The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

[speedyfishy]

• Without the purpose of fulfilling work, retirees can feel adrift and become depressed.

• They become sedentary and watch too much television. They eat too much. They drink too much. They smoke too much.

• The good news is that many older Americans are working longer.

• We should be encouraging older workers to stay on the job for their own health.

This is funny. Getting up in the morning and not doing what I want makes me depressed.

I’m not sedentary sitting at a desk all day??

 

[arminnie]

I’d never heard of FIRE but that’s what I did. I took early retirement at 55 which was 17 years ago.

I’d always saved a lot but went dead broke at 40 (oil and real estate collapse in Texas). What helped as much as my saving rate was moving after retirement from an extremely high cost area (San Francisco) to a low cost area -Arkansas.

One of the hardest things has been to start actually spending the money. We have a second home and travel often. My lifestyle is not nearly as frugal now.

Our Disney trips are not that expensive. We drive, stay in a DVC property (bought years ago) and get an AP via DVC. As our 2nd home is in New Orleans we have access to fabulous food at a fraction of Disney prices so don’t spend a lot on expensive TS meals.

 

[1st*toright]

From the WSJ: The Case Against Early Retirement: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-case-against-early-retirement-11555899000?mod=hp_featst_pos2

A few of my favorite parts:

• Without the purpose of fulfilling work, retirees can feel adrift and become depressed.
• They become sedentary and watch too much television. They eat too much. They drink too much. They smoke too much.
• The good news is that many older Americans are working longer.
• We should be encouraging older workers to stay on the job for their own health.

Ok - so you wrote an article about demeaning early retirement but then studied regular retirees...

I don’t think people chase FIRE to watch TV, eat, drink and smoke. I have never had a drink and have never smoked - I don’t think FIRE will force me to start. I’m already fairly sedentary, perhaps NOT sitting in front of computer 8 hrs a day would be an improvement. I envision a day partially spent taking a walk, working in my yard, riding a bike...(vs taking an after dinner nap because I’m tired after my workday)...ok who am I kidding, I’d take a nap too in early retirement

The fact that Americans working longer is “good news” is crazy to me! So let’s all just work until we die, it will be great for you! And while we’re at it, let’s encourage people to work longer “for their health” vs actually encouraging them to have better health.

This article...ugh...wow...

Did not read the article, but I know you well enough to trust your summary

I think there is a worthy point in there somewhere, that the idea of "retiring" from everything but leisure activities may not be the healthiest plan. Personally the idea of a life without purposefully directed labor (work) doesn't really appeal. But choosing my labor based on its value to me as opposed to $$$ - yeah, that is kind of the whole point of retiring early. And seriously - I am at a desk for 10+ hours every day. Pretty much any retirement scenario would have me being more active rather than less. Did they only survey retired postal workers who previously walked miles and are now drinking and smoking in front of their TVs?

I'm pretty sure that most of us who are chasing FIRE have a plan for what we would be able to do with our time if we could be work-free. The transition to retirement for people who never considered retiring, especially people who spend their whole lives at work, can be really hard. You hear about the lawyers who keep showing up at the office - they don't know what else to do with themselves!

My Dad retired early, but had consulting gigs/other business ventures/family obligations that kept him quite occupied. Plus, if he has any free time he goes and builds something (sometimes a home improvement project for me - very convenient). My mom had a much harder time with the transition. She didn't retire particularly early - kept working long after my dad retired - well into her 60s (changed careers in her 50s). I don't think she really had a plan for what post-work life would look like, other than spending time traveling for fun and visiting grandkids, which she does, but it wasn't "enough". Fortunately, she has gotten involved in volunteer work through her church (mostly teaching/assisting resettled refugee families), which is meaningful to her and helps give her life shape.

And my retired parents don't smoke, rarely drink, watch TV only when on their exercise bike and are far less sedentary than I am!

 

[tzolkin]

From the WSJ: The Case Against Early Retirement: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-case-against-early-retirement-11555899000?mod=hp_featst_pos2

A few of my favorite parts:

• Without the purpose of fulfilling work, retirees can feel adrift and become depressed.
• They become sedentary and watch too much television. They eat too much. They drink too much. They smoke too much.
• The good news is that many older Americans are working longer.
• We should be encouraging older workers to stay on the job for their own health.

Ok - so you wrote an article about demeaning early retirement but then studied regular retirees...

I don’t think people chase FIRE to watch TV, eat, drink and smoke. I have never had a drink and have never smoked - I don’t think FIRE will force me to start. I’m already fairly sedentary, perhaps NOT sitting in front of computer 8 hrs a day would be an improvement. I envision a day partially spent taking a walk, working in my yard, riding a bike...(vs taking an after dinner nap because I’m tired after my workday)...ok who am I kidding, I’d take a nap too in early retirement

The fact that Americans working longer is “good news” is crazy to me! So let’s all just work until we die, it will be great for you! And while we’re at it, let’s encourage people to work longer “for their health” vs actually encouraging them to have better health.

This article...ugh...wow...

I definitely can see where some of this could be true for retirees, but to me it doesn't really apply to FIRE.

In my experience those who fit the items you listed are those who do not have adequate savings. My grandparents are an example of exactly that. My grandfather retired as early as he could start receiving social security (didn't have anything else saved). They have essentially spent the last 30 years sitting in front of a television and arguing with each other.

Our idea of "retire early" is certainly not that. We still plan for both of us to be working at something productive, it's just that we will have the freedom to not be tied to a job. Perhaps do travel nursing or consulting where we can take a few months off to travel. Also, "fulfilling work" doesn't have to be work that pays anything. I have actually spent several of the last 15 years "not working/staying at home", but I always found plenty of volunteer opportunities which could be as involved as a FT job if I wanted them to be. I was able to do those things because we were financially stable enough for me to not need the income. The same would apply with FIRE, but it would be both of us rather than just one.

 

[georgina]

Yep, retirement for us is the freedom to choose our own schedules. We are still quite busy with travel and volunteer activities! Sometimes I am happy to look at my calendar for the day and see nothing though.

 

[elaine amj]

Right now my current FIRE schedule involves getting up, spending 2+ hrs in the pool (aquafit and laps), sometimes walking 1hr home after. I also take an afternoon nap. The rest of the time is unscheduled but there really isn't always a whole lot of extra time to fill once I complete my daily goal of 2-3hrs of physical activity.

It's also been really really nice to be able to drop everything to go help a friend in need.

I will likely get more productive in time but for now, I am ok being unproductive and just living a relatively quiet life.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Right now my current FIRE schedule involves getting up, spending 2+ hrs in the pool (aquafit and laps), sometimes walking 1hr home after. I also take an afternoon nap. The rest of the time is unscheduled but there really isn't always a whole lot of extra time to fill once I complete my daily goal of 2-3hrs of physical activity.

It's also been really really nice to be able to drop everything to go help a friend in need.

I will likely get more productive in time but for now, I am ok being unproductive and just living a relatively quiet life.

But are you smoking and drinking your way to an early death??? Inquiring minds want to know Do you feel like returning to work would be best for your health

 

[Jitzy]

But are you smoking and drinking your way to an early death??? Inquiring minds want to know Do you feel like returning to work would be best for your health

LOL, I have read however that sometimes in retirement, retirees have so much free time, they run around more doing errands and end up spending more money than when they worked full-time. Maybe returning to work would be best for your pocketbook!

 

[elaine amj]

But are you smoking and drinking your way to an early death??? Inquiring minds want to know Do you feel like returning to work would be best for your health

According to the stats, tht's what I should be doing right? LOL

I have actually never smoked before and have a glass maybe every 1-2 months. As a FIREe, I am proudly defying expectations!

Having way too much fun swimming/ walking/cycling/canoeing to watch TV all day. Oh and I started going to a weekly dance class too!

 

[pillow]

Having way too much fun swimming/ walking/cycling/canoeing to watch TV all day. Oh and I started going to a weekly dance class too!

Curious to know where you do these things. Is it difficult to find people your age to socialize with during the day since most folks are working?

 

[elaine amj]

LOL, I have read however that sometimes in retirement, retirees have so much free time, they run around more doing errands and end up spending more money than when they worked full-time. Maybe returning to work would be best for your pocketbook!

I do have to admit we run a LOT of errands! Don't know how we used to have time to work. Thankfully we don't get easily tempted to spend unnecessarily so that isn't quite a problem for us.

Annoying to spend so much tIme on errands though!

 

[elaine amj]

Curious to know where you do these things. Is it difficult to find people your age to socialize with during the day since most folks are working?

I spend a lot of time with seniors these days LOL!! I have a membership at the city pool. The pool is surprisingly social with lots of chatty folks. Plus, I am having wayyy more fun doing fitness classes with seniors - I feel like superwoman instead of the slowest person in class haha! Fabulous for the tender ego I am pretty social and enjoy hanging out with folks of all ages so have no issues making new senior friends.

A few months ago, I met a lady in her early thirties from China at the pool who was at loose ends. She had only been here a short time, was not working and feeling very lonely. So she hangs out with us a lot.

I also spend a lot of time by myself. Few people I know want to be active for the length of time I prefer so I am happy going for long walks/bike rides/swims by myself.

I got a season pass to our local canoe rental place and friends are slowly crawling out of the woodwork

I also have DH and my mother at home and we all like each other so that works out.

Otherwise, I see the people I normally see at the times I normally used to see them when I was working - on evenings and weekends. It is a bit easier for me as I am not as rushed but it still takes effort (just as before) to see dear friends regularly.

My two best friends are pretty busy these days with their families so sadly I don't get to see them very often. It is helpful that I can be flexible and work around their schedules though. Still we have planned our annual group trip together this summer, I went on a cruise with one best friend and her family in the spring and am planning a couples trip with my other best friend this summer.

 

[speedyfishy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/financiali...inancial/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

This is hysterical

 

[elaine amj]

https://www.reddit.com/r/financiali...inancial/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

This is hysterical

LOL! Completely appropriate for this thread!

 

[bernina]

Hello!! It’s so nice to see so many friendly faces from the credit card thread. I had no idea this thread existed until I saw a mention from @SouthFayetteFan.

Just when I thought it couldn’t get much better than combining my love of Disney and travel hacking via credit cards and now FIRE is added as well!

I’ll admit I’m still very new to the idea. I first stumbled across the concept when researching backdoor Roth IRA (which we’ve been utilizing for 3 or so years now).

DH and I both work in IT. He works for a major health insurance company and I work for one of the big 3 auto manufacturers (I work in IT but on the financial side of the company and my day to day job involves managing our $300 million IT budget). I’m 42 and DH is 47. We have an 8 yo daughter.

I’ve been playing the credit card game since 2013 and have managed to offset between $5-$12k in travel expenses each year (some years I didn’t put much effort into it, other years we hit the game hard). This year I’ve stepped back into the game and hope to be more active on the credit card thread. DH started as a reluctant player 2 but now he’s fully onboard for any crazy ideas I throw at him.

Switching to FIRE... DH and I are both very lucky that we have substantial pensions with our employers. We both got in right before pensions were eliminated and moved to 401k matching only. We probably make less than we could if we were to leave our current employers and get similar jobs with other companies, however we feel our pensions more than make up for it. I also do not solely count on a pension, we both know anything can and will happen so that is just one of our savings avenues (I treat social security the same, it will be a bonus if we end up getting something). My employer also has a program that will pay the portion I’d get from social security if I retire before I’m eligible to draw social security. I started my job right out of college (21) and will have 30 years in 2029. That would mean retiring at 52 which is my goal.

-We’re both close to maxing out 401ks (we definitely max out for employer contributions)
-We max out 2 Roth IRAs using the backdoor process. We’ve been doing this for about 6-7 years. This is our primary savings vehicle for DD’s college/wedding.
-This is the first year we have access to a HSA. DH wasn’t quite sure about maxing it out so I think he only put $5k in this year ($2k is employer contribution). Next year we’re maxing out for sure!

We pay about $2k in mortgage (principle and interest) each month. We have a 15 year fixed with around 8 years left. A fallback we have is that our mortgage will be paid off while DD is still in high school and that $2k/mo would cover a good portion of tuition (right now the top university in our state, Michigan, is $25k/year, obviously that could double with inflation). We are also tossing around the idea of paying off the mortgage early. We throw in an extra payment each year right now.

I’m still very early in the process of figuring out our savings rates. Doing some rough calculations (starting with combined pay after all taxes removed) and then counting how much we save in 401k, Roth, plus the amount we put into liquid savings, I got to around 38%. This was actually quite a bit higher than we thought so I want to run the numbers again.

I’m so sorry this turned into a long and rambling post. I read up to page 13 last night in one setting and hope to get through the other 30 some pages in the next few weeks. I love having a friendly group of folks with similar goals to bounce ideas off and also for accountability. Each person/couple is in this race with only themselves but it is a great motivator to hear of the success others are having and celebrate along with them. We all have to start somewhere and I go back to I think @SouthFayetteFan who said you can become a millionaire by saving $1 a million times. Sometimes it feels like that’s all I can do but over time it really does become a small pebble that starts an avalanche.

I look forward to joining you all on this journey!!

 

[elaine amj]

Welcome @bernina! I have been working on FIRE for a while now but just recently started hanging out here. It's definitely a change in ideas and goals. I liked best the switch from "how much do I need" to "how little do I need". We hit our number and I retired a few months ago at 39. DH is on leave now and may return to work for a while in the future - he is not sure yet. He has a sweet pension plan but I don't want him to tie himself down just for more money. If we have enough, we have enough. So we are just counting on a tiny amount from his pension in our FIRE math.

 

[MickeyMouseCD524]

I’m new to this thread and started chasing FIRE late last year. This may seem like a silly question but for those that have achieved FIRE are you living off your dividends and interest? I’m currently maxing our my IRAs and working on the 401k (I switched employers this year so maxing out might prove a little difficult.)

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

I’m new to this thread and started chasing FIRE late last year. This may seem like a silly question but for those that have achieved FIRE are you living off your dividends and interest? I’m currently maxing our my IRAs and working on the 401k (I switched employers this year so maxing out might prove a little difficult.)

I figure that anybody who has achieved FIRE and retired has to be living off of one of 3 things:

• Dividends, Interest & Distributions from stocks (probably using some SWR of 2.5-4%)
• A portfolio of rental real estate
• A pension or some defined benefit plan that they qualified for at a "young-ish" age (i.e. achieved 30 years service at age 51)

I do think we have a few FIREd folks here on the thread who are living off of #1 above My goal is to achieve #1 by 45ish (so in about 10 years).

 

[bernina]

Welcome @bernina! I have been working on FIRE for a while now but just recently started hanging out here. It's definitely a change in ideas and goals. I liked best the switch from "how much do I need" to "how little do I need". We hit our number and I retired a few months ago at 39. DH is on leave now and may return to work for a while in the future - he is not sure yet. He has a sweet pension plan but I don't want him to tie himself down just for more money. If we have enough, we have enough. So we are just counting on a tiny amount from his pension in our FIRE math.

Thank you and congratulations on your recent retirement at the ripe old age of 39, that is awesome!!!!

You hit the nail on the head with my biggest dilemma. Do I continue to chase that dangling carrot of a very generous pension, knowing that I will need to work full time for the next 10 years, sacrificing time with my daughter while she's still school aged, or do I reduce hours (my company allows working part time for a pro-rated salary/benefits) and add years to when I'd be able to fully retire. My job is frankly killing me slowly at this point, we're going through layoffs and a major redesign and the climate is not good. I'm mid level management which I think is one of the worst places to be as you get squeezed from those below and those above, I call it the valley between the rank and file and executives, everything rolls downhill right on top of you. I'm working to address this as it's spilling over to my personal life and I can't take that any longer. There are definite changes I can and will make and I hope to be able to get to a healthier work/life balance and avoid bringing work (and stress) home. On the positive side, DH's employer has gone to nearly full time WFH, he usually only goes into the office 1 day a week. This should cut down on gas as well as eating out. He's also been a huge help with picking up DD when I'm stuck at work.

I figure the first place to start is a detailed analysis of how we're doing savings wise and just as importantly, spending wise. We've always been pretty good at minimizing debt and maximizing savings, but due to 2 comfortable salaries, our spending is so much higher than I would like for a family of 3! I track my expenses in tons of detail using YNAB and some secondary spreadsheets. DH manages his own money (we're joint on all accounts except credit cards and have full visibility to each others accounts) so I'm going to need some time to analyze his spending patterns. We don't have any debt other than a mortgage, but we spend way too much on eating out, so much so that I don't even have a number (yet) as DH pays most of that on his credit card.

I'm going to try out @SouthFayetteFan's formula of calculating savings rate, then the big work of listing out our expenses and playing around with scenarios if we didn't change our spending patterns, and if we did. It's going to be hard to convince DH we should scale back on some items, but if I can show him cold hard facts (i.e. reduced number of working years!) that might help.

Now to find the best tools/calculators for all of this fun stuff!

 

[arminnie]

I am now in my 70s - retired at 55. I have no need to leave an inheritance to anyone so I am spending down some of my retirement funds. That's heresy to most financial planners who say to only take 3 or 4% out per year so the money will last forever. I don't need my money to last forever.

My BFF is now 93. She used to travel all over the world and do lots of things. As she got older she slowed down and then stopped due to age related issues. Although she's always up for our Thursday lunches at Commander's Palace in New Orleans.

So my advice is that after you do retire spend some of it earlier if you can because you may not be able to do it later. I traveled a lot during my early retirement (Amalfi Coast, Venice, Budapest, Paris, London, Prague, Costa Rica, Mexico, WDW etc all separate trips). I'm so glad that I did that as I now have a degenerative nerve disease that has me in a wheelchair, and I will not be making anymore overseas trips.

But even if you do not develop a medical condition that restricts one like mine does old age will slow you down. You will not be able to do the things at 90 that you would at 55.

I've always had a doomsday plan. If all of my investments disappeared there's a wonderful independent living community where my uncle and my father both lived that I could afford off of my SS only (I get max benefits). Many residents hired personal helpers for an hour or two a day if needed and several residents were well into their 90s and one was 104.

Even if I was destitute and needed a nursing home I live in an area (Arkansas) where there are wonderful nursing homes that accept Medicaid patients. That's not true everywhere - but that's part of why I retired here.

It was still difficult for me to start spending money after I'd been such a scrooge for so long. I traveled all over the world staying in 5 star hotels and flying business class on business trips when I was working so I was always reluctant to spend MY money to travel when all of that was paid for. But I am so glad that I did learn how to travel on my dime (not spending as much) after I retired. I don't think I took more than 4 vacations other than to visit family during the decades that I was working. I have no regret for that either.