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The Running Thread - 2018

ATTQO


I love running on the beltline! It's always a part of my long runs and some shorter ones too.

Do you run in the mornings? i wonder if we ever pass each other. i am usually out there in the morning. This weekend am probably running at Kennesaw on Saturday and Sweetwater on Sunday. Getting my trail runs in for prep for the 50k but i will be out on the beltline on tuesday morning.
 
I usually run at night except for speedwork, which I do on the track. Which 50K? I did Yeti Snakebite in 2017, great race, I might do it again this year if the timing is right.
 
I usually run at night except for speedwork, which I do on the track. Which 50K? I did Yeti Snakebite in 2017, great race, I might do it again this year if the timing is right.

i am doing Cloudland Canyon 50k by Run Bum Tours. Where is the Yeti race? i know they do one at Sweetwater. I personally think that white trail at sweetwater is tough, which is why i keep doing it.
 
OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?
 


OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?

First i am going to say only you know that answer to that, you know your body. However i get the madness and the looking for opinions. You and I seem to be on a bit of a similar running path of the last few months (hopefully get to meet you at disney bummed about the chicago shake out run). Mind you my answer is going to be based on how I feel, which may not be how you feel. I would say no. I know you mentioned some PF flare up and i personally am a little burnt out. Chicago took a lot out of me and i am using Disney as training for the 50k. I am even considering real time off from running after the 50k. I might do some Orange theory for a month or two. I am burnt out and my back is now starting to bother me, so i just want to get through Feb.

Now i have said i might do the Disboards Ragnar in May if that decision gets made. I would have to run but in March but i am still looking forward to some time off. I am thinking the summer will be runs during the week and long bike rides on the weekends.

Just my $0.02 hoping you are not as beat up as me.
 
ATTQOTD: I like to study the course map because I like to know where I am going. Even if I’m not familiar with the area, I like to know how long we will be running any particular way before a turn. I guess it’s a head thing for me. And of course I check out the elevation. I would rather know ahead of time how bad a hill will be instead of being surprised by it.

I ran 19 miles in the rain today and it was miserable. It was supposed to be a 20 mile run and my last long run before Goofy but I ran out of time because I had to be at my son’s school for an event. I stopped by my house after 14 miles so I could change clothes and shoes. I stayed dry for less than a mile because the rain picked back up so I’m not sure how much that helped. Glad I got it done but I felt like I got my butt kicked today.
 


OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?

So I have to own being one of the people asking if you are going to do a 50 Miler next...

I would say do it. If your fitness has you completing 50k and you have Goofy upcoming then you could handle the 50 miler. And 15 hours is very generous, which would allow you to go slow. Still, you mentioned having some PF issues recently. 50 straight road miles is going to have an impact on a sore PF. More concerning could be a secondary issue from favoring an injury (this is my ankle doctor talking through me). Ultimately you need to decide, but my thought would be to rest your body more and then shoot for the distance in the spring. I would guess NC has a ton of 50 Milers just waiting for you to toe the line. Good luck in what ever you decide and congrats again on the 50k!
 
OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?

Do it! DH is doing it too! I should just send you his race schedule, lol. It will be his first time at this race but all his friends do it and love it. Pretty much the same group of locals that ran Seashore with you will be out there. Goofy would be the perfect taper into a 50 miler.
 
OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?

How many toenails do you have left?

I kind of think if you are considering any 50 mile "appealing" than maybe you should do it.
Coming off my first marathon, no other marathon was "appealing" enough yet to sign up for it. So if you are already in a good head space then might as well capitalize on it.
As long as you have most of your toenails still.
 
OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?

Not a bad idea at all. When training for a 50-mile race, you need lots of time on your feet. You could use Goofy as your last peak run, though the hours are flipped from a typical training plan. If you sign up for the race, and I think you should, I'd recommend something like this for your next few weeks of long runs before a taper:

12/22 3 hours
12/23 2 hours
12/29 3-4 hours
12/30 2-3 hours
1/5 4-5 hours
1/6 2 hours
1/12 2-3 hours (half)
1/13 5-6 hours (full)
 
My last big run was on Tuesday (written for Wednesday - had to push things around to accommodate kids Christmas break). Thankfully the last of me shuffling around the schedule ends tomorrow! So happy that I’m going to have both my husband and family around for these last few weeks so I can round out my training. I was so nervous about being by myself and training and @DopeyBadger basically made my dopey dreams a reality. Thank you so much, Billy!

ETA: I’m pretty sure people were taking about their last long run on the Marathon thread but I’m just leaving this here lol
 
First off, thanks for all the replies so far. I don’t have a lot of runners in my local circle and it’s great to have a group to bounce ideas off of and get feedback from. Convincing DW that this is, if not a good idea, at least not a terrible one, is going to be the real challenge.

First i am going to say only you know that answer to that, you know your body. However i get the madness and the looking for opinions. You and I seem to be on a bit of a similar running path of the last few months (hopefully get to meet you at disney bummed about the chicago shake out run). Mind you my answer is going to be based on how I feel, which may not be how you feel. I would say no. I know you mentioned some PF flare up and i personally am a little burnt out. Chicago took a lot out of me and i am using Disney as training for the 50k. I am even considering real time off from running after the 50k. I might do some Orange theory for a month or two. I am burnt out and my back is now starting to bother me, so i just want to get through Feb.

Now i have said i might do the Disboards Ragnar in May if that decision gets made. I would have to run but in March but i am still looking forward to some time off. I am thinking the summer will be runs during the week and long bike rides on the weekends.

Just my $0.02 hoping you are not as beat up as me.

I’m hoping to see you at WDW, as well! There are definitely times I feel a little burned out these days with the busy fall season, but I’m trying to balance that feeling with the opportunity to take my current fitness a little further. If I take a break after Goofy, it’ll be a much taller hill to climb to get my fitness back to this point. The PF is very minor and more twinges here and there than an injury right now, but I would definitely see how it responds to Goofy before committing to the 50 miler. I hope you get the opportunity to run the Ragnar. Relays with a good group of people are great fun!

So I have to own being one of the people asking if you are going to do a 50 Miler next...

I would say do it. If your fitness has you completing 50k and you have Goofy upcoming then you could handle the 50 miler. And 15 hours is very generous, which would allow you to go slow. Still, you mentioned having some PF issues recently. 50 straight road miles is going to have an impact on a sore PF. More concerning could be a secondary issue from favoring an injury (this is my ankle doctor talking through me). Ultimately you need to decide, but my thought would be to rest your body more and then shoot for the distance in the spring. I would guess NC has a ton of 50 Milers just waiting for you to toe the line. Good luck in what ever you decide and congrats again on the 50k!

Slow would definitely be the name of the game. I also think I’ll be much better able to manage pacing and fatigue in a road race. I’m less worried about the PF in a road situation and I’m almost positive this isn’t a secondary issue. It seems to twinge on me when I over flex my foot. I think that’s what happened this weekend with all of the variability in strides due to the trails and stepping on roots on occasion. Surprisingly, the ultra situation in NC is relatively limited and almost all of them are on trails. Finding this one on roads was a nice surprise.

Do it! DH is doing it too! I should just send you his race schedule, lol. It will be his first time at this race but all his friends do it and love it. Pretty much the same group of locals that ran Seashore with you will be out there. Goofy would be the perfect taper into a 50 miler.

I’ve got to be careful or you guys are going to report me as a stalker! I promise not to shoot for the Badwater Cape Fear this year if he’s going to run it again! Maybe we’ll get to meet at this one, though.

How many toenails do you have left?

I kind of think if you are considering any 50 mile "appealing" than maybe you should do it.
Coming off my first marathon, no other marathon was "appealing" enough yet to sign up for it. So if you are already in a good head space then might as well capitalize on it.
As long as you have most of your toenails still.

“Appealing” is a strong word. Maybe “intriguing” would be a better word. Once I’ve accomplished something my inclination is to look for the next natural step, hence my tag line. Just finished a 50k? Time to look at a 50m! It just happens.

Strangely enough, toenails haven’t been an issue for me. I got one black toenail after my first half marathon. It never fell off and I’ve not had another since. Hopefully this doesn’t jinx me!

Not a bad idea at all. When training for a 50-mile race, you need lots of time on your feet. You could use Goofy as your last peak run, though the hours are flipped from a typical training plan. If you sign up for the race, and I think you should, I'd recommend something like this for your next few weeks of long runs before a taper:

12/22 3 hours
12/23 2 hours
12/29 3-4 hours
12/30 2-3 hours
1/5 4-5 hours
1/6 2 hours
1/12 2-3 hours (half)
1/13 5-6 hours (full)

Thanks! This definitely helps me put some things in perspective and tentatively plan. I’ve been kind of winging it since my Chicago plan ended. Apparently it has worked so far, but I hate to be off the beaten path, preferring to have a proven plan to follow.
 
OK. I need advice here. My mind works in strange ways, not always to my long term benefit. After completing last weekend's 50k, a popular question for me has been "so are you going to try a 50 miler now?" Up until now the answer has been let's wait and see. Until I get bored on a slow day at work and wonder "what ultras are being held in NC next year?" Well, it turns out that there is a very appealing 50 miler being held on February 2nd. It is a road course rather than a trail, which is a plus, and the course runs from the lighthouse in Corolla down to the Bodie Island lighthouse and then a bit further to historic Jennette's Pier. It will be beautiful, if perhaps cold and windy. The time limit is a very generous 15 hours (18 minutes/mile), so running out of time shouldn't be an issue. Is it a bad idea to run a race like that on the heels of Goofy in January or, as I am rationalizing it, should I just continue to capitalize on my current fitness through one more big race?

So just for perspective, I did the same 50k you did. I’ve done it four times and it was by far my worst effort there. It took all he mental power I could muster to finish. I actually handed in my bib at mile 22 and went back and got it and finished. That’s how wiped I was. So the question I would ask you is how were doing mentally when you finished Seashore? And at what point did in the race did you start to do more walking than running? Because I get it - logically in our mind we would say I did 31 hours in “X” amount of hours. I have more hours than that to go a shorter distance. But if you were mentally and physically busted at 31 or even earlier, those remaining 19 miles are going to feel like another 50k. Your mental game better be top notch because it’s going to wear on you big time. I know there is no way I could have logged another 19 miles.

I don’t say this to discourage you. If you want to do it, then awesome, go do it. But I would caution against just doing the math and saying it’s plenty of time in relation to my previous effort. As you may have experienced this past weekend, a 50k is “only” five more miles than a marathon. But they can feel like another marathon if you aren’t ready for them.

Good luck whatever you decide. It looks like an interesting race in a beautiful area. I’m going to put it on my radar for 2020.
 
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So just for perspective, I did the same 50k you did. I’ve done it four times and it was by far my worst effort there. It took all he mental power I could muster to finish. I actually handed in my bib at mile 22 and went back and got it and finished. That’s how wiped I was. So the question I would ask you is how were doing mentally when you finished Seashore? And at what point did in the race did you start to do more walking than running? Because I get it - logically in our mind we would say I did 31 hours in “X” amount of hours. I have more hours than that to go a shorter distance. But if you were mentally and physically busted at 31 or even earlier, those remaining 19 miles are going to feel like another 50k. Your mental game better be top notch because it’s going to wear on you big time. I know there is no way I could have logged another 19 miles.

I don’t say this to discourage you. If you want to do it, then awesome, go do it. But I would caution against just doing the math and saying it’s plenty of time in relation to my previous effort. As you may have experienced this past weekend, a 50k is “only” five more miles than a marathon. But they can feel like another marathon if you aren’t ready for them.

Good luck whatever you decide. It looks like an interesting race in a beautiful area. I’m going to put it on my radar for 2020.

Thanks for the feedback! Mentally I was doing fine at the end. I was tired and ready to finish, but I wasn’t feeling beaten. I’d say I went through a mental slump about halfway through the race, but it was temporary and I was able to regain my focus. Physically, I started run/walking after the halfway point while largely maintaining pace, but didn’t start doing more walking than running until near the 2/3 - 3/4 portion of the course. That was the most technically challenging and fatiguing portion and it carried over into part of the return leg. I actually returned to more running walking for the last 5 miles. Going back to Strava, my pacing was roughly:

Miles 1-21: pretty consistent pacing
Miles 21-25: significantly reduced pace, more walk than run
Miles 26-31: consistent pacing, not quite as fast as 1-21, more run than walk

I think it’s definitely worth reiterating that this was only the 2nd trail race I’ve ever run and the rain and muddy conditions presented a challenge I did not properly adjust for, leading to a lot of the dip in pacing. I don’t think I would have these same issues with the road race. I also find trail running far more mentally fatiguing due to the need to be much more focused on foot placement.

Your “doing the math” caution is a good one. I can sometimes feel like my distance potential is unlimited if I just slow down enough. Here, though, I think it’s worth mentioning that I was far less sore after the 50k and have bounced back much more quickly than from Chicago. With the 50 miler I feel like I’ll be trading a high mentally and physically fatiguing course for one that is less mentally and physically fatiguing, but much longer. I just don’t have the experience to do the math and solve that equation for “good idea” or “bad idea” at this point.

ETA: Sorry you had a struggle out there last weekend! What do you think led to this being so difficult for you, especially since you were familiar with the course? We must have passed each other a couple of times, at least.
 
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@croach am curious too, what made it so hard? The 50k I am doing they are changing up the course, probably a good thing going point to point from two out and backs, but it puts the hard part at the end now. I still struggle at sweet water park where I am training, but I have been doing it. Many times I want to throw in the towel but I keep going, I am guessing slower but keep going.
 
@croach am curious too, what made it so hard? The 50k I am doing they are changing up the course, probably a good thing going point to point from two out and backs, but it puts the hard part at the end now. I still struggle at sweet water park where I am training, but I have been doing it. Many times I want to throw in the towel but I keep going, I am guessing slower but keep going.

I wasn’t in proper form to run the race. Simple as that and it wasn’t a major surprise. I trained hard through the summer for an early September marathon. After that I lost the desire for much distance running. So basically I was lazy and out of shape for that distance. Last year I ran it in about 4:30, this year I think it was 5:40 so you can see the result of said laziness. :)

You’ll get through it. There’s no shame in walking or slowing down if that’s what gets it done. I’d rather do a point to point than looping the same course twice. I think mentally it’s nice to not have to repeat what you’ve already done. Good luck with your training and your race!
 
I wasn’t in proper form to run the race. Simple as that and it wasn’t a major surprise. I trained hard through the summer for an early September marathon. After that I lost the desire for much distance running. So basically I was lazy and out of shape for that distance. Last year I ran it in about 4:30, this year I think it was 5:40 so you can see the result of said laziness. :)

You’ll get through it. There’s no shame in walking or slowing down if that’s what gets it done. I’d rather do a point to point than looping the same course twice. I think mentally it’s nice to not have to repeat what you’ve already done. Good luck with your training and your race!

Thanks croach, i appreciate the laziness. i am struggling with wanting to run fast since chicago. that is the good thing about the trail i am not trying to do it fast. As camaker said i am trying to finish in the time limit without dying or injuring myself. I am pretty sure after my race i will be in said lazy mode. it also makes me feel better that i am not the only one suffering from a little burn out.

@camaker, if you are not suffering the burn out then i say go for it on the 50 miler. If you are having fun then why not. I know my burn out will recover. it might have to do with this crappy weather we are having. I know i am in the south it is not that cold, but it has been cold, damp, and grey for 2 weeks now and i am over it. I will take cold and in the 20s if i can have a big bright beautiful sun in the sky.
 
ATTQOTD: Then....Believing in myself.

Now.......same thing.


ATTQOTD # 2- Checking course elevation and details is something I do BEFORE I sign up for the race. If it's a fun run with friends/family, I don't really worry about it.
If it's a goal race, the course profile sometimes plays a part in whether I sign up or look for another run.
 

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