Riviera Direct

[gisele2]

So I can’t believe I’m saying this, but we just added on direct at Riviera. We purchased 2 CCV Fixed Weeks in June, but in talking to our guide, discovered that since our contract hadn’t closed, we could add on points, rewrite the CCV contract, and get the extra incentive. DH really wanted to add on at RIV back in February and I talked him out of it because of dues and point charts, but we really did want a resort near Epcot and HS as we already own at BRV, CCV (MK area) and AKV (AKL area). Buying just 65 Riviera points on top of the 2 CCV FWs and hitting the next incentive level means we’d effectively only be paying $136.85 per point, and that seemed a good deal. I then got convinced to add on 100 points instead (in 2 50 point contracts) so they’d be grandfathered into the 100 point minimum for direct benefits, which made it $143.20 per point. I’m a little less happy with that, but it’s still a good value, and we got 2019 points to boot. So after all my “we won’t own there” posts, DH has made a liar of me. ;-)

The only people who do not change their minds are fools.

 

[Lorana]

As we are all holding out for a covid vaccine, you my friend need an addonitis vaccine!! SOON. Is there a VGC in your future again?!

I remember your 'never Riviera' posts. The resort seems to be warming some hearts lately.

What was it that finally broke you to make you become a Riviera sith? You know the sky will fall in because of restrictions dont you!?

Well, part of it was DH, but he pointed out that we were already planning a few nights there twice in 2021 because of friends staying there or at CBR and wanting to be there. But also because we DO love the Boardwalk area, and the World Showcase, and of course dining at Epcot and F&W Festival. I’m in my mid-40s and he’s in his early-50s, and the ease of Skyliner access going forward is something we do both feel we’ll appreciate more and more as time goes on.

We do also find the resort beautiful though I was surprised how much he loved the photos and videos of it, as “rustic” is usually more our thing, but the ability to sleep 5 in both studios and 1BR is important not just for our boys (who won’t share a bed) but something we’ll appreciate if there are ever grandkids. Honestly the thing we didn’t like about RIV was the point chart, the dues and the restrictions.

We also don’t mind resort hopping/split stays and in some ways prefer it. This means that if we go down for an extended stay, we can split up our stay between different areas, too, and this gives us an Epcot area resort.

I admitted I suggested BCV (I love the pool!) or BWV - better location, better point charts, and better dues - but the 2042 date was a sticking point. While it’s possible we’ll want to unload some contracts before I retire, that’s also right around retirement so we’ll likely want the resort to use at least for the first several years. And with the incentives, RIV is not that much more expensive than BCV, even if BCV still has a superior pool. We love lazy rivers and can spend all day in them, so I confess I really want a lazy river resort, which is why I was heartbroken over Reflections being shut down, especially as DH doesn’t love BCV as much (mostly because it’s New England themed and we’re from New England, so it doesn’t feel as much as if we’ve ‘gotten away from it all.’).

As for dues, my DH pointed out that we don’t know how dues will play out in the next few years but suggested that Disney probably has a good sense nowadays of costs (though property taxes are beyond their control), and pointed to how little CCV has risen in the past few years. While I did counter that RIV can’t share costs with a hotel side, it is a fair point that RIV dues may not rise a lot and that it’ll only take a few years for many of the resorts to likely be in the low to mid $8’s for dues.

Finally, even with resale restrictions, he pointed out that 50-point contracts are likely to still fetch a decent price on the resale market so if we did sell, we’d likely recoup most of our cost since we did only effectively pay $143.20/point (and that point is the only thing that prevented me from saying ‘well, if were diving in, let’s just get a FW’ and buying 130 points instead of 100).

Finally of course RIV has a long expiration date. Thus, if our kids or even grandkids want our contracts down the line, we can leave them to our kids, since it’s unlikely we’ll still be here in 2070, let alone still going to Disney.

It honestly was never a case of not likely the resort so much as me not liking the dues/point costs around it, but DH may be right and the financials may not look so starkly different a few years down the line. We also just celebrated our 19th anniversary and his birthday is in just over a week, so sentiments win right now. ;-)

And at the point cost we just bought in, these don’t make awful SAP for BCV, Poly, BLT or GF either, to combine with our SSR SAP points, in years we want to stay elsewhere, or even when we head out to DL or Aulani. And as these are direct, we can use them at both GCV and the new DL Tower in the future.

As for GCV, I do want to own there someday, but not anytime soon, and I really just want a small 50-point contract anyway. But I also suspect I’ll never own there, because the buy-in cost is so high. I honestly think our frequency of trips to DL is likely to decrease over time as our big motivators were my job kept sending me out there and our youngest son really loved DL for Halloween. But he goes to college in 5 years so I have no doubt that once he’s off on his own we won’t go to DL every year any more.

Whew this post turned out longer than I intended! Thanks for listening to my TED Talk. ;-)

 

[i<3riviera]

͏

 

[dvc lover 1970]

So now that I have my 300 pts RIv direct, if I purchase another 300 pts resale from say HHI, can I use them in combination when I book a resort?

You can combine your 300 direct points to use with your reslae points for any resort Except RR - the resale points Cannot be used at RR

 

[Lorana]

happy anniversary and happy birthday to your husband! may you celebrate many more of both!

Thank you!!

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I don't buy cheap like Dean above has mentioned that's a poor use of money unless it's a rising stock or real estate. I would not want to be stuck at SSR either, no thank you, it's a one and done for me and for many other people I know as well.

My vacations have meaning to me and if I get stuck somewhere I don't want to be then not much of a vacation I 'd rather stay home. I have never saved any money going on vacation it usually costs more than I want but if I am happy it's worth every penny.

You should try booking at 7 months at a popular time say between the end of October and April and you'll wish you bought at the resort you like to stay at.

SSR is actually a great resort...Unless you end up in Carosaul. We loved it so much that we added on there and yes..use those points usually at SSR. For older kids and older folks (like me) it really is a great resort. if you asked me this 10-12 years ago I would have said no way to SSR and BLT is the way to go. My point is as your family ages favorite resorts change. MK is not my kids priority any more - they like the World showcase and DS now (as do I)

 

[dvc lover 1970]

So I can’t believe I’m saying this, but we just added on direct at Riviera. We purchased 2 CCV Fixed Weeks in June, but in talking to our guide, discovered that since our contract hadn’t closed, we could add on points, rewrite the CCV contract, and get the extra incentive. DH really wanted to add on at RIV back in February and I talked him out of it because of dues and point charts, but we really did want a resort near Epcot and HS as we already own at BRV, CCV (MK area) and AKV (AKL area). Buying just 65 Riviera points on top of the 2 CCV FWs and hitting the next incentive level means we’d effectively only be paying $136.85 per point, and that seemed a good deal. I then got convinced to add on 100 points instead (in 2 50 point contracts) so they’d be grandfathered into the 100 point minimum for direct benefits, which made it $143.20 per point. I’m a little less happy with that, but it’s still a good value, and we got 2019 points to boot. So after all my “we won’t own there” posts, DH has made a liar of me. ;-)

Congratulations on your purchases! CCV still has fixed weeks available? nice buy. I am a little confused on the RR discount or 136. pp -RR is 160 pp at 200 and above but you only purchased 100 points. Were you able to combine your CCV purchase points with RR for total points for discounts? Sorry just curious myself

 

[Wedgeout]

Would any of you be tempted to purchase Riviera direct? $25 off per point for 200 pts or more. It amounts to not much more than the SSR contract I was looking at direct. I’ve been pretty certain I would stay away from RIV but the rooms look beautiful in the videos I’ve seen. I know I would have an issue selling down the road...what about renting should we tire of WDW? Would it be popular for renters since most resale members wouldn’t be able to use points there? Thanks for any feedback!!

DVC resorts have different purchase prices direct. I wouldn’t ever buy with renting in mind. First priority would be: At which resort do you want to stay the majority of the time? That resort should be “Home”. My opinion on buying Riviera with the current resale restrictions: if you have any thoughts of selling in the future, it’s not a good purchase.

 

[Eric Smith]

Would any of you be tempted to purchase Riviera direct? $25 off per point for 200 pts or more. It amounts to not much more than the SSR contract I was looking at direct. I’ve been pretty certain I would stay away from RIV but the rooms look beautiful in the videos I’ve seen. I know I would have an issue selling down the road...what about renting should we tire of WDW? Would it be popular for renters since most resale members wouldn’t be able to use points there? Thanks for any feedback!!

How many points were you looking to buy at SSR?

Here are my thoughts:
-Riviera has an inflated points chart compared to most of the rest of the WDW resorts. That means that your points won't go as far.
-I wouldn't buy planning to possibly rent out the points in the future. It's unknown what the rental market will look like after this is all over. A lot of renters got screwed over by the shutdown and may be scared off of renting again.
-I don't think the current discount at Riviera will be the last one. The resort wasn't selling super well before the shutdown and I see no reason why it would start selling better all of the sudden. You probably have some time.
-I'd recommend going by Riviera if you're going to be on property any time soon. I'd be hesitant to buy the resort without laying eyes on it.
-Make sure to factor in the maintenance fees when you're looking at the cost. In 2020, Riviera is $8.31 pp and Saratoga is $6.77 pp. On 200 points that's an annual difference of $308 which will add up over time.
-I'd be worried about the resale restriction in case you ever have to sell. It's unknown how the resale restriction will affect the resale value of Riviera long term.

 

[sethschroeder]

if you have any thoughts of selling in the future, it’s not a good purchase.

• In 10 years BWV/BCV will have 11 years left and RIV will have 40 years left for Epcot resorts
• Some people will prefer RIV/Epcot area and care less about moving to other resort (VGF, BWV, BCV, VGC are all purchased by many as home resort only stays)
• Get a fixed week and it will protect some value
• Original 14 resorts will expire in 2042 18% of points (all Epcot resorts), 2054 38% of points, 2057 60% of points

This concept of buyings cheap SSR SAP points as a long term solution has roughly 10-15 years left before people start talking about short contracts (without the draw of a resort like BWV/BCV/BRV to keep prices up). If you plan on selling in 10-15 years then NO direct resort is a good choice and neither is SSR IMO.

It cannot be understated that there will not be a single location for resale points to stay in the Epcot area in February 2042 and quite possibly well before that except maybe 1BRs as from here on out the only ones buying BCV/BWV/RIV resale are not using their points elsewhere (absolutely true for RIV because of the restriction). You think its hard getting BWV/BCV at 7 months now just wait for more of those resorts to turn over and people pay a premium on shorter contracts.

 

[Lorana]

Congratulations on your purchases! CCV still has fixed weeks available? nice buy. I am a little confused on the RR discount or 136. pp -RR is 160 pp at 200 and above but you only purchased 100 points. Were you able to combine your CCV purchase points with RR for total points for discounts? Sorry just curious myself

Yes, I was able to combine them all since CCV, RIV, and AUL all have the same incentives.

The two CCV FWs put us at 236 points ($35 off per point), so the 100 RIV points put us at the 300-point existing member discount of $40/point. That would drop RIV to $155/point. However it also gave us another $5 off per point for the CCV FWs, which is how we got to the “effective” cost for those RIV points of $143.20. We were buying CCV anyway after all.

If we had only added on 65 RIV points: 65 x 155 - $1180 (the additional $5 off for the CCV contracts) / 65 = $136.85.
Instead we did 100, which is 100 x 155 - $1180 / 100 = $143.20.

 

[Sandisw]

So I can’t believe I’m saying this, but we just added on direct at Riviera. We purchased 2 CCV Fixed Weeks in June, but in talking to our guide, discovered that since our contract hadn’t closed, we could add on points, rewrite the CCV contract, and get the extra incentive. DH really wanted to add on at RIV back in February and I talked him out of it because of dues and point charts, but we really did want a resort near Epcot and HS as we already own at BRV, CCV (MK area) and AKV (AKL area). Buying just 65 Riviera points on top of the 2 CCV FWs and hitting the next incentive level means we’d effectively only be paying $136.85 per point, and that seemed a good deal. I then got convinced to add on 100 points instead (in 2 50 point contracts) so they’d be grandfathered into the 100 point minimum for direct benefits, which made it $143.20 per point. I’m a little less happy with that, but it’s still a good value, and we got 2019 points to boot. So after all my “we won’t own there” posts, DH has made a liar of me. ;-)

You are not the first and won’t be the last. I was a never last year and quickly became an owner after thinking through things!

Congrats!

 

[CastAStone]

• Some people will prefer RIV/Epcot area and care less about moving to other resort (VGF, BWV, BCV, VGC are all purchased by many as home resort only stays)
• Get a fixed week and it will protect some value

It cannot be understated that there will not be a single location for resale points to stay in the Epcot area in February 2042 and quite possibly well before that except maybe 1BRs as from here on out the only ones buying BCV/BWV/RIV resale are not using their points elsewhere (absolutely true for RIV because of the restriction)

These are some pretty big assumptions. What if they extend the skyliner to OKW/SSR? The original plans leaked and SSR was in them (a long time ago now, but still). Those resorts would immediately become Epcot area. What if they do add a YC DVC with a 2080 expiration? That will definitely hurt Riviera's value.

I don't understand your point about BCV/BWV and availability. The highly desirable times at both are already effectively impossible to book except 1BRs.

This concept of buyings cheap SSR SAP points as a long term solution has roughly 10-15 years left before people start talking about short contracts (without the draw of a resort like BWV/BCV/BRV to keep prices up). If you plan on selling in 10-15 years then NO direct resort is a good choice and neither is SSR IMO.

Again, a pretty big assumption. SSR in 10-15 years I think will not have lost almost any value vs current (relative to the other resorts). I honestly expect Riviera resale to be below SSR for at least the next 15 years, probably longer (and direct pricing post-sell-out to ultimately to settle at a similar number to SSR). If you want the ability to trade resorts in 2042, only roughly half the resorts will even have that as an option, making them ever more desirable (vs resorts opened after 2019).

I dunno. It seems to me like if you want to stay near Epcot you should buy Boardwalk resale and it's cheap point chart for $110, and save the rest of your cash to buy something else in 2041. Just like all the sold out resorts, they'll still be selling Riviera then if you really want it.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

What if they extend the skyliner to OKW/SSR? The original plans leaked and SSR was in them (a long time ago now, but still). Those resorts would immediately become Epcot area. What if they do add a YC DVC with a 2080 expiration? That will definitely hurt Riviera's value.

Unless SSR would have a direct shot to epcot like RIV does that only takes 7 mins to get there I wouldnt consider them epcot resorts. Depends on where the station would go. I think its more likely a hotel gets skyliner access to Disney Springs more than anything or a Skyliner from AKL to somewhere also.

 

[CastAStone]

Unless SSR would have a direct shot to epcot like RIV does that only takes 7 mins to get there I wouldnt consider them epcot resorts. Depends on where the station would go. I think its more likely a hotel gets skyliner access to Disney Springs more than anything or a Skyliner from AKL to somewhere also.

The leaked plan (Click here to see it) had its Eastern terminus between Rainforest Cafe at DS and Congress Park at SSR. So it would be for both.

Again, it’s probably 4 years old at this point, but it shows the plan was once there.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

The leaked plan (Click here to see it) had its Eastern terminus between Rainforest Cafe at DS and Congress Park at SSR. So it would be for both.

Again, it’s probably 4 years old at this point, but it shows the plan was once there.

Yeah that would have 2 stops before even passing the Riviera station to epcot so I wouldn't see that as an Epcot resort. Though it would benefit Riviera more so than hurt it since it would make it easier to get to disney springs than it is lol. I'd also worry about that much traffic coming through the CBR station. The lines only hold so much capacity so if u now how dowble or tripple the hotels going through CBR thats a problem. I don't know If i'd ever seem them all connecting. I also don't think this is an official map either. Just leaked possibilities.

 

[sethschroeder]

These are some pretty big assumptions. What if they extend the skyliner to OKW/SSR? The original plans leaked and SSR was in them (a long time ago now, but still). Those resorts would immediately become Epcot area. What if they do add a YC DVC with a 2080 expiration? That will definitely hurt Riviera's value.

I don't understand your point about BCV/BWV and availability. The highly desirable times at both are already effectively impossible to book except 1BRs.

I think its a huge assumption that the Skyliner gets extended to SSR/OKW prior to a resort flip. Its more likely that the next phase of Skyliner building would go from Epcot -> Coronado -> AK and thus raise the value of the Coronado resort to a true Deluxe resort allowing for further towers if they choose to like Gran Destino (some people say its nicer than some Deluxe).

Also my point about BCV/BWV is people DO want to be attached to Epcot from their resort. The only option that is not expiring shortly will be RIV until 2042 with whatever happens.

If they build YCV you can expect the Buy-In to be much higher and the point charts to be much higher. Riveria will be viewed as a considerable value after 2042 occurs in the Epcot area.

SSR in 10-15 years I think will not have lost almost any value vs current

SSR is going to continue to be depressed especially as the largest resort with a dwindling time left. Look at OKW non-extended as an example of roughly a 15-20% reduction in resale value.

I dunno. It seems to me like if you want to stay near Epcot you should buy Boardwalk resale and it's cheap point chart for $110, and save the rest of your cash to buy something else in 2041. Just like all the sold out resorts, they'll still be selling Riviera then if you really want it.

Except you have 20 years of AP savings (sure you could buy 100 points direct BWV I suppose though at $200/point but that makes BWV effectively $132.50 for 400 points with 21 years left or $6.31/point that you use). You also have a RIV contract in 2041 that you can sell and purchase BWV at that time after accessing what the new math would be.

Remember in 20 years pricing is going to be higher, point charts will be worse, and MFs will be higher at the new resorts. There is always a outside chance they don't sell BWV/BCV right away or have some other restriction on them above and beyond RIV.

 

[sethschroeder]

The leaked plan (Click here to see it) had its Eastern terminus between Rainforest Cafe at DS and Congress Park at SSR. So it would be for both.

Again, it’s probably 4 years old at this point, but it shows the plan was once there.

So per the reports though that would be the 2nd addition (so they have to do the AK/COR first). It would also be to Disney Springs not to OKW or SSR. I would also suspect that line would connect to the CBR station not go directly to Epcot or HS meaning a much longer travel time.

I see very little benefit of a Skyliner going to Disney Springs for SSR (not like SSR is compact like a RIV). There would be zero benefit for OKW in my mind.

Think of it this way its 15 mins from Epcot to CBR, 10 mins from CBR to Typhoon Lagoon, 10 mins from Typhoon Lagoon to Disney Springs.

Thats a 40 min trip from Disney Springs to Epcot. I would also question a possible room check to get on the Skyliner as well only for Skyliner resorts. They already don't do busses from Disney Springs to Parks to avoid the issue from my understanding.

 

[CastAStone]

OKW non-extended as an example of roughly a 15-20% reduction in resale value.

Currently extending contracts go for about 7% to 10% more. DVCresalemarket’s calculator pegs it at 8%. That roughly jives with a TVM calculation, by which every year after about year 15 becomes of extremely little value. 2070 expiration is inherently worth only about 17% more than 2042 expiration because of how little money you’d have to save now to buy that contract in the future.

Remember in 20 years pricing is going to be higher, point charts will be worse, and MFs will be higher at the new resorts.

I don’t agree with this at all. That’s certainly not what happened with copper creek. And the 3 cheapest MF DVC resorts all opened in the last 9 years.

Riviera is supposed to be the Ultimate Luxury DVC resort. That’s why the point charts are ridiculous.

 

[sethschroeder]

Currently extending contracts go for about 7% to 10% more

So I could easily get OKW for $80/point where as extended you are looking around $100 maybe you could get it down to $95? Are OKW extended contracts going for $85-$88/point?

I don’t agree with this at all. That’s certainly not what happened with copper creek.

Which was an exception where they matched a historical resort. We are also talking about 20 years from now on fully expiring resorts.

CCV was also the 4th MK resort in 8 years, in smaller rooms, with less occupancy, and with no ability to walk to park or with fancy new transportation method.

CCV price per point was also higher than BLT (closer to MK) and higher than VGF (viewed as crown jewel) and even higher than POLY (attached to TTC for quicker access to EPCOT).

CCV is a tier 2 resort for location compared to what BWV/BCV are.

Riviera is supposed to be the Ultimate Luxury DVC resort. That’s why the point charts are ridiculous.

Except comparing them to VGF/POLY/BLT and they are not out of line. There was a large increase of those resorts over the 2042 resorts and in 2042 those resorts will leapfrog as well.