Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[rteetz]

I think you can potentially criticize Disney for using different directors for 7 and 8. I know they have the overarching plot mapped out, but the difference in vision with abrams and Johnson could be to blame for some inconsistencies. (Although the “inconsistencies” didn’t bother me at all really)

Yeah and now we go back to Abrams for 9 so I’m interested to see how that works out.

 

[Q-man]

Among other things, like why Snoke even existed. They set him up in 7 to be this powerful Sith lord, craft intense speculation as to who he is (Is he Plaguius? Why wasn't he in the originals? Where did he come from?!), answer no questions in the lead up to 8 and then kill him off while still answering none of those questions and with no indication that he'll even be back for 9 or any future film.

If anything, this film attempted to narrow the universe as opposed to expanding it and explaining...anything. I like that Rian and Disney are attempting something new and not just copying + pasting, but you need to actually explain where we are in this world, why we're here. Not just make pretty explosions.

Though that's just the writer in me asking for more, I suppose.

This should have made my rant. You set up Snoke as a uber villain and then kill him the first time appears in person in the next movie with a Darth/Emperor replay with a tiny twist?

 

[ShadeDK]

As I'm sitting here today and thinking about the movie, I can't help but draw some comparisons that suggest that TLJ is a bit of "greatest hits" compilation from the OT. I enjoyed the movie - even though it may seem as though I'm dumping on it - but like TFA was a bit of retread of Episode IV, a lot of this movie seemed pulled from the OT as a whole. MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD....

OT: promising student of the Force visits remote home of curmudgeonly jedi master in exile, who resists training this new arrival
TLJ: promising student of the Force visits remote home of curmudgeonly jedi master in exile, who resists training this new arrival

OT: promising student of the Force wins over jedi master, but shows head strong traits that lead him to explore the part of the swamp strong in the Dark Side
TLJ: promising student of the Force wins over jedi master, but shows head strong traits that lead her to explore the part of the island strong in the Dark Side

OT: promising student of the Force turns himself over to the Imperials in an attempt to turn the Sith apprentice back to the Light, leading to a throne room showdown with the Sith Master
TLJ: promising student of the Force turns herself over to the Imperials in an attempt to turn the Sith apprentice back to the Light, leading to a throne room showdown with the Sith Master

OT: promising student of the Force is tortured by Sith Master until Sith apprentice intervenes and kills Sith Master
TLJ: promising student of the Force is tortured by Sith Master until Sith apprentice intervenes and kills Sith Master

OT: Imperials stage ground assault on fortified Rebel base using Imperial walkers, which the Rebels fight from trenches, turrets and small aircraft
TLJ: Imperials stage ground assault on fortified Resistance base using Imperial walkers, which the Rebels fight from trenches, turrets and small aircraft

OT: Rebel transport ship is chased down by Star Destroyer and eventually loses
TLJ: Resistance transport ship is chased down by Star Destroyer and eventually loses

OT: Small group of Rebels attempts to secretly infiltrate the Death Star and deactivate the tractor beam so they can escape
TLJ: Small group of Resistance fighters attempts to secretly infiltrate the Star Destroyer and deactivate the tracking device so they can escape

OT: Rebels trying to evade the Empire are betrayed by newly introduced character with a penchant for gambling after he sells them out
TLJ: Resistance members trying to evade the First Order are betrayed by newly introduced character with a penchant for gambling after he sells them out

OT: Rebels on Endor surrounded by Imperial troops in a hopeless situation are helped, in part, when one of their own captures an Imperial walker to turn the tide
TLJ: Resistance members on the Star Destroyer surrounded by First Order troops in a hopeless situation are helped, in part, when one of their own captures an Imperial walker to turn the tide

OT: Rebels fly close to the surface of the Death Star to take out turrets so the other pilots can begin their bombing run, which is costly but ultimately successful
TLJ: Poe flies close to the surface of the Dreadnought to take out turrets so the other pilots can begin their bombing run, which is costly but ultimately successful

OT: Jedi master is not completely forthcoming with his pupil about what happened in the past with his student Vader and presents the truth "from a certain point of view"
TLJ: Jedi master is not completely forthcoming with his pupil about what happened in the past with his student Kylo and presents the truth "from a certain point of view"

OT: Jedi master selflessly sacrifices himself in a fight with his former pupil so that the "new hope" can escape
TLJ: Jedi master selflessly sacrifices himself in a fight with his former pupil so that the "spark of rebellion" can escape

OT: mysterious Boba Fett, fan favorite with a cool helmet, appears to die when he's hit with a staff during a fight and then falls into the Sarlaac
TLJ: mysterious Captain Phasma, fan favorite with a cool helmet, appears to die when she's hit with a baton during a fight and then falls into a fire below

I could go on - but the number of parallels is a pretty impressive. My last point - and one not mentioned prior to now - is: did they really need to kill off Ackbar and just throw in that line that, oh yeah, he's dead (since he couldn't propel himself back to safety with the Force like Leia). A trap, indeed....

 

[DisDreaming4116]

Just curious if other theater crowds were similar...our theater last night erupted when Luke brushed off his shoulder. Not quiet laughter/surprise but actual excited yelling/screaming!

 

[ScrapYap]

Among other things, like why Snoke even existed. They set him up in 7 to be this powerful Sith lord, craft intense speculation as to who he is (Is he Plaguius? Why wasn't he in the originals? Where did he come from?!), answer no questions in the lead up to 8 and then kill him off while still answering none of those questions and with no indication that he'll even be back for 9 or any future film.

If anything, this film attempted to narrow the universe as opposed to expanding it and explaining...anything. I like that Rian and Disney are attempting something new and not just copying + pasting, but you need to actually explain where we are in this world, why we're here. Not just make pretty explosions.

Though that's just the writer in me asking for more, I suppose.

Agree 100%. They give Snoke these epic disfigurations and scars - and we wonder for two years how he got them, where he came from, how he emerged, how he had access to child Ben, how he fooled Leia and Han, how he gained power. Snoke is a wildly powerful dark lord. Yet the references to the past are only of Luke noticing the rising darkness in Kylo. Luke didn't notice Snoke arising??? And felt no need to do anything about it?

 

[kenthanson]

Some people aren't happy if they aren't complaining about something. Too many people these days go to movies with the intention of picking apart every little thing.

I go to movies to enjoy them. I really enjoyed this movie, it was excellent. It's without a doubt the movie of the year and that's saying a lot with movies like Thor Ragnorok and Wonder Woman coming out this year.

I really wanted to like this movie I honestly did, but then I didn't like it at all, that doesn't make me a complainer or mean I don't get to watch anymore movies. I really liked TFA and I still do, I don't remember leaving a movie with a better feeling than that. Last night I just didn't like it, bad writing, useless story lines, bad cgi and useless comedy. Like why does Luke have to swing across with his big *** fishing spear to stand on a small ledge when he could just do that from the ledge Rey was standing on, why did we have to see him milk that thing, a lot of whys.

 

[Q-man]

Some people aren't happy if they aren't complaining about something. Too many people these days go to movies with the intention of picking apart every little thing.

I go to movies to enjoy them. I really enjoyed this movie, it was excellent. It's without a doubt the movie of the year and that's saying a lot with movies like Thor Ragnorok and Wonder Woman coming out this year.

You and I have very different thoughts on movies. Thor a was tortured soul and conflicted reluctant hero in previous movies but a happy go lucky slapstick hero in Ragnorok? Made no sense. The Immigrant Song saved that movie. Please never let another director have Hemsworth making RDj quips.

 

[ScrapYap]

I know I'm not the only one saying this, but they kind of backed themselves into a corner regarding Leia. They've already said they won't be including her digitally in Episode 9, which means she is either going to die offscreen or just not be shown, only mentioned. And neither feels right for a character that important when they had a number of chances to give her the heroic death she'd deserve in this film.

Leia absolutely deserved to have gone out with a heroic bang. And that absurd flying through space thing made her look like a Marvel hero, not Star Wars.

Now the only lead character from the original series we'll see alive in Episode 9 is Chewie. Though hopefully they have enough already-filmed footage to give Leia the good-bye she deserves.

Ironic to look for another death - when this movie was so gratuitously filled with rebel deaths. All those X-Wing pilots in the X-Wing hangar, a huge part of the Resistance leadership including Ackbar (with no pomp and circumstance), all the pilots on the bombers at the beginning of the movie, all the pilots of the gutted speeders at the end (and they show us their faces just before they blow them up). All the filled transports. The commanders of the cruisers. Vice-Admiral Hoo-Doo in her slinky cocktail dress (wat?). We have ten Resistance people left on Crait.

They obviously wanted us to feel hopeless. They send out a distress call to the galaxy and NO ONE comes? No one? The scene of the stable boy at the end felt like a patch. Kathleen Kennedy (who, in my opinion, failed us in this film) said, "This is too hopeless." (As she said when she made them re-film the end of ROGUE ONE. Man, what must the original ending have been like if the finished product was the cheerful version??) So they patch on a little kid who uses the Force on a broom and wears the Resistance ring. He's the future of the Resistance? 15 or 20 years away? And he got the final scene.

 

[umichigan10]

Leia absolutely deserved to have gone out with a heroic bang. And that absurd flying through space thing made her look like a Marvel hero, not Star Wars.

Now the only lead character from the original series we'll see alive in Episode 9 is Chewie. Though hopefully they have enough already-filmed footage to give Leia the good-bye she deserves.

Ironic to look for another death - when this movie was so gratuitously filled with rebel deaths. All those X-Wing pilots in the X-Wing hangar, a huge part of the Resistance leadership including Ackbar (with no pomp and circumstance), all the pilots on the bombers at the beginning of the movie, all the pilots of the gutted speeders at the end (and they show us their faces just before they blow them up). All the filled transports. The commanders of the cruisers. Vice-Admiral Hoo-Doo in her slinky cocktail dress (wat?). We have ten Resistance people left on Crait.

They obviously wanted us to feel hopeless. They send out a distress call to the galaxy and NO ONE comes? No one? The scene of the stable boy at the end felt like a patch. Kathleen Kennedy (who, in my opinion, failed us in this film) said, "This is too hopeless." (As she said when she made them re-film the end of ROGUE ONE. Man, what must the original ending have been like if the finished product was the cheerful version??) So they patch on a little kid who uses the Force on a broom and wears the Resistance ring. He's the future of the Resistance? 15 or 20 years away? And he got the final scene.

I think the point of the kid at the end was that the Jedi aren’t going to “end” and that there’s still hope for the good people in the galaxy. Just that it won’t be as cookie cutter as it’s been in the past.

That being said it was a weird ending

 

[rteetz]

I really wanted to like this movie I honestly did, but then I didn't like it at all, that doesn't make me a complainer or mean I don't get to watch anymore movies. I really liked TFA and I still do, I don't remember leaving a movie with a better feeling than that. Last night I just didn't like it, bad writing, useless story lines, bad cgi and useless comedy. Like why does Luke have to swing across with his big *** fishing spear to stand on a small ledge when he could just do that from the ledge Rey was standing on, why did we have to see him milk that thing, a lot of whys.

I think why is the goal of the film. Being left with questions means it was successful as a bridge movie. Sure some little things could have been done without but overall being left with questions is good.

 

[tlmadden73]

Agree 100%. They give Snoke these epic disfigurations and scars - and we wonder for two years how he got them, where he came from, how he emerged, how he had access to child Ben, how he fooled Leia and Han, how he gained power. Snoke is a wildly powerful dark lord. Yet the references to the past are only of Luke noticing the rising darkness in Kylo. Luke didn't notice Snoke arising??? And felt no need to do anything about it?

I think some people expect too much out of the movies themselves. There is only so much you can do in two hours. How much exposition did we really get out of the original Trilogy? It wasn't until the prequels and tons of books and comic books and games that filled in a lot of the blanks.

They key to Star Wars is everything else around it. Books, toys, comic books that expands upon scenes and characters you see for a few seconds in the films. Boba Fett is the same cool LOOKING character (like Phasma) that is more of a footnote in the movie, but make people want to know more about them.

So I suspect we'll see something to expand upon Snoke's rise .. a book .. a comic .. maybe a future movie.

I mean TFA gave us nothing about how the First Order came to be after the Empire, but a book (Bloodline - by Claudia Gray) goes into the political machinations that lead to the secret formation of what would become the First Order and how Leia recognizes what happens and begins the Resistance. Things that cannot be put into a 2 hour movie (without it being boring), but really adds to the world.

I see the movies as just a "start" of the world .. a way to introduce some great new characters and kick start the next "generation" of Star Wars to enjoy all the other things outside the movies - toys, books, and theme park rides!

 

[rteetz]

I think some people expect too much out of the movies themselves. There is only so much you can do in two hours. How much exposition did we really get out of the original Trilogy? It wasn't until the prequels and tons of books and comic books and games that filled in a lot of the blanks.

They key to Star Wars is everything else around it. Books, toys, comic books that expands upon scenes and characters you see for a few seconds in the films. Boba Fett is the same cool LOOKING character (like Phasma) that is more of a footnote in the movie, but make people want to know more about them.

So I suspect we'll see something to expand upon Snoke's rise .. a book .. a comic .. maybe a future movie.

I mean TFA gave us nothing about how the First Order came to be after the Empire, but a book (Bloodline - by Claudia Gray) goes into the political machinations that lead to the secret formation of what would become the First Order and how Leia recognizes what happens and begins the Resistance. Things that cannot be put into a 2 hour movie (without it being boring), but really adds to the world.

I see the movies as just a "start" of the world .. a way to introduce some great new characters and kick start the next "generation" of Star Wars to enjoy all the other things outside the movies - toys, books, and theme park rides!

Good point.

I’m wondering how the next trilogy will fit into the story and what we might learn about the universe from that.

 

[ScrapYap]

I really wanted to like this movie I honestly did, but then I didn't like it at all, that doesn't make me a complainer or mean I don't get to watch anymore movies. I really liked TFA and I still do, I don't remember leaving a movie with a better feeling than that. Last night I just didn't like it, bad writing, useless story lines, bad cgi and useless comedy. Like why does Luke have to swing across with his big *** fishing spear to stand on a small ledge when he could just do that from the ledge Rey was standing on, why did we have to see him milk that thing, a lot of whys.

I wanted to like it, too. Too much. I avoided spoilers, but saw some review headlines. Best STAR WARS movie since EMPIRE. Saw that more than once. I wish I hadn't gone in with such high expectations. I would have liked the movie more if I had known it was a stinker in advance.

TFA premiere was noisy and joyful - I also don't remember leaving a movie with a better feeling. Last night, people filed out in silence. No excitement. No eagerness for the next movie.

Milking that Thing was just gross and pointless. There was an adolescent quality to a lot of the humor.

Luke's flippant flip of the light saber (which Obi Wan had given him, which belonged to his redeemed father, which he lost along with this hand at an incredibly painful and poignant moment in his life) over his shoulder felt like something a teen-aged boy would come up with. It felt disrespectful and dismissive of the incredibly beautiful scene set by JJ Abrams at the end of TFA. Hey, let's do something unexpected! Ha ha! Let's be irreverent - that's super Current Year, right? It was flippant, irreverent, adolescent - and most definitely not Star Wars.

Rian Johnson had to put his stamp on it. His irreverence was hubris. And the homage to JURASSIC PARK was self-indulgent (the contents of the champagne glass vibrating - starting with one drop and building, caused by giant thundering beasts).

 

[tlmadden73]

I think the point of the kid at the end was that the Jedi aren’t going to “end” and that there’s still hope for the good people in the galaxy. Just that it won’t be as cookie cutter as it’s been in the past.

That being said it was a weird ending

It makes me wonder how far in the future IX will be from VIII --- it feels like both sides need some recovery time to build up again and the resistance needs some time for the "spark" to spread. They could use that timeframe to explain Leia's death (in some off-screen occurrence (or just natural old age))

 

[galaxygirl76]

Just curious if other theater crowds were similar...our theater last night erupted when Luke brushed off his shoulder. Not quiet laughter/surprise but actual excited yelling/screaming!

That one and the reveal that he was never there got big responses from my theater.

 

[ScrapYap]

Leia floating herself through space is probably the worst-ever Star Wars scene.

That was the first moment I really felt, "This isn't Star Wars."

 

[umichigan10]

It makes me wonder how far in the future IX will be from VIII --- it feels like both sides need some recovery time to build up again and the resistance needs some time for the "spark" to spread. They could use that timeframe to explain Leia's death (in some off-screen occurrence (or just natural old age))

It’s a good point. I think this takes place literally months after last Jedi (some of the Rey and Luke stuff I think was flashback and took place over more time than it appears in the film). I’d definitely stagger 9 2-3 years after this one

 

[rileyz]

In 1981 I got an ESB Millennium Falcon for Xmas. TLJ made me want one again. That should sum up my feelings about it.

 

[tlmadden73]

Luke's flippant flip of the light saber (which Obi Wan had given him, which belonged to his redeemed father, which he lost along with this hand at an incredibly painful and poignant moment in his life) over his shoulder felt like something a teen-aged boy would come up with. It felt disrespectful and dismissive of the incredibly beautiful scene set by JJ Abrams at the end of TFA. Hey, let's do something unexpected! Ha ha! Let's be irreverent - that's super Current Year, right? It was flippant, irreverent, adolescent - and most definitely not Star Wars.

Eh .. I didn't mind Luke being flippant . .he wanted to leave behind his past and someone shoved it back in his face.

Is it any different than a little green, wise, old Jedi Master acting like a goofy, silly thief, when confronted by a future student?

 

[kenthanson]

I think why is the goal of the film. Being left with questions means it was successful as a bridge movie. Sure some little things could have been done without but overall being left with questions is good.

But I don't have questions about story and themes I have questions about how someone got paid to write a line that belongs in a skateboarding ape movie.