repeated BUS ABUSE ON OUR TRIP THIS PAST WEEK

Originally posted by lllovell
"Then what is the point of having the resorts gated with a guard?"

The only point of this is to keep cars out - as security stands now, any person can get on a bus and get into any resort on the property :sad2: . How safe does that make it?
 
But they are keeping cars out so that we as resort guests have some priviledges (a parking space). If they keep sending people to the SSR buses, they are taking away what I feel like is a priviledge, which is a seat on a bus in a "reasonable" amount of time. I know that reasonable is different for many people. To me this IS about entitlement because we as SSR owners subsidize the bus service there and THEN pay for the same "rights" as everyone else because it is built into ticket prices as well.

I understand the need to not have DTD full of "parking fee cheaters" and that running buses directly from DTD to the parks would probably encourage people. I am all for validation of any sort to guarantee parking. Spend money at DTD and you have earned a parking space (a cup of coffe shouldn't equal all day, but setting spending limits does make it a problem for the days when I browse and find nothing I want to purchase). To me - either that or put a gate on the SSR paths would solve the issue. A gate would keep people from walking around SSR (which maybe is by design on Disney's part - but maybe not), but if you wish to see the grounds, I have never seen anyone turned away at the guard shack. There will be a guard shack near the CP bus stop at some point. Are they simply going to let all people through? (you could certainly walk down from the bus stop area there pretty easily if memory serves).
 
I guess I don't get the entitlement theory. Everyone that goes to Disney and purchases a ticket or anything else helps pay for the transportation sytems!! Don't you think that somewhere in the cost of a park hopper ticket they have designated a least some of the price to go towards their transportation budget? DVC resorts don't have exclusive buses that only they pay for - unless I've missed something! I would guess that the majority of your dues go to fund upkeep and management of the actual DVC facilities.
 
nowellsl said:
I guess I don't get the entitlement theory. Everyone that goes to Disney and purchases a ticket or anything else helps pay for the transportation sytems!! Don't you think that somewhere in the cost of a park hopper ticket they have designated a least some of the price to go towards their transportation budget? DVC resorts don't have exclusive buses that only they pay for - unless I've missed something! I would guess that the majority of your dues go to fund upkeep and management of the actual DVC facilities.

Saratoga Springs owners are paying $1.4 million in transportation costs for 2005. Not an insignificant sum, IMO, and clearly an indication that the WDW transportation system is not fully funded by ticket revenue.

I'm not convinced that the $1.4 mil is sufficient to fund ALL of SSR's transportation services for the year, but thus far nobody has presented hard evidence to either confirm or deny.
 
We pay 1.4 million or 8% of our total dues under the heading of "transportation" at SSR.

I don't disagree that everyone with a ticket (or that is a guest I believe as well) is allowed to use the bus system. But, what is happening here is a bit different to me. The people that we are talking about have a bus stop open to them (that everyone that buys a ticket helps to support). The issues get a bit murky from there - but essentially, if you were paying extra for a car to pick you up at the airport, but the hops were telling everyone to go and get in the same line that you do (people who aren't paying extra) and you had to wait an even longer period of time and when you reached your destination, those people were all unloading in your front yard and walking across your property (albeit on paths - so hopefully NOT distroying the landscaping, etc that YOU pay for) wouldn't you be a bit miffed?

I know...its a timeshare. What I own is a little bitty part. I am not saying that people should not be allowed to ride the buses, I am saying that the current situation is not fair to those of us that pay more (if our "home" has become the one that is singled out for DTD traffic).
 
lllovell said:
We pay 1.4 million or 8% of our total dues under the heading of "transportation" at SSR.

I don't disagree that everyone with a ticket (or that is a guest I believe as well) is allowed to use the bus system. But, what is happening here is a bit different to me. The people that we are talking about have a bus stop open to them (that everyone that buys a ticket helps to support). The issues get a bit murky from there - but essentially, if you were paying extra for a car to pick you up at the airport, but the hops were telling everyone to go and get in the same line that you do (people who aren't paying extra) and you had to wait an even longer period of time and when you reached your destination, those people were all unloading in your front yard and walking across your property (albeit on paths - so hopefully NOT distroying the landscaping, etc that YOU pay for) wouldn't you be a bit miffed?

I know...its a timeshare. What I own is a little bitty part. I am not saying that people should not be allowed to ride the buses, I am saying that the current situation is not fair to those of us that pay more (if our "home" has become the one that is singled out for DTD traffic).

I like the way you phrase your answers and I totally agree with some of your points. I think we are looking at this from different perspectives - DVC Owner vs non DVC Owner. But I've enjoyed hearing your responses. I suppose if I were sinking large amounts of money (at least to me) into DVC I would probably have a different attitude!
 
Well, I've sunk large amounts of money into DVC and I don't have a different attitude. Disney offers a transportation system that allows you to go anywhere you want on the property. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people getting on a bus at MK and riding it to SSR, even if they're not staying there, whether it's to go to a restaurant, to go to the spa, to get over to Downtown or just to look at the pretty flowers and horse pictures.

Plenty are the times that I've stayed at a DVC resort but visited Poly or GF using the monorail, boats, buses, or whatever. Was I "scamming" the system? No, Disney offers that service, Disney wants me to go to those places in the hopes that I'll spend more money there. Are people staying at Poly and GF entitled to complain that I'm taking up space they "subsidized" by paying for their hotel rooms? No.

It's no different at a DVC resort. If I'm staying at AsMo and I want to take the bus from MK to BCV so I can go to Beaches & Cream, or just to stroll around the Boardwalk, there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the beauty of being at Disney.

If there really is a problem with bus capacity to SSR (and there's no reason to think that there is, any more than at any other resort) then the answer is not to expect other guests to modify their behavior to avoid inconveniencing us "privileged" DVC owners, it's to expect Disney to add bus capacity.
 
:) I just hope something is figured out that will work best for everyone.

Me...I just wanna be there now! :flower:
 
Hmmmmmmmm, if I left now I could be there by 4:15!!!! :goodvibes
 
Tom,

There is obviously a problem with people parking at DTD for free and using transportation to get to the parks. If there wasn't, then Disney would have buses running straight there because they don't miss a trick on helping any of us spend money. We will just have to agree to disagree that it is not fair for one resort to shoulder the burden of these cheapskates. No one here is arguing that legitimate people cannot use the bus system, cannot travel from resort to resort (using that bus system...NOT their cars - because they do restrict car parking when its busy AND to keep people from filling up the Poly and Contemp. etc and walking to transportation or right to MK), are free to walk around or eat, shop or enjoy the grounds - but not the facilities (as in the things that are paid for by guests at the particular hotel or DVC resort - the pools, the work out facilities, etc). What I see is that this is a known problem of people using DTD for free parking which makes it hard to get a parking space there if you are a shopper AND which is already showing itself to be an issue for SSR guests.

But....back to sitting on the balcony watching the world go by while at WDW :)
 
If they keep sending people to the SSR buses, they are taking away what I feel like is a priviledge, which is a seat on a bus in a "reasonable" amount of time. I know that reasonable is different for many people. To me this IS about entitlement because we as SSR owners subsidize the bus service there and THEN pay for the same "rights" as everyone else because it is built into ticket prices as well.


SSR owners contribute to the bus service expense, but we don't pay for it entirely. Think of all the off site guests who drive in, pay the parking fee, and then purchase tickets (of which a percent goes towards the transportation fee) yet never step foot on a Disney bus. It's not just the DVC owners who contribute to transporation and are, in essence, charged twice. ALL the resorts do as well - makes sense since if you're staying on site you'll probably use the transporation system more. Are there guests who only pay the percentage thru the park tickets yet use the buses as well? Absolutely. Just like there will be those who never use the buses. If they find that more buses are needed to handle the crowds, then they dispatch more buses, so it's no skin off my nose if Disney is telling people to take the SSR bus to get to DD.
 
I'd join you in sitting on the balcony right now, but I'd freeze to death (I'm in Buffalo :( )

I don't see it as any great crime to park for free at DTD and take Disney transport to the parks. I really doubt there's a huge number of people doing this, since the time and effort it takes to do this is hardly worth the $8 or whatever it costs to park. But if Disney offers this opportunity, why shouldn't people take it? Doesn't make 'em "deadbeats." I guess it makes 'em cheapskates. But that's not illegal. Are we saying there should be a rule that it's okay to take Disney transport from a park to SSR to DTD, as long as you HAVEN'T parked there? How is that going to be policed?

If this is really a problem, then there's a simple way for Disney to solve it- charge for parking at DTD. I really don't begrudge people the chance to keep 8 bucks in their pocket instead of in Mickey's. You almost have to admire the ingenuity.
 
lllovell said:
Tom,

There is obviously a problem with people parking at DTD for free and using transportation to get to the parks. If there wasn't, then Disney would have buses running straight there because they don't miss a trick on helping any of us spend money. We will just have to agree to disagree that it is not fair for one resort to shoulder the burden of these cheapskates. No one here is arguing that legitimate people cannot use the bus system, cannot travel from resort to resort (using that bus system...NOT their cars - because they do restrict car parking when its busy AND to keep people from filling up the Poly and Contemp. etc and walking to transportation or right to MK), are free to walk around or eat, shop or enjoy the grounds - but not the facilities (as in the things that are paid for by guests at the particular hotel or DVC resort - the pools, the work out facilities, etc). What I see is that this is a known problem of people using DTD for free parking which makes it hard to get a parking space there if you are a shopper AND which is already showing itself to be an issue for SSR guests.

But....back to sitting on the balcony watching the world go by while at WDW :)


EXACTLY!!!!!!!! The word is "legitimately". Going to a resort to enjoy it is a legitamate reason. Trudging through it just to save $8 when your intention is nothing but to scam free parking is not what the path was intended for nor what Disney expects with offering the transportation.

If Disney intended people to park at DTD for free and avoid the $8 fee then the busses would go from DTD to the parks. They stopped that because of the abuse. So like said previously the intent oif the pathway and the bus system was not for those who want to pull one over and avoid the fee it is intended for guests to enjoy the resort and what it offers. It is not the new TTC for people who don't want to pay.
 
Maybe another way to look at it is this:

People pay a fee to USE the WDW transportation system when they purchase a multi-day ticket.

WDW Resorts pay a huge annual fee to the WDW transportation system in order to get service directly to the resort and have it linked to the world for the convenience of it's guests. In return for this convenience, the resorts have to give access to their resort to other users of the WDW transportation system.

All WDW resort guests get access to the WDW transportation system. However, for the convenience of that transportation system coming directly to their resort, resort guests and DVC members subsidize or reimburse their resorts in the form of room rates or annual dues.

So other way to look at it would be that being a WDW resort guest and/or buying a multi-day tickets gives us transportation privileges. Paying DVC dues for transportation ensures that our resort is linked to the World through the transportation system and thus the World get access to our resort too.
 
Synonymous said:
I'd join you in sitting on the balcony right now, but I'd freeze to death (I'm in Buffalo :( )

I don't see it as any great crime to park for free at DTD and take Disney transport to the parks. I really doubt there's a huge number of people doing this, since the time and effort it takes to do this is hardly worth the $8 or whatever it costs to park. But if Disney offers this opportunity, why shouldn't people take it? Doesn't make 'em "deadbeats." I guess it makes 'em cheapskates. But that's not illegal. Are we saying there should be a rule that it's okay to take Disney transport from a park to SSR to DTD, as long as you HAVEN'T parked there? How is that going to be policed?

If this is really a problem, then there's a simple way for Disney to solve it- charge for parking at DTD. I really don't begrudge people the chance to keep 8 bucks in their pocket instead of in Mickey's. You almost have to admire the ingenuity.


So why begrudge them dipping into the pool? Why begrudge them a parking spot at SSR? It is a loophole and just because it is open doesn't mean it is morally right to use it.

Just because Disney gives transportation to encourage park hoping and resort visits doesn't mean that people should use any resort as their way to free parking. It is abuse of a priviledge IMO.

Of course with attitudes like yours Tom anything can be justified.

It is amazing that you admire that behavior!
 
golfnut1264 said:
Golfnut1264,If you think Disney is the most expensive place in the world to vacation, you have not traveled very far. Many places are much more expensive than DW.

sammie...dont take everything so literally in life....and you have no idea were i have travelled....the point was not to try and prove disney as the most exspensive place in the world to travel....to middle class america who cant afford vacations you can take disney is very exspensive.....

Well I guess I call them the way I read them. If you posted it is an expensive vacation to many, totally agree. But when you say, "Disney is the most expensive place in the world to vacation", then that is not accurate. I guess I am just into accuracy. :)
 
3DisneyNUTS said:
EXACTLY!!!!!!!! The word is "legitimately". Going to a resort to enjoy it is a legitamate reason. Trudging through it just to save $8 when your intention is nothing but to scam free parking is not what the path was intended for nor what Disney expects with offering the transportation.

Well, with all due respect, who appointed you, or any DVC member, to decide what is "legitimate" use of the transportation system and what isn't? Obviously, Disney doesn't think it's "illegitimate" because their employees are telling people to do it. So, what we're left with is that it's "illegitimate" because some DVC members perceive it as potentially inconveniencing them.

Of course, there are rules against pool-hopping, so that's a different issue. I have no problem with rules being enforced. What does bother me is people making up rules to suit their own needs and then expecting other people to follow them.

Imposing on DVC members' imagined "entitlements" isn't a "moral" issue. But perhaps expecting other people to kowtow to those imagined entitlements is.
 
Here are the thoughts behind my statement of the Spirit of the bus system use by MYW ticket holders, and I am hoping that Tom and Nowellsl can see where I am coming from.

If the reports of DTD parking lots being significantly full well before the shops open are true, then it it reasonable for me to deduce that many to most of those vehicle are from people wanting to avoid the $8 parking fee, regardless of which park they are giong to visit. Also it seems Disney, in making the decision to cut DTD bus service all together for this reason, already did some research and possibly came to the same conclusion. Basically, if it happened before, it is probably happening now. People are creatures of habit.

Although not a majority of the population, many people hear ideas, such as taking advantage of the free parkeing at DTD, and want to try it out. Some are definately cheap enough to do this option, especially if the family is younger (I have friends that would be this cheap ;) ) and can handle the hike. There are also those type people who will cut you off in traffic or use a right hand turn lane to get ahead of a slower moving lane, or even park in a handicaped spot just because they are that self centered. I would guess on any givien day at Disney, there are a hundred or so of the last group, a hundred of the middle, and a hundred of the first group (although maybe more of each). That is 300 or so cheaters riding the buses at the same time (park closing for instance).

I am wondering what the capacity of the DTD hotels are. If they are full during a heavy season, their best option to get to the parks may be to cut through SSR, instead of waiting on the three mini vans the hotel has acting as shuttles. How much of a load would you think that adds to the SSR busses? (I looked it up, all seven hotels have a combined room total of 3,725. We will need to multiply that by 2 if not more for an average guest count when they are full...wow, an additional 7,450 people potentially waiting for our bus?? wow...)

A main reason I said "spirit" of the transportation usage is because Disney has made a concious decision to NOT run busses to DTD, the DTD hotels, nor any other resort outside the WDW area. If they really wanted guests to use their one day MYW ticket for transportation to the theme parks initially, they would have made (and would adopt) more bus options available. Instead, Disney made a specific decision to CUT the transportation option from DTD. I do not believe CMs are giving the information to use SSR busses under sanction from WDW corporate office. I think they just use their common sense when asked a specific question (that SSR is now the closest stop).

Someone mentioned that people may park at DTD with the anticipation of visiting the stores after they leave the park. This is a possibility, but I have concerns on this theory. To begin, some major stores have an entrance on one side of the parking lot and the exit on the other. Some of our groceries have this. I have observed that most people park near the entrance instead of the exit, because they can only see the here and now and not anticipate where they want to be when they come out. My point is, by enlarge, I will speculate most people are short sighted. Given this, I don't think people are far sighted enough to realize that when they leave a theme park, they will want to do their shopping then. A few, maybe. Most, no. As such, I speculate they are there early am for another reason. I think it is more convenient to park at the theme park's lot and then drive to DTD afterwards, then to hassle with the busses just to do more shopping.

Disney would very much like those guests not staying in a WDW resort (or being an AP holder) to pay for their parking, thus the WDW company has made it less accomodating for those staying at DTD hotels or off site to use the transportation system until they pay for parking. That is pure observation, and I would hope you agree based on their cutting service to DTD. Thus, I doubt seriously WDW will once again reinstate the busses to DTD, and if they do, it will be in direct response to similar concerns voiced on this thread.

I hope anyone who disagrees with my points will at least be able to understand my thoughts behind it. It isn't malace nor an emotional thing. I simply am thinking of the potential capacity of the busses vs the potential capacity of people who may want to use them. As many others have stated, there is a possibility of the "Perfect Storm" to seriously hinder those guests who have possibly paid twice (once for the theme park tickets and once for dues) in getting to their hotel rooms after a day at the park or to PS reservations they have made due to those who do not want to pay the theme park lot fees or those who think their DTD Hotel shuttle service is inadequate.

Bottom line for me, it doesn't seem fair and I thought Disney was all about fairness. Not perfect, but fair.

Please excuse any typos in this long post. Thanks for listening to my side, I do appreciate it! :)
 
Synonymous said:
Well, with all due respect, who appointed you, or any DVC member, to decide what is "legitimate" use of the transportation system and what isn't? Obviously, Disney doesn't think it's "illegitimate" because their employees are telling people to do it. So, what we're left with is that it's "illegitimate" because some DVC members perceive it as potentially inconveniencing them.

Of course, there are rules against pool-hopping, so that's a different issue. I have no problem with rules being enforced. What does bother me is people making up rules to suit their own needs and then expecting other people to follow them.

Imposing on DVC members' imagined "entitlements" isn't a "moral" issue. But perhaps expecting other people to kowtow to those imagined entitlements is.

Tom please you were the moral authority before by saying how it is selfish and mean spirited it is to watch what other people are doing on vacation. After I felt the need to explain myself and my situation you want to turn this around on me?

Obviously WDW has a problem with people parking at DTD to avoid parking fees that is why they stopped the bus service from DTD to the parks. My concern is that SSR will now be spot people go to avoid parking fees. I observed this 3 times and one other time the aggrivated woman was trying to get to the Hilton. So I have seen 4 incidences in a 6 day trip where people were using it as a way to get to DTD.

Entitlement? Nope but if we pay 13k plus (to start)and invest money into a property, then have to pay dues on that property for the next 45+ years I do have the right to state my opinion on a situation I see will be a problem. If it will be something that may negatively impact my investment then I am going to say something about it.

Do I care if you agree with me? nope but I am ENTITLED to my opinion on it.

I will say it again...I don't think parking fee scammers are entitled to my seat (or any other DVC members seat) on the bus.
 

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