Pretend You're a WDW Executive

[PKS44]

spruce: ". Let's say there are 55,000 DVC member families. Each of these families has 4 members in their family. So, let's say we have 55,000 x 4 = 220,000 annual passes sold at $250 each to DVC member families. That's 55 million Dollars. This $250AP price reflects about a $75 discount on the non resident ap renewal rate. That discount cuts into our margin by 16.5 million, we should have collected 71.5 million.
Now let's say though that these families now spend 4 additional days in our parks each year spending $100 each day. That's 55,000 x $400 = $22,000,000. That 16.5 million discount is offset by a 22 million increase in park spending a net gain of$5.5 million dollars assuming our park expenses are covered by the discounted pass. ..."

Boss(me): First of all not everyone will buy every year, some DVC people bank and borrow and come every other year or go to VB or HH, or exchange, etc, that cuts your numbers...Second, we here at Disney pride ourselves on giving away as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE as we part the public from their money... APs are too valuable to give away 365 days for the price of 8 when we can give away MUCH LESS...Let's take that 10 day pass idea of mine and sell it for the same price as a 5 day pass(?$230)without the wter parks-- Now this pass is only good for 10 consecutive days after 1st use-but we advertise it at double the value- "10 days for the price of 5!" Of course we at Disney know that it is not double since those 5 Park Hopper days are good forever but we don't care, -we get the same money ($230) and it is for the person that doesn't intend to spend more than 5 days in the park unless you push/draw them in. They think "wow I was going to only go into the parks for 3 or 4 days and spend my food money etc at Disney only those days and the other days elsewhere, now I get 5 "free" days I will go in the parks more...Of course we say that we got them into the park when they weren't going to come anyway, we keep them on property away from the competion for most of those 10 days and they need a new ticket next time as opposed to using the remaining days on their hoppers...People will buy this even if they only stay 7 days (2 "free days!") Of course when they come back with my pass they need a new ticket! I (As Disney exec not me) would favor this approach over giving away the AP's...
If they want water park use they will go to the plus passes but some people don't want water parks or only want one day at a water park so they actually may spend one of those 10 days and BUY a separate water park admission for a day! Now we really are ahead as they give us more of their money and we have given away very little-which, after all is what is all about!

Paul

 

[vernon]

Paul ( In your guise as boss)
Disney already believes it can turn a profit on the passes it offers Florida residents. This would be adding a quarter of a million people to that program, who are all Disney visitors.

With the greatest respect, sir, the US is in a recession, people have less to spend and are being more careful to make sure they get value for money, park numbers are down, park income is down , park profits are down ( all under your stewardship sir) . These are ALL projected to continue in that downward curve. Simply saying "we've never had to do it before" doesn't cut the mustard, we have to be pro-active, we have to get people back into the parks, back onto Disney property and spending their money here not at Universal. Because if WE don't do something, someone else will.

By the way Sir, Mr Eisner usually starts his cutbacks with the unproductive "sit on my backside, this is how we've always done it and produce no new ideas" upper management. I have Universal's number if you need it LOL

 

[spruce]

No Boss, I think we should give these loyal customers something of real value instead of trying to trick them with smoke and mirrors. Remember how our $750 DVC (4 of the next 5 years) pass was rejected? These customers are our most loyal. The Fla program is to keep a steady stream of locals coming back and back. We Know these DVC owners are coming back too but they have invested a lot of money, so we know they have money to spend. I don't think we'll see much of this DVC group sneaking into health clubs, parking lots and pools to get something for free which some of our already biggest discounted customers do if they've even paid at all.
Boss, give them something of real value, in the long run, the rewards will be greater with happy customers....spruce

 

[baileybrad]

PKS44,
Another point to keep in mind, is what more and more DVC members are starting to do.....they are entering the parks less, not necessarily even buying APs since the ending of the renewal discount did away with the grace period between AP activations. That makes it much harder to get in multiple trips unless you have a ton of points or live very close by (FL residents this is a bonus you have that most out-of-staters don't). More and more members are going to visit the parks less and spend less money by doing other things that do not require a $50 pop and rising to visit a park that they may have grown tired of touring on a regular basis but would really enjoy a nice sitdown (Epcot countries) meal. I understand that the Florida DVC owners feel that they are not receiving any value-added if out-of-state owners received the FL resident match. And frankly, that is true. I understand that the state of FL stretches a long way but the one bonus that many you have is the before mentioned perk/ability of being able to make shorter and more frequent visits. I think many have discussed in the past that FL residents with their ability to visit more often are one of the major reasons that weekend points are so high.

 

[SueOKW]

I am very much enjoying this discussion. For the last 25 years of my life I have been "typically American". Now I find myself "typical DVC". Great thoughts everyone!

In the last 3 trips my only goal has been to avoid the parks and the spending associated with them as much as possible. Every year I get better and better, and my cash outlay decreases.

Good for me! (And good for my family of 5 - 3 kids that want to BUY, BUY, BUY!!)

Boss - you want my discretionary vacation bucks? Entice me.

Sue

 

[PKS44]

Baileybrad: "Another point to keep in mind, is what more and more DVC members are starting to do.....they are entering the parks less, "

well this is precisely what my plan was trying to address. How to get those folks into the park...Obviously as the amateur that I am I have not fully studied or thought this outs as a few things have occurred to me:
As a Disney exec I would want to know a few things...what is the average length of a DVC stay? (easy to find out if you are an exec)
How many days are the DVC crowd spending money on the property? And how much?
(Both are easy to know-if charged to the room cards)

(not necessarily the parks because even if they don't go in the parks we (Disney) are ahead)

In fact since it costs less to run the malls and the restaurants than it does to staff and maintain those rides and shows maybe we do better if the DVC types stay out of the parks so long as they keep the $$$ inside WDW. How much does the admission price really cover towards the park expenses?

Given all that info-(and a real education in marketing instead of my simple stabs at it) I could fashion a marketing strategy. What I do understand is that the factor that leads to the FL state resident discounts has nothing to do with DVC... That is capturing a nearby market that can come and go easily, often and freely to WDW and surrounding attractions...DVC are not just loyal to return to WDW -if they don't they have wasted their money... They are coming whether we entice them or not...Happiness aside, (since we execs could not care less about happiness if it does not increase the bottom line this quarter or darn soon) what can I get out of those DVC'ers that I am not getting?

Now as I think about it I think a dining discount may be the best we can offer to keep 'em on property and paying US!

 

[Werner Weiss]

Assistant: "Boss, I see your advisors have presented a bunch of really good ideas, and that there's been interesting discussion."

Executive: "The message that's coming through loud a clear is that really makes sense to encourage DVC members to buy APs. They'll be much more likely to visit the parks daily, and, of course, to bring their wallets with them."

Assistant: "Wallets? Don't you mean their Resort IDs with which they charge all sorts of meals and purchases to their room?"

Executive: "Same thing. The way I now see it, some DVC members already buy APs, and a discount would mean less money from them. And some DVC members will never buy APs. But there's a group in the middle that isn't buying APs today. If we make APs more attractive to all DVC members, they'll join the ranks of AP-carrying DVC members spend their time -- and their money -- in our parks."

Assistant: "What about Lisa F's advice that we should allow DVC members to join the 'Disney Dining Experience' program that's currently open to Florida residents only?"

Executive: "That idea makes a lot of sense! We get $60 that's almost pure profit up front annually, and DVC members would feel they're getting bargains at our restaurants -- though our restaurants are still pricey and profitable, even at 20% off."

Assistant: "Would 'Disney Dining Experience' be unfair to DVC members who are also Florida residents? For that matter, would extending other Florida resident benefits be unfair to Florida DVCers?"

Executive: "Not at all. They would merely qualify two different ways. If they ever move out of Florida or sell their DVC points, they'd still qualify, unlike other folks who only qualify in one way."

Keep the good ideas, win-win business propositions, and good discussion coming!

 

[prplcrzy]

Hey Boss, I just had a great idea! What if we offered annual passes at a discount if paid up fron in advance? We could offer 5% off for each year the annual pass was purchased up to 50% off for 10 years. This gives them the oppertunity to save money, and I don't think that toomany people would take advantage of it because of it's expense. This is how it would work-

If you purchased multiple years in advance you would get 5% off each additional year up to 50% for 10 years-


For example

Year 1 - $370 x 95%=$351.50
Year 2 - $370 x 90%=$333.00
Year 3 - $370 x 85%=$314.50
Year 4 - $296.00
.....
Year 10- $185.00

Total pass - $2682.50

Average pass price $268.25 for adults

The effective average pass price goes up if they purchase less years. We give them the option to finance it and we make our money back on the financing. If they pay cash, we get all of that money upfront to do with what we like.

The actual discount we would give them would be a maximum of 27.5 % and actually would probably be greater because not everyone would take the full 10 year pass.

We would have the advantage of having that money upfront and reinvesting it anyway that we could to maximize the effective yeild on that money, even use it to build a new park without having to borrow the money.

Even if 25% of all DVC members took advantage of this discount it would give us $40 million cash right now or whenever a member thought it was worth purchasing. This program provides us constant revenues, and if the prices go up so does the final cost of their pass if they purchase after price increases.

This is a win/win/win situation for all of us. We give them the discount they are dying for, we get plenty of cash upfront for admissions, and they are locked in to passes and vacationing here for the next ten years and can't double up on passes.

Marketing can have a field day with this because they can advertise it as "find out how you could save as much as 50% on park admissions, the new DVC discount program available to members only. You locked your vacation costs in, now lock you pass cost too with tremendous discounts. Contact your vacation guide for more information on this new, exciting program."

Just a thought...

 

[prplcrzy]

Can I have a raise now?

 

[PKS44]

prplcrzy: "I don't think that too many people would take advantage of it because of it's expense. "

Therein lies the problem, I think your estimate of 25% is too high and even there you don't "give them the discount they are dying for" since very few will want it or get it...The idea is only a little different than the 5 days for 4 of 5 years which did not fly apparently at a cost of $750..Here you have unlimited days each year and pre-pay $750 for about 2 years only...I don't think you are ready for that raise yet...We need to know the average DVC length of stay-then we exploit that info to make them want to stay on property but not necesarily at the parks...this is the crux of the strategy in those ridiculous "packages" Disney sells in abundance -bundling things that you don't really want (pins, books, 3 full sit downmeals a day)or can't use (golf) or if you do use them you can't use some other part, (while you go get your picture taken you are out of the parks not riding/wearing down the rides)...and all the while you paid for a full day at the parks! Even the partial days you arrived and the day you leave! This is Disney's modus operandi...now maybe these DVC types are too savvy to be taken like SO MANY others are-but Disney does not really discount-it gives more value...I know, people have said we have to change the way we (Disney) think and operate...it won't happen until there is a huge change...I just don't think that these AP discounts will generate the needed kick in the profits we are seeking...Discounting AP's in any of the suggested ways will probably not help us (Disney)...The number of increased AP's if discounted probably won't offset the decrease money we make in the APs we already sell to DVC. I like getting the money now for something we don't give until later. I like discounting stuff that is way overpriced and that people are underusing anyway. That's why I like the Discount Dining Experience for DVCers best of the options suggested so far...Also more shopping discounts at the nonpark stores...Until someone shows me how getting the DVCers into the parks more for less money than they spend now will increase ON PROPERTY spending more than it would be anyway I don't see park passes as a viable discountable item...Those pesky DVCers will get in for less and ride our rides increase our needs for maintenance and crowd out the day visitors. I (not really me) would rather DVCers stay out of the parks but in the resorts and Downtown, let us sell more passes at a higher per day price and increase revenues in both admission revenues and nonadmission revenues...AP are to get people in who might not come back to the PROPERTY at all. We already have the DVCers coming back...Maybe some sort of tie in with the restaurants-eat a meal (entree) in EPCOT 5 times and get a discount off admission... something like that?

Paul (amateur executive)

 

[prplcrzy]

I'm sorry Paul, I thought I was supposed to think like a Disney Exec., not a DVCer looking for a discount. That was the whole point to offer a discount that little or none would take while being able to say they offered up to 50% off park passes. Isn't that what they do now??? So in Disney's eyes, wouldn't I get that raise?

 

[PKS44]

I thought the point was to increase the bottom line, profits. That is to squeeze some more total dough out of the DVCers while trading them something that they want (in this case discounted admissions or some enticement into the parks)

My brother is a vp of marketing for a major magazine and I always wondered what the heck he does all day...playing this game gives me a new appreciation for the work done by him and so many others trying to please everyone yet raking in the dough somehow in the end...

My last rambling about the eating in the parks/admission connection has some real possibilities...You get a card that is punched everytime YOU (not someone else) eat an entree in a sitdown in the parks restaurant...where food is marked up a lot already...Five punches and you get one free day admission or a $50discount off a hopper or AP or something like that...
You gotta go into the park to get to the restaurant, you gotta spend for the 5 or 10 meals you gotta eat with others who may or may not be doing the same thing and you will be back when you use your discount to buy your next admission media ... A frequent flyer sort of program....

"Save $10 off admissions everytime you eat in a WDW park restaurant!" *

* See guide for eligible restaurants and details."

Well, Mr Eisner?

 

[prplcrzy]

I work in the restaurant business and the frequent cards only work when you give something away that really doesn't cost anything. Buy 10 cups of coffee get one free! What they count on is that you don't just buy coffee. And if you do just buy coffee, coffee doesn't cost anything. I thing your idea has some merit, it would be the details that would be interesting. To be honest, I think they would give away food, and they really don't need to do that. The lines for food look pretty long to me when I go. The pass idea would generate revenue if it was accepted. I don't think that it is a great discount, but think about it for a minute. You could successfully market it, and if you did you would make money. If I bought 10 years of passes and then decided to go somewhere else, bank points etc. they still got my money. I currently buy an AP and get two years for the price of one. If those park passes go up I pay more. If my plans change for various reasons I only get one year out of my current plan and I am back to square one. This would guarantee me admissions for 10 years and I would be in effect getting almost the same discount as Florida residents. I would go to the parks with out giving it a thought and they have programmed me into a certain way of vacationing over a certain period of time. They get my cash upfront, which I'm sure they could put to good use. It is a program that is simple to track, easy to administer and requires no thought what so ever. You can't cheat the system.

Whether I would actually buy it or not, I don't know, but if I did I probably would not visit other Orlando attractions as much as I do now because I already paid for these passes.

This program keeps the current profit structure in tact for the parks, and could actually increase pass sales(per unit, per year) and increase park visits kind of like coupons do for restaurants. They don't make out on the check they offered the coupon on, but the increase in sales they got from running the coupon offset the cost of it and actually increased net sales which has a direct bearing on profit.

If you check out the poll I had a month ago on how do you buy passes when you go to the world? on Docs poll listings, AP's are by far the most popular form of pass sold to DVCers.

Would the new discount system be well received by DVC members, I don't know. Would it cost WDW to try it, not really. Would it increase park visits, if the program was successful, I think so. Would that increase profits, yes.

It would be interesting to see if it would be something that would be considered, you wouldn't have to buy 10 years, only as many as you want and that would give you a predetermined discount rate on the passes. Oh, and they get the money upfront, why do you think they like DVC so much? They get the money upfront.

 

[vernon]

Nothing wrong with the concept of pre paying park tickets but in order to sell them ( particularly to people like DVC members who should understand the time/value aspect of money) it would need to be better value than you laid out. 5% discount per year is less than people would expect to earn on an investment or on what they'd have to pay to borrow the money. In effect at 5% you're paying more for your APs than you would be if you invested the money and paid if/when you needed the passes. Given the formula for DVC points, the tickets would need to be discounted by about 3 times the amount you were working on to be close to offering value.

Even then you run into the problems of people not wanting to commit that far ahead. It isn't like , as in the case of DVC accomodation , you could exchange your WDW park ticket for a ski pass in Aspen if you fancy a change that year. I can't see it working because of that reason EVEN if financially it looked a decent offer.

 

[PKS44]

Vernon (and prplcrzy) say the same thing regarding prepaying the passes discount --it is not that great a discount. I pretty much agree with everything vernon said about the drawbacks...

Prplcrzy also made mention that "they would give away food, and they really don't need to do that. The lines for food look pretty long to me when I go" I think this is besides the point...It is not important if food lines are long or short, it all would depend on profit margins...which generates more money? Selling a $50/day admission against a cost of ???? to run the nonrevenue-returning-park -parts or selling a dollar worth of food for $20? I would guess that margins are best for food and merchandise. Of course admissions generate food and merchandise purchases so it is a much more complex equation, not either/or...

I am not surprised that a majority of those DVCers polled use AP's. Florida is a large base for DVC to begin with so that skews the numbers...Also if most are already using AP's why discount them for the minority who are not? That is likely to only bring in a few new AP users and decrease the profits being made on all those currently paying the higher price. Again as an exec I hope as a Disney stockholder that thye have info on what they are getting out of DVCers and what is left to get and how they might shake out those last few pennies...I tend to doubt admissions discounts (at least as I have seen them suggested here) are the answer.

Paul

 

[nickglover]

1, $10 admission to Epcot after 6pm, with DVC card.

2. 20% off all Disney restaurants.

3. 15% off all Disney merchandise in the parks.

Even with these discounts, I think they would make more money.

We like most Disney restaurants, but we often eat elsewhere because the prices are on the high-end, across the board, for the meals received.
Evening admission to Epcot after 6pm would encourage more Epcot dining and expenditures.
Also, decent discounts on merchandise would lead to more sales - enough to offset the discounts at the very least. We typically buy very little or nothing at the Disney stores in the parks, because the prices are much higher than the merchandise is worth. There are exceptions.

Include a coupon for one free round of mini-golf, upon check-in. All others pay.

 

[bicker]

Hmmmm... "Think" isn't as good as "know." Personally, a $10 after 6pm admission to Epcot would prompt me to buy one less day of admission, and spend my first day getting settled in, arriving at Epcot at 6pm. So Disney loses $40 on that deal. A 20% discount on restaurants would lead me to eat at one more restaurant per week than usual. Disney makes nothing on the deal, and ends up having to pay the cost of ingredients and servers for one additional diner. (And so on...)

 

[vernon]

Brian , I think you'll find you're in a shrinking minority that don't go off site. I'm sure Disney appreciates there are still people that do vacation like that, but their task IMHO is to lure back the greater number that spend money off site.

 

[bicker]

Of course, and good managers watch those numbers very carefully and take action when they need to, not before.

 

[KLR-wlv]

Does Disney just assume since DVC'ers are on property they are going to the parks? Is there a way to break this down? I know park admission is the biggest concern cost-wise for us (since lodging is paid) and we're definitely trying out US/IOA this coming trip (3 days for $85 is sure a better deal than Disney) And saying that Disney would be out $ if we had a discount on after 4 at Epcot since we'd go there the first night instead of paying full admission - well I would never waste an admission on 1/2 a day at Epcot, so they are getting $10 plus food/souvenirs that they wouldn't have gotten at all...but that is how Disney execs must think, so it's an appropriate comment for this thread!