Teacher advice needed

[Cheburashka]

I’m not a teacher but spent several years as a private nurse for a child in a special needs classroom. Is there not a classroom similar to that in your school? I’m thinking this child needs a 1:1 or at the very minimum, a paraprofessional in the classroom to help you out. With school shootings being an issue in our society, school officials need to do a better job at protecting our children. You shouldn’t have to wait for someone to get hurt to get something accomplished. I think you would get in trouble if you “suggested” other kids tell their parents. Utilize your special education specialist, get a meeting scheduled with the superintendent, principal, councilor (if possible), and school resource officer (if there is one) Threats need to be taken seriously and you need a plan to protect yourself and the other students.

Yes, there is a resource room, but the child would never be sent to the resource room all day because that would violate LRE (least restrictive environment), which is part of federal special education law. That's why I'm focusing on raising and documenting my concerns about safety.

 

[Cheburashka]

How big is this child?
Some 5th graders can be pretty big - I was 5’6” in 5th grade.
If he’s a bigger kid, and hard to restrain, I’d call 911 when he starts threatening to hurt or kill. Maybe then he will get the help he needs to help with his anger and threatening ways, and then you and the other students can have some peace. It can’t be easy for you, or anyone in your classroom, to be in a small room with someone that could blow up with anger at any moment.

Thank you for the work you do, and prayers for this boy to get the help he needs so he can live a more peaceful life.

Thanks. He isn't big for his age, but big enough to throw a chair as he has already done, big enough to stab someone with a pencil or scissors during a meltdown.

 

[Gracedis1]

He should have a behavior intervention plan. I would ask for it and ask the administrator what you are to do in the specific scenarios you are worried about. I've worked with kids like this and everything needs to be documented. Ask for support and think through how to keep yourself safe. Do you have a pillow or bean bag chair you can hold on front of yourself just in case? And try to have some empathy for this kid. Kids don't want to act this way. They do well when they can. If these incidents happen often he will need a higher level of care. His family are probably stressed to the max and I hope they have people who can help guide them to the best resources for their child.

 

[Cheburashka]

I'm not a teacher, but as someone who worked with children and teens in residential mental health, I can tell you that something is very wrong with this scenario. Within a residential setting, the child would 100% be restrained and removed from the group whenever his behavior started to turn threatening. And yes, a sharpened pencil can be a reasonably dangerous weapon...it was the weapon of choice for a 9 year old we had for awhile. Not likely to kill, but a bunch of us had some nasty scars for weeks.

This kid needs help. Professional help, more than the school system can provide. I have no idea what the process is within the Texas schools, but there has got to be a way to get an emergency psych eval. My experience was in Florida, where under the Baker Act, anyone who is a danger to themselves or others can be involuntarily held at a psych facility for 72 hours for observation....do you have anything like that in your state? I understand the suggestions to call 911, and it's certainly worth doing if he makes an active attack on anyone, but they're not really the best equipped to deal with psych eval referrals. I'd say talk to your superintendent, be very clear about the potential violence, and frame it as a desire to get him further help. Good luck!

Thank you I will look into this.

 

[Cheburashka]

He should have a behavior intervention plan. I would ask for it and ask the administrator what you are to do in the specific scenarios you are worried about. I've worked with kids like this and everything needs to be documented. Ask for support and think through how to keep yourself safe. Do you have a pillow or bean bag chair you can hold on front of yourself just in case? And try to have some empathy for this kid. Kids don't want to act this way. They do well when they can. If these incidents happen often he will need a higher level of care. His family are probably stressed to the max and I hope they have people who can help guide them to the best resources for their child.

Thanks for the pillow suggestion. I'll consider it, though that would be hard to explain to the students.

 

[Cheburashka]

Thanks very much, everyone, for the moral support. It was much needed. As a teacher you are often made to feel that you don't matter- your safety, nothing. I'll use all of these suggestions to press for more support and safety.

 

[Wdloepp]

I'm not a teacher, but as someone who worked with children and teens in residential mental health, I can tell you that something is very wrong with this scenario. Within a residential setting, the child would 100% be restrained and removed from the group whenever his behavior started to turn threatening. And yes, a sharpened pencil can be a reasonably dangerous weapon...it was the weapon of choice for a 9 year old we had for awhile. Not likely to kill, but a bunch of us had some nasty scars for weeks.

This kid needs help. Professional help, more than the school system can provide. I have no idea what the process is within the Texas schools, but there has got to be a way to get an emergency psych eval. My experience was in Florida, where under the Baker Act, anyone who is a danger to themselves or others can be involuntarily held at a psych facility for 72 hours for observation....do you have anything like that in your state? I understand the suggestions to call 911, and it's certainly worth doing if he makes an active attack on anyone, but they're not really the best equipped to deal with psych eval referrals. I'd say talk to your superintendent, be very clear about the potential violence, and frame it as a desire to get him further help. Good luck!

For what age of students is this for? Does it pertain to 3-5 year olds also?

 

[Wdloepp]

I taught special education for years and was always frustrated with appropriate placement. We were always told to use the least restrictive environment but they would forget or ignore what was appropriate. If the least restrictive environment is not appropriate, then a different placement should be allowed. We always tried least restrictive first but the amount of time required for the student to not succeed varied with each case.

 

[White Cat]

Not a teacher. but neither are most people on this thread.

I would call 911 and say a student is threatening people. There would be plenty of witnesses.

Daughter teaches at a very dangerous city school. There has been 5 students in early elementary grades removed by city police this year.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And try to have some empathy for this kid.

I don’t see a lack of empathy in anything the OP said.

There is, however, a real danger that isn’t being addressed properly.

It’s ok to have empathy for the OP and the other students in the classroom, too - isn’t it? (Or is that a no-no?)

Do you have a pillow or bean bag chair you can hold on front of yourself just in case?

 

[Lilsia]

Good advice. I will call them more often, any time there's a hint of an issue about to occur. They can't exactly "get him" because he won't go and they won't restrain him, but someone can come while my students evacuate the classroom.

I wish other students would tell their parents as I am not allowed to talk about it due to student privacy reasons. Even if a student or staff member is explicitly threatened or physically attacked, we can't tell parents (other than the parent of the child receiving the attack) what is going on at school in their child's class. It would be considered a privacy violation.

The only thing the school worries about is parent complaints or being sued. If parents knew about what was going on they would complain, then something might actually change.

It is the same in every single school district, they only worry about what the parents will say and don't care about teachers. This seems to be what most companies think about their employees sadly. As I said, I would talk to the office and remind them of what can happen once the other students' parents get involved. I don't understand why they can not remove this disruptive child. The first time he did that with the pencil, security should have been called, he should have been removed, and the parents and police called.

 

[barkley]

have you considered doing an anonymous call to cps to inquire if you should be doing a mandatory report regarding the safety of the other students in your class? you are a mandatory reporter and if you are witnessing behaviors on the part of one student that are endangering the mental and/or physical health of another you have an obligation to report.

After school I learned that earlier this week this student had threatened to kill a staff member and threw a chair at another staff member, as well-

pertaining to this-the u.s. justice department one year ago this month began working on a project directly related to this. according to their website (press release 21-960) threats can be reported to the a national hotline operated by the fbi where a determination will be made regarding what agency should be addressing the issue and communication with that agency will be initiated. perhaps your principal is unaware that she can't just wait until it's convenient for her to set up a meeting to discuss this issue-that it's on her/on the school/on the district to ensure to take appropriate steps to ensure staff safety as well as student.

 

[momz]

Out of control children become out of control adults if the problem of being out of control is ignored.

My heart goes out to the other students. I cannot imagine the fear and stress they are feeling. School should be a safe place and should be about learning. Unfortunately, situations like this turn school into a holding pen for children during the daytime. I know that’s not nice to say. But, really, what are your other students learning from this? They see a kid with no consequences for extreme behavior. They see a teacher who is in an impossible situation. How are they to learn respect for the institutions for learning, and for the teachers who are in authority…especially when the teachers are hamstringed and cannot act with authority.

You, poor teacher, have to get approval from your higher ups just to be able to respond to this kid’s behavior.

Speaking to the greater societal ills, respect for authority has been eroded. I don’t have answers, other than that there should be consequences for bad behavior.

 

[White Cat]

He should have a behavior intervention plan. I would ask for it and ask the administrator what you are to do in the specific scenarios you are worried about. I've worked with kids like this and everything needs to be documented. Ask for support and think through how to keep yourself safe. Do you have a pillow or bean bag chair you can hold on front of yourself just in case? And try to have some empathy for this kid. Kids don't want to act this way. They do well when they can. If these incidents happen often he will need a higher level of care. His family are probably stressed to the max and I hope they have people who can help guide them to the best resources for their child.

Why? If I were to be at that school on a parent night and threatened people like that I would be arrested.

I hear what my daughter and the other teachers go through and it’s just awful. The empathy should be shown to the teachers and the 3 or 4 students in each room that care.

They have a little boy in the school that they can not do any thing about when he urinates out side at play time. Why? Because it’s normal too in the county that he’s from. Problem is he’s an American. His parents are from the other country.

I feel sorry for teachers.

 

[SmallWorld71]

1) Create a paper trail. Document everything. (Not just super violent incidents, but the smaller ones that you are dealing with). People will often ignore what they think are isolated incidents, but when you can look at it all together it can be eye opening. If your school has referral forms, use those. Or create your own checklist/ notebook.

2) You need to inconvenience others in more power than you. Someone should be called to your room every time he begins to turn violent, whether it be special education teacher, school counselor, principal etc. If someone else has to start spending much of their time dealing with this, you are more likely to get help. I am a special education teacher and I have found this to be one of the most effective strategies.

3) Your other students should be removed from your room every time this happens as well. If this happens enough, they will tell their parents.

4) Whenever you can, make it about this child’s and your other students’ safety and right to an education. Not saying you aren’t important, but you don’t seem to be getting response for your own safety concerns.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I know you said you need the job, but is there anything tying you to it? Like a pension or tenure or something? In my area a teacher can get a job as easily as picking up bread at the store because of shortages. If there is nothing holding you to that particular job I would start looking elsewhere if this doesn’t get resolved soon.

 

[MrsPete]

5th graders should know there is something very wrong with this child even if they aren't saying anything. The next time this happens, maybe say something out loud to the classroom in frustration like "I really wish I could let all of your parents know about this problem. I can't, but you can". Maybe that is enough to get some formal parent complaints in to the office.

First, Did the OP say the student is in 5th grade? So maybe 11? Yeah, that's pretty near adult sized. Thoughts from a teacher:
- Where do you have the student seated in the classroom? He should obviously be on an "edge" so he is near the fewest number of students. Could you seat him near the door? Thinking that if he becomes violent, you could shove him out the door and close it /leaving him in the hallway. Alternately, could you place the student nearest your desk /would allow you to send the other students into the hallway?
- Do you have some sort of item to use as protection? Could you place something near his desk -- a thick tapestry on the wall, perhaps reinforced behind with thin metal? -- something you could throw between him and yourself /another student?
- This one is pretty extreme, but I kept two cans of Hornet Spray in my desk in case of a school shooter. Hornet Spray is perfectly "legal" in a classroom, and it can shoot 20 feet in a direct line (doesn't dissipate to other students). In an absolutely horrible situation, you could spray this student in the face -- ONLY to protect other students. You would have charges brought against you, so you'd better be SURE this was warranted.
- Does he have another student who is calming to him? How does he get along with other students in the classroom?
- Have you let the teachers near you know what's going on? Not to be gossipy, but to let them know that you might call upon them for help. For example, in an emergency, it'd be handy to be able to scream out to the teacher next door MRS. JONES, CODE RED, and she'd know that means you're in real trouble and you need her to drop everything and call the office for you.

Second, NO to making vague comments to your class. That kind of backhanded attempt to include parents will absolutely backfire on the teacher. Unprofessional at best -- it makes you look weak in front of your other students.

How big is this child?
Some 5th graders can be pretty big - I was 5’6” in 5th grade.
If he’s a bigger kid, and hard to restrain, I’d call 911 when he starts threatening to hurt or kill. Maybe then he will get the help he needs to help with his anger and threatening ways, and then you and the other students can have some peace. It can’t be easy for you, or anyone in your classroom, to be in a small room with someone that could blow up with anger at any moment.

Thank you for the work you do, and prayers for this boy to get the help he needs so he can live a more peaceful life.

Do you have an SRO (School Resource Officer)? Have you included him or her in your discussions? A good SRO can be an excellent resource.

Consider that (in the real world of school) you can only call 911 once -- well, I mean, once and keep your job. No point in discussing whether that's right or wrong. It just IS. The path of escalation is, You call the office for an administrator and/or SRO first -- they decide when you need to call outside help.

What triggers this student? Is it academic frustration or social frustration in the classroom? Or does he bring problems from home? What time of day do his meltdowns tend to occur?

He should have a behavior intervention plan. I would ask for it and ask the administrator what you are to do in the specific scenarios you are worried about. I've worked with kids like this and everything needs to be documented. Ask for support and think through how to keep yourself safe. Do you have a pillow or bean bag chair you can hold on front of yourself just in case? And try to have some empathy for this kid. Kids don't want to act this way. They do well when they can. If these incidents happen often he will need a higher level of care. His family are probably stressed to the max and I hope they have people who can help guide them to the best resources for their child.

The student has an IEP, so he has a Case Manager within the school walls. Is that person helpful? You should copy this person in on 100% of your emails dealing with this student.

The student's IEP must be renewed every school year -- ask the Case Manager when that comes up /say that you want to be in the next meeting. So many teachers just sit quietly in those meetings /sign off on whatever's said -- and I've seen some ridiculous, over-the-top things written into IEPs. Go in with specific ideas about how this student's needs could be better met. This may not do you any good this school year, but it might mean the student will have a more reasonable IEP for next year.

I'm sure the teacher has a Behavior Plan -- thing is, those things are more CYA than actual help. Without having seen the BP, I have a couple questions:
- Does the student consider it a "perk" to sit in the hallway to do independent work alone? To go to the library or to his Case Worker?
- Would the student consider it a "perk" to be allowed to listen to music with headphones in the last 30 minutes of class -- provided he's had a good day?
- In your opinion, is the student capable of controlling himself to earn a reward?

I totally agree that kids don't want to act this way, which is why a special classroom /alternative placement would be good for him -- such a classroom would provide the support and interventions the child needs. You are not equipped to handle this PLUS a classroom full of students.

Has any mention been made of classifying this student as a Willie M?

Super-important detail that we haven't heard yet: What do the parents say? Are they involved /helpful? What's his home life like?

1) Create a paper trail. Document everything. (Not just super violent incidents, but the smaller ones that you are dealing with). People will often ignore what they think are isolated incidents, but when you can look at it all together it can be eye opening. If your school has referral forms, use those. Or create your own checklist/ notebook.

2) You need to inconvenience others in more power than you. Someone should be called to your room every time he begins to turn violent, whether it be special education teacher, school counselor, principal etc. If someone else has to start spending much of their time dealing with this, you are more likely to get help. I am a special education teacher and I have found this to be one of the most effective strategies.

3) Your other students should be removed from your room every time this happens as well. If this happens enough, they will tell their parents.

4) Whenever you can, make it about this child’s and your other students’ safety and right to an education. Not saying you aren’t important, but you don’t seem to be getting response for your own safety concerns.

Yes, yes, yes to the paper trail. I was going to say that -- yes to documenting small things: Johnny became frustrated during math and threw his pencil -- specify whether he threw it at the wall or at another student. Johnny pushed another kid on the playground. Without a paper trail, you have NOTHING.

Yes to inconveniencing people above your pay grade.

Yes to making it about other students' safety /right to an education. Having just retired after 30 years in the classroom, I assure you, you will NEVER get any support over your own safety. Put your efforts into more certain pathways.

I know you said you need the job, but is there anything tying you to it? Like a pension or tenure or something? In my area a teacher can get a job as easily as picking up bread at the store because of shortages. If there is nothing holding you to that particular job I would start looking elsewhere if this doesn’t get resolved soon.

Yes, we have a serious teacher shortage in this area -- and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Before you leave this job though, consider:
- This is not a unique situation. If you choose to leave your current job, make it because administration didn't support you -- not because this one student was a problem. You could easily find a similar situation in your next job.
- Pensions tend to be state-based, but tenure is county-based -- that's why teachers don't tend to job-hop. Don't leave without ABSOLUTELY KNOWING what you're doing to your long-term finances. For example, new hires here are no longer in a pension program and they no longer get medical in retirement; teaching is a job that "ties you to one place". Be SURE of the details in your area.

Last thought: Put real effort into creating a relationship with this student. Without knowing for sure, I suspect this student isn't getting enough one-on-one adult time /isn't getting much positive reinforcement at school. Be SURE that every time you speak to this student, you have a smile on your face -- you're the adult in the situation, and you have to set the tone. Compliment him for positive behaviors /good academic work. I'm not saying give him a pass on bad behavior; rather, I'm saying "catch him being good" and make much of it -- most kids who behave this way get little positive reinforcement. Give him responsibilities in the classroom -- water the plants, distribute papers -- so he can feel he is a positive part of things. Feeling that you're likable, capable and useful leads to better self-esteem.

 

[KristaZ]

Until last year, I was a special education teacher and former classroom teacher in a district where things like this are the norm, sadly. You've been offered plenty of other advice here, so I won't rehash all of that. My best advice, and I know this is NOT helpful in the moment, is to keep a paper trail. Document every little thing. Is there someone above the principal you could bring your concerns to? A special ed director who may see this as a more pressing issue? What about the school psychologist, counselor, or social worker? I know it's frustrating when admin sees no issue. There's clearly a need to revisit the IEP and any behavior plans that are in place as they are no longer working.

 

[Cheburashka]

1) Create a paper trail. Document everything. (Not just super violent incidents, but the smaller ones that you are dealing with). People will often ignore what they think are isolated incidents, but when you can look at it all together it can be eye opening. If your school has referral forms, use those. Or create your own checklist/ notebook.

2) You need to inconvenience others in more power than you. Someone should be called to your room every time he begins to turn violent, whether it be special education teacher, school counselor, principal etc. If someone else has to start spending much of their time dealing with this, you are more likely to get help. I am a special education teacher and I have found this to be one of the most effective strategies.

3) Your other students should be removed from your room every time this happens as well. If this happens enough, they will tell their parents.

4) Whenever you can, make it about this child’s and your other students’ safety and right to an education. Not saying you aren’t important, but you don’t seem to be getting response for your own safety concerns.

Excellent advice, thank you very much. I will follow all of this.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I've been working as a Special Ed Teaching Assistant for 20 years and have been involved in situations like this many, many times. Here are my immediate thoughts:

- Does the student have a BSP (Behavior Support Plan)? You mentioned being told how to avoid triggering him, but is there a written procedure for when he starts escalating? If not, there should absolutely be a step-by-step procedure (i.e. evacuate other students, call the office for support, etc.). We had a violent student last year and had to evacuate several times. The teacher explained to the other kids that if she says a certain code word, it means the classroom has become unsafe and they need to line up and exit immediately. One aide would go with the kids while the other would stay inside to support the teacher and the student.
- Speaking of support, never allow yourself to be alone in the room with the student. There should always be two adults to handle the escalation and make decisions together. It puts you in a bad position if you are alone as the student can accuse you of all kinds of things.
- Document, document, document - See if you can find a form for an ABC (antecedent, behavior, consequence) chart online. It's a form that lists possible triggers and behaviors and you can quickly circle one each time there's an incident. You can also write narrative descriptions, but that takes longer and is harder to quantify. We give our ABC charts to the psychologist who creates graphs showing frequency of various behaviors. Creating that visual really gives a clear picture of the frequency and severity of the behaviors. If you can't find an ABC chart, you can create your own data chart based on the student's most frequent behaviors.
- Implement a reward system - Ask the student what he would like to work for: Extra computer time? Drawing? A break outside the classroom to shoot hoops? You can make a chart showing specific things he needs to do to earn those rewards. We had check-ins with our student every 30 minutes so he could see his points building up. A teacher with an even more difficult case did 15-minute check-ins with his student. If they really want to earn the reward, it gives them something to focus on and can improve behavior. It will still be hit and miss, but can be helpful.
- Does your school have behavior specialists? Counselors? Psychologist? You really need the constant support of these people. As the teacher, you can call a meeting with the administrators and support people. There needs to be a meeting of the minds on how this student should be handled. There needs to be a solid plan, in writing, that everyone can reference. There should be an IEP meeting with the entire team, including parents, to go over the plan.
- Ask your administrators which "safe restraint" system your school uses. Our entire special ed staff is required to be certified in Safety Care, and we have to get recertified every year. There are other systems out there. That's just the one we use. We are taught when and how we can restrain a student who is acting in an unsafe manner. We also practice de-escalation techniques to try to avoid potential violent incidents. There's a whole procedure about what to say, what to do and when you might need to call 911. If there's an incident, one of your administrators should drop everything and come running to support you. There's nothing more important than student safety (including the volatile student). We also learn ways to block kicks, punches and flying objects.

It sounds to me like your school doesn't have a solid plan in place for this student. The task should fall to the administrators and behavior support staff. Unfortunately, they don't always step-up and it falls to the teacher to lead the charge. As the person in the trenches who deals with the behavior on a daily basis, it's important for you to be the "squeaky wheel." You and the student need support and it's up to the school to provide it. Good luck!