Riviera resale restrictions lifting: possible

[mustinjourney]

They don't like it because it takes away from their direct sales and cause them administrative work (costs) without them getting anything in return.

This is actually a decent point -- setting up a new account does take time and effort on their end. Perhaps they should start adding in an administrative transfer fee to new resorts? $100-$200 would be reasonable.

 

[The Jackal]

This is actually a decent point -- setting up a new account does take time and effort on their end. Perhaps they should start adding in an administrative transfer fee to new resorts? $100-$200 would be reasonable.

How many hours does this take to charge $100-200. A couple clicks of a mouse and a little typing and done. When you buy resale aren't you already paying DVC a fee to set up, in closing costs?

 

[lovin'fl]

Here is food for thought. On another forum someone calculated the price per point (meaning if you buy direct now, what the price is over the life of the contract added to the 2020 annual dues). It is a rough idea of the direct value of each resort:

buy in price/ years left/price per point you get/2020 dues/value per point

#1 Saratoga Springs - $165 / 35 / $4.71 / $6.77 / $11.48

#2 Copper Creek - $220 / 49 / $4.49 / $7.45 / $11.94

#3 Polynesian - $245 / 47 / $5.21 / $6.79 / $12.00

#4 Riviera - $188 / 50 / 3.76 / $8.31 / 12.07

#5 Old Key West (Extended) - $165 / 38 / $4.34 / $7.84 / $12.18

#6 Grand Floridian - $255 / 45 / $5.67 / $6.56 / $12.23

#7 Bay Lake Tower - $235 / 41 / $5.73 / $6.58 / $12.31

#8 Animal Kingdom - $186 / 38 / $4.89 / $7.67 / $12.56

#9 Aulani - $188 / 43 / $4.37 / $8.33 / $12.70

#10 Grand Californian - $280 / 41 / $6.83 / $6.60 / $13.43

#11 Hilton Head - $135 / 23 / $5.87 / $9.10 / $14.97

#12 Vero Beach - $120 / 23 / $5.22 / $10.13 / $15.35

#13 Boulder Ridge - $186 / 23 / $8.09 / 7.78 / $15.87

#14 Boardwalk - $200 / 23 / $8.70 / $7.37 / $16.07

#15 Beach Club - $235 / 23 / $10.22 / $7.06 / $17.28

Then multiple the final value per point by the point cost of a room for, say, a week in choice season to see what a stay costs you. Compare various resorts. (And, FYI, SSR is THE best deal)

Then decide if that cost at RR is worth it WITH the resale restrictions.

 

[lovin'fl]

I am calculating above...standard studio for 1st 7 nights of Oct......only the WDW resorts:
1) $950 for OKW
2) $1056 for SSR...preferred views bump it down at $1269
3) $1105 for AKV...value views are a steal at $842 but club comes in at $1834
4) $1253 for BWV...preferred views bump it way down at $1719
5) $1278 for CCV
6) $1342 for BLT...lake views bump it down at $1576 and TPV comes in at $1859
7) $1424 for RR...preferred views bump down at $1786 but a tower studio is $1086 (if you can be lucky enough to grab one)
8) $1529 for GFV...lake views bump it down to bottom at $1871
9) $1560 for Poly...lake views bump to $1836
10) $1698 for BRV
11) $1849 for BCV

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Here is food for thought. On another forum someone calculated the price per point (meaning if you buy direct now, what the price is over the life of the contract added to the 2020 annual dues). It is a rough idea of the direct value of each resort:

buy in price/ years left/price per point you get/2020 dues/value per point

#1 Saratoga Springs - $165 / 35 / $4.71 / $6.77 / $11.48

#2 Copper Creek - $220 / 49 / $4.49 / $7.45 / $11.94

#3 Polynesian - $245 / 47 / $5.21 / $6.79 / $12.00

#4 Riviera - $188 / 50 / 3.76 / $8.31 / 12.07

#5 Old Key West (Extended) - $165 / 38 / $4.34 / $7.84 / $12.18

#6 Grand Floridian - $255 / 45 / $5.67 / $6.56 / $12.23

#7 Bay Lake Tower - $235 / 41 / $5.73 / $6.58 / $12.31

#8 Animal Kingdom - $186 / 38 / $4.89 / $7.67 / $12.56

#9 Aulani - $188 / 43 / $4.37 / $8.33 / $12.70

#10 Grand Californian - $280 / 41 / $6.83 / $6.60 / $13.43

#11 Hilton Head - $135 / 23 / $5.87 / $9.10 / $14.97

#12 Vero Beach - $120 / 23 / $5.22 / $10.13 / $15.35

#13 Boulder Ridge - $186 / 23 / $8.09 / 7.78 / $15.87

#14 Boardwalk - $200 / 23 / $8.70 / $7.37 / $16.07

#15 Beach Club - $235 / 23 / $10.22 / $7.06 / $17.28

Then multiple the final value per point by the point cost of a room for, say, a week in choice season to see what a stay costs you. Compare various resorts. (And, FYI, SSR is THE best deal)

Then decide if that cost at RR is worth it WITH the resale restrictions.

For sleep around points, this calculation essentially makes sense. You can play around with Time Value of Money in the equation, but it shouldn't make too material of a difference. Basically, Saratoga is the answer for sleep around points. Nothing else really matters.

For home resort points, you need to factor in the point charts. I made a post about a month ago that calculated the the Price Per Point Per Night. This was pre-2020 MF being released so the numbers may have changed a bit. https://www.disboards.com/threads/cost-per-point-per-year-per-night.3774285/

You will notice that something like Poly drops significantly because of it's high point chart.

 

[Sandisw]

Here is food for thought. On another forum someone calculated the price per point (meaning if you buy direct now, what the price is over the life of the contract added to the 2020 annual dues). It is a rough idea of the direct value of each resort:

buy in price/ years left/price per point you get/2020 dues/value per point

#1 Saratoga Springs - $165 / 35 / $4.71 / $6.77 / $11.48

#2 Copper Creek - $220 / 49 / $4.49 / $7.45 / $11.94

#3 Polynesian - $245 / 47 / $5.21 / $6.79 / $12.00

#4 Riviera - $188 / 50 / 3.76 / $8.31 / 12.07

#5 Old Key West (Extended) - $165 / 38 / $4.34 / $7.84 / $12.18

#6 Grand Floridian - $255 / 45 / $5.67 / $6.56 / $12.23

#7 Bay Lake Tower - $235 / 41 / $5.73 / $6.58 / $12.31

#8 Animal Kingdom - $186 / 38 / $4.89 / $7.67 / $12.56

#9 Aulani - $188 / 43 / $4.37 / $8.33 / $12.70

#10 Grand Californian - $280 / 41 / $6.83 / $6.60 / $13.43

#11 Hilton Head - $135 / 23 / $5.87 / $9.10 / $14.97

#12 Vero Beach - $120 / 23 / $5.22 / $10.13 / $15.35

#13 Boulder Ridge - $186 / 23 / $8.09 / 7.78 / $15.87

#14 Boardwalk - $200 / 23 / $8.70 / $7.37 / $16.07

#15 Beach Club - $235 / 23 / $10.22 / $7.06 / $17.28

Then multiple the final value per point by the point cost of a room for, say, a week in choice season to see what a stay costs you. Compare various resorts. (And, FYI, SSR is THE best deal)

Then decide if that cost at RR is worth it WITH the resale restrictions.

To add, if one buys at least 125 at RIV or AUL, the price will be less with incentives, But it is an interesting way to look at things.

 

[The Jackal]

I am calculating above...standard studio for 1st 7 nights of Oct......only the WDW resorts:
1) $950 for OKW
2) $1056 for SSR...preferred views bump it down at $1269
3) $1105 for AKV...value views are a steal at $842 but club comes in at $1834
4) $1253 for BWV...preferred views bump it way down at $1719
5) $1278 for CCV
6) $1342 for BLT...lake views bump it down at $1576 and TPV comes in at $1859
7) $1424 for RR...preferred views bump down at $1786
8) $1529 for GFV...lake views bump it down to bottom at $1871
9) $1560 for Poly...lake views bump to $1836
10) $1698 for BRV
11) $1849 for BCV

OKW wins in adventure and choice season, but SSR wins dream, magic and adventure season.

 

[Sandisw]

I am calculating above...standard studio for 1st 7 nights of Oct......only the WDW resorts:
1) $950 for OKW
2) $1056 for SSR...preferred views bump it down at $1269
3) $1105 for AKV...value views are a steal at $842 but club comes in at $1834
4) $1253 for BWV...preferred views bump it way down at $1719
5) $1278 for CCV
6) $1342 for BLT...lake views bump it down at $1576 and TPV comes in at $1859
7) $1424 for RR...preferred views bump down at $1786 but a tower studio is $1086 (if you can be lucky enough to grab one)
8) $1529 for GFV...lake views bump it down to bottom at $1871
9) $1560 for Poly...lake views bump to $1836
10) $1698 for BRV
11) $1849 for BCV

Great info! It allows someone to see, from a strictly certain set of rules, what it is costing To stay.

I think there is not question, thst SSR and OKW will always give you the best value and allow the stretching of points!

 

[lovin'fl]

For sleep around points, this calculation essentially makes sense. You can play around with Time Value of Money in the equation, but it shouldn't make too material of a difference. Basically, Saratoga is the answer for sleep around points. Nothing else really matters.

For home resort points, you need to factor in the point charts. I made a post about a month ago that calculated the the Price Per Point Per Night. This was pre-2020 MF being released so the numbers may have changed a bit. https://www.disboards.com/threads/cost-per-point-per-year-per-night.3774285/

You will notice that something like Poly drops significantly because of it's high point chart.

If one wants to sleep around it is best to buy one of the top few and use at that resort on down the list. If one buys the RR then they lose value to stay at SSR, CCV or Poly. And anyone buying BCV direct right now....they better use those ONLY for BCV. For best value.

For my own membership, it is good we use our HHI and BWV at those resorts almost 100% of the time. And the CCV we just used at AKV so we are getting a decent value from those. Those will be my sleep around points (sadly we love staying at SSR....should have bought there).

 

[lovin'fl]

To add, if one buys at least 125 at RIV or AUL, the price will be less with incentives, But it is an interesting way to look at things.

Yes, getting the incentives really puts it at a good deal to buy but not necessarily use there.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, getting the incentives really puts it at a good deal to buy but not necessarily use there.

Yup! It won’t affect it much in terms of cost to stay.

 

[emchen]

If one wants to sleep around it is best to buy one of the top few and use at that resort on down the list. If one buys the RR then they lose value to stay at SSR, CCV or Poly. And anyone buying BCV direct right now....they better use those ONLY for BCV. For best value.

For my own membership, it is good we use our HHI and BWV at those resorts almost 100% of the time. And the CCV we just used at AKV so we are getting a decent value from those. Those will be my sleep around points (sadly we love staying at SSR....should have bought there).

Couldn't agree more about sleep-around points (SAPs).

As a newbie who's only stayed at VGC so far, it is my plan to perpetually add-value to our SSR and AUL (subsidized) contracts by staying at the resorts below them on "the list".

BTW, AUL-subsidized contract on my personal rank list sits above SSR, ever-so-slightly ($8.47 v $9.11 pp/yr).

Being SoCal and within 90 minute driving distance from DLR, picking up last-minute VGC 1-BR villas is amazing value-added to my SAPs. For example, just picked up 1-BR today at VGC for 11/25 using my SSR contract. That's 39 points, using SSR contract = $355.29 | using VGC contract ($10.77 pp/yr) = $420.03. Difference of 15.4% or $64.74! Not too shabby...quick-service lunch for the five of us!

 

[DougEMG]

In summary, buying direct points at a resort other than when a resort is in their initial sales is usually a very expensive proposition. I kind of think that is Disney's purpose with pricing the "sold out" resorts so high, it makes the current resort look like a good deal.

 

[mustinjourney]

How many hours does this take to charge $100-200. A couple clicks of a mouse and a little typing and done. When you buy resale aren't you already paying DVC a fee to set up, in closing costs?

I'd imagine it takes at least 30 minutes to an hour -- especially if you count how many times the resale purchaser calls into MS trying to get their number. Plus there's a mailing and letter that is sent out with codes. $100 to $200 is not unreasonable.

I don't believe the closing costs for resale go to Disney at all. There's a $215 filing fee (I think that's the amount) that goes to the county, but other than that -- I am pretty sure the rest goes to the title company.

 

[mustinjourney]

I think there is not question, thst SSR and OKW will always give you the best value and allow the stretching of points!

My only comment is "always."

We don't know what MFs will do...as we have seen the last 2 years...things are not even across the board.

 

[mustinjourney]

In summary, buying direct points at a resort other than when a resort is in their initial sales is usually a very expensive proposition. I kind of think that is Disney's purpose with pricing the "sold out" resorts so high, it makes the current resort look like a good deal.

I bought 25 direct BCV 3 years ago when it was $165 and at the time, several posters said I was nuts paying that much for BCV...and even resale at >$100 was stupid.

I countered by saying the 25 direct was saving me $250 a year per AP ($1000 per year) -- so as of right now -- I have already "saved" more than $3000 on APs (now the savings is $420 per AP)...nevermind that I could probably sell those 25 points for $160 quite easily. Nevermind I've used like 100 points on that contract already....so between savings and usage...that contract has already paid for itself.

I say all that to note that even at these high prices -- it CAN make sense to buy direct for small purchases...although now that the minimum is 100 points...it greatly changes the math to be in less favor of these sold out resorts.

When I asked my guide what in the hell they were thinking with BCV at over $200...he straight up told me that they were trying to stop people from buying those resorts direct so that they would focus more on the current offering (and this was prior to Riviera going on sale). He was shocked people were still lining up for BCV/BWV regardless.

 

[kboo]

especially if you count how many times the resale purchaser calls into MS trying to get their number.

I say all that to note that even at these high prices -- it CAN make sense to buy direct for small purchases...although now that the minimum is 100 points...it greatly changes the math to be in less favor of these sold out resorts.

At 25 points, it was a common strategy. At 100, not so sure. When we called to add our 25 points direct over the phone, the guide sighed and said, "ah, you're doing the 25 points for perks thing. Ok ... "

 

[ELMC]

I bought 25 direct BCV 3 years ago when it was $165 and at the time, several posters said I was nuts paying that much for BCV...and even resale at >$100 was stupid.

I countered by saying the 25 direct was saving me $250 a year per AP ($1000 per year) -- so as of right now -- I have already "saved" more than $3000 on APs (now the savings is $420 per AP)...nevermind that I could probably sell those 25 points for $160 quite easily. Nevermind I've used like 100 points on that contract already....so between savings and usage...that contract has already paid for itself.

I say all that to note that even at these high prices -- it CAN make sense to buy direct for small purchases...although now that the minimum is 100 points...it greatly changes the math to be in less favor of these sold out resorts.

When I asked my guide what in the hell they were thinking with BCV at over $200...he straight up told me that they were trying to stop people from buying those resorts direct so that they would focus more on the current offering (and this was prior to Riviera going on sale). He was shocked people were still lining up for BCV/BWV regardless.

So much to unpack here.

First, I thought about doing the same thing with 25 BCV points direct before they upped the minimum for the blue card. I decided against it because I thought the cost was too high and I was already grandfathered in. Bad call on my part.

Second, what your guide says is fascinating. Purchasing sold-out resorts at those prices is enabling Disney to continue to jack up the prices on us. And they will. Oh yes, they will.

 

[ELMC]

At 25 points, it was a common strategy. At 100, not so sure. When we called to add our 25 points direct over the phone, the guide sighed and said, "ah, you're doing the 25 points for perks thing. Ok ... "

I'm assuing you were already grandfathered in because of your resale contracts...so what made you decide to do this too? This question can also be interpreted as "tell me why you are smart and I'm dumb".

 

[DaveNan]

I'm assuing you were already grandfathered in because of your resale contracts...so what made you decide to do this too? This question can also be interpreted as "tell me why you are smart and I'm dumb".

Can't speak for kboo directly, but for a few years, resale contracts did not get member benefits, but the minimum direct requirement was just 25 points. They went from - everyone gets benefits, resale or direct, to minimum 25 direct, to 75 direct, to where they are today, 100 direct. From around 2014 to 2018, you needed 25 direct to get member benefits. And the minimum purchase for current owners was 25 points. So there are alot of 25 point direct member benefit owners out there. Present company included.