Recent & Rumored Changes Turning Me Off

[Marionnette]

That is the new contraption for the new Epcot fireworks show. It's ugly as hell and looks worse in person

 

[MissSha]

View attachment 598192

Right? What the??? Why? Who?? How come? I could have done better!!!

 

[CJGamer]

so the snap back reaction from everyone for any change is usually negative. People love additions without subtraction. But replacing something or dropping it is always looked at as a negative. Not just this- but most things in life.

But things change. Inflation changes as well. We have been going to WDW for 20 years. In those 20 years the value of my home has over doubled. The cost of my similar cars has doubled. I go to a lot of concerts. Those have doubled. Sports tickets the same. I also have a lot more assets and income than I did 20 years ago. I'll gladly triple or more today than I would 20 years ago. As long as I'm getting a quality product.
We did 15 days this past summer. 1 Seaworld, 4 Universal, and 10 Disney. Last summer- we did a week after park reopening 10 day trip. These were without a doubt the best WDW trips of our lives for multiple reasons. This summer- things were busy again, but no fast passes was possibly the biggest step up I've ever seen. Not only do the lines move quickly now....but time wise- the amount of time you save because you aren't criss crossing the park for FP times is huge. You start where you want and ride what you want. You also find sometimes change is a lot better. The character stuff now- random pop ups doing things rather than standing in a spot for meet and greets is so much better. How much time did we waste with 4 year olds for a picture with a character, and now you walk over and see Pooh in the grass, or Goofy fishing and get a few shots with your kid and move on? you just saved 45 minutes of waiting in line for that same thing. Time you can use doing something else. I hope all that stays. Same with the calvicades over parades. Quick- see stuff, move on.

20 years later- I want better and I pay for better. It is what it is.

nit picking things like new fireworks shows or rides changing etc is stuff that has to happen- they can't stay stagnant. It's like ppl who won't go to a football game anymore because their favorite player got traded. Move on.

If I have one major complaint though- it is this. PPL that are willing to spend a lot more- IE, staying at the deluxe resorts- should get some major perk like the do at Universal. An hour here or there is not much of a perk. It's a convenience- but not a major perk like we get at the Hard Rock or other 2 UO deluxe resorts that make staying there a no brainer. Maybe a free lightning line (or 2) per day with a stay there or something similar?

But everyone gets to have their own opinion. I get that. If less people go- it also makes the experience better for those that do. Addition by subtraction.

 

[shh]

I also have a lot more assets and income than I did 20 years ago.

It's important to note that many can't claim the same. Wages for employees - particularly in the public sector - have stagnated: many in my family haven't even seen a miniscule 1-2% cost of living increase in years - their wages were frozen- as the cost of everything skyrockets.

Not saying that WDW is a right - it's a luxury. But far too many families work very hard, yet are still priced out of everything these days - from sporting events and concerts to theme parks to even dining out - unless they want to rack up the credit card debt - which many do. It's sad.

 

[hsmamato2]

I agree. It has become way too complicated to plan a trip and the Covid issues have increased that 10 fold. I'm losing interest and I used to really enjoy planning our trips. Not anymore.

Same....and I'll admit, nostalgia for "what was" makes me a little sad in all of this, but I have lost interest in a currently visiting,and I fear it may be permanent. I disliked a lot of the FP+ and app nonsense that overly complicated a vacation, and what I see happening now (online reports) is making me even more sad that I don't think the younger gen. of our family will get to experience what we did,what we wanted to share with them,but now thinking it's just not going to happen.
The cost is one aspect,for sure. Our fam actually HAS the $$ to spend there, but we just don't want to waste it. And as the years have passed,and the experiences that we used to have just by holding a ticket and entering the park have dwindled to a mere fraction of what they used to be- all of this is contributing to what I'm sad about. I'm sad b/c we now feel a nostalgic pull toward something that no longer exists,and no, we have no plans to return.
So no, we're not willing to waste our money or time on a subpar experience based on nostalgia. There are far too many vacations to be taken to waste time here at the moment. I'm still very interested in what's going on at WDW,as I guess I'm always hoping for better....

 

[TheBigErn]

Same....and I'll admit, nostalgia for "what was" makes me a little sad in all of this, but I have lost interest in a currently visiting,and I fear it may be permanent. I disliked a lot of the FP+ and app nonsense that overly complicated a vacation, and what I see happening now (online reports) is making me even more sad that I don't think the younger gen. of our family will get to experience what we did,what we wanted to share with them,but now thinking it's just not going to happen.
The cost is one aspect,for sure. Our fam actually HAS the $$ to spend there, but we just don't want to waste it. And as the years have passed,and the experiences that we used to have just by holding a ticket and entering the park have dwindled to a mere fraction of what they used to be- all of this is contributing to what I'm sad about. I'm sad b/c we now feel a nostalgic pull toward something that no longer exists,and no, we have no plans to return.
So no, we're not willing to waste our money or time on a subpar experience based on nostalgia. There are far too many vacations to be taken to waste time here at the moment. I'm still very interested in what's going on at WDW,as I guess I'm always hoping for better....

Right. Too much reliance on your phone. I don't need to be looking at my phone all day.

 

[CJGamer]

It's important to note that many can't claim the same. Wages for employees - particularly in the public sector - have stagnated: many in my family haven't even seen a miniscule 1-2% cost of living increase in years - their wages were frozen- as the cost of everything skyrockets.

Not saying that WDW is a right - it's a luxury. But far too many families work very hard, yet are still priced out of everything these days - from sporting events and concerts to theme parks to even dining out - unless they want to rack up the credit card debt - which many do. It's sad.

I agree completely. However, people who havn't seen increased wages in 20 years are not the target market for any entertainment company. In general, family wealth has increased dramatically over the last 20 years.

That said- (I'm a financial planner by trade) and those public sector workers may not make much more than the did previously, but as they retire, their free cash flow is much higher than many others because of pensions on top of social security. It's interesting as I help many of those same workers who now have more income in retirement than they ever had- and ironically- are now taking these kinds of trips for the first time- that they couldn't afford before when they cost less!

 

[hsmamato2]

so the snap back reaction from everyone for any change is usually negative. People love additions without subtraction. But replacing something or dropping it is always looked at as a negative. Not just this- but most things in life.

But things change. Inflation changes as well. We have been going to WDW for 20 years. In those 20 years the value of my home has over doubled. The cost of my similar cars has doubled. I also have a lot more assets and income than I did 20 years ago.

Yeahhhhhh.....I can't agree with this 'logic'.... The cost of a WDW vacation is approximately 10x or more the price from 20 years ago,and we all know nothing else compares in terms of inflation over time..... Now I do agree with one thing,I'm at a point in my life where I truly don't mind paying more for better (food,experiences,clothes etc ) I have more $ than when I was younger. But I will not fall into the trap of paying SO. MUCH. MORE. for SO.MUCH.LESS. right now.
I clearly recall the ease of enjoyment at WDW over the years,which has been steadily trickling lower(yes that bothered me) to the level of where it is now- I can;t look at that as a good value for my $$$ or time. I was always more interested in the overall Disney experience than a few rides anyway,and I won't pay more for what no longer exists.

 

[PamNC]

The post about us being"yield" really struck me. Great post! Think about this - how many companies now call their customers "guests?" I hear it all the time at fast food, restaurants, retail, etc. Guess who started that term? Walt. Walt. Walt. Be Our Guest was the theme song for the first vacation planning video (or at least the first one I saw in the early 90's). The Disney Difference has always been the way guests were considered something special. Not a "yield." I'm a diehard - been going since the 70's. Go about twice a year now. I see a huge difference in the whole "guest" feel with all the money grabbing and cut backs. I am usually a party of one or two when I go nowadays and I can afford the trips. But if I had 4 or 5 kids, I just don't see how I could do it unless it was every 3-5 years maybe. I think Walt is turning over in his grave. I understand times are different and Disney is a business, I do... but I think they've gone a bit too far here.... yet - I'll still go. But I'm just me. A party of one.

 

[Bearval]

I often wonder what Walt would have felt about all of these experiences that cost families so much $$$. The after hours parties for the holidays alone could cost a family of 4 $1000 Christmas week on top of their park admission! Wasn't he all about NOT "nickel and diming" his guests? How did they go this far off the rails?

Look no further than who the largest shareholders are and the fact that compensation for the ones at the top are all based on share price and revenue generation.

 

[Bearval]

The post about us being"yield" really struck me. Great post! Think about this - how many companies now call their customers "guests?" I hear it all the time at fast food, restaurants, retail, etc. Guess who started that term? Walt. Walt. Walt. Be Our Guest was the theme song for the first vacation planning video (or at least the first one I saw in the early 90's). The Disney Difference has always been the way guests were considered something special. Not a "yield." I'm a diehard - been going since the 70's. Go about twice a year now. I see a huge difference in the whole "guest" feel with all the money grabbing and cut backs. I am usually a party of one or two when I go nowadays and I can afford the trips. But if I had 4 or 5 kids, I just don't see how I could do it unless it was every 3-5 years maybe. I think Walt is turning over in his grave. I understand times are different and Disney is a business, I do... but I think they've gone a bit too far here.... yet - I'll still go. But I'm just me. A party of one.

Back in Walt's day, most families had 3 or 4 children think about how much it will now cost for a Disney vacation for a family of 6!

 

[johnkerryP]

Back in Walt's day, most families had 3 or 4 children think about how much it will now cost for a Disney vacation for a family of 6!

How many american families have 4,5, or 6 kids these days? When I look around my peers (mid 30s), its one kid, or DINK. High income earners, now working remotely saving more money than ever. They also value spending money on experiences. The people I know in lower income tiers were nevee going to Disney anyway, it was never a priority for their family.
This may be a small perspective and skewed based on what I see only. But I think Disney has the data to know exactly what theyre doing, know the people are willing to pay for it, and they wont suffer pricing out the small segment who wont.

 

[ctl]

View attachment 598192

Is that fixture going to be permanently in the middle of the lagoon? If so, it is very ugly and unsightly.

 

[CJGamer]

How many american families have 4,5, or 6 kids these days? When I look around my peers (mid 30s), its one kid, or DINK. High income earners, now working remotely saving more money than ever. They also value spending money on experiences. The people I know in lower income tiers were nevee going to Disney anyway, it was never a priority for their family.
This may be a small perspective and skewed based on what I see only. But I think Disney has the data to know exactly what theyre doing, know the people are willing to pay for it, and they wont suffer pricing out the small segment who wont.

100%
like everything else, it's knowing your target market.
The other thing at the same time that's happened- is smaller regional parks have gotten much better. We live 30 minutes from Hersheypark. For what it is- it's fantastic. And a family of 4 can get annual passes for a total of $600.
Most of the other regional parks around are the same. That's a fantastic deal and a lot of fun. No- it's not disney- but it targets the part of the population that aren't in the situation to afford WDW or UO

 

[ctl]

How many american families have 4,5, or 6 kids these days? When I look around my peers (mid 30s), its one kid, or DINK. High income earners, now working remotely saving more money than ever. They also value spending money on experiences. The people I know in lower income tiers were nevee going to Disney anyway, it was never a priority for their family.
This may be a small perspective and skewed based on what I see only. But I think Disney has the data to know exactly what theyre doing, know the people are willing to pay for it, and they wont suffer pricing out the small segment who wont.

I am one of those American families. We have saved and gone to only WDW for our vacations since 1996 every single year. When we lived in Georgia we would go more than once a year as we could drive there easily. I saved and bought DVC 2 years ago. I have supported Disney not only in visiting but in buying their merchandise every single year. I will not pay for fast passes, I am considering selling my DVC , as the reduction in benefits for staying onsite is weakening the value of DVC.

 

[Eastern]

Is that fixture going to be permanently in the middle of the lagoon? If so, it is very ugly and unsightly.

Supposed to be a water fountain during the day so that will make it look better.

 

[johnkerryP]

I am one of those American families. We have saved and gone to only WDW for our vacations since 1996 every single year. When we lived in Georgia we would go more than once a year as we could drive there easily. I saved and bought DVC 2 years ago. I have supported Disney not only in visiting but in buying their merchandise every single year. I will not pay for fast passes, I am considering selling my DVC , as the reduction in benefits for staying onsite is weakening the value of DVC.

If you started going in 1996, because your first child was born shortly before that... id almost say they arent basing their prices off selling to you anymore, they are selling to them, their family (or future family), and their wallet.

 

[Heather1101]

We went to WDW in 2017 and DL in 2018. We usually go every year and went more than once a year when we lived 4 hours away and have been visiting the parks regularly since 1998. However, our WDW 2017 trip was just not the way we like to do the parks. I didn't like planning parks and FP's 90 days in advance and meals 180 days in advance. We like the freedom to change our minds each day. We have been so many times and 2017/2018 kind of lacked the joy and magic we used to feel. I haven't felt like planning another trip since then. I did attempt to plan in 2019 for May 2020(which we would have just cancelled because of Covid anyway) but the GF with military discount was going to cost us $5000 because all they would offer was Club Level with the discount. We like to stay on the monorail and have always had luck getting military discounts on garden/parking lot/pool view rooms and we were fine with that because usually our accumulated Visa Disney Dollars would pay for the majority of it, but $5000 for a room...no way. We never followed through on that vacation.

Fast forward to pre FP changes this week we were toying with going in February 2022 but I haven't been motivated to even bother planning because I know it's going to be a pain. I LOVE planning trips and organizing everything and Disney planning used to be a huge joy each year but not any more. Now with the new changes coming we have zero desire to plan anything because we could do something else cheaper than Disney at this point(we could do value resorts, quick service, and basic passes to save but we don't want to do that).

I just feel like the joy of planning a trip and going is gone...there is no simplicity anymore and the nickel and diming guest for every thing these days is getting to be too much. We have a lot of Disney dollars that have accumlated and will plan one last hurrah to spend those and say goodbye to Disney. We have enjoyed the early years with our kids and the baby is now 21 and grew up a Disney child, but there are so many other places we'd like to go for the money. Maybe we will be back for a visit in the distant future if we ever have grandbabies, but I am at peace leaving $Disney$ behind and cherishing all the memories we made over the last 20ish years.

 

[sbbwdw]

Since I started this thread on Monday, my fears have all been put to rest after yesterday’s announcement! Just kidding, feeling more of a nail in the coffin sort of vibe.

 

[junglecruiseheadhunt]

There will be a family in Disney next year. That family will be staying at a Disney resort, they Ubered from the airport, and bought a week's worth of tickets with Genie+ add on and tickets for an after hours party. They may have no idea about what Disney used to be like 10 years ago, and they don't care. Could be their first trip. Maybe they are not driving from Georgia for an annual vacation, but flew in from somewhere overseas for once in a lifetime trip. Maybe they couldn't care less about vintage attractions but really really love Star Wars. Maybe they are on their phone all the time anyway, so using more apps just feels natural. Maybe there is an absent, workaholic parent trying to buy their child's love with "the best vacation money can buy". Maybe dad is an executive for a tech firm and has heard good things about the great, one-of-a-kind experiences and food Disney offers these days (not like the "old days").

Maybe this family is totally different than your family. But Disney is banking on that fact that they will come, and they will fill the park just the same.