Southwest adds charge to board sooner

[ExPirateShopGirl]

It's against Federal Aviation Regulations and permitting a ticketed child over the age of two to sit on a passenger's lap can subject an airline to a hefty fine.... not to mention jeopardizing the safety of passengers and the child alike. See Also: When Your Baby Becomes a Missile

We actually just flew into MCO on Jetblue a few weeks ago. We flew with friends of the family who have an almost 3 yr old. He had a seat of course, but sat on his father's lap during take off. Because I read these boards I expected the FA to inform them that he needed to sit in his own seat. They did not care and walked by about a 8 times to make sure people's seat belts were on and such.

I think it just depends on the flight. I think in this instance they the boy was asleep and just looked so comfortable that they did not want to disturb him.

 

[kevschickee]

Wow I can't believe this post is still going on lol

 

[yitbos96bb]

I flew SW to & from MCO last year. We checked in on a blackberry from Sea World at the 24 hour mark. It wasn't working & took forever & I could hardly handle the stress of it. I so prefer an assigned seat! We travelled in a large group, and some members of the group boarded earlier than others (All were in A). We were able to save seats in between & all end up together. Nothing went to lost & found. No one was visibly upset. There were plenty of other seats. Frankly, given the number of kids in our group I would have been stunned if someone had chosen to seat themselves in the middle of us.

I think that the age for pre-boarding would be more reasonable at 6 than 4, but frankly I want to sit with my 7 & 8 yr olds, too.

I travel with my family. The more unlikely or expensive SW makes it for me to sit with them, the more business I give Jet Blue. If I were already holding a SW ticket when this was implemented I would be ticked.

Its a trade off though depending on baggage and everything else. I don't get why THIS ticks people off but being raped by nickel and dime baggage fees and drink fees and looking out the window fees and sneezing fees don't make you equally upset. I give Jet Blue credit they only charge for the second bag but they just jacked up that to $30 now and I'll bet its only a matter of time till they charge for the first bag. Those fees to me are way more ridiculous than the EB option. We went from way to pricey with regulation to way terrible service with dergulation. Someone needs to find a happy medium, especially with this Stuck on the tarmac garbage.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Oh my gosh - I cannot believe the responses of some on here - first of all for those that are going to "save" seats for their family - my family is going to be the first to sit in those seats if that is what is available. You have paid for 1 to be seated EB - not your whole family. If you really want your whole family to most likely be together - spit out the $10 for each family member. Don't cheat the system. For all of you that are so upset by all of this - fly a different airline - simple as that. I do think that it was not fair to those that already purchased their tickets b/4 this was announced. I have no problem with my 8 year old sitting in a different seat - makes more carryon's for us as now I will pack a bag just for her - will I move for a family - nope - b/c most likely my family will be split up. I really do think SW needs to stop letting the whole family board with a child - one adult is plenty - now if there is a child that would be left behind they can board also. No need for the parents, grandparents and other adults to be boarding with the 1 child under 4. Looks like our next flight will be quite interesting!!

For a child under 4, I don't see an issue with both parents boarding. But i agree about the grandparents, etc. The policy is supposed to be that they make the others board with their pass but I have only seen it enforced once.

As for the moving, I think its well implied that no one is going to ask a family to move, rather a single or maybe a double.

 

[my2minnies]

It's against Federal Aviation Regulations and permitting a ticketed child over the age of two to sit on a passenger's lap can subject an airline to a hefty fine.... not to mention jeopardizing the safety of passengers and the child alike. See Also: When Your Baby Becomes a Missile

Most people do not know that however. How would they know that it is against regulations if no one tells them? The kid is not much bigger than a lap child anyways so I do not think it was an actual threat to the other passengers.

What is allowed and not allowed is variable and subject to the flight attendants working on that particular day.

 

[Embel]

Its a trade off though depending on baggage and everything else. I don't get why THIS ticks people off but being raped by nickel and dime baggage fees and drink fees and looking out the window fees and sneezing fees don't make you equally upset. I give Jet Blue credit they only charge for the second bag but they just jacked up that to $30 now and I'll bet its only a matter of time till they charge for the first bag. Those fees to me are way more ridiculous than the EB option. We went from way to pricey with regulation to way terrible service with dergulation. Someone needs to find a happy medium, especially with this Stuck on the tarmac garbage.

I have only flown on Jet Blue or SW for the past few years, so no baggage fees, and so far no sneezing fees. I'll keep you posted.

It's all about what's important to the individual. It's important to me to sit with my family on the plane. Not because they misbehave or will pee on you, just because I want to. With the old system/option/policy I had as good a chance as anyone of checking in at the 24 hour mark & getting an A boarding pass. Now I have to pay for it, and I won't know how many others paid before be. If I don't get an early enough boarding position, I think we've established that most of the people on this thread won't move for families, and several will intentionally plop themselves into the middle of a family that appears to be saving seats, so....it may be difficult to seat my family together. It's an added stress that I don't want on my vacation.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

But the flight attendants know. Anything not secured with a seat beat or placed in an overhead bin or well under the seat in front of you is a threat to other passengers. Again... missile or baby. Your choice. It doesn't mean a baby who's 1 year and 364 days isn't a threat. He or she is. But under Federal Aviation Regulations it's allowed.

What is allowed and disallowed should never be left to a flight attendant's discretion.

Most people do not know that however. How would they know that it is against regulations if no one tells them? The kid is not much bigger than a lap child anyways so I do not think it was an actual threat to the other passengers.

What is allowed and not allowed is variable and subject to the flight attendants working on that particular day.

 

[wdwfan16]

I have only flown on Jet Blue or SW for the past few years, so no baggage fees, and so far no sneezing fees. I'll keep you posted.

It's all about what's important to the individual. It's important to me to sit with my family on the plane. Not because they misbehave or will pee on you, just because I want to. With the old system/option/policy I had as good a chance as anyone of checking in at the 24 hour mark & getting an A boarding pass. Now I have to pay for it, and I won't know how many others paid before be. If I don't get an early enough boarding position, I think we've established that most of the people on this thread won't move for families, and several will intentionally plop themselves into the middle of a family that appears to be saving seats, so....it may be difficult to seat my family together. It's an added stress that I don't want on my vacation.

Pay the fee and your stress is reduced.

 

[Embel]

Most of our family flights have been to MCO. This means that the plane is filled predominantly with families. On those flights, if most pay the fee, I could still end up pretty far down the boarding line.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Most people do not know that however. How would they know that it is against regulations if no one tells them? The kid is not much bigger than a lap child anyways so I do not think it was an actual threat to the other passengers.

What is allowed and not allowed is variable and subject to the flight attendants working on that particular day.

Plain, simple common sense. If a passenger has a ticket, that passenger has a seat and is expected to be sitting in the seat at all times that the Fasten Seat Belt sign is lit. Any person not belted in is a potential hazard to both themselves and other passengers - just ask anyone who's been injured (or even just frightened) in turbulence.

For the record, it's not safe for ANYONE, of any age or size, to be held in someone else's lap. Think about it - you can't hold your child in a car moving 30 miles an hour, but it's "fine" in an airplane moving several hundred miles an hour?

 

[Willow25]

This thread has made me feel ill, SERIOUSLY!!! I started out feeling kind of horrified by some of Bavaria's comments but as time went on and I kept reading the obnoxious posts of some of the parents I started to really get Bavaria's perspective. If these are the parents you have had to deal with I am truly sorry.

I am a parent of two children and would not be happy being seperated from them. However that is my responsibility to take care of and if $10 is the requirement or an alternative airline that is my choice. I also think that most of the people on this board have stated that if asked in a polite and non assuming manner they would be happy to move to accomodate a family who was truly in need.

Also what happened to social responsibility. My children have to have capacity to deal with situations that I put them into. If your child has ADHD and you take the chance that they will not be seated next to you why is it everyone elses responsibility to then deal with him and his behaviour. You are his parent and you made the choices.

I just can't believe the self entitlement on this thread. For those who had already purchased tickets and are know stuck with this I do feel bad for you and think it really stinks.

 

[bavaria]

This thread has made me feel ill, SERIOUSLY!!! I started out feeling kind of horrified by some of Bavaria's comments but as time went on and I kept reading the obnoxious posts of some of the parents I started to really get Bavaria's perspective. If these are the parents you have had to deal with I am truly sorry.

What is interesting to me is WHO has acknowledged and WHO has PM'd me or responded in a thread to some of my true life encounters. I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting two mothers over the past year with lime green Mickey heads on their backpacks who behaved even worse than I wrote here, and who introduced me (and their children) to a whole new vocabulary.

I don't need an apology from strangers on behalf of othe strangers, but it is interesting to note which posters acknowledged some of the stories I have told over my years of flying. On the Transportation Board a poster met one of these mothers in real life on an MCO SW flight this week. They do exist.

I just spent the week with relatives in their 90's who flew several long haul flights. They enjoyed themselves during their flights and I know that based on their routes they most likely didn't encounter the entitlement attitude so common here. But I would hope that if they ever did have the pleasure to meet up with some of the parents here, they would be afforded some courtesy based on their advanced age, just as others should be afforded some courtesy whether based on physical issues, age, or otherwise.

Children are a wonderful thing, but they are not entirely helpless, or a golden ticket, or a free pass for bad behaviour. Thankfully most parents do not think that either, but many of us have sadly encountered that attitude in real life, and combined with many of the posts here over the years it does impact how we feel about this subject.

 

[bavaria]

And if anyone wants to be humbled, or wants to better understand what some people go through, may I suggest that you read the disABILITIES board on this website. It may well change your perspective and make you realise that your situation is relatively minor compared to what other people have to deal with on a daily basis.

Fortunately I was raised to believe that no matter how bad things may appear, there is always someone somewhere in the world who is far worse off. That has carried through my life, and I am so often humbled when I travel to the poorest parts of the world and see the people who have so little offer up to those of us who have so much. That may sound trite to some of you, but if you take the time to look outside yourself and your world and your problems you may realise that the burden you are carrying is lighter than that of others, and it may help you to carry it for a little longer, or even take on someone else's burden for awhile.

I realise that I cannot force any of you to consider other people, but hopefully at least one person may have changed their perspective slightly over the years by reading what some consider my 'evil' posts about Transportation. The reality is that we share the world with so many people, each carrying their own burden and trouble, and we sometimes tend to forget that fact.

 

[goofy4tink]

But the flight attendants know. Anything not secured with a seat beat or placed in an overhead bin or well under the seat in front of you is a threat to other passengers. Again... missile or baby. Your choice. It doesn't mean a baby who's 1 year and 364 days isn't a threat. He or she is. But under Federal Aviation Regulations it's allowed.

What is allowed and disallowed should never be left to a flight attendant's discretion.

And that is what I have always believed. But....last month I took a trip to NYC, on the train. At one point, as we left Stamford, Ct, a nice young man, his wife and very young dd (about 2 months old) sat behind me. We got to talking due to some really incredible things happening on the train. Turns out he was a pilot for Continental, on his way to the airport. He had been called in at the last minute. But, we were talking about stuff people do on planes. I asked him what he thought about lap babies. His response??? "Not a big deal. We fly with our dd in my wife's lap all the time." I was stunned to say the least. Come to find out, his wife was a FA on leave!! He said, and I quote, "We know the correct way to hold a child to prevent any injuries It's not a problem at all." When I asked about unforeseen issues coming up, he said.."Oh, we know what to watch for. We're always prepared for any situation." For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how he would know in advance, if that plane was going to drop a thousand feet in the next 5 seconds.

In any case....I can't believe this debate is going on on so many different boards. And the arguments are all exactly the same. Interesting.

 

[seashoreCM]

(copied from another forum)
If the plane suddenly simply freefalls, everything in the plane may seem to float but will remain in about the same position as viewed.

If the plane is "sucked downward" as if subjected to twice the force of gravity, unsecured objects will be seen to rise with the force of "one times" gravity. Under reasonable conditions and with some warning, an adult will let the infant rise somewhat but not hit anything overhead.

Part of the secret is to have your hands already clasped around the infant so the only action needed would be to hold the child down.

Ordinary turbulence is caused by change in wind direction. The plane is "held up" by the position of the wing flaps and the air speed. If "the wind" changes direction, the airspeed changes. In turn the amount of lift changes The most severe effect of decreased lift is simple freefall. If sudden increased lift is followed by greatly decreased lift, the plane will stop rising not all that abruptly before starting to freefall.

Downdrafts are another story and can result in more than one G of downward force. Fortunately downdrafts are rare in clear weather. If the pilot is flying through a storm he announces to the passengers that turbulence is likely.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

And if anyone wants to be humbled, or wants to better understand what some people go through, may I suggest that you read the disABILITIES board on this website. It may well change your perspective and make you realise that your situation is relatively minor compared to what other people have to deal with on a daily basis.

Fortunately I was raised to believe that no matter how bad things may appear, there is always someone somewhere in the world who is far worse off. That has carried through my life, and I am so often humbled when I travel to the poorest parts of the world and see the people who have so little offer up to those of us who have so much. That may sound trite to some of you, but if you take the time to look outside yourself and your world and your problems you may realise that the burden you are carrying is lighter than that of others, and it may help you to carry it for a little longer, or even take on someone else's burden for awhile.

I realise that I cannot force any of you to consider other people, but hopefully at least one person may have changed their perspective slightly over the years by reading what some consider my 'evil' posts about Transportation. The reality is that we share the world with so many people, each carrying their own burden and trouble, and we sometimes tend to forget that fact.

I have watched these threads, sometimes in shock and horror, sometimes sympathy.

First - we are talking about flying to WDW. WDW is not the Dollar Store....we are opening our wallets mighty big down there....even DH and I who pay castmember rates are appauled at prices.

Where is the responsibility? You want to have a seat reserved on Air Tran - you pay a fee, You want to check a bag on Delta, you pay a fee. You want to have an Early Bird, you pay a fee.

Grow up people....Southwest isn't asking $50 p/leg...it's $10....don't forget we are not traveling to the Dollar Store!!!

I paid the fee for all my business trips and our upcoming disney trip. It's simply the cost of a Southwest ticket to me now...it's either in the budget or I fly somewhere else and pay for seat assignments and luggage.

Want another surprise, depending on the condition of a knee injury, I CAN preboard ahead of ALL of you....but I don't unless the knee is especially bad and I must be in a wheelchair. That's right, I walk down with my fellow passengers - and carry my crutches. Why, because it's the right thing to do.

I would pay for ALL of your $10 passes to not occassionally ride in a wheelchair....and a scooter at WDW and DL. My Disney trips now are from the "butts and belts" level of a scooter and Bavaria was right......try it once and you will find the loss of freedom is not fun at all.

In any event......just pay the fee or not...your choice. If you choose to save your $10 than don't complain and scam the system because YOU made a poor decision.

Ok, flame suit on.....go ahead.

 

[kevschickee]

I have watched these threads, sometimes in shock and horror, sometimes sympathy.

First - we are talking about flying to WDW. WDW is not the Dollar Store....we are opening our wallets mighty big down there....even DH and I who pay castmember rates are appauled at prices.

Where is the responsibility? You want to have a seat reserved on Air Tran - you pay a fee, You want to check a bag on Delta, you pay a fee. You want to have an Early Bird, you pay a fee.

Grow up people....Southwest isn't asking $50 p/leg...it's $10....don't forget we are not traveling to the Dollar Store!!!

I paid the fee for all my business trips and our upcoming disney trip. It's simply the cost of a Southwest ticket to me now...it's either in the budget or I fly somewhere else and pay for seat assignments and luggage.

Want another surprise, depending on the condition of a knee injury, I CAN preboard ahead of ALL of you....but I don't unless the knee is especially bad and I must be in a wheelchair. That's right, I walk down with my fellow passengers - and carry my crutches. Why, because it's the right thing to do.

I would pay for ALL of your $10 passes to not occassionally ride in a wheelchair....and a scooter at WDW and DL. My Disney trips now are from the "butts and belts" level of a scooter and Bavaria was right......try it once and you will find the loss of freedom is not fun at all.

In any event......just pay the fee or not...your choice. If you choose to save your $10 than don't complain and scam the system because YOU made a poor decision.

Ok, flame suit on.....go ahead.

I don't fly SW but I would pay the fee if I did and I have to say you are RUDE! There is no need to talk down to people. Yes you have a knee injury and can preboard so what? Why bring it up the way you did? Wow this tops the rudeness in this post.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Unless Continental allows lapbabies in the flightdeck... he couldn't possibly know in advance...

And that is what I have always believed. But....last month I took a trip to NYC, on the train. At one point, as we left Stamford, Ct, a nice young man, his wife and very young dd (about 2 months old) sat behind me. We got to talking due to some really incredible things happening on the train. Turns out he was a pilot for Continental, on his way to the airport. He had been called in at the last minute. But, we were talking about stuff people do on planes. I asked him what he thought about lap babies. His response??? "Not a big deal. We fly with our dd in my wife's lap all the time." I was stunned to say the least. Come to find out, his wife was a FA on leave!! He said, and I quote, "We know the correct way to hold a child to prevent any injuries It's not a problem at all." When I asked about unforeseen issues coming up, he said.."Oh, we know what to watch for. We're always prepared for any situation." For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how he would know in advance, if that plane was going to drop a thousand feet in the next 5 seconds.

In any case....I can't believe this debate is going on on so many different boards. And the arguments are all exactly the same. Interesting.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I don't fly SW but I would pay the fee if I did and I have to say you are RUDE! There is no need to talk down to people. Yes you have a knee injury and can preboard so what? Why bring it up the way you did? Wow this tops the rudeness in this post.

I didn't find the post or poster rude at all.

I thought she was telling her perspective of flying experiences and what she would choose to do, not only now but on future flights, no matter which airline she chooses to fly.

 

[Nennie]

I would pay for ALL of your $10 passes to not occassionally ride in a wheelchair....and a scooter at WDW and DL. My Disney trips now are from the "butts and belts" level of a scooter and Bavaria was right......try it once and you will find the loss of freedom is not fun at all.

In any event......just pay the fee or not...your choice. If you choose to save your $10 than don't complain and scam the system because YOU made a poor decision.

With all due respect, I don't understand the correlation of comparing your knee injury to someone who is complaining about SW charging $10 for a better shot at a good boarding pass number. There is always someone who has it worse than you (you meaning general you), so trying to one up each other's pain does not seem to be an appropriate way of resolving this issue.

Perhaps I missed where someone was complaining about medical pre-boarders? If so, then I apologize b/c of course those with medical needs should always be permitted to pre-board.

The fact is, this system is new, and we will all have to see how it plays out.

There are 7 of us flying SW this weekend, and we are living on the edge and not purchasing the EBCI. I'm hoping for the best, but will not pout if we end up with C passes!

If that happens, we'll just demand that everyone move so we can all sit together in the exit rows. *snicker*


(I think it's obvious that I'm joking, but just in case I'll make it clear....yes I'm joking!! LOL!)