Pop Century: Yea or Nay?

[cristen]

Originally posted by bretsyboo
that's playing dirty

Hmmm...... I'll leave that one alone.

 

[airlarry!]

Josh, I'm sitting on my porch with a sloooow wireless connection but I promise to get to your question tonight.

I would like to add to DB, Vike...err...Mr. Ken, and Josh that something struck me as funny today as I leafed through excellent posts that were wedged around a bizarre mating ritual between two obviously inebriated JJers.

Captain Pete bravely asked, if I may paraphrase, if any one of us are surprised by the 'success' (his words, surely not mine) of this new hotel. Poop is popular, it seems, according to the good Cap'n.

Does it really come as a surprise that a hotel charging under $80 a night, on site, with smiling CMs, mickey mouse towels in the window, reliable if boring bus transportation to the parks, themed (crappily) pools, and authentic Disney shopping.........has so far been a success, from a booking standpoint?

Wow.

Next thing you'll tell me is that when Moses parted the Red Sea, the Isrealites escaped. Or maybe announce, "Pearl Harbor Attacked! U.S. considering declaration of war against Japan!" Holy Not Surprising, Batman.

No, the real surprise would have been the exact opposite.

A little planning, mayhaps, like putting new parks situated with new resorts with two or three price points to attract those of different means. (cf Matt's plagiarism...err...research).

You know.

Risk taking. Something Walt would frequently (though admittedly not always) do.

Or.

You could just blow $5 billion on Fox Family, build two hotels any high school FBLA advertising team could design, piss off John Lassiter, and declare the Ei$ner Doctrine of Tourism Containment, right DB?

 

[cristen]

I really wish someone could post all the figures. I don't think this thread can go much further until we know some numbers.

Exactly how much does it cost to build these hotels? Of course the deluxes cost more, but exactly how much more?

Since we are quoting the AP rates for the values at 49.00-59.00 a night (because on their web site they are offered at 77.00, not 49.00), then I want to know why they can offer the values at 59.00 a night and the moderates at 74.00 a night? That's only a 15.00 difference. So that would tell me that the mods are not that more to operate, or to build. Otherwise they would have to charge a whole lot more to recoup the costs, correct?

So for 74.00 a night I get Port Orleans, for 59.00 a night, I get a giant poodle skirt. That's lame, and there is no other way around it. Who cares if it is a success (financial, no other), it's lame that that is what they are being offered.

And really, it is an eye sore. I was so impressed as I first drove into WDW for the first time, then I see Pop. What a disappointment. They at least could have put it somewhere where no one could see it.

 

[bretsyboo]

wedged around a bizarre mating ritual between two obviously inebriated JJers.

This is completely untrue. It was not obvious.

They at least could have put it somewhere where no one could see it.

california adventure

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Exactly how much does it cost to build these hotels? Of course the deluxes cost more, but exactly how much more?

I know that many will not understand my response to this, but I'll give it a go anyway.

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!

Read that post from the newest element member Ray:

"That's why I love Walt Disney. It costs $100,000 to build a spire you didn't need. The secret of Disney is doing things you don't need and doing them well and then you realize you needed them all along." - Ray Bradbury

That's all that matters. Quality and WOWing creativity in conjunction with price = amazing "DISNEY" value!!

And that should have been the goal instead of those abominations that they did build!!

 

[YoHo]

Originally posted by cristen
I really wish someone could post all the figures. I don't think this thread can go much further until we know some numbers.

Exactly how much does it cost to build these hotels? Of course the deluxes cost more, but exactly how much more?

Since we are quoting the AP rates for the values at 49.00-59.00 a night (because on their web site they are offered at 77.00, not 49.00), then I want to know why they can offer the values at 59.00 a night and the moderates at 74.00 a night? That's only a 15.00 difference. So that would tell me that the mods are not that more to operate, or to build. Otherwise they would have to charge a whole lot more to recoup the costs, correct?

So for 74.00 a night I get Port Orleans, for 59.00 a night, I get a giant poodle skirt. That's lame, and there is no other way around it. Who cares if it is a success (financial, no other), it's lame that that is what they are being offered.

And really, it is an eye sore. I was so impressed as I first drove into WDW for the first time, then I see Pop. What a disappointment. They at least could have put it somewhere where no one could see it.

There's this board run by this guy Jeff where a couple months ago, I started a big old multithread Resort costs behmoth that answers many of these questions.
Costs to operate resorts in 2004, costs from the old days. It's all there. I suspect you've been to this site in the past. you should check it out.

 

[YoHo]

And just to clarify. This isn't about profit left on the table. Bret answered that, but not well enough apparently.



Look,
Right now, May of 2004, Disney could make a profit chargin $130 a night at the Poly. it wouldn't be a huge profit, but a profit. They charge what between $280-$1000 not counting discount codes or other annoying cheats? So, they make a 100% profit and up. Clearly, the market would bare a whole lot.Logically, all they should build are Deluxes, because they generate such a rediculous profit. sure, most of the plebes would be forced out on to 192 or I-drive, but they don't deserve Disney Magic.

Or, they build resorts that are NOT the poly, tha cost less, but not much less to operate and still make a hefty profit. Sure, the experience isn't the same, but heck, no pay, no play. The CM's will still make your towels into little animals and the pool is not a rectangle.

That's crap too. I don't have a hard amount that DIsney should leave on the table, becuase their isn't a hard amount.

The issue is that Disney should be uncompromising on what it means to be a DIsney resort.

There should be a list that says.
A Disney Resort MUST:


I would suggest to you, that if you made such a list based on the poly, you'd get a good fondation.

Then from that list you might say, okay, what on here is something that is less essential? maybe it's the resturants? certainly it could be location.... Now you have a Moderate/Value.

The Value resorts don't look at things this way. There is no obvious direct decending from Poly to Poop. There is one from say Poly to Port Orleans, or even CBR, although I think CBR took some wrong turns.


The money is only a side issue. The cost to operate is an answer to those that would say that giving us the Poly costs TOO DANG MUCH for a value, they'd lose their shirts.


Well, no they wouldn't actually. They'd make a profit at $130 thankyou very much.

So the question isn't how much they are leaving on the table, but why they choose to screw the value guests?

That's the reason that the former Imagineer plan for Hamurabi is so interesting. It acknowledges that the biggest difference between a Deluxe, a Mod and a Value is perception.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Bret answered my question: He states that Disney should leave no profit on the table, so the rates Poly charge now are acceptable because that is what the market is willing to pay. A by-product of that profit margin allowed Poly to do a beautiful renovation of the pool, ( although I can't imagine why there is no hot tub) , maintain the lush landscaping and keep the resort staffed at a level to maintain 1st class service.

But obviously not everyone can afford Poly's market price. So what to do......

As I've stated in this thread & others, staying on-property is more magical to me then the actual resort. I've stayed in very nice resorts off property,Marriott, Radisson and Sheraton, but it just wasn't the same as staying on property.My DW is from a large family- 8 bro & sis. She is trying to arrange a big family trip to WDW. At this time in our lives we are very fortunate to be able to afford to stay on property, but some members of her family are not if AS/PC were not an option.

So is it better to raze the Value resorts and exclude those who can't afford a Poly or even a Riverside ? I don't think anyone in this discussion is snobbish enough to want to restrict access to only those who can afford the Poly so I will assume there is a need for an affordable Value resort.

Now, don't forget, Disney shouldn't be expected to leave profit on the table in order to accomplish this. The market sets the rate.

If I understand the message Baron & others are trying to express it's that Disney should build a Poly type Value resort but still be able to keep the rates low enough for the common man. Brett, I haven't "built the resort that goes too low" for you yet, but I'll ask you to build me a Value Poly.

After the New Poly is built to old Poly standards, what happens when Old Poly guests say "hey, I can save a few $$$ by staying at the New Poly. It's the exact same magic for a 3rd of the price. Now the market takes over. Old Poly has empty rooms, prices have to be cut,slashed,discounted out the whazoo. What a bargain, retro Poly pricing. But the same market affect is doing something odd to New Poly. Guests love it, place is booked months in advance. Can't leave that profit on the table- bump the price...bump it again...and again. Hmmmmm. What happened.

 

[cristen]

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!

There's this board run by this guy Jeff where a couple months ago, I started a big old multithread Resort costs behmoth that answers many of these questions.

Thank you guys. Of course I know it doesn't matter. But I got the feeling that part of Scoop's argument was that with the shoestring budget that was given to build these hotels, that that was all they could come up with. So I would like to know exactly how much they cost, just to compare. Not, YoHo, just how much the operating costs are. I know from that very long thread, and Boo's friend, that it's not that much of a difference. I was talking mainly about the building costs. And unless I was sleeping that night I was on, I don't remember anyone posting specific numbers on how much all the resorts cost to build.

So you see, YoHo, my friend, I was posing the question to different people on a different board. They may have never read that thread.

 

[YoHo]

I believe that those questions were answered as well. At least in part.


Mr. Viking, we do not live in a black and White world. Some things however can be equated in such terms.

There is only 1 Disney standard. something either isn't a part of it, or it is. The shades of gray in profit margins however are voluminous.


I ask you how did Walt make the Happiest place on Earth? I don't know the whole story, but I do know that he never once, not once gave a flying fig about What the market will bare and neither did his sharp pencil brother. Walt would have created it at a fair price and not compromised his standards to do so.



In my opinion, putting What the Market will bare ahead of what the company should provide is a significant flaw in modern Disney and many other U.S. Corporations today.

Of course, given the fact that many a modern corporation is getting their tail handed to them in the buisness world and in the courts........

 

[bretsyboo]

ANSWER MY QUESTION!

ANSWER MY QUESTION!

ANSWER MY QUESTION!

O.K., now moving on.

when you say: O.k. wait, I'm a bit frusterated so I'm first going to talk to cris

But I got the feeling that part of Scoop's argument was that with the shoestring budget that was given to build these hotels

It was confirmed that Disney pays off the building fees within 2 years of the hotel opening, and has always done so. The all stars are paid off already.

ok, viking, here we go, when you say:

If I understand the message Baron & others are trying to express it's that Disney should build a Poly type Value resort but still be able to keep the rates low enough for the common man.

You are wrong.

It's like saying that I think every ride Disney builds should be like pirates, I don't. I think Pirates is absolutly the best, but it doesn't mean I think everything else has faile,d or everything else needs to be pirates plus.

However I do feel that there are minimums I feel triceratop spin falls below that minimum, I feel that the american adventure is well above it. I'm not disappointed that neither are up to pirates standards (imo) I am disappointed that tric spin isn't up to disney standards. That is a HUGE point. Look I've already put a 130 dollar price tag on what Disney COULD be charging for the poly, that is above the "values" and I would certainly never expect to be charged below. But Port Orleans, as Cris points out, obviously COULD be charged the same rates as the values, and so there you are, you want a value resort I'd accept? Port Orleans, I've just built it for you.

Look, you have two choices and you can't have it both ways. Either you think Disney should take the profits or leave the profits. Either you think Disney should charge market value for every hotel, which if you believe the occupancy rates means you think they should raise the prices of the values....which would price them out of some peoples ranges and thus negate the "moral purpose" of the values, or you think Disney should lower the prices to some sort of flat profit % rate that doesn't exclude some segments of the population and therefore hotel prices would drop dramatically and the moderates would then easily fall into the affordable category thus negating the need for the values.

Any other solution is unfair. Guests are supposed to be treated equally. Making people who stay at the Poly pay market prices while having the values stay rent controlled is simply not an acceptable solution when talking about guest equality. Besides if you are charging a family that can afford the 500 dollar a night poly prices, but are looking at a 50 dollar a night value price...well plenty are going to be taking up those affordable value rooms and leaving empty unaffordable rooms for those who can't afford them as they get their hotel off property. This is why prices must be one or another, either what the markets will bear or what the resorts cost, tOO big of a devide will always come back to hurt you in the end.

So what are we left with? The idea that you can build a resort that is so tacky, and so, well pathetic, that the market will never let its "value" exceed the low prices needed for some families.

Perhaps this is the underlying perfection of the values. They suck SO much Disney knows that there is no way the public will price it out of anyones range. Genius.

Personally I see the market driving up prices at the poly to the extent that they have because the poly gives you such an experience that people are willing to pay outrages prices just to get a taste of that Disney magic. People who stay at the pop seem to do so because they want to be able to get tastes of other magic (food, park tickets, etc.)

Let the market price:

Hello guest, ff you want to stay on property and can't afford it, gosh I'm really sorry, but we build things so well that we are able to get 100% capacity at our hotels and we simply have no more room. Now rest assured that we are making plenty of money off of this and so because we are a good company we are not giving the profits away as stock benefits to the board, but instead expanding our resorts all over the world.

Because we have this capacity obviously we can build more hotels here, which while increasing our profits would at the same time lessen the strain on the other hotels and lower there price. Perhaps then you can afford one. Or maybe we will build a resot closer to your place of residence which would lower the strain on all other resorts, make us able to keep prices lower while making more money and lowering YOUR traveling expenses thus increasing your liklihood of being able to afford to stay with us.

Unfortunatly even in the beginning, even when it was just walt with disneyland, we cannot set our prices because someone may not make much money and live far away and have a lot of other circumstances that may keep someone from affording a disney vacation. All we can pledge to you is that we are putting this money to good use and the way we are doing it will not only make us more money, but also lessen the financial strain upon our guests.

Rest assured that we will never ever lessen our product just so you can stay on the grounds and have a cheap imitation of what a Disney experience is supposed to be like. That's not who we are. Each and every guest we have we are going to give it our all to give them the trip of their lifetime and that is why they are willing to pay the prices that they pay. We fully recognize that an oversized buzz light year or a giant yoyo does not fit in this description and we will not insult you or the Disney name by saying it does.

Let a % margin price:

Come on in to Port Orleans we are offering everyone a very fair price. Since all of our prices are comparable and easily affordable based upon what the public is willing to pay, you can be sure that people are quickly flocking to our admittedly better resorts and leaving you, who may not be able to afford upwards of 150 a night this still very good resort for about half the price.

You still get those great CM's, you still get magical transportation free of charge to downtown disney, you still get a spectacular and huge pool with a slide, you still get activities specific to your resort, you are still immersed in a theme, and most importantly we still try to give you the best Disney experience we can.

We'd love for every resort to overlook the magic kingdom on the beach front, unfortunatly those spots have been taken. Still, we recognized that not everything can be the best but we want you to know that we are commited to you not just being satisifed but having a truly magical experience.

Obviously some people like things better than others, and this may not be your favorite resort, but gosh have we put the effort into it so that you will enjoy your stay. We admit that motel 6 is cheaper, and if a hotel is nothing more than a bed and a roof, then it probably actually is smarter for you to stay off property.

However if you need our free of charge provided Disney transportation we are happy to inform you that the millions of little extras we give you will not hamper your need for a bed and roof in any way.

Also, you do not need to make a compromise because we have kept our prices so low. Pretty great that we are still offering you this hotel instead of another one in the middle of nowhere where the view out your window could well be the back of a fiberglass jukebox for the same price eh? Yeah, we know it's great, it's because we TRY to do our best with everything that we do, and frankly we are well aware that 5 coats of bright paint and cool it written on a roof top is nowhere near the effort needed to make something great.

We'd like to remind you that we know the Disney name means something and so we would never build an abomonation like that even if we only charged 20 dollars a night because the name Disney means something special to everyone, and we know that a hotel like that would not instill the feelings in our guests that we would hope to fill them with, and nothing but nothing means more to us then to show each and every guest that we are committed to giving them a trip where from the moment they step on property we will skimp on nothing because we love our guests and we know that in a world that does nothing but try to rip them off, that they are special, and such treatment will do nothing but benefit both sides.

Now, EITHER one of those options are acceptable ways to run Disney in my opinion. So....

ANSWER MY QUESTION!

 

[cristen]

It was confirmed that Disney pays off the building fees within 2 years of the hotel opening, and has always done so. The all stars are paid off already.

This still doesn't tell me what I want to know!!!! First off, let's say the WL costs 100 dollars to build, and Pop cost 50 dollars. Then I want to know why the huge discrepency in the pricing. If WL cost 100 dollars and Pop cost 60, then I want to know why such the huge descepency in theming and overall apperance. If the WL cost 100 dollars, and Pop cost 10, then I know.

Telling me how long their payment plan is on this, is not helping me. Thank you.

 

[bretsyboo]

you're welcome!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

The LandBaron rises and wildly applauds Mr. Boo!!!!

Bravo!!

Thank you Mr. Boo!!!! Very well said indeed!!!

 

[ShadowWind]

Originally posted by bretsyboo
I've said it on the other board so I'll say it here. I had ZERO magic at the pop century that was caused by the pop century (I did say, look at maps at the pop century which gave me magic, but I could do that here...and do, and also the custodians putting the stuffed animals in the wondow was nice) Zero magic, Nooooo magic. Nothing about the pop century did anything for me, in any way, and like I said, I even expected it to! Would a motel 6 be the same? with the exception of stuffed animals in wondows YES! YES for me it would have been the same (only cheaper) It was a motel 6 with animals in some windows! Is that what Disney's aim should be?

Not to sound crass, but should the other hundreds of thousands of guests care whether you personally felt the magic or not at PC? I am a long time Disney visitor and I found both stays at PC to be quite magical and certainly an enjoyable time. Much more so than my disasterous stay at Port Orleans Riverside where it was the worst vacation I'd ever had at WDW. Not only did I get in an argument over a 45 minute key replacement, dealing with their stupid and archaic push button door system (which from an ECV is a nightmare), the bowel loosening bridges that shake an ECV to death, and the fact I had to explain to every darn CM that my Riverside Bank debit card was not a phony resort ID. I certainly wrote a scathing review. So going by your standard, they should tear down POR because I experienced no magic there, zip, nada. As far as decor, I live in the south and have travelled the region quite extensively, and all I saw was reproductions of the common mansions found here. But I do know that other people enjoy it, just as I enjoy Pop Century. The blast from the past back to days that were far more fun and much less hard than they are now, was just what the doctor ordered. I had a great time, looking over the icons, historical displays, and such. Made it fun and eager for me to get out of bed and go exploring. If you choose to see it as a Motel 6, it's certainly your perogative, but I've stayed at all ranges of resorts and motels, and I certainly wouldn't categorize it that way. It's not beautiful, but then some of the most enjoyable art isn't either. It's still art and to me it's still magic.

My advice. Just don't stay there again. There are 20 hotels or so on the property, serving all kinds of vacationers and their interests. I have the money to stay at the more expensive resorts. A 7 day solo trip generally costs me $2200 with all the fixings, so another $15-20 a night doesn't make that much difference, but I choose to stay at PC, because I like it and to me, it's magical and artistically fascinating.

To answer your question, when Disney creates a sterile and cold hotel like the hundreds I've stayed at in my travels. When it no longer presents something that can only be found there. When it stops to make the world outside reappear. Then it will be below the Disney standard in my eyes. I think DINORAMA and McDonalds bring in too much of the outside world. It's not even that they are tacky, but too off the shelf in experience. I don't consider Pop Century such a failure, because regardless of the decor, the whole experience to me is much more than fiberglass icons.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Perhaps this is the underlying perfection of the values. They suck SO much Disney knows that there is no way the public will price it out of anyones range. Genius."***

In one respect, this is exactly why you build an AS/PC the way they did rather then a Poly. I'll come back to this.

***" Guests are supposed to be treated equally. "***

If you mean every guest should expect the same level of service regardless of the price they paid then I disagree. Every guest should expect courtious CM's, clean rooms and a safe enviroment, but don't expect turn down service at the Motel 6.

Back to the first point and I'll try and build your "too low" resort as I go. Disney chose a piece of less then prime realestate - not that it's bad land, but it's also not on the mono line or within walking distance to Epcot. This will restrict it's pricing. Placing the resort on land out near what I believe is affectionately refered to as "the muck pond" goes too low.

The Value resorts lack a sit-down restaurant - opting instead for a food court. Nothing wrong with a food court, but the lack of Boatwrights will discourage some guests, helping to keep the price low. "too low" would be no food option whatsoever.

The value resorts lack the lush landscaping and secluded pathways of the other resorts. People that intend to make the resort their vacation rather then the parks and other outside interest would be discouraged from staying here for this and other obvious reasons. "too low" would be brown sod & three palm trees at the resort enterance.

Value resorts are not quaint, cozy resorts, they are sprawling resorts with many times the number of rooms, (didn't I read where PC could have 10,000 rooms when -and if- completed). People who want and can afford to avoid such crowds will stay away, keeping the price low. I believe the PC building are no more then three stories. "too low" would be 10 story boxes.

Value resorts need functional check-in areas that can handle traffic efficiently. It is more a place of business then a comfort station. IMO the WL lobby has an unmatched WOW factor. If money isn't an issue, a stay at the WL is worth it for the lobby alone. People will never be drawn to PC for the lobby, helping to keep the price low. The lobby in the "too low" resort would include the afore mentioned bullet proof glass, thread bare carpet, a little table in the corner with a half pot of 6 hr old coffee, a three pound container of some off-brand creamer & sugar bags that have golden arches on them. The "CM" behind the counter .... well, I think you understand the point I'm making.

Many guests at a Value resort I assume choose to drive to WDW in order to save a few bucks. Large parking lot are needed. Many room views will be of parking lots & not fireworks. The parking lots will placed a good deal away so as to not ruin the feel of the resort as much as possible. The other resorts do a much better job obviously of hiding the parking lots, although I don't think any resort lacks at least some parking lot views. People that really enjoy sitting out on their balcony with a morning cuppa will be discouraged from staying at a resort with too many parking lot views, helping to keep the prices low. "too low" resort would have the guest room buildings sitting right in the middle of a searingly hot asphalt parking lot or they would build a 10 story parking garage & charge $8.00 per day to use it.

I'll build more later if needed but I should actually try & get some work done for my employer.

But I want to get back to my original point. There is nothing quite like staying on property, regardless of where you stay. Could PC have been built to my standard of a Value and looked a lot better, no doubt about it, but for whatever obscene reason, the people that do stay there - the average vacationer, not the Walt Disney purist - enjoy the place.

 

[All Aboard]

So for 74.00 a night I get Port Orleans, for 59.00 a night, I get a giant poodle skirt. That's lame, and there is no other way around it. Who cares if it is a success (financial, no other), it's lame that that is what they are being offered.

Yet, cristen, there are a couple thousand people every night facing that pricing decision and electing to choose the poodle skirt.

This thread still stinks of "you don't know what's good for you."

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by gcurling
This thread still stinks of "you don't know what's good for you."

You give me ANY quote that backs that up.

I don't think that ANYBODY has said that people that enjoy pop don't know what's good for them. It's been simply stated that it's a huge departure from Walt's philosophies.

I don't see how much clearer that can be made.

 

[bretsyboo]

Not to sound crass, but should the other hundreds of thousands of guests care whether you personally felt the magic or not at PC?

Boy oh boy, I was asked a question of what it was for me in regards to a motel 6, and I answered it, it was not a justification for anything, it was not a people should feel the way I do, it was nothing more than me answering the question the same as you reported your P.O. experience where I could then unfairly ask you if the millions of guests that have stayed there should care. I was asked, I answered, should I not have? The entire passage clearly states what it was for me, I used first tense the entire time, I didn't say pop century IS this, or DOESN'T do that for anyone, I said what it didn't do for me.

Might I add that it sounds like most of your PO bad experience was with cast members, so if we are using "my" qualifiers that you made up, then we ought tear down every resort. Did you appreciate the theme?

To answer your question, when Disney creates a sterile and cold hotel like the hundreds I've stayed at in my travels. When it no longer presents something that can only be found there. When it stops to make the world outside reappear. Then it will be below the Disney standard in my eyes. I think DINORAMA and McDonalds bring in too much of the outside world. It's not even that they are tacky, but too off the shelf in experience. I don't consider Pop Century such a failure, because regardless of the decor, the whole experience to me is much more than fiberglass icons.

I appreciate the effort, but your disney too low seems almost entirely based upon feelings, are you saying if there was a mcdonalds at the pop is would be too low for disney, and if so does that mean you feel that marketplace is below disney? I'm looking for something concrete that when they come back here with a mcdonalds on resort property you are going to be pissed, with meerly feelings I would have come back here for pop and been quite suprised. Of course I want to know what you think of the huge coke bottle at the all stars.

viking-the idea of building something you know huge segments of the population won't like so that it remains available for segments who can't afford the good stuff is obsene. It's disgusting. To say yes you can stay on property because anyone in their right mind who can afford to stay somewhere else won't be here well...gee...I wonder why we never heard that Walt quote.

As for guest equality, what needs to be done for every guest differs from ride to ride, hotel to hotel, restaurant to restaurant, etc. Still the effort remains the same throughout. What I mean by this is the effort to make you experience another world and have a dream vacation. You may like WL more than the Poly, but in both places they try to theme you, they try to get that wow factor. There is nothing obvious missing from either. If you were to be asked to picture a wilderness lodge you would picture the one they built. If you were asked about a polynesian resort, the poly would be a perfect illistration. Disney has never done anything to perfect authenticity, but when you step into the poly you feel like you were there, or at the least you feel like the effort to make it like polynesia is there...same with all of the other resorts.

Now picture a 50's resort. That's right, just like in the 50's there would be giant fiberglass dogs, Yoyos that act as stare cases, bowling pin shaped pools, and silhouettes of dancers blocking windows. Just like in the 50's your bedspread would be the timeless look of every decade that had ever existed (which turns out to be appropriatly themed for every decade) and the walls would be bare as could be with the exception of a poster on the wall dedicated to the current decade you live in that reminds you "hey! I'm in the 50's!" It's so dangerously real I have seen older guests cry for the good old days.

Pop century was always going to be nothing more than a cheap resort, so no effort was put in to making the guests feel the magic. They treated all of the guests equally throught all of the other resorts until they got to all stars, and somehow made it worse with pop. There was no care or respect for the guests. They made it extremely apparent that if you can afford to stay at the yacht and beach club then you are far more important then those who choose to stay at Pop.

As for your answers-am I to take them as a whole? All of these makes a non disney resort? Or does it just take one, or a combo, or something like that. If pop's food court went under a 2 year rehab, would it not be a disney resort for 2 years?

Yet, cristen, there are a couple thousand people every night facing that pricing decision and electing to choose the poodle skirt.

This thread still stinks of "you don't know what's good for you."

I suspect that if many guests stayed at a moderate for one night at 15 dollars more, and then stayed another night at pop, they would go back to the moderates.

is that you don't know what's good for you? I'd say no, but maybe. I don't blame anyone for taking a more economic route whatever their reasons may be, I don't blame anyone for staying off property. Disney is expensive. I do feel sorry for them that they can't experience fully what Disney is supposed to be like, and I don't think the values come close to what Disney is supposed to be like. I think the moderates are minor steps down from the luxury hotels, I think the values are off a cliff.

I think perhaps we are too far removed from Walt and his ideals and so people don't realize what Disney is supposed to be.

But hey Curling, glad you are still keeping up with this thread, and as so...

ANSWER MY QUESTION!

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by bretsyboo
Disney has never done anything to perfect authenticity, but when you step into the poly you feel like you were there, or at the least you feel like the effort to make it like polynesia is there...same with all of the other resorts.

I agree with everything except the above. The Polynesian upset a lot of guests because the 2nd floor had no balconies - attempting to emulate Polynesian longhouses.

Just something to chew on.