Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[rteetz]

That is almost certainly the case but in this instance I trust the 51% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes a whole lot more than I trust the 91% Tomatometer. After looking through a comparison of the two for all the movies I've gone to see in 2017 I will probably start using the audience score as my guide over the Tomatometer.

The audience score is not accurate though. It allows people who did not see the movie to vote as well as allowing them to vote multiple times.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Audience rating is not an accurate representation of the actual feelings.

I keep going back to “exit polling”, basically, vs the entirely unscientific stuff like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb:

“And on ComScore/Screen Engine, Last Jedi earned an 89% overall positive score and a five-star rating from moviegoers. That’s in the wheelhouse of what Force Awakens earned (90% overall positive/ 4 1/2 stars) and Rogue One (91% positive, 4 1/2 stars). These are scientific, statistically accumulated audience exit polls that studios can take to the bank, and which they rely upon to deconstruct various elements of a film’s opening.”

https://www.google.com/amp/deadline...db-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/amp/

in this instance I trust the 51% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes

You really shouldn’t. Not as an accurate gauge of the overall moviegoing public’s opinion as a whole / on average.

 

[KaptKaveman]

The audience score is not accurate though. It allows people who did not see the movie to vote as well as allowing them to vote multiple times.

With a 91% from the Critics I have a hard time believing they all watched the movie either, and considering the tomatometer is a sampling of 350 people while the audience score is currently based on 161,000+.

You really shouldn’t. Not as an accurate gauge of the overall moviegoing public’s opinion as a whole / on average.

Why? Of the 8 movies I have seen at the theatre this year the audience score on all 8 is closer to what I would give the movie. Also, it would have saved me 50 bucks if I had skipped the Rian Johnson Star Wars Madlibs.

 

[skier_pete]

So I find it interesting that the people that liked the movie think it is completely ok not to like it. But the people that didn't like it / hated it, seem extremely angry that ANYONE dare like it. (I'm including the folks on this thread.) Why do you insist that everyone else has to dislike it?

 

[mom2rtk]

So I find it interesting that the people that liked the movie think it is completely ok not to like it. But the people that didn't like it / hated it, seem extremely angry that ANYONE dare like it. (I'm including the folks on this thread.) Why do you insist that everyone else has to dislike it?

I'm not reading it that way at all. Some are, but why the generalizations?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I didn't have any specific expectations, like superhero Luke etc. I think most of us who didn't like THJ just wanted the story to be continuation of what was built up in TFA and to a lesser extent RoTJ. This was almost like reading a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book where two different books were ripped in half and glued together. We go from Star Killer base being blown up to an OJ Simpson like chase through space while the rebel ships runs outta gas <- Example. They CLEARLY should have kept the same director/sreenwriter for the whole new Trilogy but one can only assume they had some underlying reason for handing the reins to Rian Johnson for one film of the trilogy. if we read between the lines I think its pretty obvious why they did this.

So what did you want to see? Something even bigger than Star Killer Base for them to blow up? What was the main conflict scene in Empire? Vader inviting himself over for dinner?

Also unlikely for someone to go from trying to save his super evil father and stopping at nothing, to trying to murder his mostly good(at the time) nephew in his sleep.

I saw that scene completely differently - I saw it as Luke sensing the darkness rising in Kylo and the light side of the Force on instinct wanting to stop it but then Luke, the humanoid/person, couldn't do it. There is a lot of looking back after Anakin turned by the Jedi that they handle it wrong (some in the group even tried to point out the issues with Anakin and, some, like Ferus Olin, left the Order because the council refused to see the potential danger). So I saw it as that optimistic part of Luke refusing to do what perhaps was needed and then regretting it (really, regretting how the whole thing went down) and blaming himself

I re-read my post twice. I am struggling to figure out from where this came.

not just that one post but how you word things that people have to convince themselves to like this trash, etc.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

So I find it interesting that the people that liked the movie think it is completely ok not to like it. But the people that didn't like it / hated it, seem extremely angry that ANYONE dare like it. (I'm including the folks on this thread.) Why do you insist that everyone else has to dislike it?

Several people here who liked it have implied or said that people who don’t are nothing but internet trolls or are saying they don’t like it out of some desire to tank Disney. Or are just complainers in general. There are people being dismissive on both sides of the discussion.

It is not my goal to change anybody’s mind. And no one could change mine. My goal is to commiserate with others who didn’t like it. Whether people enjoy the movie or not is an enotional reaction. It’s how all the parts sum up in someone’s mind. It’s pretty hard to change someone’s mind about an emotional reaction.

I’m happy for people who love it. I wish I had that reaction. I’m truly baffled at how people think it’s one of the best SW movies. Not speaking for anyone else here, but one thing that saddens and frustrates me is that if the majority really liked it then there will likely be more like it. And then likely, for me, they will become like the prequels which I just ignore. And at some point I am no longer a Star Wars fan which saddens me greatly.

So if people who didn’t like it seem more angry, perhaps some of them feel that way too. It’s easier to be happy when you got what you wanted, no?

 

[jknezek]

So I find it interesting that the people that liked the movie think it is completely ok not to like it. But the people that didn't like it / hated it, seem extremely angry that ANYONE dare like it. (I'm including the folks on this thread.) Why do you insist that everyone else has to dislike it?

I don't get this. I mean we had the guy on the last page that had the hissy fit about it being the greatest movie of the year and just flipping about people not liking it. I think there are people on both sides here. Opinions are like armpits, right? Everyone has them and they stink to other people.

Personally I thought it was weak. But if someone else loved it that's fine by me. I mean, I hate ewoks, so I don't even like the second half of RotJ that much...love the part with Jabba though.

I think a big part of this is the hardcore Luke fans. If you grew up idolizing Luke Skywalker and don't want to let that go, I think parts of this movie are... a betrayal. That's going to really tick people off.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I mean, I hate ewoks, so I don't even like the second half of RotJ that much...love the part with Jabba though.

Sorry. Side tangent here.
I had a funny thought about how badly the Ewok hate would have broken the internet had there been an internet in those days.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

With a 91% from the Critics I have a hard time believing they all watched the movie either, and considering the tomatometer is a sampling of 350 people while the audience score is currently based on 161,000+.

Why? Of the 8 movies I have seen at the theatre this year the audience score on all 8 is closer to what I would give the movie. Also, it would have saved me 50 bucks if I had skipped the Rian Johnson Star Wars Madlibs.

So maybe that score is a great predictor of what YOU will think of a movie... somehow... even though it is not at all scientific or reliable as a gauge for the wider viewing public.

This is all just factual... proper sampling statistics vs. not. One you can draw conclusions and extrapolate from, and the other you simply can’t.

It’s really not a matter of opinion which of these stats is reliable. This article does state that, and any stats textbook would explain why what this article says on that subject is just true: https://www.google.com/amp/deadline...db-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/amp/

 

[KaptKaveman]

So what did you want to see? Something even bigger than Star Killer Base for them to blow up? What was the main conflict scene in Empire? Vader inviting himself over for dinner?

A cohesive continuation of the plot from TFA would have been nice.

I saw that scene completely differently - I saw it as Luke sensing the darkness rising in Kylo and the light side of the Force on instinct wanting to stop it but then Luke, the humanoid/person, couldn't do it.

We interpreted the scenes completely different. The transformation from Luke at the end of RoTJ and the beginning of TLJ(really probably goes back further to when he was training Ben) is ridiculous. Also why leave a map to your location if you want to be left alone. Once again it was a colossal mistake to have one person write the screenplay for movie 7 then another for movie 8 only to go back to the person that wrote movie 7 for movie 9.

So I find it interesting that the people that liked the movie think it is completely ok not to like it. But the people that didn't like it / hated it, seem extremely angry that ANYONE dare like it. (I'm including the folks on this thread.) Why do you insist that everyone else has to dislike it?

I really am not seeing that. I have seen examples of both sides saying "I really don't understand how anyone can (dis)like" this movie, however no where do I see anyone advocating forcing someone to admit they (dis)like the movie. It is a discussion forum, from real people who have wide ranging opinions. Luckily we can all participate and all be right.

So maybe that score is a great predictor of what YOU will think of a movie

Er, yes that is why I said I would start using it. I never advocated making it universally accepted, just that I will start checking that as well when trying to decide if I want to spend 50$ on movie tickets(not even including snacks).

I will probably start using the audience score as my guide over the Tomatometer.

 

[Grand Admiral]

I went for my second viewing last night.

Two thoughts:

1) Luke specifically says in the movie that he sensed that Snoke had already turned Ben when he was standing over him. He also says he, for a moment, thought about killing him, but then felt shame.

2) In 1983 we had no backstory for the Emperor. I don’t know why people are so caught up with Snoke needing backstory. Supposedly Snoke will have a part in the next film, so probably you’re going to get more info then.

 

[TomServo27]

I think a big part of this is the hardcore Luke fans. If you grew up idolizing Luke Skywalker and don't want to let that go, I think parts of this movie are... a betrayal. That's going to really tick people off.

I personally was never a Luke fan. Vader was my guy and I love how his story ended in RotJ. Han Solo would be the other character I loved and I really liked how his story ended in TFA. So I can see how if you are a Luke guy you might not like how his character was treated in TLJ. For me it was like this guy is finally interesting and it was the first time I really liked him. Also it helped that Mark Hamill performance was so good. I always felt Hamill was the weakest actor in the OT which took away from his character for me.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Er, yes that is why I said I would start using it. I never advocated making it universally accepted, just that I will start checking that as well when trying to decide if I want to spend 50$ on movie tickets(not even including snacks).

Then by all means! I thought you were also suggesting that the score might be some sort of real gauge of how good a movie is or how it will be perceived by a wider audience. If not, guess we’re on the same page.

 

[jknezek]

I went for my second viewing last night.

Two thoughts:

1) Luke specifically says in the movie that he sensed that Snoke had already turned Ben when he was standing over him. He also says he, for a moment, thought about killing him, but then felt shame.

2) In 1983 we had no backstory for the Emperor. I don’t know why people are so caught up with Snoke needing backstory. Supposedly Snoke will have a part in the next film, so probably you’re going to get more info then.

In 1983 we didn't know much about the galaxy. The Emperor just was and that was fine because we didn't have the rules for the Sith or a real big picture. But since we now have the backstory about all the Force sensitives being killed or turned, and the whole backstory of the Rule of 2, Snoke needs an explanation. Who was he? Where was he during the Clone Wars and the OT years? The Emperor isn't just going to let a powerful Force sensitive run around unchecked, and Vader was already his apprentice. The universe has been fleshed out to the point that you can't just throw a character in with special powers and have it be accepted if it seems incongruous with what we know from the rest of canon. And that is exactly what they have done with Snoke and it's just irritating to me. That and the fact that it wouldn't have taken 10 minutes to give him a brief backstory that works, and it's another one of those things that could have been done instead of Finn's entirely useless plot line.

 

[jknezek]

I personally was never a Luke fan. Vader was my guy and I love how his story ended in RotJ. Han Solo would be the other character I loved and I really liked how his story ended in TFA. So I can see how if you are a Luke guy you might not like how his character was treated in TLJ. For me it was like this guy is finally interesting and it was the first time I really liked him. Also it helped that Mark Hamill performance was so good. I always felt Hamill was the weakest actor in the OT which took away from his character for me.

I get this. I'm big on Han and I'm fine with his storyline ending the way it did. He was completely in character in TFA. Luke, in my opinion, was completely out of character in TLJ. Pathetically so. And that is what is really irritating. He was never a coward. A bit whiny, a bit headstrong, certainly brash. But never a coward. And they turned him into a coward. Partially by even thinking about slaughtering a pupil in his sleep, but even more so by cutting himself off because of it. Yoda trained Dooku and tried to fix it when Dooku went bad. Obi-won trained Vader and when the call came he knew to do what was right. Luke? Luke trained a 2 bit villain that killed a few kids and likes to break computers when his temper acts up and he runs off to hide and forsake the Force and all his ideals instead of fixing it? A coward. An abject coward. And that is not at all Luke Skywalker. To me it's really, really awful.

 

[umichigan10]

In 1983 we didn't know much about the galaxy. The Emperor just was and that was fine because we didn't have the rules for the Sith or a real big picture. But since we now have the backstory about all the Force sensitives being killed or turned, and the whole backstory of the Rule of 2, Snoke needs an explanation. Who was he? Where was he during the Clone Wars and the OT years? The Emperor isn't just going to let a powerful Force sensitive run around unchecked, and Vader was already his apprentice. The universe has been fleshed out to the point that you can't just throw a character in with special powers and have it be accepted if it seems incongruous with what we know from the rest of canon. And that is exactly what they have done with Snoke and it's just irritating to me. That and the fact that it wouldn't have taken 10 minutes to give him a brief backstory that works, and it's another one of those things that could have been done instead of Finn's entirely useless plot line.

The cop out explanation could be that he was in the “unknown regions” which the emperor began exploring but it was generally, well, unknown.

Would also make sense as that’s where the remnants of the empire bailed to after the battle of jakku and they could’ve met up and joined forces there

 

[Grand Admiral]

In 1983 we didn't know much about the galaxy. The Emperor just was and that was fine because we didn't have the rules for the Sith or a real big picture. But since we now have the backstory about all the Force sensitives being killed or turned, and the whole backstory of the Rule of 2, Snoke needs an explanation. Who was he? Where was he during the Clone Wars and the OT years? The Emperor isn't just going to let a powerful Force sensitive run around unchecked, and Vader was already his apprentice. The universe has been fleshed out to the point that you can't just throw a character in with special powers and have it be accepted if it seems incongruous with what we know from the rest of canon. And that is exactly what they have done with Snoke and it's just irritating to me. That and the fact that it wouldn't have taken 10 minutes to give him a brief backstory that works, and it's another one of those things that could have been done instead of Finn's entirely useless plot line.

You completely ignored the second half of my post where I said you're going to get more in the next movie.

Finn's plot wasn't useless, he learned from Rose how to be a hero instead of running, and also they inspired the kids at the casino, the "spark" of the rebellion.

 

[Grand Admiral]

I mean, this is the MIDDLE part of the story. All of your questions aren't going to be answered in the middle. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Chef Louis]

So I find it interesting that the people that liked the movie think it is completely ok not to like it. But the people that didn't like it / hated it, seem extremely angry that ANYONE dare like it. (I'm including the folks on this thread.) Why do you insist that everyone else has to dislike it?

It would depend on whose ox is getting gored. I've seen it the exact opposite, anyone who enjoyed the movie has been calling out an opinion different than there own and insist that you are wrong.