Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[jknezek]

You completely ignored the second half of my post where I said you're going to get more in the next movie.

Finn's plot wasn't useless, he learned from Rose how to be a hero instead of running, and also they inspired the kids at the casino, the "spark" of the rebellion.

Sorry. I don't have a copy of the next screenplay. Can you send me yours?

And yes, Finn's plot was useless to me. It changed nothing in the movie, set up a possible love triangle (or two if we insist on Rey being in love with Whiny), and added nothing in my opinion. If yours is different that's fine. But would that movie have had any changes if they cut that entire plot? No. They still would have boarded the transports, been slaughtered, trapped at the base, and snuck out the backdoor. Phasma is most likely still alive, so we can't even go that route. If the entire point was to show the kid with the broom I think it was much too long and convoluted and was time that could have been spent developing characters and plot. That's my opinion. You can have yours. There really isn't a right or wrong, it's just how I feel about it.

I think it was a fine big budget special effects movie. I think it was a weak Star Wars movie for a plethora of reasons.

 

[jknezek]

The cop out explanation could be that he was in the “unknown regions” which the emperor began exploring but it was generally, well, unknown.

Would also make sense as that’s where the remnants of the empire bailed to after the battle of jakku and they could’ve met up and joined forces there

So we're doubling down on the "where did Thrawn come from?" I would definitely agree that is a cop out. And who trained him? He's obviously not human, and the Emperor is inferred to be a racist along with first the Empire and now the First Order (yes, the Emperor as a racist was fleshed out by Timothy Zahn way back when, Thrawn is canon but I'm not sure all those books necessarily are), so it's unlikely the Emperor trained him after Maul. That makes him a fallen Jedi of some kind? Maybe a Dooku disciple? Although Ventress was Dooku's apprentice so that is also unlikely. Maul was no good at anything but violence, so he's unlikely to be a Maul disciple.

I don't know. It just irritates me and it will probably irritate me more if they go back to him in Episode IX since he's dead. Unless he's not, in which case he becomes Maul II and that irritates me as well. If he's dead, move the plot forward and go on. He was poorly developed and a bit role on camera. If he's the Emperor's twisted clone and a few more pop up at least that will be somewhat original... right Luuke?

 

[Grand Admiral]

Sorry. I don't have a copy of the next screenplay. Can you send me yours?

Ok, I give up.

 

[Grand Admiral]

Also, there's no love triangle. Finn and Rey have never shown anything more than being close friends.

 

[jknezek]

Also, there's no love triangle. Finn and Rey have never shown anything more than being close friends.

Did you miss the scene at the end where she is staring unhappily at Finn taking care of Rose? I mean sure, not an obvious rip off clothes and throw herself at him, but not much different than Han, Leia, and Luke before RotJ. And it's not like they haven't tried to stick close to the original movies for many things, right Tatooine, I mean Jakku, and Death Star I mean Star Killer, and Hoth, I mean....Geez do we need to keep going? It's there because they showed it and because they are using so much of the original. It's ok to have missed it though.

 

[Grand Admiral]

I didn't get the impression that she was unhappy.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It would depend on whose ox is getting gored. I've seen it the exact opposite, anyone who enjoyed the movie has been calling out an opinion different than there own and insist that you are wrong.

I think it is like a lot of things that you are going to spend more time thinking about the posts that are contrary to your thinking than the ones that agree (if there are 50 posts and 10 are contrary to your view, those 10 are the ones that will take your time as you don't need to spend time on posts that agree with you). So as someone who like the film it does feel to me that I am seeing more effort from those that didn't trying to convince us to see their side ...and I am sure the reverse is true as well.

Personally I get not liking/loving the films, it certainly isn't perfect. I will say I was surprised by the level of hate and people saying this movie is Bantha Poop, worse than the Holiday special, destroyed Star Wards forever, Destroyed my childhood, etc. ... so have been trying to understand that. Not to change minds, just understand

 

[TheMaxRebo]

So we're doubling down on the "where did Thrawn come from?" I would definitely agree that is a cop out. And who trained him? He's obviously not human, and the Emperor is inferred to be a racist along with first the Empire and now the First Order (yes, the Emperor as a racist was fleshed out by Timothy Zahn way back when, Thrawn is canon but I'm not sure all those books necessarily are), so it's unlikely the Emperor trained him after Maul. That makes him a fallen Jedi of some kind? Maybe a Dooku disciple? Although Ventress was Dooku's apprentice so that is also unlikely. Maul was no good at anything but violence, so he's unlikely to be a Maul disciple.

I don't know. It just irritates me and it will probably irritate me more if they go back to him in Episode IX since he's dead. Unless he's not, in which case he becomes Maul II and that irritates me as well. If he's dead, move the plot forward and go on. He was poorly developed and a bit role on camera. If he's the Emperor's twisted clone and a few more pop up at least that will be somewhat original... right Luuke?

Well, Snoke himself said he saw the "rise and the fall of the Empire" so he was around before the Emperor. And in the Aftermath books there is talk of the Emperor sensing a great darkness/dark power in the outer rim / unknown regions which is why he allocated resources on Jakku to plotting a course through the unknown regions to get to that power (so that power could be Snoke)

I think there are still a lot of ways they could go with Snoke. He could be dead and this is it for him as the character served its purpose for this story. he could have force projected his essense into Kylo so now Snoke is Kylo. He could have not even been on the ship at all and was just projecting his image there, or that could have been one of his vessels but his true form is still somewhere else. Given the power he had over Kylo and how definitively he states that he can sense Kylo's true intentions and will strike down his true enemy, etc. - I just can't imagine he didn't know what was about to happen and was ok with it. But we shalls ee

 

[KaptKaveman]

Then by all means! I thought you were also suggesting that the score might be some sort of real gauge of how good a movie is or how it will be perceived by a wider audience. If not, guess we’re on the same page.

I am suggesting that it is a better gauge for me than the tomatometer based on votes from 348 critics. 160,000 > 348.

You completely ignored the second half of my post where I said you're going to get more in the next movie.

Why would you think there would be a cohesive plot going from movie 8(Johnson) to movie 9(Abrams) when there wasn't much of a cohesive plot going from movie 7(Abrams) to 8(Johnson)? The best thing Abrams could do it act like Rey going down into the cave was a branch off into a parallel dimension. All I know is Abrams has a big mess to clean up in movie 9. Who can take the first order seriously when they are led by Abbott and Costello? Who can take the rebellion seriously when we know their leader will most likely be written out in the screen crawl of the next movie leaving us with Rey Sue and the looney toons show that is Rose and Finn. Of Course, now that Yoda can call down physical lightning in the real world who needs the rebels eh?

 

[umichigan10]

Why would you think there would be a cohesive plot going from movie 8(Johnson) to movie 9(Abrams) when there wasn't much of a cohesive plot going from movie 7(Abrams) to 8(Johnson)? The best thing Abrams could do it act like Rey going down into the cave was a branch off into a parallel dimension. All I know is Abrams has a big mess to clean up in movie 9. Who can take the first order seriously when they are led by Abbott and Costello? Who can take the rebellion seriously when we know their leader will most likely be written out in the screen crawl of the next movie leaving us with Rey Sue and the looney toons show that is Rose and Finn. Of Course, now that Yoda can call down physical lightning in the real world who needs the rebels eh?

Abrams was an executive producer (?) or something of the like on this film. So he clearly had knowledge and insight on what was happening

 

[rteetz]

Abrams was an executive producer (?) or something of the like on this film. So he clearly had knowledge and insight on what was happening

Yes he was executive producer.

 

[Grand Admiral]

Why would you think there would be a cohesive plot going from movie 8(Johnson) to movie 9(Abrams) when there wasn't much of a cohesive plot going from movie 7(Abrams) to 8(Johnson)?

The movie had a plot, you just didn't like it.

 

[kenthanson]

The movie had a plot, you just didn't like it.

Plot to me was fine, it was the writing that was unholy bad. Like next level bad, like the writers seemed like the last movie they wrote was Space Buddies bad.

 

[KaptKaveman]

The movie had a plot, you just didn't like it.

COHESIVE plot. COHESIVE plot. I didn't say the movie had zero plot.

Plot to me was fine, it was the writing that was unholy bad. Like next level bad, like the writers seemed like the last movie they wrote was Space Buddies bad.

I agree that the writing was awful on the level of Sharknado but I think it was due to the terrible plot. The plot in general centered around the rebels, apparently having quickly lost the advantage after destroying Star Killer, in a slow speed chase until they run out of gas ala OJ Simpson and Al Cowlings. Luckily they just so happen to be running out of gas near an old rebel mining base. Thanks to Admiral Purple Hair not sharing any info with her direct subordinates we get a subplot going to Casino Planet were we learn how evil rich people are and how terrible they are to space horses. Meanwhile Luke, who left a map to himself in case the Galaxy might need him someday, gets ticked off when someone comes to find him to help save the galaxy. A five minute training montage, er never mind Rey Sue knows everything so no training required. First Order and Rebels square off on salt world, but thankfully for the rebels its Keystone Cops time over in the First Order as they killed off the only one on that side who seems to be the least bit competent. Extremely powerful being from Asgard.... scratch that from No freaking where with no flipping training shows up to save the last remnants of the rebellion from the evil clutches of Dastardly and Muttley. Porgs rejoice!

 

[bdcp]

DH and I went Friday for the first time. Our DS and DDIL went with us for their third time. Our oldest DS saw it with his new girlfriend also. DH and I aren't sure what we think about it. We saw the original trilogy in the late 70's -80's and that to us is Star Wars. We've seen every movie as it came out. Some were horrendous - this one was just meh. It just seems like they're trying too hard and there were way too many things going on in this one. As oldest DS said it was too busy and they had a lot to unpack lol.

The Casino scene was completely unnecessary and if I had to guess, the "code breaker" with the lapel pin wasn't the guy we saw wearing the pin, but regardless that was completely pointless. I also didn't like the whole Ben telling Rey that her parents were "nothing". I understand it sets up why she is so easy to manipulate because she's looking for a family, but it definitely not what people expected. Luke, Leia, Ben, Darth, all had a family connection and the force was kind of inherited. Where did Rey get it from? I think there's more to that story which we'll see later, but I didn't like how they spent so much time on it. I also want to know where Ben's sister is lol. Just my opinion.

 

[umichigan10]

COHESIVE plot. COHESIVE plot. I didn't say the movie had zero plot.



I agree that the writing was awful on the level of Sharknado but I think it was due to the terrible plot. The plot in general centered around the rebels, apparently having quickly lost the advantage after destroying Star Killer, in a slow speed chase until they run out of gas ala OJ Simpson and Al Cowlings. Luckily they just so happen to be running out of gas near an old rebel mining base. Thanks to Admiral Purple Hair not sharing any info with her direct subordinates we get a subplot going to Casino Planet were we learn how evil rich people are and how terrible they are to space horses. Meanwhile Luke, who left a map to himself in case the Galaxy might need him someday, gets ticked off when someone comes to find him to help save the galaxy. A five minute training montage, er never mind Rey Sue knows everything so no training required. First Order and Rebels square off on salt world, but thankfully for the rebels its Keystone Cops time over in the First Order as they killed off the only one on that side who seems to be the least bit competent. Extremely powerful being from Asgard.... scratch that from No freaking where with no flipping training shows up to save the last remnants of the rebellion from the evil clutches of Dastardly and Muttley. Porgs rejoice!

I forgot Luke had so much training balancing on his head and running around with Yoda on his back...

That’s the kind of criticism that annoys me. I’m totally fine with people not liking the movie but I get annoyed when it gets criticized for the same things the originals did (not following physics, having holes in the plot)

 

[umichigan10]

DH and I went Friday for the first time. Our DS and DDIL went with us for their third time. Our oldest DS saw it with his new girlfriend also. DH and I aren't sure what we think about it. We saw the original trilogy in the late 70's -80's and that to us is Star Wars. We've seen every movie as it came out. Some were horrendous - this one was just meh. It just seems like they're trying too hard and there were way too many things going on in this one. As oldest DS said it was too busy and they had a lot to unpack lol.

The Casino scene was completely unnecessary and if I had to guess, the "code breaker" with the lapel pin wasn't the guy we saw wearing the pin, but regardless that was completely pointless. I also didn't like the whole Ben telling Rey that her parents were "nothing". I understand it sets up why she is so easy to manipulate because she's looking for a family, but it definitely not what people expected. Luke, Leia, Ben, Darth, all had a family connection and the force was kind of inherited. Where did Rey get it from? I think there's more to that story which we'll see later, but I didn't like how they spent so much time on it. I also want to know where Ben's sister is lol. Just my opinion.

The casino scene was mostly crap, not a highlight of the movie.

As been pointed out earlier in the thread (understandable if you haven’t shifted through these 50 pages) that Jedi were brought into the temple from random families when deemed force sensitive. It’s a departure from the Luke narrative, but not from canon.

 

[bdcp]

The casino scene was mostly crap, not a highlight of the movie.

As been pointed out earlier in the thread (understandable if you haven’t shifted through these 50 pages) that Jedi were brought into the temple from random families when deemed force sensitive. It’s a departure from the Luke narrative, but not from canon.

Yeah, I'd been avoiding this thread until we'd seen the movie. Since we saw it Friday and have been a bit busy since, this is the first time I was able to get on and didn't read 42 pages lol. I still think there's something else with Rey, possibly that Ben is lying to her for some reason. There's a connection to someone. Hey, maybe it's Snoke. It was too obvious to make her Luke's daughter, but something is obviously being withheld (cause they never do that in SW lol).

 

[KaptKaveman]

I forgot Luke had so much training balancing on his head and running around with Yoda on his back...

That’s the kind of criticism that annoys me. I’m totally fine with people not liking the movie but I get annoyed when it gets criticized for the same things the originals did (not following physics, having holes in the plot)

Luke spent time with Obi Wan on Tatooine(admittedly not much), he and Obi-Wan did some training on the way to the Death Star(who knows how long that took), ha had Obi-Wan's ghost guiding him, presumably between ANH and Empire he may have continued guiding him, then he trained for an unspecified period of time with Yoda. How much did Rey have again before TFA? We don't see Luke attempting Jedi mind tricks until RoTJ but Rey Sue is busting that out an hour and a half into TFA.

 

[umichigan10]

Luke spent time with Obi Wan on Tatooine(admittedly not much), he and Obi-Wan did some training on the way to the Death Star(who knows how long that took), ha had Obi-Wan's ghost guiding him, presumably between ANH and Empire he may have continued guiding him, then he trained for an unspecified period of time with Yoda. How much did Rey have again before TFA? We don't see Luke attempting Jedi mind tricks until RoTJ but Rey Sue is busting that out an hour and a half into TFA.

Something that screwed me up with TLJ was the timeline, because it’s clear that some of Rey’s time with Luke doesn’t match up with what’s happening with the resistance. Unless their encounter with the first order happened a literal 5 minutes after TLJ ended.