Swept-wear medal?

[RnbwSktles]

I don't feel a sense of pride because I'm part of an exclusive club: "the finishers". No one who congratulates me immediately whispers "well, it wasn't that great because people who didn't finish have that medal, too" as I walk away.

People wouldn't say that because most assume that if you have a medal then you finished. No one is going to say "Hey, congratulations on participating in the race. Did you finish?" They are seeing your medal and thinking "wow, that person completed X race, what an accomplishment!"

P.S. Sure enough, my wife has the exact opposite view as me. She strongly feels that the medal (and even the race shirt!) is solely for finishers.

Well it seems like your wife and I would get a long great! I feel similarly about race shirts, but not from a finisher perspective. I hate when the shirt does not necessarily reflect the event you did. I have a shirt from the NJ Marathon weekend, but I only did the 1/2. Everyone got the same shirt and it says NJ Marathon in big letters across the front, and somewhere in small print mentions the half. If I walked past you, you would think "Hey, that person ran the marathon!" Nope.

Anyone else feeling the same way can respond, but I'm curious how you view other people receiving medals as lessening your accomplishment?

Because, unlike the person above, I do feel that it should be an exclusive club, even if that club includes tens of thousands of people. As awful as this sounds, I don't think people should be rewarded for failure. Failure in this case is not crossing the finish line. It doesn't mean you're a failure as a person, or that you didn't try your hardest, it just means you didn't complete the task. If you want to reward people for their effort, where do you draw the line? Completing 75% of the race? 50%? Starting? The only reason races give DNFs a medal is because they don't want the bad press or to risk someone actually trying to sue because "they paid money for the medal." As someone else mentioned, if they weren't meant to be "finisher" medals, they would be handed out with the tshirts.

 

[Dug720]

Anyone else feeling the same way can respond, but I'm curious how you view other people receiving medals as lessening your accomplishment?

As others have said, it is what it symbolizes. It doesn't symbolize PARTICIPATING (I will differ and say that the shirts handed out as runDisney does it - when you pick up your number - to me are more symbolic of participation. If they were handed out at the finish and SAID finisher, I would be saying the same thing about shirts.) in the event. It symbolizes FINISHING the event. While I'm sure there are many who wouldn't wear the medal if they didn't finish, there are plenty who would, and I'd be surprised if they fessed up to not finishing if asked.

Discussions like this always make me remember a kid in one of the churches where I worked as a youth minister. His soccer team had been to a competition and won the whole tournament. When I congratulated him on his team's win, he thanked me, but shrugged in a way I could tell something wasn't right. I asked what was wrong and he said "Not like you can tell from the trophy. The team that came in last got the same one."

It's not a perfect parallel as there isn't a distinction between places, but it's close enough for government work as the FINISHER'S medal should symbolize FINISHING. It's all an outgrowth of the "self-esteem movement" where kids were brought up believing they deserved everything because they were SOOOOO special. (I have friends who have actually had some of these now "adult" snowflakes actually bring parents into JOB EVALUATION sessions with them. Unbelievable.)

IMHO there are three choices runDisney (or any race that hands them out willy-nilly) should choose from:

1) if it's called a FINISHER'S medal, only FINISHERS get the medal
or
2) if you are going to give it to everyone, just call it a PARTICIPANT'S medal and give it out with the bib packets
or
3) give participants the medal, but have a different lanyard for those who don't finish the race (I outlined how that could work in my earlier post)

 

[bumbershoot]

I already said each person should choose what is right for them - but I actually agree with your wife about the race shirt too! I never wear them until I've finished the event. I think it's bad luck to wear the event shirt in the actual event too, although I see that at every race I run.

I don't usually wear them because I try not to wear anything new in a race. I'm already ALWAYS having shoe issues anyway, so why add to that?

But in the local St Patrick's Day race I wore the shirt because it was black and matched my shorts, and it was almost exactly the same as the WDW Half shirts I'd already gotten and worn. Worked out well!

Discussions like this always make me remember a kid in one of the churches where I worked as a youth minister. His soccer team had been to a competition and won the whole tournament. When I congratulated him on his team's win, he thanked me, but shrugged in a way I could tell something wasn't right. I asked what was wrong and he said "Not like you can tell from the trophy. The team that came in last got the same one."

I'm so sad for him that he didn't have people around him to remind him that his team knew what happened, that all the other teams knew what had happened, and who cares if his trophy was the same. I'm sure it was mainly a money saving move, to order an exact number of trophies and the higher the number the cheaper the per-item cost. He could have had parents who ordered a little plaque, or engraving. He could have had parents and coaches and teammates who made sure that it was still OK, despite it looking the same.

And who really cares, because it's not like he's going to carry it around and compare it with the other teams' trophies. Anyone looking at that trophy will know he was there, and he can TELL THEM what happened.

Great moments to empower that boy from inside, and it seems like all of the people close to him in his life (I'm not blaming you, dug, the damage had been done already) missed those opportunities.


And sometimes the stories are better than just looking at a trophy or medal!



If Disney gave them out in the gear bag, then they've just lost a huge money-making opportunity to sell us the pictures. They'll never do that.



My feelings on this have changed in the last 1.5 years. But ultimately it comes down to how each of us feels about what other people are doing. it's like on the Theme Parks board in the thread about celebrations. Some people just feel that if 100 other people are celebrating a birthday on that day (or SAY they are) that it somehow diminishes from their birthday. (do they realize that others might feel that way about them?)

Others feel like "hey, the more the merrier".

Some, after saying "happy birthday" and getting an ungracious "oh it's not my birthday" in response, they feel foolish and won't give that greeting anymore. Others won't care. One person's moment of forgetting about their birthday button, or not knowing how to take a compliment, doesn't mean no one will simply say thank you.


The people in The Incredibles giving us the "great wisdom" of "if everyone is special then no one is" are a 10 year old sulky boy, a highly depressed, pretty much suicidal man, and a super villain. I don't think we should look to them for wisdom...

 

[nervous1sttimer]

The people in The Incredibles giving us the "great wisdom" of "if everyone is special then no one is" are a 10 year old sulky boy, a highly depressed, pretty much suicidal man, and a super villain. I don't think we should look to them for wisdom...

I'm really enjoying the dialogue on this thread and don't want to completely hijack, but the reverse of that is that if everyone is special, then we have set up some completely unrealistic expectations for life and accomplishments.

I am not a huge "snowflake" basher and I have my own small kids who I want to encourage to pursue anything they want, but not everyone can always be special. There is a razor-edge between promoting healthy self-esteem and creating a culture of continual entitlement. Instead of telling everyone that they are always a winner, we should be teaching people how to fail gracefully and use that to fuel future efforts.

 

[Dug720]

I'm really enjoying the dialogue on this thread and don't want to completely hijack, but the reverse of that is that if everyone is special, then we have set up some completely unrealistic expectations for life and accomplishments.

I am not a huge "snowflake" basher and I have my own small kids who I want to encourage to pursue anything they want, but not everyone can always be special. There is a razor-edge between promoting healthy self-esteem and creating a culture of continual entitlement. Instead of telling everyone that they are always a winner, we should be teaching people how to fail gracefully and use that to fuel future efforts.

Bingo!!

And the whole "everyone is special" thing makes me think of lyrics from "Matilda the Musical" - a story where it is the one child whose parents DON'T treat her as special (just the opposite) who turns out to be the most special of all. The song is called "Miracle"

"One can hardly move for beauty and brilliance these days
It seems that there are millions of these one-in-a-millions these days
Specialness is de rigueur
Above average is average, go figure.
Is is some modern miracle of calculus
That such frequent miracles don't render each one un-miraculous?"

 

[ell13]

People wouldn't say that because most assume that if you have a medal then you finished. No one is going to say "Hey, congratulations on participating in the race. Did you finish?" They are seeing your medal and thinking "wow, that person completed X race, what an accomplishment!"

Exactly! So they think you finished. Why would I care if they think others finished when they didn't. It doesn't lessen the congratulations I received in their eyes or in mine.


And I don't wear the race shirt until after the race either. Bad mojo!!!

 

[Castle2Castle]

I sort of feel the same way. I guess because others assume the medals are for finishing the race...but then they're given to non-finishers. Not that I'm kept up at night worrying about what others think of me.

As others have said, it is what it symbolizes. It doesn't symbolize PARTICIPATING in the event. It symbolizes FINISHING the event. While I'm sure there are many who wouldn't wear the medal if they didn't finish, there are plenty who would, and I'd be surprised if they fessed up to not finishing if asked.

That's part of what I don't understand about the "lessens my accomplishment" thing. Even with DNFs receiving medals, the assumption is still that you finished the race. This only seems to matter if your concern is with how others view you, but even so there seems to be no impact for actual finishers -- people who see you with your medal still assume you finished, ask about your accomplishment and give you recognition still, right? There seems to be no lessening of your accomplishment.

Because, unlike the person above, I do feel that it should be an exclusive club, even if that club includes tens of thousands of people... If you want to reward people for their effort, where do you draw the line? Completing 75% of the race? 50%? Starting?

I asked what was wrong and he said "Not like you can tell from the trophy. The team that came in last got the same one."

It was mentioned in an earlier post as a joke, but there are plenty of people out there who would make a case for not rewarding anything past first, second and third. Even more look in from the outside and scoff at rD's 16:00/mi limit for a race. Are you among the top three or running a BQ in Disney? Does people finishing ahead of you lessen your accomplishment or does your finishing ahead of 10,000 other runners lessen theirs? If so, how? If not, then what is it about DNFs receiving a medal that you feel does?

As to effort, finishing isn't necessarly a reflection of the effort put in. Heck, the new runner who takes the 3:30 for the half, or even the one who gets swept at mile 10 may put more effort into a failed attempt than I do for completing Goofy next year. Should those of us coasting along through the races not receive a medal then? Who would judge each runner's effort in a race and by what means?

IMHO there are three choices runDisney (or any race that hands them out willy-nilly) should choose from:
1) if it's called a FINISHER'S medal, only FINISHERS get the medal
2) if you are going to give it to everyone, just call it a PARTICIPANT'S medal and give it out with the bib packets
3) give participants the medal, but have a different lanyard for those who don't finish the race (I outlined how that could work in my earlier post)

Kind of separate from my question of how DNFs receiving medals lessens anyone's accomplishments, but I did want to chime in on these. I get you feeling they should choose from these, but I think the path they've chosen is the best option. #1 seems like a bad business move for them since they've established their runs as more 'recreational' races than competitive ones and benefit from the less competitive runner's market with the significantly higher prices for their events. #2 I think would prompt more complaints as I think most people want the reward at the end as a motivational carrot when running (whether they finish or not). #3, while possible, would still create more work to be done and result in less efficiency.

Just as most runners don't seem to diminish their accomplishments because they aren't first, or diminish other runners' accomplishments because they were behind them, most runners don't seem that concerned with other people's medals or the circumstances that went into receiving them. In that environment, I have to think runDisney would view all of the above as solutions in search of a problem.

 

[derekleigh]

MY OPINION - I see very black and white. Its called a FINISHERS MEDAL, thus if you didn't finish, you shoudn't get it. People pulling "injury" right after the start just to get a medal are pathetic. If you really wanted one but don't actually wish to run, just wait a week or two and check on eBay.

I understand people train hard and some just cannot make it for whatever legit reason. It stinks and heartbreaking at times, but failure can be fuel for success. Rewarding those that didn't finish is the same as removing failing grades from school. If people want "motivational" material, shirts, bids, etc are all given to you and can be just as handy.

If people want to call up and b*tch to runDisney didn't give them a FINISHERS MEDAL for not finishing, don't sign up for another race because there are plenty of people that will happily take your spot.

I don't accept medals if I didn't finish the race, I don't even wear the shirt from a race UNTIL I have finished. These are just my rules for me, and I'm sure people have theirs.

 

[bellrae]

On the weekend I went into my first ever race where there were medals (only ever done short ones before). I was super proud and really felt like I deserved that medal. I showed everyone at work the next day like a kid with a new toy! - their response "wow, so proud of you for making it to the finish line". There was an assumption that medal = doing the whole race.

I think there are always cases where people want to accept one without having crossed the finish line (and I won't judge them for that), but at the end of the day there is such a sense of achievement with wearing the medal, and I don't think I personally could do it if I was swept or hurt.

 

[StarGirl11]

I'm in the "wouldn't accept it in the first place" camp.

Yes, things happen - injuries, illness, etc. - but that's part of running. (Heck, it's part of life.) Is it disappointing? Of course. Yes, I've got a couple of DNS races and a DNF race in my history. Those in particular didn't give medals (wait, one did...I forget the NYRR Women's Mini 10K gives a medal), but I certainly wouldn't have demanded one for the races I didn't start, and I wouldn't have accepted one for the race I didn't finish.

To be sure, Disney is not the only place where this comes up. At least they don't drive you closer to the finish and let you out to run across the line (looking at you Rock'n'Roll series). I think a lot of it IS that people miss the word "finisher" in the "what's included" section and someone started pitching a fit that "I paid for my medal!" and someone gave in, so someone else saw it and demanded their own medal, and now the race companies just think it's easier to give it to everyone.

I DO wish that if they were going to give them out to everyone, they had a different lanyard for non-finishers (they know the average percentage of non-finishers, so start there, but have extra of each type of lanyard so that changes can be made if necessary. Otherwise it does seem like they should just put them in the bag with your shirt and stuff.

I like the idea of a different lanyard for different finishers maybe something with a slightly different wording to distinguish the two.

And yeah hi OP I'm one person guilty of having taken medals on two occasions at Disney when I DNFed a race. I always try to finish them but sometimes things happen, I think I only have a record of three DNFs in my running history and two of them are Disney races (the other was at the MCM, I'm hoping to reattempt that this coming year now that I'm much faster and shouldn't do the stupid thing where I go waaay to fast through the Georgetown opening). I have actually been known to blow through everything but the aid stations on a race before when I've been on a bad enough time crunch to make sure I stay ahead of the pacers (Tink and the half portion of Dumbo last year).

The sweaping incidents were two very different things but were both medical related. One had the beginning of what I was pretty sure was heat exhaustion (it got bad enough I couldn't drink for a bit without nausea, thankfully that died down on its own) and when I couldn't maintain my run intervals at mile 4 of Princess I knew I was unfortunately out (I managed to make it to the halfway point before getting swept but that was it). And the other time was because I missed training because I was sick for three weeks do to a really bad sinus infection and I had yet to learn the concept of cross training (not sure if it would have saved my Marathon but who knows).

I'll be the first to admit if I did something as stupid as getting swept over letting the back pacers catch up with me (I'll also admit that has also almost happened twice (Tink 2012 and Princess 2012 (okay that wasn't so much photos as a bathroom break that took forever) I was able to put the speed on and keep myself well in front of them, no sweeping)) over something like taking photos? Than yeah I probably wouldn't have taken the medals. Because that's an extremely stupid reason to get swept. But for me there is a line between a reasonable reason on why you are swept (medical) and what's not (goofing off).

Also for anyone wondering I didn't get swept at mile 4 of that Princess. It was somewhere past the halfway point. I don't think I made it to mile 7 but I know I made it at least to the halfway point before I got on the swag wagon. I can keep a decent walking pace but not a 16 min/mile pace. So my chances were shot from mile 4 on.

 

[FFigawi]

I like the idea of a different lanyard for different finishers maybe something with a slightly different wording to distinguish the two.

I don't like this idea at all. I think it could unintentionally lead to people feeling stigmatized when they walk around the parks with something different than everyone else. "Oh, you've got the participation medal, huh? Well, I guess it's good you tried." I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that conversation happening, as inappropriate as it might be.

 

[DOOM1001]

I don't worry much about other people's race,I run my race and at the end of the day it's a personal thing for me what I did.I also don't feel if I finished and you didn't and still got a medal that it's diminishing what I did.I finish my race and wear the medal back to the room and that's the last time I'll wear it,I don't care if someone who didn't finish wants to wear it around the parks or if they want to put a video of themselves edited to make it seem like they finished when they didn't,(I have seen this).Basically I have no issues with the way Disney handles this.The race results are there for people to see,the medal for me is a nice reminder of my race experience,if you want to take it if you were a non finisher take it,if you don't want to don't but maybe you can give it to a kid or put it up on Ebay and get $40 for it,(which I have also seen).

 

[JustSayin]

First off, a disclaimer:
My opinion is for me alone. As long as people abide by the rules of the race as set by Disney, people should do whatever they personally feel comfortable with. That being said…

I do not think that people should receive the race medal if they do not finish the race. It isn’t an effort medal. It isn’t an “I really tried” medal. It is a finisher’s medal. The 16 minute mile goal is achievable by any able bodied person who truly sets their mind and effort to it. Do bad things happen beyond the person’s control? Yes. Do injuries happen at bad times? Yes. Does not finishing mean that you didn’t try/prepare? No. It does, however, mean that you failed. Failure is not a dirty nasty thing. It shouldn’t be a source of shame. Failure is a sign that you are pushing your limits, which is a good thing. Failure can be a strong motivator, and it will be that much sweeter when you go back and do it next time.

If I was Disney, I would not give medals to people who do not finish. However, since they apparently do, it is completely up to you what you do. It doesn’t affect me one way or the other. You are only (IMO) cheating yourself and shortchanging your own accomplishments. If you don’t feel that way, then do what you feel comfortable with.

I would say that you shouldn’t focus ahead of time on what you will do if you don’t finish. Stay positive! I went from someone who literally could not run one mile to a half marathon finisher in one summer of very hard work. I have no natural gift for distance running. If I can do it, you can to! Stay positive, do the work, and you WILL be able to do it.

 

[DisneyGirl]

I have not participated in a RunDisney race for a long time, so it seems like things have changed. Last time I ran, the 1/2 and the full were at the same time, and you turned off for the 1/2 marathon.

But, at that time, they gave non-finishers something called a "participant" medal, that was different from the "finisher's" medal. Basically, it was a Mickey head on a lanyard-- no date, no name of race, nothing else. So, it wasn't as if you were wearing the same medal the finishers got. Do they now give full finisher's medals to people who don't finish the race?

 

[derekleigh]

I have not participated in a RunDisney race for a long time, so it seems like things have changed. Last time I ran, the 1/2 and the full were at the same time, and you turned off for the 1/2 marathon.

But, at that time, they gave non-finishers something called a "participant" medal, that was different from the "finisher's" medal. Basically, it was a Mickey head on a lanyard-- no date, no name of race, nothing else. So, it wasn't as if you were wearing the same medal the finishers got. Do they now give full finisher's medals to people who don't finish the race?

Apparently. I wasn't aware of this decision from Disney. But from what others have reported, some people have whined enough to get there medal even though they DNF.

I gave my thoughts earlier, but there is a difference between a FINISHER medal and a PARTICIPANT medal. runDisney's website lists it as a FINISHERS Medal, so that (IMO) is what is should be used for and not dipping into both sides.

 

[bumbershoot]

Looking at the money for Disney...so now they end up with leftover medals that are good for nothing, and have to pick a number of participant medals to make? Seems more of a financial decision than a based-on-whining decision to me.

I was talking with DS about this, because he randomly brought it up after a discussion of a 10k. I said that they quietly give them if you can't finish, and then it's up to the individual to decide what to do. He looked glad that they give them, and then mimed looking at a medal then putting it into a pocket. I've never talked with him about this and it was nice that he and I feel about the same. Glad they do it, then we can make our decisions about it.

 

[nervous1sttimer]

I agree it is probably partially a financial decision, but I also do think there is probably an element of giving into past non-finishers who were upset not to receive their expected medal.

At the PHM expo this year, I bought this medal rack:

I guess sometimes they ARE given!

 

[ZellyB]

For me personally, it really doesn't matter to me if someone who doesn't finish gets the medal. First of all, how would I know? And, I don't really see how it diminishes what I did. I love bling as much as the next person, but the real enjoyment for me of completing a race is knowing that I did it. The accomplishment is also about so much more than the race itself. It's about the hard work and dedication I put in for the months leading up to the event. My reward for running the race is far more intrinsically motivated than about the medal. Even though I love my bling and I love wearing it around the parks after. So, yeah, it doesn't really matter to me what someone else does with their medal.

I'm inclined to think if it happened to me I also wouldn't want to accept the medal, but I can understand when people do, particularly if they use it to motivate themselves to try again. And, honestly, unless faced with the situation, it's hard to know for CERTAIN what I would do.

 

[frisbeego]

I see 2 issues here. What do you do if given a medal for a race you didn't complete? What should Disney's policy be about giving medals to people who don't finish?

If you're given a medal consistent with the rules of the race, then I think it's your decision as to what you do with it. Personally, I got injured at mile 18 of the marathon this year. I "accepted" the medal because I didn't want to subject the smiling plaid vest to my explanation of why I didn't earn it. I never wore it. I promptly gave it to my 4yo son to do with it as he pleases. It does not hang with the medals that I've earned.

I don't think Disney should give out any medal (participation or finisher) if you don't finish the race within the rules. First, I think this applies to all achievements in life. If my alma mater handed out diplomas to everyone who enrolled, regardless of finishing, I would be upset. It doesn't matter if you could contact the school to see whether they actually graduated. Second, if a medal or diploma means "I may have finished" instead of "I did finish," then it does personally affect me. As Disney's policy becomes more widely known, people (including fellow runners) may question whether someone displaying a medal actually finished a race. I am not a born runner. I truly earned all of the medals that I display. I don't want there to be a doubt from anyone that I did.

To those of you who believe that it doesn't diminish your accomplishment, you're right. You finished the race; no one can take that away. But, if the public perception of a medal is that you started a race as opposed to finished a race, the value of wearing that medal proudly to the parks is diminished.

 

[fairestoneofall]

if i were swept, i think i would take the medal and use it as motivation. i would not wear it and i would not hang it with my other medals.

everyone has to do whatever he/she feels is best. but for me, that's how i feel.