Recent & Rumored Changes Turning Me Off

[twincruisers]

I actually think pre-FP was the ideal setup as a guest. We all waited in the same lines and had next to no planning and had a great time without much of a fuss.

Things got worse with FP/FP+/MP as it required a project management certificate to optimize your day and made it half-work/half-play to get what you wanted done due to large crowds. The current setup with no FP reminds me a lot of the pre-FP days and I didn't mind it at all. Granted I only spent 2 days at DLR since re-opening, but besides the stress of getting a BG, it felt very much like the old days of walking up to a sign and seeing the wait time to decide what to do.

 

[cakebaker]

don't do parades, don't do many shows (the ones I do have been open), don't do dessert parties (did once, don't need to do again), don't do holiday parties (did once, don't need to do again, though the newer after hours events sound much more satisfying for me), don't stay at parks late so hours have had zero affect on me, usually decline housekeeping but don't mind not having it one bit, don't park hop typically

I can see why all the cutbacks wouldn't bother you then. But I'm fairly confident the vast majority of people do many of those things you don't do. It does give me some hope that I'm not the only one missing all those things., because outside of not doing the holiday parties anymore (much too crowded), we do all those things. Rides are almost secondary to me, probably explains why I refuse to stand in long lines for them. It's all the extras that make WDW special to me and virtually none of them are there.

I actually do agree the new offering for holidays sound much more enticing to me. I honestly don't care if they ever bring back the traditional parties- but then again, I understand how important they are to others.

 

[cakebaker]

I actually think pre-FP was the ideal setup as a guest.

The problem is, there are many, many more people visiting the parks now than there were over 20 years ago. What worked then, would not ( and isn't) working well now. I remember the pre FP days and I thought lines were long then, but nothing compared to what we saw on our trip a few weeks ago.

 

[twincruisers]

The problem is, there are many, many more people visiting the parks now than there were over 20 years ago. What worked then, would not ( and isn't) working well now. I remember the pre FP days and I thought lines were long then, but nothing compared to what we saw on our trip a few weeks ago.

100% agree, it would not scale to the number of guests today.

From another point of view, capping attendance when you couldn't handle it without doing something like FP is where I would say your daily attendance cap should be and raise the daily ticket price accordingly vs introducing FP and other variations to pack even more people. I'm probably an old-timer compared to the average Disney fan, but I get there are more younger people who want to experience the magic, but it will have to be different (e.g. more $$$$).

 

[PrestonatorSR]

Haven't followed this particular thread a ton. But as a 20-year park visitor, the loss of FP is a HUGE issue for me. We did it this summer and it was ok to endure one time--but the absence of FP is going to be a problem for the long-term.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

"But I'm fairly confident the vast majority of people do many of those things you don't do. "

If the majority are angry about these items being missing, and they are abandoning WDW in droves over it, why are the parks still crowded?

When international travel becomes a thing again, maybe that will be an issue for WDW, but by then all those things will probably be back (except maybe late hours and the previous incarnation of Fastpass).

 

[luv2cheer92]

"But I'm fairly confident the vast majority of people do many of those things you don't do. "

If the majority are angry about these items being missing, and they are abandoning WDW in droves over it, why are the parks still crowded?

When international travel becomes a thing again, maybe that will be an issue for WDW, but by then all those things will probably be back (except maybe late hours and the previous incarnation of Fastpass).

Agreed. They're bringing back something just about every week, sometimes lately it has seemed like almost everyday. Some things are likely gone forever, but many things are already starting to come back.

 

[twincruisers]

There are still a large contingent of Americans that cannot find a vacation either due to no hotel, airline, dining, or rental car space that can find space in WDW.

I'll use myself as an example, I'm a big fan of the National Parks but the recent crowding has forced me out of my usual vacation spots (Yosemite, Moab, Zion, Bryce). Add in my loss of international travel due to covid, WDW ended being my Plan C that I could pull off. I spent more than I expected, but not as much as I would have going international, so yeah there's plenty of people still going who can afford WDW still.

 

[cakebaker]

If the majority are angry about these items being missing, and they are abandoning WDW in droves over it, why are the parks still crowded?

I didn't say they were abandoning WDW, I said they missed all those things and like me aren't happy about it and don't feel like the current WDW is better than the old WDW. My question was only how could the current state of WDW be better than what they were before.

 

[twincruisers]

I'd have to vote for a smaller limited number of guests into each theme park and then build a 3rd location in the US that can handle more guests.

If they keep the same physical footprint, then they will have to charge more (tickets, hotels, etc) and reduce benefits to push out the lower spenders as we've seen over the past year.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I think I read somewhere on here that the dining plan was set to come back in November but I would not swear to it.
I also think I read that the fast past system will come back however they are waiting for the new system to be up and ready so that they do not have to switch between multiple system more than once.

I think we all forget sometimes that Disney's first priority it to the shareholders. Disney has an asset that at the current pricing levels is or was full pre covid. This is simple economic the demand is high the price goes up. That is a no brainer. Where else can you charge 6 bucks for a can of coke? Where else would you pay 6 bucks for a can of coke?

I agree the losing the magically express is a pain, but honestly going to 4 separate hotels is just as big of a pain From what I have been told (by bugging a lot of cast members) Is that no one ever wanted to be the last stop and would complain, the busses were almost never run at capacity and if they waited for the bus to fill up people complained, Mears' contract was up and either want a lot more to continue the service or didn't want to offer it to Disney so that they could start there own service and a lot of guests didn't want to wait for the bus and either took UBER or a Carver service. The perceived value was no longer there. I also think and THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, the DME was to prevent you from renting a car and going to universal or other Orlando destinations, basically by spending a little money on the DME Disney was able to get all of your money. Once UBER and LYFT negated that model, it was no longer a viable business plan. Thankfully, I have gotten to the point in my life that spending an extra $200 dollars during a six thousand to 10 thousand dollar Disney trip is not a big deal. For my last few trips I have skipped the DME and just got a car service. Being completely honest, I have also become spoiled in my old age (43) and I prefer to take a a town car than a bus.

I would not bet on Disney failing anytime soon. I know between 2006 and 2012 we all learned nothing is too big to fail, but honestly the parks will be at back at full capacity by next summer. IF Disney were to charge 10 percent more and only be at 90 percent capacity they would still be ahead of the game by reduced wear and tear of the rides and the parks.

I think you will see price continue to climb until wait times reach a level that Disney calls low enough. Then prices will stabilize.

Bottom line someone will pay what ever it cost to go to Disney.

 

[KittyKitty]

WDW has always been expensive. My 1st time was 1974. WDW is my happy place.

I once tried to find out what % of ppl if they were from United States, go to WDW. I found a site that said about 21 million ppl go to MK in 2019. Since those visitors go to MK and also other parks, I'm guessing that is about how many go in total that year.

I want to find the % 21 million is to American population

We have 300,000 million population. Math problem is 21/300= ??/100 %. Cross multiply 21X100=2100 then divide by 300. 21X100/300= 7% of the population (real roughly) goes to MK, or WDW.
That's a very small amount.

Guess who is a retired math teacher

 

[White_Rabbit18]

I also think we need to wait to actually see if there is a decline in ticket sales because of people being unhappy with changes. Most people only started to travel again in June/July and people that canceled last year probably waited for the vaccine. I am sure that a lot of people who came this summer and who will come for the second half of the year, are people who have not been since the pandemic. So I don’t think a lot of people had a chance to book a future trip yet.

 

[Nabas]

Genuinely sorry if it seems I'm singling out your post, but I wanted to respond to the sentiment in general. WDW is a for-profit entity, one constrained by the law of supply and demand. Demand has been off the chain for years now. At some point, price has to correct. WDW's services (such as space in parks and seats on attractions) are limited -oversold to the point of significantly diminishing the overall experience as years go by. While yes, the needed price correction will necessarily reduce the number of guests. I believe it's as inaccurate as it is unfair to point a finger at Disney and suggest they're engaging in some extraordinary behavior or somehow "wronging" anyone. Rest assured that my own family is affected negatively by the implications of their operating environment, as we are currently struggling to fit our own annual trip (5 kids) into the budget.

Walt Disney World was a "for-profit entity" when theme park admission cost $3.50 in 1971. (About $24 today.)

Wat Disney World was a "for-profit entity" when they built Epcot in 1982, Disney-MGM Studios in 1989, and Disney's Animal Kingdom in 1998.

Wat Disney World was a "for-profit entity" when they opened their first Moderate Resort in 1988 and first Value Resort in 1994 in order to make onsite stays more affordable. (Instead, we get a boutique hotel that costs a family of 4 at least $3000 per night!)

Wat Disney World a "for-profit entity" when they regularly offered "buy 4, get 3 free" hotel, ticket, and food discounts in the 2000s.

Being a "for-profit entity" has nothing to do with it.

Supply-and-demand?

In pre-COVID years, how many times did the theme parks close because they were full? Almost never. Disney has tons of supply. This is not a supply-and-demand issue.

The first problem is that the parks are overcrowded because it's been 23 years (and counting) since WDW last added a theme park. (The previous longest gap was 11 years.) Meanwhile, U.S. population has increased by 20% and Disney has advertised heavily overseas, with International Guests now making up almost 20% of WDW visitors (pre-COVID).

Instead of building more theme parks to take into account that WDW's attendance has grown by 40% in 23 years, Disney's corporate leadership looks for ways to make the parks even more crowded so they can charge even more for the FastPass+ replacement, so they can charge even more for specially-ticketed Halloween and Christmas events, so they can optimize operations, so they can improve "yield."

The second problem is that Disney corporate leadership speaks in phrases like this:

We took the opportunity to revisit our legacy operations to improve the yield​

We are not "yield." We are not profit centers to be maximized. We are not ATMs to withdraw cash from.

We are paying customers who want to be treated as if we are buying the most expensive theme park vacation in the entire World because we already are!

Walt Disney World is the most expensive theme park to ever exist. Start treating us as if we've already paid for a premium service, rather than expecting us to dig even deeper in our pockets to pay for front-of-the-line access to fix a problem that Disney created by not building another theme park for nearly a quarter-of-a-century.

Treat your paying customers the way you would like to be treated.

 

[StuckInKS]

Same with fastpass, if this comes back as a paid only option, will the ticket prices go down? Of course not, but these were included in the price of a regular ticket.

Not only will they not discount for paid FP, but they will likely increase the ticket prices like they do every year (or I think even twice a year sometimes). I feel the same. Our income has increased 3 fold since out last pre-COVID vacation and my first thought was "Yay, better Disney vacations" but when we went in March, we were still in a value and still eating QS even though it cost so much more than it did. Our base tickets alone are up to $5,000 now (family of 8), so not more PH for us either. I am in the middle of a DVC purchase right now so that maybe we can start staying at a deluxe once in a while without spending $1,200 a night (need two rooms) and maybe get a discounted AP when those finally come back. But honestly unless they really and truly price us out, then we will probably keep going. We went to WDW in March and DL in July and have another WDW trip planned in Nov so I guess we are part of the problem.

 

[cgattis]

We are not "yield." We are not profit centers to be maximized. We are not ATMs to withdraw cash from

Man, you hit this one square on the head. I used to feel like a special guest every time we went. Now it’s hard to plan without feeling like “yield.” Some Etsy seller should start making T-shirts that say “I’m a guest, not yield.” Guessing Disney wouldn’t want your selfie in that (holding your receipt for your $229 after hours event) swirling around social media.

 

[DisneyGirlMI]

Don't forget that with Park Passes, Disney could limit theme park attendance to whatever number they want.

Instead, even as COVID is rising, Disney has been increasing theme park capacity.

It wasn't that long ago that it was difficult to get a Park Pass. Now, all 4 parks are available almost every day.

Guest satisfaction is low because:

• Disney ended FastPass+ and will be replacing it with a cash system.
• Disney ended Extra Magic Hours, and is now limiting its replacement to Deluxe Resort Guests only, and only (it appears) for the 2 slowest days of the week.
• Disney is ending Disney's Magical Express.
• Disney charges for hotel parking, when it used to be included in the price of the hotel.
• Disney raised hotel rack rates by a total of about 20% over the last few years.
• Disney is offering no hotel discounts after September.
• Disney now charges for MagicBands, something that used to be included in the price of an onsite stay.
• Disney has closed numerous shows and meet & greets, and is only slowly bringing these back, yet is still charging full price for tickets.

Guest satisfaction is low because corporate Disney is focused on money, not its "Guests".

This.

 

[Sargeant Tibbs]

The first problem is that the parks are overcrowded because it's been 23 years (and counting) since WDW last added a theme park. (The previous longest gap was 11 years.) Meanwhile, U.S. population has increased by 20% and Disney has advertised heavily overseas, with International Guests now making up almost 20% of WDW visitors (pre-COVID).

And focusing on Shanghai instead of the overcrowding at WDW. Iger serviced his own ego first and foremost. (Pandora?)

And Chapek is no visionary.

When Universal finally opens their 3rd gate Disney might realize it's time to step up and build a 5th. Disney prefers to play defense, and only when they absolutely need to (Galaxy's Edge) meanwhile investing in mitigation tactics with FP, MDE, Genie instead of any real product.

I always thought wdw should build a true roller coaster park to rival the coasters at Cedar Point. I don't love roller coasters myself, but a thrill park would take tremendous pressure off all the others.

 

[Miffy]

WDW has needed a fifth gate for a long time, as well as huge improvements to Epcot. Do I see this happening anytime soon? Not really.

@Nabas: Great post. Many thanks.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

WDW has needed a fifth gate for a long time, as well as huge improvements to Epcot. Do I see this happening anytime soon? Not really.

@Nabas: Great post. Many thanks.

You have the ability to show Disney how much you don't like them, by not going to their parks.
I was there in June and wait times for everything were ridiculous. By that metric I would say that Disney can charge more. Do I want them to charge more no, but I also understand business.