S/O: 18 year olds

[mombrontrent]

Sometimes kids have to grow up faster than others. I'm glad that your 18-year old had landed on his feet {{hugs}}.

Oh he’s still got a long way to go, like I said the reasons he left my house we’re not positive ones. I think he needed a wake up call and he’s got it, he’s making ok money and can afford his bills but it’s tight and he hates his job but feels he’s stuck right now so he’s hanging in there. I think moving out and being on his own was good for him, he needed a reality check.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Except you fail to realize how big of a detriment that would be to our society as a whole. We can't go back and change the way things were set up. It's been age 18 for a long time as far as majority of things with the exception of a few things.

Who is going to pay for your individual who is now not an adult legally until they are 21?

Now you're going to force companies to completely overhaul things because if they aren't an adult until 21 it means they cannot sign contracts, they cannot do certain work-related things (such as I was not able to legally climb a ladder until I was 18), etc. Heck now they wouldn't be able to legally get housing which for many is what they consider a mark of being an adult (the ability to live on your own).

And now you're going to take medical decisions away from them because of an arbitrary number? Which 21 is an arbitrary number and so is 18 and so is 16 (when you can do other things as long as you have parental permission), and so is driving laws such as they are now-you can get a permit at age 14 in my state and that was largely because of farming but it still stands today. The only difference to when I was younger is you used to be able to get a full license at age 16 and now it's 17 with restricted licenses available if you are under 17. When the brain fully develops depends on individuals and also genders. It isn't a snap "oh you're 21 you're an adult" anymore than age 18 currently is.

I get your thinking I do but a cultural viewpoint of when someone is considered an adult is a lot different than actually changing a legal definition.

Think back to when you were that age between 18 and 21. Would you want any of those decisions you made to be removed from you?

Do you have kids who have been, are, or are approaching this age?

I think most of the people commenting here either do, or plan on, paying for the majority of the things our kids need until they are out of college.

I also think that if we were to change the legal age, existing contracts would be grandfathered in for the 3 year gap. I don't think it would be as difficult or life-changing as you are imagining. My mother was the age group that was allowed to purchase alcohol at 18, then had it repealed to 21. They all lived to tell the tale. I was in the age group when the law was made that nobody under 18 could purchase cigarettes. Not that I ever smoked, but I would have gotten over it and moved on with my life without a whole lot of angst.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Also, there is no argument for "it won't work in my area". That's silly. Both structures would work anywhere, there is no valid argument that either would work better in one area over another.

Actually yes there is. Funding for schooling and availability of good schooling varies all over the place so does the programs available. So does overall costs of many things.

What works in one area wouldn't necessarily work in another. As it stands a parent can opt to delay their child if they want to.

My daughter, born June 28th, is and had been more mature than most adults her whole life. But I'm not talking about that....I'm talking about everything else. Like how amazing it is to see all of the 14 year old girls in her 8th grade class making out with boys and vaping, and drinking, etc, while the "younger" girls are trying out makeup and learning to curl their hair, and "dating" boys at school for the first time and maybe holding hands and getting their first kiss. My daughter and her younger-aged friends have consistently been about 9 months (the age difference in months compared to the girls I am talking about) "behind" the oldest girls in their class. DD has always been more on par with the girls a grade younger, which totally makes sense because she is THEIR age. And it doesn't mean DD is behind, or delayed, or stupid.

Honestly though there has been and always will be kids doing things that other kids don't. That's just individuality. It's been happening for a long long time.

My sister-in-law who is currently 26 and her sister who is 21 in certain situations can be completely reversed.

21 year old sister-in-law, who's birthday is in January, lived with her boyfriend (now husband) when she was 15 years old in the basement of her parents house, she also smoked at age 17 and has recently tried to quit (because she wants kids) and now vapes but doesn't drink a lot actually I don't think she really drinks at all, she sure as heck though wears a lot more revealing clothing.

Conversely 26 year old sister in law, who's birthday is in August, didn't smoke, didn't really date much, def. didn't wear revealing clothing, but did drink a lot especially when she went to college. She was the elder of her friends because of her birthday being at the beginning of the school year.

 

[LSUmiss]

Except you fail to realize how big of a detriment that would be to our society as a whole. We can't go back and change the way things were set up. It's been age 18 for a long time as far as majority of things with the exception of a few things.

Who is going to pay for your individual who is now not an adult legally until they are 21?

Now you're going to force companies to completely overhaul things because if they aren't an adult until 21 it means they cannot sign contracts, they cannot do certain work-related things (such as I was not able to legally climb a ladder until I was 18), etc. Heck now they wouldn't be able to legally get housing which for many is what they consider a mark of being an adult (the ability to live on your own).

And now you're going to take medical decisions away from them because of an arbitrary number? Which 21 is an arbitrary number and so is 18 and so is 16 (when you can do other things as long as you have parental permission), and so is driving laws such as they are now-you can get a permit at age 14 in my state and that was largely because of farming but it still stands today. The only difference to when I was younger is you used to be able to get a full license at age 16 and now it's 17 with restricted licenses available if you are under 17. When the brain fully develops depends on individuals and also genders. It isn't a snap "oh you're 21 you're an adult" anymore than age 18 currently is.

I get your thinking I do but a cultural viewpoint of when someone is considered an adult is a lot different than actually changing a legal definition.

Think back to when you were that age between 18 and 21. Would you want any of those decisions you made to be removed from you?

As far as thinking back to when I was that age, plenty things in my life changed from what I expected or what they were supposed to be once I reached that age so that’s just part of life. But, I agree it would be complicated & don’t think it should be done immediately. I think it should be something that should be implemented over several years with some kind of grandfathering type periods.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Actually yes there is. Funding for schooling and availability of good schooling varies all over the place so does the programs available. So does overall costs of many things.

What works in one area wouldn't necessarily work in another. As it stands a parent can opt to delay their child if they want to.

Honestly though there has been and always will be kids doing things that other kids don't. That's just individuality. It's been happening for a long long time.

My sister-in-law who is currently 26 and her sister who is 21 in certain situations can be completely reversed.

21 year old sister-in-law, who's birthday is in January, lived with her boyfriend (now husband) when she was 15 years old in the basement of her parents house, she also smoked at age 17 and has recently tried to quit (because she wants kids) and now vapes but doesn't drink a lot actually I don't think she really drinks at all, she sure as heck though wears a lot more revealing clothing.

Conversely 26 year old sister in law, who's birthday is in August, didn't smoke, didn't really date much, def. didn't wear revealing clothing, but did drink a lot especially when she went to college. She was the elder of her friends because of her birthday being at the beginning of the school year.

12 years is 12 years. Having to fund 12 years of education doesn't change no matter if the kid starts at age 4 and completes their education at age 17, or starts at 6 and ends at 19 (which was my point to begin with - starting later and ending later could be beneficial), even in different areas. Kids still get 12 years of education. The QUALITY of the education is not an argument/subject on the table here in this thread, but I would definitely jump into that if you want to create a new thread on that topic!

The rest is just silly tit-for-tat arguments. I'm sure we can all go on all day about 'someone we know" that breaks the mold, and I've already said that while there are exceptions, the OVERALL pattern is there. I won't comment further.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Do you have kids who have been, are, or are approaching this age?

I think most of the people commenting here either do, or plan on, paying for the majority of the things our kids need until they are out of college.

I also think that if we were to change the legal age, existing contracts would be grandfathered in for the 3 year gap. I don't think it would be as difficult or life-changing as you are imagining. My mother was the age group that was allowed to purchase alcohol at 18, then had it repealed to 21. They all lived to tell the tale. I was in the age group when the law was made that nobody under 18 could purchase cigarettes. Not that I ever smoked, but I would have gotten over it and moved on with my life without a whole lot of angst.

No I don't have kids but yes the plan is to have kids soon. Unfortunately it's an immense pressure as I continue to get older but that's besides the point.

As for paying for the majority of things until kids are out of college--of course people would do that but not all. It's not a legal requirement by any means. Upping the age limit of being an adult would however force everyone to do that. Again who is going to pay for it--not just on a parental level but also on a society level.

Age to buy alcohol is a lot different than having majority of your abilities removed. The legal definition of an age was still 18 back then the drinking age was changed to 21. The PP was talking about the age of being a legal adult would be 21. That's a big difference.

Currently a few examples I can give is the recent adjustment in legal age to buy a gun in FL I believe and then for certain companies to say you have to be 21 to buy a gun at their store. In both cases one is still legally an adult but an adjustment was made to the age you can buy a gun. Then there is in my are where the smoking age is legally 18 but the age in certain cities to purchase tobacco products is 21. It however is not illegal, like it is with alcohol, to purchase tobacco products if you are 21 and older in those areas where that is the rule but give them to someone under the age of 21 since the smoking age is still age 18.

In both cases the legal age at which one is considered an adult is still 18.

As for grandfathering in..says who? I mean sometimes things are grandfathered in, somethings they aren't, sometimes laws are purposefully done for a future X date in order to let people get their affairs in order and sometimes they are retroactive laws. For something as large as making a legal age be 21 it would take multiple years to get affairs in order. Look how long it took for the age at which you are able to be still covered under your parent's health insurance policy took--and in part the financial consequences of doing so (only in part as obviously that is not the full issue).

 

[BLAZEY]

I think there is also a difference between women and men at this age too. Females mature to adulthood before males, finish developing at an earlier age. Parenting also has a lot to do with it. If you teach your child to do things for themselves and expect them to do it, then the will be more mature they will be.

 

[gotomu212]

Very deceptive preface to your question. Context might be of importance here. In many parts of Europe children were shipped off into apprenticeships at about 14 years old. Their apprenticeships frequently lasted about seven years. This was done for many reasons and crossed most economic barriers. For the mid to upper classes it was considered an education for a profession or trade, although in many cases they were simply used as labor or servants with no knowledge of professional value imparted. The lower classes did it as a way to avoid having another mouth to feed.

I’d also add that the standard was for men to be adults at 21. Women were often times married off at 13/14 and sent in their way, but since they couldn’t vote or hold property it didn’t really matter if they were legal adults.

As recently as the early 1900s girls could also get teaching degrees in some areas at 16 and off they went.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

No I don't have kids but yes the plan is to have kids soon. Unfortunately it's an immense pressure as I continue to get older but that's besides the point.

As for paying for the majority of things until kids are out of college--of course people would do that but not all. It's not a legal requirement by any means. Upping the age limit of being an adult would however force everyone to do that. Again who is going to pay for it--not just on a parental level but also on a society level.

Age to buy alcohol is a lot different than having majority of your abilities removed. The legal definition of an age was still 18 back then the drinking age was changed to 21. The PP was talking about the age of being a legal adult would be 21. That's a big difference.

Currently a few examples I can give is the recent adjustment in legal age to buy a gun in FL I believe and then for certain companies to say you have to be 21 to buy a gun at their store. In both cases one is still legally an adult but an adjustment was made to the age you can buy a gun. Then there is in my are where the smoking age is legally 18 but the age in certain cities to purchase tobacco products is 21. It however is not illegal, like it is with alcohol, to purchase tobacco products if you are 21 and older in those areas where that is the rule but give them to someone under the age of 21 since the smoking age is still age 18.

In both cases the legal age at which one is considered an adult is still 18.

As for grandfathering in..says who? I mean sometimes things are grandfathered in, somethings they aren't, sometimes laws are purposefully done for a future X date in order to let people get their affairs in order and sometimes they are retroactive laws. For something as large as making a legal age be 21 it would take multiple years to get affairs in order. Look how long it took for the age at which you are able to be still covered under your parent's health insurance policy took--and in part the financial consequences of doing so (only in part as obviously that is not the full issue).

This is like talking to my 17 year old son.

I'm out! Have a nice day!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As far as thinking back to when I was that age, plenty things in my life changed from what I expected or what they were supposed to be once I reached that age so that’s just part of life.

I was thinking of decisions you made, such as getting an apartment, making medical decisions for yourself, ability to sign contracts in general, ability to do things at work that minors are prohibited from doing, etc.

If you upped the age at which one was legally defined as an adult all of those decisions would have to change (unless you made exception after exception after exception to that rule). So I was asking if you would have liked those abilities removed from you because you were no longer considered legally an adult.

Not being able to legally buy alcohol, smoke or buy a gun for instance is a lot different to me at least than me not being able to live on my own without my mom signing off on it, without being able to make medical decisions because that would be up to my mom legally, to not hold a job who would not want to hire me because of limitations, to not be able to get a cell phone in my name, to not be able to buy a house because I couldn't legally sign a contract, etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is like talking to my 17 year old son.

I'm out! Have a nice day!

Hmm okay *love the insult on the way out instead of a more respectful "I'm out".

 

[barkley]

If you teach your child to do things for themselves and expect them to do it, then the will be more mature they will be.

of course every individual is different, but I wonder if the big difference I see between the 18/19/20 year olds now and the ones I came to age with in the late 70's-'life wise' (the practical knowledge based stuff of just day to day life) has anything to do with most schools eliminating any kind of 'life skills' based classes years and years ago and taking some of the things that we as students were solely responsible for-and shifting it to much more parental involvement.

I mean-when I went to school we were required to take a either a 'home economics' or a 'life skills' class. sure, it taught basics most of knew like simple cooking and how to do basic sewing repairs but we also discussed being a 'smart consumer' (ralph nader was popular then) by making smart spending decisions (on big stuff and with our grocery budgets), and how to make a budget, set short term and long term spending/savings goals, what a good credit record meant....we also were solely responsible for deciding what classes we were taking, and we spent one morning getting in line to sign up for classes each year. I don't remember the concept of parent/teacher conferences after about 5th grade-unless you got in trouble. by the time we went to college we knew how to structure a class schedule.

with my kids (21/almost 24) the only thing that came close to home ec/life skills in high school was what was offered to special ed kids (my son had 'life skills' as part of his iep) but it wasn't even an elective for anyone else. they did have to take a 'current world issues' class but it was large global issues whereas I think they would have done better to include discussions of u.s. job markets for high school grads vs. college, determining if the cost of a particular college major (and private vs. public) was financially sound, trends in housing rental/purchasing markets, credit pitfalls.....when it came to choosing classes the parents were notified of the planned offerings before the kids, sent forms that they were encouraged to fill out for the kids on the classes they wanted them to take, parents had to attend yearly open houses and 3 half days a semester were devoted to parent/teacher conferences-just way more parental driven decision making.

i'm all for parental involvement but it just seems like allot of these young 'adults' don't know how to make the simplest decision, or that in some cases a decision has to be made. I don't know that raising the age of adulthood is the answer-maybe it's better preparing them for adulthood's realities.

 

[Southernmiss]

As to the medical ability over the age of 18...DS 20 is undergoing some medical issues right now at college. He has had no clue how and what to do for his own care or the paperwork and bill paying that is put before him. While he has to sign off on the documents, there's always a phone call and question to me of what is this? What should I do, etc.? Medical care in the US has become so complex in the last 20 years that it is mind boggling to me, much less our 20 year old.

And his bills-as a college student all medical bills are in his name, however, he has no funds to pay the bills. So DH and I are. Not much he can pay on a full time college student no pay salary.

Our world has gotten much more difficult than it was before. And in some ways, society has created a time when kids over 18 just don't have the world experience or knowledge to know the answers, no matter how mature they are.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't know that raising the age of adulthood is the answer-maybe it's better preparing them for adulthood's realities.

I can get behind that. It's unfortunate that schools have typically cut things back on extras, usually due to resources available, so that could make it harder to have separate classes. I wish school funding wasn't such a hotbed thing but it's been quite a large issue in my state for several years.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Yeah. I understand that’s what you meant now. However, IMO, if it proved to be better for the child that they start later, that would just be part of the cost of having children that one needs to consider. I’m not saying it is better b/c I have no idea. I was responding to the pp’s suggestion that it might be. There would have to be research to support this, of course.

Just look at Finland. They don't start until age seven, but catch up and beat us by high school. (I know there are other factors, too, involving different levels of schooling, but I definitely think they've got it right on waiting for the pressured stuff.)

But even though I agree that formal schooling should start later, I do see the point of there being quality non-academic childcare available through the school system. Of course little kids need what's right for them educationally, but they also need to eat.

 

[Southernmiss]

of course every individual is different, but I wonder if the big difference I see between the 18/19/20 year olds now and the ones I came to age with in the late 70's-'life wise' (the practical knowledge based stuff of just day to day life) has anything to do with most schools eliminating any kind of 'life skills' based classes years and years ago and taking some of the things that we as students were solely responsible for-and shifting it to much more parental involvement.

I mean-when I went to school we were required to take a either a 'home economics' or a 'life skills' class. sure, it taught basics most of knew like simple cooking and how to do basic sewing repairs but we also discussed being a 'smart consumer' (ralph nader was popular then) by making smart spending decisions (on big stuff and with our grocery budgets), and how to make a budget, set short term and long term spending/savings goals, what a good credit record meant....we also were solely responsible for deciding what classes we were taking, and we spent one morning getting in line to sign up for classes each year. I don't remember the concept of parent/teacher conferences after about 5th grade-unless you got in trouble. by the time we went to college we knew how to structure a class schedule.

with my kids (21/almost 24) the only thing that came close to home ec/life skills in high school was what was offered to special ed kids (my son had 'life skills' as part of his iep) but it wasn't even an elective for anyone else. they did have to take a 'current world issues' class but it was large global issues whereas I think they would have done better to include discussions of u.s. job markets for high school grads vs. college, determining if the cost of a particular college major (and private vs. public) was financially sound, trends in housing rental/purchasing markets, credit pitfalls.....when it came to choosing classes the parents were notified of the planned offerings before the kids, sent forms that they were encouraged to fill out for the kids on the classes they wanted them to take, parents had to attend yearly open houses and 3 half days a semester were devoted to parent/teacher conferences-just way more parental driven decision making.

i'm all for parental involvement but it just seems like allot of these young 'adults' don't know how to make the simplest decision, or that in some cases a decision has to be made. I don't know that raising the age of adulthood is the answer-maybe it's better preparing them for adulthood's realities.

In reading this thread, I was thinking along the same lines. I would like to see more practical how to life skills taught in high school. Maybe if needed, to extend the time in high school by a year just to squeeze in some of these things.

My kids have been in academic pushed paths in high school and we have tried to teach life skills as they have presented natural opportunities at home, but not everything has come up to show them or teach them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As to the medical ability over the age of 18...DS 20 is undergoing some medical issues right now at college. He has had no clue how and what to do for his own care or the paperwork and bill paying that is put before him. While he has to sign off on the documents, there's always a phone call and question to me of what is this? What should I do, etc.? Medical care in the US has become so complex in the last 20 years that it is mind boggling to me, much less our 20 year old.

And his bills-as a college student all medical bills are in his name, however, he has no funds to pay the bills. So DH and I are. Not much he can pay on a full time college student no pay salary.

Our world has gotten much more difficult than it was before. And in some ways, society has created a time when kids over 18 just don't have the world experience or knowledge to know the answers, no matter how mature they are.

That's an individual thing though too. I've been filling out my medical forms since I was 15/16 with my mom sitting next to me.

But I don't think anyone out there would say that once you magically turn X age you no longer can call anyone for clarification or for guidance and if you did so you weren't an adult. Otherwise anytime there is a car problem my mom wouldn't be considered an adult since she typically calls me to see if I've run into that issue before on my car (which has been a labor of love for a while) or if my husband and I can help her out with it.

But anyone who runs into a medical issue who is of legal age can actually make that decision for themselves. I don't think anyone would make a decision without the doctor talking to them about it so you're still getting medical guidance and you may even be discussing it with your loved ones. But if you raised the age to 21 for instance the ability to personally make that decision would now fall on the parent or guardian. One of my friends was 19 when she had breast reduction surgery and while I don't think her mom would have ever said no (because good lord she was in such immense pain for years) if you raised the limit to 21 for instance the ability to have personally made that decision, what cup size to go down to, and when to do the surgery would have legally been left out of her hands.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I wonder if the big difference I see between the 18/19/20 year olds now and the ones I came to age with in the late 70's-'life-wise'...

...And in some ways, society has created a time when kids over 18 just don't have the world experience or knowledge to know the answers, no matter how mature they are.

Excellent points as well! Sure, we've learned more about the brain, but I also think maybe we've caused a lot of this by the way we raise kids nowadays. Most don't have the more gradual chances to do things on their own that we had as kids - playing outside unsupervised, walking to school, really contributing around the house. Kids are busy with all sorts of things today, but they're very different things than we used to do - and consequently, they prepare kids for different things, and in a different order.

 

[LSUmiss]

As to the medical ability over the age of 18...DS 20 is undergoing some medical issues right now at college. He has had no clue how and what to do for his own care or the paperwork and bill paying that is put before him. While he has to sign off on the documents, there's always a phone call and question to me of what is this? What should I do, etc.? Medical care in the US has become so complex in the last 20 years that it is mind boggling to me, much less our 20 year old.

And his bills-as a college student all medical bills are in his name, however, he has no funds to pay the bills. So DH and I are. Not much he can pay on a full time college student no pay salary.

Our world has gotten much more difficult than it was before. And in some ways, society has created a time when kids over 18 just don't have the world experience or knowledge to know the answers, no matter how mature they are.

I agree completely. At that age, I still heavily relied on my parents for advice on how to do those basic life things. Although it would add a burden to parents who aren’t already doing this, I think raising the legal age would help young ppl b/c so many are pushed out at 18 b/c they have parents who do just the legal minimum. I’ve known 18-20 yr olds who were homeless b/c of just this. Parents weren’t legally required to do anything, but kids didn’t have the resources to be self-sustaining yet.

 

[AppleDumpling]

This issue is one that’s complex and is really a tough call. As others have said, each person, even those of the same age, can have different levels of maturity, influenced by the way they were raised and their individual circumstances, as well as their natural personality.

I agree that whatever the age of adulthood is determined to be, there should be consistency. Clearly it makes no sense that someone who can vote and join the military is forbidden from having a drink. I don’t think there’s an easy answer. Maybe a compromise would be best. Instead of 18 or 21, make it 19 or 20?