The direct points shaming factor here

[_auroraborealis_]

To the previous poster, I'm not sure I'd buy today. Even the resale points are twice or more what we paid.

This is a big reason I often caution people to examine the economics, and not just ask on forums about trades or cruises. It's really a big difference trading CCV points for a cruise vs. an original OKW buyer trading for a cruise when you look at the economics (cost per point, dues, etc.). Most of the current "membership extras!" are non-economic and very situational; the AP benefit is nice, but it is hard to predict its long-term status. After all, DVC members used to get length of stay tickets and valet parking, too.

At the end of the day, DVC is the most effectively branded timeshare out there, and it causes quite a few people to lose sight of the key fact: DVC is a timeshare. As "clubs" go, it is really open to anyone willing to pay the money. But it's also the only timeshare where people fall all over themselves to buy logo merchandise for the "club." And so people let the brand sway their decision, over the economics.

 

[bumbershoot]

After reading all the replies to the person who had the audacity to run the numbers and still buy direct for convenience sake, among other reasons, it occurs to me that buying direct has become just like the "Don't buy unless you can pay cash" bludgeoning that goes on in the boards.

We bought direct, we financed, I discuss those things here, and I'm actually quite a sensitive lil' thing, and yes I have never felt shamed for how we purchased.

It is what it is. Sure if we'd had the cash (no one was talking about resale loans where I was looking in 2009) buying into OKW would have been great. Except we didn't know how much we would like OKW.

Oh yeah, we'd never been to wdw before we bought. 100% sight unseen.

So sure we could have saved, but it is what it is and here we are. Unashamed and un-shamed.

People don't end up with tons of money by paying $50-60/pp more for a timeshare and then paying 12% to finance.

Meh. Our situation bettered from our experiences laid out above. The layoff announced just after the recission (or however it's spelled) period ended really put the spotlight on our finances, and we're better off for it.

If OP had not wanted debate and comment, presumably he/ she would not have posted their thoughts on a public board.

Yep.

 

[lawboy2001]

After reading all the replies to the person who had the audacity to run the numbers and still buy direct for convenience sake, among other reasons, it occurs to me that buying direct has become just like the "Don't buy unless you can pay cash" bludgeoning that goes on in the boards.

The truth is, direct points have a lot of value today, and they will likely have even more value in days to come as DVC continues to incentivize direct points, particularly with ticket deals.

The 25 point direct loophole is likely to become a thing of the past in a hurry for new buyers.

It's one thing to point out to new people that, "Hey, there's a resale market" and another to go after them because they value what the direct points offer.

There's no doubt about it: Direct points today are premium points. We'll save several hundred dollars on the passes this year, and WDW ticket prices are going nowhere but up.

THere's a number of different measures of value in deciding this question -- it really depends on the person and what they are looking at buying. People should not be strident about either choice. I bought resale but can completely understand someone buying direct. Obviously, if you were to be deciding, today, between a resale contract and a direct contract (at one of the newer resorts), resale will save you a ton of money. But if you focus on a PARTICULAR resort, and compare buying direct form Disney, during the initial sale period, vs buying at that PARTICULAR resort later, when there is reasonable resale availability (i.e. 4-5 years), it is close to a wash. Your resale points will be about 50$ cheaper, but you've lost 4-5 years of use! Years you could have used, or rented for a net return of about 9$ a point -- so really a marginal difference.

Case in point. I own at BLT. I paid 98$ per point resale in 2013. My understanding is that when the resort was put for sale in 2008-2009, Disney direct prices were....95-100$ish! I believe this same accounting can be done for other newer resorts.

 

[gillep]

We bought direct, we financed, I discuss those things here, and I'm actually quite a sensitive lil' thing, and yes I have never felt shamed for how we purchased.

It is what it is. Sure if we'd had the cash (no one was talking about resale loans where I was looking in 2009) buying into OKW would have been great. Except we didn't know how much we would like OKW.

Oh yeah, we'd never been to wdw before we bought. 100% sight unseen.

So sure we could have saved, but it is what it is and here we are. Unashamed and un-shamed.

We bought our direct, financed contract likely just before you, and I have also certainly mentioned those points on here, and have never been made to feel shamed for it. We likely could have saved a little money resale, but unlike many/most DVC purchasers that seem to post on the Dis saving money was not our #1 factor in purchasing DVC. We were able to pay of our loan very quickly, and DH and I still consider our direct DVC contract as the best thing we have ever spent money on. Yes, we could have saved a bit by going resale, but that wasn't our focus at the time. We have no regrets, but have taken some of the best vacations, and have made some amazing memories over the past almost 10 years. Our second contract was purchased resale, as that made the most sense at the time, given our time frame, and the resort and number of points that we were looking for.

I appreciate the frank discussions that Dis posters have over purchasing DVC, especially the financial aspects, I think it is useful information to have. I am not sure why some people feel shamed by those discussions, it is just factual mathematics, that may or may not be important in a specific circumstance, given other unique factors under consideration.

 

[jodifla]

We bought our direct, financed contract likely just before you, and I have also certainly mentioned those points on here, and have never been made to feel shamed for it. We likely could have saved a little money resale, but unlike many/most DVC purchasers that seem to post on the Dis saving money was not our #1 factor in purchasing DVC. We were able to pay of our loan very quickly, and DH and I still consider our direct DVC contract as the best thing we have ever spent money on. Yes, we could have saved a bit by going resale, but that wasn't our focus at the time. We have no regrets, but have taken some of the best vacations, and have made some amazing memories over the past almost 10 years. Our second contract was purchased resale, as that made the most sense at the time, given our time frame, and the resort and number of points that we were looking for.

I appreciate the frank discussions that Dis posters have over purchasing DVC, especially the financial aspects, I think it is useful information to have. I am not sure why some people feel shamed by those discussions, it is just factual mathematics, that may or may not be important in a specific circumstance, given other unique factors under consideration.

We also consider it one of our best purchases after 20 years. But I've taken heat on here in the past for being one of those who had the audacity to finance, and for sticking up for others who choose to finance. And now we see that same blanket criticism of those who chose to buy direct, EVEN after they have done the research and feel direct is the way to go.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I'm using my $50/point OKW points again next year to book another short stay at the GFV. Short because we don't want to board the dogs too long.

 

[Bing Showei]

We also consider it one of our best purchases after 20 years. But I've taken heat on here in the past for being one of those who had the audacity to finance, and for sticking up for others who choose to finance. And now we see that same blanket criticism of those who chose to buy direct, EVEN after they have done the research and feel direct is the way to go.

Securing your DVD timeshare, by way of direct sale and financing, has been a wonderful experience that has created invaluable memories for you and your family. I doubt there is anyone on this board that can provide a valid argument against why you choosing to purchase and finance a direct purchase was a bad decision for you.

Even as gillep said and you quoted and bolded above DVC was "the best thing we have ever spent money on." Buying in this way was the right personal decisions for you both. I, for one, would never attempt to argue otherwise, as I do not know you, your vacationing needs, what makes you happy, or your finances.

The tough spot you'll run into is if you make the argument, which I don't think you or gillep are making, that buying direct with financing is the best financial decision that a person can make, once they've decided to buy in. Any such assertion would have to be based on analysis of empirical data readily available. All of which would prove this statement false.

It's the reason why I ask you what advice you would give to someone buying in today, in the current resale market. It's a question I would still like to get your thoughts on, as your initial response, "don't buy," would seem to contradict your sentiments that the memories you have made over the past 20 years have been amazing.

When I came to the boards, I wondered what the differences (this was post differentiated member statuses) were between resale and direct. There was a lot of positions on both sides. I weighed this and realized that for me, the incidental benefits did not outweigh the cost difference.

The issue I think a lot of people took with the recent poster is that he had shifting justifications for his impulse purchase. Had he cancelled the purchase, and then a few days later, went back out and made the same exact decision, I suspect it would've silenced a lot of people. He had a lot of disposable discretionary income and I can actually see the case that this was the best decision for him. But he certainly wasn't making a purely financial decision argument (value of personal time, notwithstanding).

So I ask again, if I decided today, that I want to buy a DVD timeshare and am unclear on the differences between resale and direct and whether or not it's "worth it," what argument would you make that I should buy direct over resale?

 

[Ben E N]

Securing your DVD timeshare, by way of direct sale and financing, has been a wonderful experience that has created invaluable memories for you and your family. I doubt there is anyone on this board that can provide a valid argument against why you choosing to purchase and finance a direct purchase was a bad decision for you.

Even as gillep said and you quoted and bolded above DVC was "the best thing we have ever spent money on." Buying in this way was the right personal decisions for you both. I, for one, would never attempt to argue otherwise, as I do not know you, your vacationing needs, what makes you happy, or your finances.

The tough spot you'll run into is if you make the argument, which I don't think you or gillep are making, that buying direct with financing is the best financial decision that a person can make, once they've decided to buy in. Any such assertion would have to be based on analysis of empirical data readily available. All of which would prove this statement false.

It's the reason why I ask you what advice you would give to someone buying in today, in the current resale market. It's a question I would still like to get your thoughts on, as your initial response, "don't buy," would seem to contradict your sentiments that the memories you have made over the past 20 years have been amazing.

When I came to the boards, I wondered what the differences (this was post differentiated member statuses) were between resale and direct. There was a lot of positions on both sides. I weighed this and realized that for me, the incidental benefits did not outweigh the cost difference.

The issue I think a lot of people took with the recent poster is that he had shifting justifications for his impulse purchase. Had he cancelled the purchase, and then a few days later, went back out and made the same exact decision, I suspect it would've silenced a lot of people. He had a lot of disposable discretionary income and I can actually see the case that this was the best decision for him. But he certainly wasn't making a purely financial decision argument (value of personal time, notwithstanding).

So I ask again, if I decided today, that I want to buy a DVD timeshare and am unclear on the differences between resale and direct and whether or not it's "worth it," what argument would you make that I should buy direct over resale?

Resale buyers are justifying their points, which go for less because they are worth less. You are not a "true" member in DVC's eyes, and they are starting to go to great lengths to make it a two-class system.go

From what I read, that was the only one listed. The original poster from the other thread also said that his time was more valuable than the money he would have saved by going resale, but then he spent days researching and defending his position on Disboards, so I didn't quit

 

[gillep]

Securing your DVD timeshare, by way of direct sale and financing, has been a wonderful experience that has created invaluable memories for you and your family. I doubt there is anyone on this board that can provide a valid argument against why you choosing to purchase and finance a direct purchase was a bad decision for you.

Even as gillep said and you quoted and bolded above DVC was "the best thing we have ever spent money on." Buying in this way was the right personal decisions for you both. I, for one, would never attempt to argue otherwise, as I do not know you, your vacationing needs, what makes you happy, or your finances.

The tough spot you'll run into is if you make the argument, which I don't think you or gillep are making, that buying direct with financing is the best financial decision that a person can make, once they've decided to buy in. Any such assertion would have to be based on analysis of empirical data readily available. All of which would prove this statement false.

It's the reason why I ask you what advice you would give to someone buying in today, in the current resale market. It's a question I would still like to get your thoughts on, as your initial response, "don't buy," would seem to contradict your sentiments that the memories you have made over the past 20 years have been amazing.

When I came to the boards, I wondered what the differences (this was post differentiated member statuses) were between resale and direct. There was a lot of positions on both sides. I weighed this and realized that for me, the incidental benefits did not outweigh the cost difference.

The issue I think a lot of people took with the recent poster is that he had shifting justifications for his impulse purchase. Had he cancelled the purchase, and then a few days later, went back out and made the same exact decision, I suspect it would've silenced a lot of people. He had a lot of disposable discretionary income and I can actually see the case that this was the best decision for him. But he certainly wasn't making a purely financial decision argument (value of personal time, notwithstanding).

So I ask again, if I decided today, that I want to buy a DVD timeshare and am unclear on the differences between resale and direct and whether or not it's "worth it," what argument would you make that I should buy direct over resale?

I know that you were not specifically asking me however, I will say that I pretty much agree with your post. I would NEVER make the claim that purchasing direct with financing is the best financial decision that one could make, in fact, I have been very clear that I understand that for us it was not a good decision from a purely financial stand point. However, we live in a world with shades of gray, so a lot more went into the reasoning behind our purchase than just the financials. Many people come to the DIS to ask about DVC from a purely financial standpoint, and there is no way that I would even entertain the idea that a direct purchase with financing is a good idea in that case.

I purchased my initial direct contract in the midst of the recession, and my resale contract earlier this year, before the resale market really started soaring, so the market is so different now that I would really have to approach any recommendations I made regarding DVC with a lot of caution, and would absolutely recommend that someone seek out a place like the DIS where they can get a variety of opinions, and to take their time. I would likely encourage a direct purchase, if for instance, they were SPECIFICALLY looking for CCV where there isn't a resale market, or a resort, or point amount, where the costs are basically the same between direct and resale. Personally though, I would be hard pressed to encourage anyone to purchase DVC resale right now if they were looking at it from a purely financial standpoint, as the prices are so high right now. I would certainly encourage them to take a look at historical pricing, to determine if they think that the current prices are 'worth it' for them. Again though, people have a lot of different reasons for purchasing DVC, some financial and some not. I actually tend to avoid the financial DVC discussions, because that aspect of the purchase isn't something that I feel I can really speak to, focusing more on sharing my experiences with DVC overall, and whether I am happy with my purchase.

I guess I just don't get offended or bothered easily, as I read the boards pretty much every day, and I don't personally see the shaming that others do regarding either financing or direct purchases, I see a lot of opinionated people and frank discussions, but I don't really let other people's opinions bother me too much, as I know that their is likely much more to each story than is communicated on a message board. I have also been around a while (lurking and on and off posting for many years), so it may be that I just have more experience reading many posts from long time posters, so I am more familiar with their style, and therefore am able to see where they are coming from, and context, in a way that a new poster may not.

 

[Toreby]

There's nothing wrong with buying direct, especially if it's a contract with less than 50 pts, and/or it's a resort where the price is close to the resale price. I saw the thread you're referring to, and think that some of the 'harsher" comments were directed as much towards the reasons for buying direct as it was towards the purchase itself. The OP in that thread listed 4 reasons for buying direct: they do not like to buy used (it's a timeshare, they're all used), he is not a negotiator (offer full price then), 1 BR appeals to them the most (yet they ended up with Poly which only has studios) and finally the blue card. If someone does not want the hassle of buying resale and has the money to pay the mouse, then good for them, but those are just not very good reasons to buy direct and I think a lot of people felt that the OP was trying to justify the purchase to himself.

 

[glamdring269]

Just curious, what's the difference between 50 and less than 50? Not trying to split hairs just wondering if there is a specific line of demarcation there that makes a 50 point contract suddenly more attractive to purchase via resale (and I'm mainly speaking from the perspective of an add on contract and not a new buyer).

 

[Ben E N]

Just curious, what's the difference between 50 and less than 50? Not trying to split hairs just wondering if there is a specific line of demarcation there that makes a 50 point contract suddenly more attractive to purchase via resale (and I'm mainly speaking from the perspective of an add on contract and not a new buyer).

Those contracts are more commonly available, and therefore a lower price per point. The difference in price per point is also multiplied over more points, making the higher closing costs, and the slight added hassle, more worth it financially and timewise.

 

[Bing Showei]

Just curious, what's the difference between 50 and less than 50? Not trying to split hairs just wondering if there is a specific line of demarcation there that makes a 50 point contract suddenly more attractive to purchase via resale (and I'm mainly speaking from the perspective of an add on contract and not a new buyer).

For a Resale contract <50pts
- Closing costs will be the same as a contract with 200 points, about $700 dollars.
- Small contracts are rare and get snatched up quickly so sellers price them higher than market rate for larger contracts.
- Contracts will often be stripped of current year points, sometimes next year points.

For a Direct DVD contract <50pts
- Closing cost at Disney is anywhere between $150 and $250 dollars.
- You often get current use year points which can be rented/used to close the cost gap with resale further.

Those factors all drive the prices between a resale and direct contract much closer together. Throw in the incidentals and the equation usually tips towards Direct.

 

[glamdring269]

I guess it's just the recent market at certain resorts where this norm is just not holding true. Tried negotiating on a couple of small point BWV contracts (50 points) and the final/firm asking price is actually greater than just buying direct once taking closing/stripped points into account. I guess there could be a sucker out there?

 

[Bing Showei]

For a Resale contract <50pts
- Closing costs will be the same as a contract with 200 points, about $700 dollars.
- Small contracts are rare and get snatched up quickly so sellers price them higher than market rate for larger contracts.
- Contracts will often be stripped of current year points, sometimes next year points.

For a Direct DVD contract <50pts
- Closing cost at Disney is anywhere between $150 and $250 dollars.
- You often get current use year points which can be rented/used to close the cost gap with resale further.

Those factors all drive the prices between a resale and direct contract much closer together. Throw in the incidentals and the equation usually tips towards Direct.

Sorry, just realizing that really doesn't answer your question. I think there is no clear demarcation. Small point contracts seem to jump from 50 to 100, I would group 50pt in with a 25pt contract in terms of the economics.

 

[PSUDinsey]

What is the break even point of a direct contract now? I agonized over my resale contract that was low 80’s pp with a break even point of what I thought would be 8-10 years.

 

[Matty B13]

For new owners looking to buy into DVC the minimum purchase is 50 points direct, an add on only needs 25 to buy.

That is the line of demarcation that is seen, buying resale first then adding 25 points direct for benefits, as opposed to buying 50 direct and then buying resale.

 

[Dean]

After reading all the replies to the person who had the audacity to run the numbers and still buy direct for convenience sake, among other reasons, it occurs to me that buying direct has become just like the "Don't buy unless you can pay cash" bludgeoning that goes on in the boards.

The truth is, direct points have a lot of value today, and they will likely have even more value in days to come as DVC continues to incentivize direct points, particularly with ticket deals.

The 25 point direct loophole is likely to become a thing of the past in a hurry for new buyers.

It's one thing to point out to new people that, "Hey, there's a resale market" and another to go after them because they value what the direct points offer.

There's no doubt about it: Direct points today are premium points. We'll save several hundred dollars on the passes this year, and WDW ticket prices are going nowhere but up.

There are certainly reasons to go retail but far too often it's a waste of money for all the wrong reasons. As with pay cash, it's not about telling people what to do but rather encouraging them to make good choices, control their risk, buy what they can afford and actually get what they think they're getting for their money. IMO the only ones that should buy direct, ignoring the 25-50 pt add on issue, are those who are experienced with the system and they know they're getting something they'll use they couldn't do with resale. This basically leaves out almost all new buyers and is limited to those that will essentially only use the direct option for that single resort they couldn't get otherwise. The other advantage of buying resale is it forces one to become better educated up front which will cause them to make better overall purchase decisions.

 

[MrInfinity]

This shaming factor is not just a disboards thing. I don't know about you all, but I'm on forums about many different subjects. This shaming happens everywhere. On every forum there is a group of 20-30 regulars who have answered the same questions a thousand times, and if you come in new and say something not researched for hours, days or months first, you'll get slammed. It has to do with being anonymous and not having a vested interest in real social interaction with someone you'll never know. If this was in person, and someone bought a new car and brought it up at work, the first response would not be... A) did you overpay, B) you should have saved by researching for 6 months first, and C) return it now and buy (whatever) instead or you've made a bad financial decision and wasted money, sucks to be you. Those conversations do not happen because it would kill any future social interaction, and you have/want to interact with them. People would be like oh that's awesome, tell me about the features, what you love, how does it drive, how excited were your kids, etc. It's understood that they made a financial decision that they were comfortable with. You would think the same thing would happen in a forum about vacations... someone buys direct, likes their purchase, is happy with their purchase, comes out to the forums to share their enjoyment of being in the club, and should find high fives and stories about something we all love, but instead they're told some nasty stuff and they leave.

 

[kniquy]

Despite many people here noting that emotionally buying direct was the best decision for their family - there are the numbers and financials that should also weigh heavy in the decision making process.

I am sure that there are many members or ex-members who bought caught up while on a cruise or while at WDW -- they then came home and really realized that they can not afford the extra monthly payment -- thank goodness for the 10 day back-out period! Some people are ok with financing and paying more for something than they should -why else are there so many credit cards out there!!

I know in our personal situation in 2015 we could not have afforded to pay the ~$170 pp for direct poly (which would have put us at over $20K for a 120 point contract). We opted to buy resale for 120 points AKV for less than $10K cash--it is what we could afford at the time. (Yes we probably could have swung the payment for the poly contract but it is not what we were comfortable doing.) Our AKV contract is still getting us the benefits of discounts and AP and we are still able to stay at Poly!!

Despite the changes in resale restriction i would probably still buy resale, but our situation is a little different -- we only go every other year so the dining and AP discounts would only hedge a little savings. DVC saves money, but buying resale it just saves you even more money. Within the next couple of years i will have broken even with our initial investment, so i have no complaints -- just the break even for direct buyers will be a bit longer.

It all boils down to what you want for your family and how much is it worth it to you personally. Everyone has a different outlook on their financials -- some think of every dime as a potential future financial investment (which is why we always hear the time value of money debate)
- some put some money for investing in the future but also have fun vacation money
- while others just play day by day and have no outlook on the future.

I put myself in the middle. I want to be comfortable in the future but i value the memories that i can make with a little vacation investments now. Everyone places themselves in the category that makes them the happiest.