC broker fo awhile so not new to the markets. It’s all a guess on the what’s or why’s of the actual selling price. Most early resales at new resorts are typically higher than the market wants and sit around. Maybe the new buyer will sell to you after they close and make a couple thousand.

 

[skier_pete]

So, we just recorded a show on the topic of Riviera and resale. I referenced this poll on the show - thanks for everyone who voted! It'll be up in the next few weeks on DVCfan.com.

It sounded like from the conversation that the contract DID pass ROFR at $100. This of course doesn't make it the future price - but Pete made the point that they are now offering incentives on fixed week contracts at Riviera - which they have never done before.

 

[kboo]

I’m curious to see if Disney exercises ROFR. I cannot imagine it’ll go through... but if it does, that’s very telling imo. As an aside, me, my BF and my two grown sons all took the DVC tour this earlier this year. Every one of us got a follow up call in the last 2 weeks with additional incentives if we bought at riviera. I told him there is NO chance I’m buying Riviera .. sorry. Never mentioned what the extra incentives were but we all got the same call. That to me indicates soft sales at Riviera even though the guides insist it’s selling like hot cakes

I'd be curious to know what the additional incentives are - whether they are back to the developer credits from the spring (effective price of $166 pp for what we bought) or something else. I did hear of incentives on guaranteed weeks, which would be something new.

Maybe the new buyer will sell to you after they close and make a couple thousand.

Agree. Would not be surprised if someone tries to flip this. Maybe use the contract a few times to stay at RIV, and then resell.

I was one of the people who voted around $120. As someone who has grandfathered points, if I were to buy RIV resale, I would be doing it only to use at RIV. I think the resort is going to be great and there are no other EP/HS options appealing to me - I don't want a 2042 end date at the prices where they are now.

 

[Matty B13]

After reading Pete's blog, it doesn't look to good for RRV sales! Wonder if things don't turn around what the next incentives will be.

I also think, since it is written into the contracts at RRV, that RRV is a resort you really have to think about buying into even if they change their minds on the resale restrictions the contract is setup that they could impose any restrictions they want, at any time. It's a lot of money to lay out, and not have some guarantees.

 

[anomamatt]

Bee is the broker, not the buyer. She’s been a DVC broker fo awhile so not new to the markets. It’s all a guess on the what’s or why’s of the actual selling price. Most early resales at new resorts are typically higher than the market wants and sit around. Maybe the new buyer will sell to you after they close and make a couple thousand.

I know she's the broker. I was replying to the comment about this specific broker understanding the market. My point is that no one understands the Riviera market at the moment.

With such a new entity, I do place more responsibility on the broker. And I would hope they told the seller not to accept this offer. Maybe they did and the seller insisted...

 

[anomamatt]

Agree. Would not be surprised if someone tries to flip this. Maybe use the contract a few times to stay at RIV, and then resell.

It would be a genius move if DVC ever decides that the resale restriction is hurting direct sales and decided to remove the restriction...

 

[TexasChick123]

It would be a genius move if DVC ever decides that the resale restriction is hurting direct sales and decided to remove the restriction...

That's too forward thinking for DVD. They are all about what is right in front of them and rarely think of the long game. Unless sales are completely tanking, they refuse to accept that they ever made a mistake. If sales are slow, there is an excuse. It would take a complete nosedive in sales for this pull back in restrictions to happen sadly. This is coming from a RIV owner too.

 

[jerseyduke]

So, we just recorded a show on the topic of Riviera and resale. I referenced this poll on the show - thanks for everyone who voted! It'll be up in the next few weeks on DVCfan.com.

It sounded like from the conversation that the contract DID pass ROFR at $100. This of course doesn't make it the future price - but Pete made the point that they are now offering incentives on fixed week contracts at Riviera - which they have never done before.

I would have been shocked if it didn't pass ROFR. Disney sure doesn't need any DRR points to sell since there inventory is all but the whole resort, and now there are some restricted points out there, which is what they seem to want(albeit a minuscule amount of them)

Very interesting about the fixed week incentives...I wonder what took them so long - I mean hell, you are paying a 10% premium to begin with, and its not like there was a whole lot of fixed weeks sold at VGF, PVB, and CCV. Total fixed week deeds has tended to be a very very small portion - so its not like its costing much to offer the incentive on them as well.

 

[Bing Showei]

I also think, since it is written into the contracts at RRV, that RRV is a resort you really have to think about buying into even if they change their minds on the resale restrictions the contract is setup that they could impose any restrictions they want, at any time. It's a lot of money to lay out, and not have some guarantees.

In all fairness, every single Disney timeshare contract that preceded Riviera makes only one guarantee: that the owner will have the opportunity to book their home resort 30 days prior to everyone else.

It does not guarantee that the hotel side of the resort, restaurants, spas, any established transportation system, or theme park for that matter (think: “monorail resort” sans monorail or MK) will be maintained. Your ADs pay only for your timeshare building.

I think people tend to ignore this as it seems far fetched that VGF would lose the hotel, restaurants, spas, monorail, or MK, but in reality, those are the exact terms that every Disney timeshare owner agreed to. I’m not saying it will likely happen- I personally don’t foresee this happening, but any feelings that Riviera is detrimentally or significantly less secure in terms of contractual guarantees, than any other Disney timeshare property would require ignoring the insecure nature of any timeshare, Disney or otherwise.

This is why a Disney timeshare is strongly recommended by many to be viewed as a luxury purchase, a sunk cost, and a buy-to-use product, not an investment.

 

[Matty B13]

In all fairness, every single Disney timeshare contract that preceded Riviera makes only one guarantee: that the owner will have the opportunity to book their home resort 30 days prior to everyone else.

It does not guarantee that the hotel side of the resort, restaurants, spas, any established transportation system, or theme park for that matter (think: “monorail resort” sans monorail or MK) will be maintained. Your ADs pay only for your timeshare building.

I think people tend to ignore this as it seems far fetched that VGF would lose the hotel, restaurants, spas, monorail, or MK, but in reality, those are the exact terms that every Disney timeshare owner agreed to. I’m not saying it will likely happen- I personally don’t foresee this happening, but any feelings that Riviera is detrimentally or significantly less secure in terms of contractual guarantees, than any other Disney timeshare property would require ignoring the insecure nature of any timeshare, Disney or otherwise.

This is why a Disney timeshare is strongly recommended by many to be viewed as a luxury purchase, a sunk cost, and a buy-to-use product, not an investment.

True, but the RRV contracts are written differently, as far as trading in to the other resorts, which can be manipulated at anytime, and resale is specifically called out in the RRV contracts which is completely different from the L14 resorts.

 

[CarolMN]

I agree that you should not draw inferences based on a single data point and really we don't know the circumstances surrounding this individual case so even making assumptions about this one case is difficult. With that said, I do have a hard time coming up with a scenario where in the absence of t pp. Even w

 

[badeacon]

if I were to buy RIV resale, I would be doing it only to use at RIV. I think the resort is going to be great and there are no other EP/HS options appealing to me - I don't want a 2042 end date at the prices where they are now.

I am thinking the same way. I would like an Epcot resort but do not want 2042 end years at current price. I am planning on checking out RRV on next several visits which I have planned. If like ,then will watch resale market in future and if price stays down in $120 -100 area, will probably buy. I have direct and other resales for the other resorts.

 

[kboo]

I am thinking the same way. I would like an Epcot resort but do not want 2042 end years at current price. I am planning on checking out RRV on next several visits which I have planned. If like ,then will watch resale market in future and if price stays down in $120 -100 area, will probably buy. I have direct and other resales for the other resorts.

Yeah, I just wanted access to EP/HS *now* I have no excuse.

That said, we were trying to decide between adding on to BLT or buying RIV direct - the price wasn't all that different and we wanted a home resort in the EP/HS area. When we first bought BLT, we were looking at BLT or BWV, and the right BLT contract was listed before the "right" BWV contract. Then when we were going to buy a 2nd home resort, I actually made offers on BWV and BCV contracts and they were unsuccessful. Then the "right" VGF contract popped up, and we ended up heavy on the MK side and not at all on EP/HS. It's not like we didn't try, but BCV and BWV are overpriced to me, because of the end date.