Price increase show discussion

[maltdizzy]

Let's not get caught in a loop of parking fees.

They are just one example of a growing number of fees and up-sells are being charged just to increase the profit margin without providing any additional service or incurring any additional capital expense. Plus, the very obvious, and unnecessary, austerity measures that are not intended to maintain profit margins, but intended to keep growing them.

I think just about everyone can come up with their own examples. They've been very blatant over the last 5 years or so. They looked at the record spending people had done at Disney Parks ever since the recession ended and said ... how much more money is out there?

But they are losing the battle of optics. People were willing to spend more money at WDW because they perceived they received so much more attention in return (if they were or not is irrelevant). Now more are filling nickel-and-dimed on excessive fees with nothing to show for it. And more are seeing less entertainment, less service, less magic for more money. They probably would ignore inflationary pricing if they felt the quality was maintained.

 

[Miffy]

I'm reading this thread and I started thinking about all the conveniences and services and amenities that're present at WDW resorts. Things that aren't charged for separately but that could possibly be. Services and amenities that some people use but others don't or don't use as much.

For example:
(1) Water. Take a long shower? Pay for it. Just put your credit card in the slot next to the faucet. $3 for an extra 5 minutes. Ditto with washing your face, brushing your teeth, etc. Exceed a certain time limit and pay.
(2) A/C and heating: Want it? Pay for it. The thermostat will respond to your manipulation only if you pay a fee. If not, you get the temperature the resort has decided comes with the room.
(3) Visits to balcony. You are creating wear and tear on the balcony. Every time you open the balcony door and step outside, you will automatically get charged a fee. No need to present your credit card. The fee is automatically added to your bill.
(4) Towels. Use more than one and pay. Towels are in a locked cabinet and can be accessed only with your credit card. Think you can take out more than one at a time? The machine weighs the towels and knows exactly what you've extracted. Kind of like a pay-for-it minifridge, only with towels.
(5) TV. I mean, I never watch TV at WDW. Why should I pay for the maintenance of TVs in the room? TV should operate by credit card.
(6) Go in and out of your room more than twice a day? Each additional entry/exit will be charged accordingly. Your Magic Band will automatically record the charges.
(7) Swimming pool. Pay for use. Ditto hot tub.
(8) Doors to outdoor viewing areas at AKL: Operate by a fee charged to your MB.

My point is that not everyone uses the same services or conveniences or amenities at their resort. Does this mean that they should be charged less? Or that using these services, etc., should incur a separate fee?

For those of you who're not happy about paying for DME, which you don't use, try the rest of these ideas on for size and see what you think. WDW decided to offer DME as a service to their guests. Maybe they'll start charging for it one day--apparently many of you think they should--but currently they do not. If you don't use this service, it's just like any other service at your hotel that you don't use.

For the record, I rarely use DME, so don't think that I'm advocating for its continuance as a free service because it's one I use. I don't. Furthermore, I haven't used a pool at WDW in years and have never used a hot tub. Yet I don't begrudge the fact that other resort guests who do use them are paying the same room rate I am.

 

[Brianstl]

I'm reading this thread and I started thinking about all the conveniences and services and amenities that're present at WDW resorts. Things that aren't charged for separately but that could possibly be. Services and amenities that some people use but others don't or don't use as much.

For example:
(1) Water. Take a long shower? Pay for it. Just put your credit card in the slot next to the faucet. $3 for an extra 5 minutes. Ditto with washing your face, brushing your teeth, etc. Exceed a certain time limit and pay.
(2) A/C and heating: Want it? Pay for it. The thermostat will respond to your manipulation only if you pay a fee. If not, you get the temperature the resort has decided comes with the room.
(3) Visits to balcony. You are creating wear and tear on the balcony. Every time you open the balcony door and step outside, you will automatically get charged a fee. No need to present your credit card. The fee is automatically added to your bill.
(4) Towels. Use more than one and pay. Towels are in a locked cabinet and can be accessed only with your credit card. Think you can take out more than one at a time? The machine weighs the towels and knows exactly what you've extracted. Kind of like a pay-for-it minifridge, only with towels.
(5) TV. I mean, I never watch TV at WDW. Why should I pay for the maintenance of TVs in the room? TV should operate by credit card.
(6) Go in and out of your room more than twice a day? Each additional entry/exit will be charged accordingly. Your Magic Band will automatically record the charges.
(7) Swimming pool. Pay for use. Ditto hot tub.
(8) Doors to outdoor viewing areas at AKL: Operate by a fee charged to your MB.

My point is that not everyone uses the same services or conveniences or amenities at their resort. Does this mean that they should be charged less? Or that using these services, etc., should incur a separate fee?

For those of you who're not happy about paying for DME, which you don't use, try the rest of these ideas on for size and see what you think. WDW decided to offer DME as a service to their guests. Maybe they'll start charging for it one day--apparently many of you think they should--but currently they do not. If you don't use this service, it's just like any other service at your hotel that you don't use.

For the record, I rarely use DME, so don't think that I'm advocating for its continuance as a free service because it's one I use. I don't. Furthermore, I haven't used a pool at WDW in years and have never used a hot tub. Yet I don't begrudge the fact that other resort guests who do use them are paying the same room rate I am.

I don't think the people complaining about there not being a charge for ME realize that if they started charging for ME, that would create a higher demand for resort parking. That demand would lead to higher parking fees.

 

[SoarinSC]

Haven't been priced out so far, but we always do the value resorts so that helps. We have a trip coming up in January that will be our first while on keto. We've been keto since April so it's going to be interesting how that goes. I definitely see a reduction in food expenses if we can resist the urges and stay on it the whole week.

 

[JERSEY8CAR]

I think this last round of increases was a breaking point for a number of people (if not to end trips at the very least have a significant impact on how often they go, for how long, etc.)

and I think this for a few reasons:
- Just $ wise it was a significant increase, especially for annual passes. Plus the onsite hotels keep going up and up
- Came after the adding of parking fees at resorts which rubbed people the wrong way
- They added more complications with having different prices depending on what day your vacation starts
- This is all on top of more and more upcharge events, (at least somewhat) shorter park hours, more hard ticket events, etc. ..... not to mention sharp increases in food prices, especially buffets, over the past 5 years or so

I just think a lot of people feel a trip to Disney isn't as good as it used to be (less of the Disney "magic", not as consistently good CMs (I still feel there are a ton of amazing ones but you hear more negative storeis - I am sure Social Media doesn't help), more crowds (until recently) etc.... and then on top of it the prices went up so much

So just a feeling of getting less for more money and now not worth it. Also the dollar has increased in value making international travel "cheaper" for us - but also made going to WDW more expensive for those not in the U.S.

I believe you're spot on with this last round of increases. Disney hit the Breaking Point. As a DVC owner with a family of four and Annual Passes, we would visit WDW twice a year. Now with this last price increase to the AP, I'm not renewing our AP in the future. Pete Werner hit the nail on the head during the Price increase pod cast show.


Hopefully one of the Bob's at Disney is listening to Pete!!!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But you have the option to use that amenity (and others).

ME for those that don't fly in, subsidize it's costs via the resort rate(s) right? I don't have the option to tell Disney I'm driving to stay at their resort and want a reduced rate because I'm not using ME. Instead, they actually charge us (probably to help pay for ME). So if I extrapolate this rationale forward, those that drive to WDW and stay onsite, are partially paying for those guests that are flying in and using the ME, yet don't have an option to use that service.

it comes down to what Disney is trying to achieve. They want their guests "trapped" on property so they don't want you to have a car. So by providing ME that brings you to property and takes you back, no need to ever step foot off property That is what they want. If you have a car, much easier for you to go off property and spend money on non-Disney owned things

So ME helps them achieve what they want = no extra/separate cost
Having a car is not what they want = paying extra

 

[maltdizzy]

For those of you who're not happy about paying for DME, which you don't use, try the rest of these ideas on for size and see what you think. WDW decided to offer DME as a service to their guests. Maybe they'll start charging for it one day--apparently many of you think they should--but currently they do not. If you don't use this service, it's just like any other service at your hotel that you don't use.

That's not what's being said. Nowhere in this thread did anyone propose this was either "us vs. them" between guests or "we're paying for you so you should pay for us." I doubt any driver here is actually views their hotel stay as subsidizing someone else's ME ride anymore more than any rider ever viewed their room as subsidizing someone else's parking in the past. Nor is anyone here actually suggesting Disney should charge a fee for the ME (but we all know they could and might one day). It was merely an equivalent to draw correlation and relate a fee in a way of which most guests would be sympathetic.

Let's not confuse the example with the overall issue we are illustrating. We aren't arguing which hotel fees are fair to whom. The parking fee was one example where Disney is charging extra for something that used to be inclusive in the base price ... while raising the base price as well ... while cutting labor and service ... despite what were already record profits per guest.

 

[disneysteve]

despite what were already record profits per guest

I think this is the point that sticks in everyone's mind. If a business is struggling, they should seek ways to improve their bottom line so that they can stay in business. If, however, a business is doing better than ever, maybe continuing to do everything you can to milk every last dollar out of your customers isn't a great long term plan. It might work for a while but you run the real risk of hitting a point where you've gone too far.

 

[YesterDark]

The whole ME vs Parking Fees is a bad argument.

For Disney:
Like Max said, ME keeps you on property. ME reduces traffic on property. ME reduces costs of infrastructure upkeep and expansion needs.

For You:
You're happy you get a trip to and from the airport "included" in your vacation package.

It's now become a ritual for a lot of people. Getting on that bus at the airport is like the start of your vacation. If they start charging for it, it'll be a $10 fee somewhere or something similar.

 

[hertamaniac]

I know that if we were given the option to park, for free at MCO, and take the ME to our resort, it would be well received. This accomplishes the "trapped" on WDW property criteria, but allows folks driving to utilize the service that they are, I think, paying for at the resort rates.

 

[Brianstl]

I know that if we were given the option to park, for free at MCO, and take the ME to our resort, it would be well received. This accomplishes the "trapped" on WDW property criteria, but allows folks driving to utilize the service that they are, I think, paying for at the resort rates.

You aren't paying for the service. The system saves Disney money. It is cheaper for them to transport the arriving guest than it would be to build out facilities and staff needed to handle them all showing up on their own. Disney doesn't have to pay for the infrastructure to handle thousands of more cars a day, the people needed for traffic control, the added insurance cost of having those vehicles on property, etc..

 

[hertamaniac]

You aren't paying for the service. The system saves Disney money. It is cheaper for them to transport the arriving guest than it would be to build out facilities and staff needed to handle them all showing up on their own. Disney doesn't have to pay for the infrastructure to handle thousands of more cars a day, the people needed for traffic control, the added insurance cost of having those vehicles on property, etc..

So you're saying that the resort rates don't help subsidize the ME?

 

[disneysteve]

You aren't paying for the service. The system saves Disney money. It is cheaper for them to transport the arriving guest than it would be to build out facilities and staff needed to handle them all showing up on their own.

You're assuming that before ME, everyone drove themselves. I don't think that's true. Before ME, folks took a Mears shuttle or a taxi or some other shuttle service. ME allowed Disney to capture that business and that income and of course they rolled that cost into the room fees.

There is a reason why onsite room rates have skyrocketed over the years while offsite prices have stayed relatively the same. You're paying for ME. You're paying for the monorail. You're paying for those new buses. You're paying for the Skyliner. It's all worked into the cost of a room somehow.

 

[Brianstl]

You're assuming that before ME, everyone drove themselves. I don't think that's true. Before ME, folks took a Mears shuttle or a taxi or some other shuttle service. ME allowed Disney to capture that business and that income and of course they rolled that cost into the room fees.

There is a reason why onsite room rates have skyrocketed over the years while offsite prices have stayed relatively the same. You're paying for ME. You're paying for the monorail. You're paying for those new buses. You're paying for the Skyliner. It's all worked into the cost of a room somehow.

There is an infrastructure cost added for every additional bus, cab, uber or lyft that comes on to the property. It isn't just a parking issue. The ability of Disney to pool and time the arrivals of guest from the airport allows Disney to reduce infrastructure and staff cost.

 

[disneysteve]

There is an infrastructure cost added for every additional bus, cab, uber or lyft that comes on to the property. It isn't just a parking issue. The ability of Disney to pool and time the arrivals of guest from the airport allows Disney to reduce infrastructure and staff cost.

So where do the Minnie Vans fit?. They are replacing cabs, Ubers, and Lyfts, and yet Disney is charging a huge premium to use them, 3-4 times as much as the other options. If they save Disney money, why aren't they the same price or less? Oh, maybe it's because they haven't rolled the cost into resort pricing. It is a stand alone service.

I just don't believe that Disney is providing ME and not passing that cost on to the guests. It has to cost them a small fortune to run that fleet of buses.

 

[mcd2745]

You're assuming that before ME, everyone drove themselves. I don't think that's true. Before ME, folks took a Mears shuttle or a taxi or some other shuttle service. ME allowed Disney to capture that business and that income and of course they rolled that cost into the room fees.

We still do, as I believe Mears actually operates DME.

 

[disneysteve]

We still do, as I believe Mears actually operates DME.

I believe that's true, except instead of you paying Mears directly, you're now paying indirectly through higher hotel rates.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

Seeing the intelligent discussion on this topic, I am going to amend my previous post about being surprised they haven't been charging for ME a LONG time ago. Yes - I meant as a "stand alone" cost, blatantly listed out there, like resort parking, not just folded into the room cost - which - course - I pretty much knew they were doing all along.

Just depends whether it's an OVERT money grab, or a COVERT one.

And not quire sure which irritates and insults me the worst - being openly pillaged, or being treated like a blissfully ignorant fool. Color me cynical and jaded either way.

 

[disneysteve]

Just depends whether it's an OVERT money grab, or a COVERT one.

It's been my experience that most people prefer covert ones because they just don't see what it is they are being charged for every little thing. There's a reason why the DIsney Dining Plan is so popular even though it ends up costing the average family more money than if they paid for their meals out of pocket. And don't even talk about the "free dining" promotion where you pay full rack rate for your room in the process. People like paying one fee and being done, even if it would turn out cheaper to break it all down individually.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

It's been my experience that most people prefer covert ones because they just don't see what it is they are being charged for every little thing. There's a reason why the DIsney Dining Plan is so popular even though it ends up costing the average family more money than if they paid for their meals out of pocket. And don't even talk about the "free dining" promotion where you pay full rack rate for your room in the process. People like paying one fee and being done, even if it would turn out cheaper to break it all down individually.

Ayep, agree! And I will also say that, in the past, whenever I could, I DID use the DDP, and loved it for the CONVENIENCE, but knew it was probably not SAVING me any money. But again, it's WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY done, and accepted, by me.