Sitting with kids on the plane

[DISNEYFOS]

I disagree. The burden is on the parent not to put the child in a situation she or he cannot handle.

And if the child has never flown how do you know whether they can or can not handle it?

For what's it worth, my children have flown 3 or 4 times a year since they were born...We've never had any problem, they handle flying fine..We've also never been separated.

Regardless of what people want to believe young children do need supervision and someone to care for their basic needs and you really can't predict 100% of the time when they will need it. I've been on flights were the seat belt sign never goes off.

Its obvious we will all need to agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[mjkacmom]

I really don't see a molester or worse a ped..... buying a ticket for a few hundred dollars to get near a child.
The chance that he even comes close to a child is almost zero. In such a close environment hell would brake loose if the even tried.

I agree - I don't see this as a reason why a child should not fly without an adult. Using this rationale, children should never be in the presence of others without an adult. Children should certainly not attend school, go to Sunday school, attend practices, go to scout meetings... All of these activities have a much higher rate of child molestation. Children should not be allowed to go to other children's homes without their parents. Forget birthday parties.

My dd13 is much more likely to deal with a pervert at the movies, and yet, she goes to the movies. I'm not by her side every waking minute of the day. In fact, none of my kids are home - they are in school, with potential adult molesters in the building. Maybe I should homeschool - Larry the janitor is starting to creep me out...

 

[NotUrsula]

My first flight ever I was seated between a sleeping nun and a drunk Asian man.
I was terrified for then hours and my bladder was hurting.
I made myself and my family a promise: Never ever again. We pay for bulkhead and no one will get us out of them seats.

Ah, but the prize-winning question is: which one were you afraid of?

(Can you tell I went to Catholic school?)

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You know, the more this argument goes 'round and 'round, the more bemused I feel about how much people are worrying about things that are VERY unlikely to happen. Rules are rules, and we should be prepared for all eventualities (which is why I carry mini-packets of cookies and wrapped lollipops while on planes -- even when my own children are NOT with me), but there is what COULD happen, and then there is what is LIKELY to happen, and as parents, we need to keep that in perspective.

In reality, children under 5 pretty much NEVER get seated alone. Older children, yes, but not little ones. because ...

The fact is that IME, in practice, an FA will move heaven and earth to get a preschooler seated with a parent. The FA's do not want the responsibility of keeping them happy and making sure that they do not disturb other passengers, nor do they want to have to worry about toileting them or caring for them in an emergency. (Because contrary to all that teeth-gnashing about a neighboring passenger not being willing to save your child, the rule is that the CREW are responsible for making sure that all passengers get the help that they need to get off the plane in an emergency. The FA's will save the children if they need saving, as the crew won't leave the plane until everyone is out. The rule about carseats is special because carseats can be tricky -- the FAA wants to be sure that the person responsible already knows how the latches on that seat work.)

I fly quite a lot, and I've never been on a flight where bribery failed to work to get a preschooler seated with one parent. Someone WILL move if the FA sufficiently sweetens the deal.

PS: I've been willing to cut Scuba some slack for awhile now, ever since he posted the ages of his kids. When they are that young it's quite hard to imagine a time when they will be fine on their own for awhile, but it comes sooner than most parents expect, and honestly, it's wonderful when it does, because your stress level decreases considerably.

PPS: The cookies and lollipops don't get gifted without parental permission, but mostly I give them to parents who didn't think to bring their own, and who are having no luck quieting a child without them.

 

[Disneyadore]

Ah, but the prize-winning question is: which one were you afraid of?

(Can you tell I went to Catholic school?)

Me to with real nuns in habits and we had to call them "
soeur" in French

Guess that trauma will last for ever and ever.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I really don't see a molester or worse a ped..... buying a ticket for a few hundred dollars to get near a child.
The chance that he even comes close to a child is almost zero. In such a close environment hell would brake loose if the even tried.

ITA my Dutch/German friend

And if the child has never flown how do you know whether they can or can not handle it?

.

Well you should know whether or not they can handle sitting quietly and entertaining themselves for a few hours. You should know if they can open their backpacks and get their own snacks. You should know if they panic when in a ropm with strangers and out of your sight.

PPS: The cookies and lollipops don't get gifted without parental permission, but mostly I give them to parents who didn't think to bring their own, and who are having no luck quieting a child without them.

I bet you are a saint in the eyes of many forgetful parents Yes, the reality IS that it is very rare for preschoolers to be seperated from parents (which I think is good). However, it does happen (more often than planes make emegency landings or crash!) so it is good for parents to be prepared for the possiblity.

 

[PiperPizzaz]

OP, just wanted to let you know we checked into our Airtran flight at the 24 hour mark and got 3 seats right together.

 

[Drusilla]

how much people are worrying about things that are VERY unlikely to happen.

Most things we worry about never happen anyway.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I also was fond about finding the one about continental putting kids on the wrong plane......I'm certain that wouldn't have bothered anyone of you advocating allowing someone else responsibility of your kids

Then, apparently, despite extensive conversations you do not 'know' any of us or what bothers us. Nobody - here or elsewhere - would defend Continental's mistake. However, such incidents are so rare that they're newsworthy.

I would say i've been getting crushed 3-4 folks have jumped in, remember you all might think it's silly for me to advocate for legislation not allowing kids unsupervised on planes, I think its just as silly for a parent to stick a kid on a plane and send them thousands of miles away.......

Specifically? Yes, it's silly for you to advocate for legislation preventing anyone under any age from being unaccompanied on an airplane. The government disagrees with you, the airlines disagree with you, the FAA disagrees with you (no, I don't have sources - I can easily deduce based on the fact that unaccompanied minors ARE allowed to be airline passengers). It's NOT silly for you to not allow your OWN children to fly unaccompanied, but that's it.
As for allowing others to be responsible for one's children in a closed and secure environment, sure. The minor must be accompanied to the gate by a parent or guardian and turned over to the care of a Flight Attendant when it's time to board (having waited with the child to that point). The minor gets situated safely by the FA; the other passengers board, the plane is sealed, it flies to its destination, and the child is turned over to the care of a prearranged adult with identification, by an airline or airport employee.

stories I read last night said the fee was a fee, and not babysitting

I thought we made that clear in this thread. There's about one Flight Attendant for every fifty passengers/seats. The airline isn't going to add, and pay, an employee to sit with a UM, and those Flight Attendants are responsible for the safety of EVERY passenger on the plane. They can check on the UM regularly, but not provide individual attention. I'm not sure where you got the impression that the airline provides babysitting services, especially given the closed environment.

scan other message boards.....alot of folks feel the way I do, alot feel the way you do, be happy in the fact that you can still do it....after all i'm not the one making the rules right?

Oh, wow - that almost sounds like a threat, as if you have something planned or some inside knowledge that the procedure will end. Correct, you're NOT the one making the rules. You can make rules for your own children, but not for the other 300,000,000 U.S. residents.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Regardless of what people want to believe young children do need supervision and someone to care for their basic needs and you really can't predict 100% of the time when they will need it. I've been on flights were the seat belt sign never goes off.

But I bet your definition of 'young child' differs from scuba's by at least eight or ten years?

 

[kaytieeldr]

OP, just wanted to let you know we checked into our Airtran flight at the 24 hour mark and got 3 seats right together.

And this is probably the most appropriate response in this entire thread (well, after my "take the exit row seats and trade on the plane" recommendation )

 

[crashbb]

OP, just wanted to let you know we checked into our Airtran flight at the 24 hour mark and got 3 seats right together.

Have a great flight!

And a fun time at WDW.

 

[PiperPizzaz]

Have a great flight!

And a fun time at WDW.

Thanks! It should be fun. Still trying to pack but, where am I? On the computer, ha ha.

 

[sherabby]

We flew AirTran out of Pittsburgh in 2007 and we had no seats together. I was also told that they were not permitted to ask customers to move seats that I had to do it if I wanted to sit with my son. It was his first flight and I was ready to walk off because no one would let me sit with him. Finally a mom of teens said she would move to my seat. Boy was I relieved and thankful she switched.

 

[tara32]

how alone do you mean? september 30th we flew out of halifax and we were split up on continental to newark. ds is 2 dd is 4. dh had 17a i had 18a, and the kids were across the aisle in 18b and 18c.

they refused to change it. there was no ifs ands or buts about it. they had a full flight and would not ask anyone to change up or switch us. thankfully one slept and the other moved to sit on daddys lap.

well, I would consider having seats 18a,b, and c sitting together.

 

[acpalmer]

Why didn't you just tell her where you would be seated and not to hesitate to come get you if he had any probelms? That's what I do when I sit apart from my children on planes (as well as checking on them when the seat belt sign is off). And yes, my DS has asthma too. I know it can be very scary at times, but if I stayed at his elbow all the time "just in case" then he would not have much of a life would he? I think it is rude the way you foisted your child's health problems onto the lady in order to get her to give up her seat after she turned your request down. If you truly do not feel your child can safely sit in another part of the plane and let you know if an emergency arises (what does he do if his asthma or blood sugar acts up while he is alone in his room at home?) then you should have deplaned and waited for another flight.

Circumstances have seperated us too. It happens when you fly a lot. Maybe we could have sat together more often if I felt entilted to make a stink about it--but hoenstly my kdis generally have nmo more right to an airplain seat than any one else does. The ONLY time I have really made an issue of it was when we were rebooked onto a full fligth in October 2001 after my son fell at the airport and had to go get 5 staples in his head before we could fly home. Since we were moved last minute we were in 4 middle seats scattered all over the plane. The line of people at the podium asking to sit together was at least 20 deep (and many of those people had kids in the 10 and up crowd). When I finally got up from carrying my bandaged 2 year old with blood stains all over my shirt and the hospital paperwork and explained that they cleared us to fly but I really needed to be WITH the 2 year old, the gate agent looked distressed but kept reiterating the same line about having no ability to do anything. A wonderful couple sitting near the desk heard/saw me and offered their seats to me. My four year old still had to sit alone on that flight (the third person in our row did not want to change to a middle seat way in the back--I don't blame them). I really felt for her because I knew she was scared and worreid about her brother, plus this was very soon after 9/11; but she handled it.

It seems to me that even if your DS has asthma, you aren't actually aware of my child's medical history, the severity of his asthma (and yes, some can be more severe than others), his particular triggers, or his particular medical condition that day. To assume that I never leave his elbow or don't allow him to have a life is rather out of line since you don't actually know much about the situation that day. I didn't think that I needed to post his medical file online when my point was only that the airlines will not necessarily help and they don't have a problem with kids sitting alone.

As for deplaning, we asked about other flights before we got on the plane when we realized he wouldn't be seated with any of us and were informed that because of bookings, it could likely be three or four days later before they would be able to get us home and this flight was really our only option.

And I didn't foist my son's medical condition on the lady to get her to move--at that point I was under the belief that she would be sitting there and I knew someone was going to have to help this child at take-off and landing (air pressure changes are a huge trigger and knowing what his asthma was doing that particular day and how he has reacted to take-off and landing before--regardless of that "pressurized" cabin, there are pressure changes that are pretty rapid) when the flight attendants are not available and she could not get out of her seat to get me, nor could I get out of mine to help him. She seemed the most logical choice at the time.

He had just barely turned five at the time and if he had been in the medical condition that he was THAT DAY, he wouldn't have been alone in his room. As I said in my post, most of them time he can manage his asthma just fine. This day, this situation, would not have been one of those times. And as it turned out--what happened wouldn't have been something that he could deal with on his own without adult help. Each day is different--you had a particular day where your son was injured and needed you, I had this day where my son needed me. Interesting that you say your family had that situation while assuming that mine could not have...

 

[scuba]

Here is the crux of my issue, just because the goverment hasn't legislation on the issue doesn't mean its still a good idea, just means there have not been enough reportable problems to decide about a new policy, however if you still keep putting kids on the wrong plane, and kids flying alone start accusing more folks of molestation, then I can 100% guarantee you that lawyers and lawmakers would indeed start to look at the policy, katyieelder,A threat? I don't even know how to respond to that? it wasn't a threat, just be happy you can drop off your kids alone and fly them half way across the country, nothing more nothing less, but the above still applies.....after all I never was placed in a car seat as a child. it might have been ok then but now? just because there isn't legislation preventing it doesn't mean it's a good idea. I don't need the govement making me wear a helmet in Ohio, it's just a good idea....no helmet law in Ohio above the age of 16, I think...I don't have a 16 year old yet......as for kids flying alone, tend to believe that it's not a very good idea...on the surface. I cannot fathom a senerio where my 5 or even 10 year old would come running to me advocating me putting them on a plane alone to go to Grandma's, I will just have to cross that bridge if we come to it, but I'm not busy enough in my adult life that I couldn't accommodate my childs desire to see Grandma and have me go with

lastly I thank notUrsula for cutting me some slack, We have a 2 and a 4 year old daughter, and still fell that 5 is way too young...and infact maybe as old as 10. I would concede that 17 was alittle foolish, however there are responsible 16 year old drivers out there, yet many states are looking to raise the age limit to 18. I did indeed run all over germany on transit buses and trains at the 16-17 year old age. so I will indeed concede that, as an adult do have a sterotype of a certain 17 year old that I wouldn't trust renting a movie from me...i'm certain that some of you have seen those types.

lastly, 5-10 year olds flying alone...way too young. yes we have indeed clarified that the airlines are not babysitters, so using that logic, no one should have been upset if airline workers, "provided" information to kids directing them to the wrong airplane, I have never gotten on the wrong airplane thus, If the airlines attempted to put a kid on the plane shouldn't the kid had said...wait this is the wrong flight? I assume this was a connecting flight?, I would assume there was a slight element of babysitting involved with minors traveling alone, especially on conecting flights which some airlines allow. Look we cannot have it both ways, either the minors are self suffecient or the airlines are babysitting.

I will leave you with this. I have taken care of a child in my ER who had a violent adjustment disorder where the child had a history of comments regarding killing children, had actually held knives to his younger siblings, he was being managed at home by parents that indeed needed to be managed by other adults.......the kid was 7. Well within the airlines policies of traveling alone, would you want him on your plane? and with the understanding that the airlines are not babysitters? I also concede now that there are thousand of kids that could indeed travel alone....but who is policing the parents to make said decision?.....And for those of you who have virtually described airline cabins to be both a place were smelly angry people and drunkards reside, where folks are cramming bags in overhead bins and dropping things on peoples heads and not letting my child sit with me because of a medical condition, then why in the world would you want to put your kid alone in that or even 5 rows away?

 

[crashbb]

I will leave you with this. I have taken care of a child in my ER who had a violent adjustment disorder where the child had a history of comments regarding killing children, had actually held knives to his younger siblings, he was being managed at home by parents that indeed needed to be managed by other adults.......the kid was 7. Well within the airlines policies of traveling alone, would you want him on your plane? and with the understanding that the airlines are not babysitters?

The fact that they are seven has nothing to do with not wanting them on the plane. My view of whether or not they should be on the plane would have NOTHING do with their age, but everything to do with their mental instability. If they were that mentally unstable I would not want them on the plane unaccompanied if they were 7, 17, 27, 37, or 97.

That example is entirely spurious to the conversation.

 

[mjkacmom]

lastly, 5-10 year olds flying alone...way too young. yes we have indeed clarified that the airlines are not babysitters, so using that logic, no one should have been upset if airline workers, "provided" information to kids directing them to the wrong airplane, I have never gotten on the wrong airplane thus, If the airlines attempted to put a kid on the plane shouldn't the kid had said...wait this is the wrong flight? I assume this was a connecting flight?, I would assume there was a slight element of babysitting involved with minors traveling alone, especially on conecting flights which some airlines allow. Look we cannot have it both ways, either the minors are self suffecient or the airlines are babysitting.

I will leave you with this. I have taken care of a child in my ER who had a violent adjustment disorder where the child had a history of comments regarding killing children, had actually held knives to his younger siblings, he was being managed at home by parents that indeed needed to be managed by other adults.......the kid was 7. Well within the airlines policies of traveling alone, would you want him on your plane? and with the understanding that the airlines are not babysitters? I also concede now that there are thousand of kids that could indeed travel alone....but who is policing the parents to make said decision?.....And for those of you who have virtually described airline cabins to be both a place were smelly angry people and drunkards reside, where folks are cramming bags in overhead bins and dropping things on peoples heads and not letting my child sit with me because of a medical condition, then why in the world would you want to put your kid alone in that or even 5 rows away?

The first time dd flew alone, she was 11, and although I didn't have to pay the fee, because she was old enough not to need it, I did, just in case. When you pay the fee, you are told that the airline will make sure they get to where they need to get to. You are paying for this service. As for raising the driving age, it's because studies show that older teens have less accidents. UM's aren't flying the planes! And I really don't think a parent of a mentally ill child is going to put them on a plane - you are way more likely to encounter mentally ill adults, who've paid for their own ticket.

The reason we here about events like children being put on the wrong plane, or being molested, is because these incidents are SO RARE, they're newsworthy. You are not going to hear "breaking news, teen crashes car into tree, breaking the headlight" because these event are common.

Is there anyone on this incredibly long thread who agrees with you?

 

[NHdisneylover]

It seems to me that even if your DS has asthma, you aren't actually aware of my child's medical history, the severity of his asthma (and yes, some can be more severe than others), his particular triggers, or his particular medical condition that day. To assume that I never leave his elbow or don't allow him to have a life is rather out of line since you don't actually know much about the situation that day. I didn't think that I needed to post his medical file online when my point was only that the airlines will not necessarily help and they don't have a problem with kids sitting alone.

As for deplaning, we asked about other flights before we got on the plane when we realized he wouldn't be seated with any of us and were informed that because of bookings, it could likely be three or four days later before they would be able to get us home and this flight was really our only option.

And I didn't foist my son's medical condition on the lady to get her to move--at that point I was under the belief that she would be sitting there and I knew someone was going to have to help this child at take-off and landing (air pressure changes are a huge trigger and knowing what his asthma was doing that particular day and how he has reacted to take-off and landing before--regardless of that "pressurized" cabin, there are pressure changes that are pretty rapid) when the flight attendants are not available and she could not get out of her seat to get me, nor could I get out of mine to help him. She seemed the most logical choice at the time.

He had just barely turned five at the time and if he had been in the medical condition that he was THAT DAY, he wouldn't have been alone in his room. As I said in my post, most of them time he can manage his asthma just fine. This day, this situation, would not have been one of those times. And as it turned out--what happened wouldn't have been something that he could deal with on his own without adult help. Each day is different--you had a particular day where your son was injured and needed you, I had this day where my son needed me. Interesting that you say your family had that situation while assuming that mine could not have...

You are right--I do not know your sons medical history. I pointed out my son has asthma becuase very often on these boards it is assumed that those who would do things differently have no experience with having a child with a medical condition.
As you pointed out, I have been in a situation where due to a medical issue I NEEDED to sit with my then 2 year old son on the flight. I believe I did state that had no one been willing to move seats I would have deplaned (and and actually we would not have gotten out for at least two days then either). Yes we had jobs to get back to and could not afford a hotel--BUT my child's life is more important than all of that. I am sure you feel the same about your child. Any decent person does, eh?
I do wonder would you have truly left your son in his seat and gone to your own had the otehr passenger said "okay" after you told her how to help him? Were you honestly trying to give her information to use? Would you have gone to your seat and left him by this woman if she had said she would help him? Or, were you hoping this would make her change seats with you? What if she had said, she was not going to be responisble for his care and still refused to move? I guess to me it sounds like your son was in a really bad way that day and it must have been scary and a tought decision to fly at all. I am glad I was not you that day. None the less, it sounds like you pretty much told someone that she had to either give up her seat, which she had every right to and had made clear she had every right to, OR take on your child's medical condition which really is not any of her responsibility.

scuba-I don't want anyone like that on my flight. I suppose if I had to have such a person--a young child who would be more easily restrained if needed is better than an adult. Then again, honestly, I don't want a child that dangerous in school with my child, on the playground with my child, etc. That is not really how life works though, is it?

 

[acpalmer]

I do wonder would you have truly left your son in his seat and gone to your own had the otehr passenger said "okay" after you told her how to help him? Were you honestly trying to give her information to use? Would you have gone to your seat and left him by this woman if she had said she would help him? Or, were you hoping this would make her change seats with you? What if she had said, she was not going to be responisble for his care and still refused to move?

Yes, I would have left him there after explaining it because as I was going over the information, the man sitting next to her said that if she wasn't willing to help, he would be willing to do it for him. It was after that man said he would help if she wouldn't that she said "fine, I'll just switch seats if he actually has health issues". I think she had thought at first that I was lying about it when I explained why I was asking if she would be willing to switch I don't honestly know. But yes, I felt comfortable that the other gentleman (who had told me quite nicely when I had asked him about switching so that I could be in the same row that he really needed a window seat because of airsickness and since I was in an aisle, that wouldn't work as well for him--fair enough, I had no problem with that) would have watched out for my son if that had been the case.