The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[anricat]

I dislike the patronizing tone of those who may disagree with people's personal decisions about their health.

I haven't seen anything patronizing so maybe those were moderated/deleted (however, your comment reads a little passive aggressive, which I confess raises my hackles a bit). In fact, when someone else said that they were made to feel like people who chose not to get the vaccine were "stupid" I indicated that I personally don't believe they are, it's just that we humans, as a WHOLE, are really terrible at risk assessment and I think that's a lot of what we're seeing here. We have two risks: getting sick (and possibly dying) from Covid, and getting sick (and possibly dying) from a vaccine. Which of those two presents a riskier scenario based on available numbers/data?

For example, the Skyliner had a mishap yesterday and people are FREAKING OUT that they will never ride it, never have, etc. But if you think about it, the thing runs nearly all day every day and has since opening (a couple years ago, right?) and has had, what, maybe two mishaps. So think of the millions of unload/reload and successful runs and then we have 2 issues. What's the risk there? It's super minimal. The bus is probably less safe, honestly, and yet, many don't want to ride because of a perception that it's "unsafe" due to these mishaps.

While I wish the vaccines were a case of personal choice (like riding the Skyliner is), regrettably, with vaccines, it's not like that. We really need a HUGE amount of people to get the vaccine in order to stop this. We need the herd. In order to help those who, for reasons wholly unrelated to personal choice, actually want the vaccine and can't get it (my friend who is a cancer patient) or get vaccines and they don't seem to work (my friend's daughter who, despite getting vaccinated for various things, never develops an immune response and still comes down with those illnesses such as the time she got chicken pox).

I feel very passionate about ending the pandemic and getting back to life as usual (especially cruising) and so I'm trying to help those who are on the fence see that while, yes, it can be a little scary to put something in their body that may seem, on the outset, like it's risky, but really, it's the least of the two risks. So to answer the question I posed in my first paragraph, the answer, by an overwhelming margin, is that the risk of getting sick and possibly dying from Covid is far and away greater. (As is the risk of long term complications/ongoing illness.)

 

[hrhdhd]

I haven't seen anything patronizing so maybe those were moderated/deleted (however, your comment reads a little passive aggressive, which I confess raises my hackles a bit). In fact, when someone else said that they were made to feel like people who chose not to get the vaccine were "stupid" I indicated that I personally don't believe they are, it's just that we humans, as a WHOLE, are really terrible at risk assessment and I think that's a lot of what we're seeing here. We have two risks: getting sick (and possibly dying) from Covid, and getting sick (and possibly dying) from a vaccine. Which of those two presents a riskier scenario based on available numbers/data?

For example, the Skyliner had a mishap yesterday and people are FREAKING OUT that they will never ride it, never have, etc. But if you think about it, the thing runs nearly all day every day and has since opening (a couple years ago, right?) and has had, what, maybe two mishaps. So think of the millions of unload/reload and successful runs and then we have 2 issues. What's the risk there? It's super minimal. The bus is probably less safe, honestly, and yet, many don't want to ride because of a perception that it's "unsafe" due to these mishaps.

While I wish the vaccines were a case of personal choice (like riding the Skyliner is), regrettably, with vaccines, it's not like that. We really need a HUGE amount of people to get the vaccine in order to stop this. We need the herd. In order to help those who, for reasons wholly unrelated to personal choice, actually want the vaccine and can't get it (my friend who is a cancer patient) or get vaccines and they don't seem to work (my friend's daughter who, despite getting vaccinated for various things, never develops an immune response and still comes down with those illnesses such as the time she got chicken pox).

I feel very passionate about ending the pandemic and getting back to life as usual (especially cruising) and so I'm trying to help those who are on the fence see that while, yes, it can be a little scary to put something in their body that may seem, on the outset, like it's risky, but really, it's the least of the two risks. So to answer the question I posed in my first paragraph, the answer, by an overwhelming margin, is that the risk of getting sick and possibly dying from Covid is far and away greater. (As is the risk of long term complications/ongoing illness.)

Stating I dislike something isn't passive-aggressive. If you prefer, I abhor people who assume they can assess risk for others.

I am happy you have come to your own risk assessment satisfaction level, and others will do the same.

 

[tink2424]

Wow, where to start?

• "Didn't exist six months ago": The first Moderna trail began over a year ago
• "We don't know how effective it is": The trial results state clearly how effective each vaccine is
• "We don't know how long they last": true. That's impossible to know at this point until they gather more data.
• "Why would a drug company need immunity from litigation if their vaccine is 100% safe?": First off, no one has ever claimed the vaccines are 100% safe. There are minuscule chances of adverse reactions with any vaccine. The reason the litigation protections exist is because the anti-vaccine movement so overwhelmed pharmaceutical companies with frivolous lawsuits back in the '80s that they were all going to stop producing vaccines completely because they were being overwhelmed financially trying to defend lawsuits. The litigation protection was put in place to save millions of lives by keeping them producing vaccines.

Really? Do you have a source for this? As everything I have read says they started at the end of July??

 

[Katiebird]

Really? Do you have a source for this? As everything I have read says they started at the end of July??

Moderna’s first batch of vaccine to be used in trials was finished on February 7, 2020.

The first participant in the Phase I/II trial was dosed on March 16, 2020.

https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-work-potential-vaccine-against-covid-19
Pfizer started dosing humans in its Phase I/II trials in April 2020 in Germany, and in May 2020 in the US.

 

[bcwife76]

Why is the vaccine rollout so bad in your country? You have 1\10 the population of the US. Anyone over the age of 16 that wants one can get one in most states.

Because Canada does not have domestic production for vaccines at the moment. So we are at the mercy of the orders we have placed from other vaccine-producing countries.

 

[cgolf]

I haven't seen anything patronizing so maybe those were moderated/deleted (however, your comment reads a little passive aggressive, which I confess raises my hackles a bit). In fact, when someone else said that they were made to feel like people who chose not to get the vaccine were "stupid" I indicated that I personally don't believe they are, it's just that we humans, as a WHOLE, are really terrible at risk assessment and I think that's a lot of what we're seeing here. We have two risks: getting sick (and possibly dying) from Covid, and getting sick (and possibly dying) from a vaccine. Which of those two presents a riskier scenario based on available numbers/data?

For example, the Skyliner had a mishap yesterday and people are FREAKING OUT that they will never ride it, never have, etc. But if you think about it, the thing runs nearly all day every day and has since opening (a couple years ago, right?) and has had, what, maybe two mishaps. So think of the millions of unload/reload and successful runs and then we have 2 issues. What's the risk there? It's super minimal. The bus is probably less safe, honestly, and yet, many don't want to ride because of a perception that it's "unsafe" due to these mishaps.

While I wish the vaccines were a case of personal choice (like riding the Skyliner is), regrettably, with vaccines, it's not like that. We really need a HUGE amount of people to get the vaccine in order to stop this. We need the herd. In order to help those who, for reasons wholly unrelated to personal choice, actually want the vaccine and can't get it (my friend who is a cancer patient) or get vaccines and they don't seem to work (my friend's daughter who, despite getting vaccinated for various things, never develops an immune response and still comes down with those illnesses such as the time she got chicken pox).

I feel very passionate about ending the pandemic and getting back to life as usual (especially cruising) and so I'm trying to help those who are on the fence see that while, yes, it can be a little scary to put something in their body that may seem, on the outset, like it's risky, but really, it's the least of the two risks. So to answer the question I posed in my first paragraph, the answer, by an overwhelming margin, is that the risk of getting sick and possibly dying from Covid is far and away greater. (As is the risk of long term complications/ongoing illness.)

Stating I dislike something isn't passive-aggressive. If you prefer, I abhor people who assume they can assess risk for others.

I am happy you have come to your own risk assessment satisfaction level, and others will do the same.

The difficult thing here, is the risk isn't just personal risk, it is population risk due to the need of getting to herd immunity worldwide to help stop this from spreading, big picture risk. I got it to both protect me and help the push to herd immunity to help slow the mutations. I know many will only look at the personal risks and I can't fault anyone for that.

There are some vaccines that are pretty much mandatory for say kids to go to school for example. As I have stated a couple of times here I really hope that people get the vaccine to get us to herd immunity, but I stop short of telling someone to do it if they are hesitant. Once the vaccines get FDA approved, it will be interesting to see if they push harder to get more people vaccinated. Most on the board live in countries where this is a choice and we get to make the yes/no decision which is a really good thing.

 

[mevelandry]

Why is the vaccine rollout so bad in your country? You have 1\10 the population of the US. Anyone over the age of 16 that wants one can get one in most states.

Pfizer and Moderna (and J&J) had a hard time sending us the promised vaccines they were supposed to send us since the beginning of the vaccination process. To this day, Moderna still struggles to meet the terms of the contract. Pfizer has been able to compensate a little bit for the delays lately and promised more doses until the end of June, and more in July. With AstraZeneca being available to anyone who is willing to get it, things have started going a little bit faster ...

But to this day, outside of AZ (open to 45+), vaccination is not open to the general public under the age of 60, unless they have severe medical conditions or unless they work with a vulnerable "clientele".

I don't think we will receive any J&J until the end of this month. We have not received a single one yet.

Due to the shortage of doses, the delay between the two shots is still 16 weeks. The amount of Canadians who have received their 2nd dose is currently at 0,5% if I am not mistaken.

 

[bcwife76]

Pfizer and Moderna (and J&J) had a hard time sending us the promised vaccines they were supposed to send us since the beginning of the vaccination process. To this day, Moderna still struggles to meet the terms of the contract. Pfizer has been able to compensate a little bit for the delays lately and promised more doses until the end of June, and more in July. With AstraZeneca being available to anyone who is willing to get it, things have started going a little bit faster ...

But to this day, outside of AZ (open to 45+), vaccination is not open to the general public under the age of 60, unless they have severe medical conditions or unless they work with a vulnerable "clientele".

I don't think we will receive any J&J until the end of this month. We have not received a single one yet.

Due to the shortage of doses, the delay between the two shots is still 16 weeks. The amount of Canadians who have received their 2nd dose is currently at 0,5% if I am not mistaken.

As of last night, 27.1% have received one dose and 2.6% are fully vaccinated. Sigh. Dh and I are going for our first AZ shot on Sunday at Costco...that is, IF the supply does not run out. In BC the only health authorities to still have supply of AZ are here in the lower mainland and we are expected to be through all doses by sometime next week.

 

[mevelandry]

As of last night, 27.1% have received one dose and 2.6% are fully vaccinated. Sigh. Dh and I are going for our first AZ shot on Sunday at Costco...that is, IF the supply does not run out. In BC the only health authorities to still have supply of AZ are here in the lower mainland and we are expected to be through all doses by sometime next week.

2,6%?!? I have missed that data. Thank you!

(Still bad but better than I thought it was.)

I hope you can get your shots!

Is AZ available to all in BC or just 40+? (Here in Quebec it's currently at 45+)

 

[tidefan]

Because Canada does not have domestic production for vaccines at the moment. So we are at the mercy of the orders we have placed from other vaccine-producing countries.

Not to get on a sidebar here, but a lot of that has to do with how Canada deals with the Pharmaceutical industry.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987787702/behind-the-relatively-slow-vaccine-rollout-in-canada

If you don't want to read the whole thing, this is the interesting snippet:

This is a longstanding issue. For decades, we've been debating this about how much drug production do we need in our country. We're right beside this giant of the U.S., which produces most of the drugs we use. Our pharma companies tend to be branch plants, just sort of offices of the larger companies. So there's a lot of history to this that explains why we don't have vaccine production. Canada also has strict regulation of drug prices, so our drugs are much, much cheaper than in the U.S. And pharma companies don't really like that, so they don't really invest in the country. So there's all kinds of factors underlying this.

A lot of people here in the US all want Canada's pricing structure, but, that can come at a cost. Thomas Sowell has a famous quote that "There are no solutions, just trade-offs". Say what you want about the US and our individualistic nature to make the pandemic worse, but our logistical, manufacturing, and entrepreneurial nature have been big strengths in the vaccine rollout.

Not saying one system or the other is better or worse, but that there are trade-off's in any system.

Now, if I were the US, maybe I'd negotiate with Canada for some vaccine shipments in turn for some lower cost drugs and reopening of ports???

 

[cgolf]

Not to get on a sidebar here, but a lot of that has to do with how Canada deals with the Pharmaceutical industry.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987787702/behind-the-relatively-slow-vaccine-rollout-in-canada

If you don't want to read the whole thing, this is the interesting snippet:



A lot of people here in the US all want Canada's pricing structure, but, that can come at a cost. Thomas Sowell has a famous quote that "There are no solutions, just trade-offs". Say what you want about the US and our individualistic nature to make the pandemic worse, but our logistical, manufacturing, and entrepreneurial nature have been big strengths in the vaccine rollout.

Not saying one system or the other is better or worse, but that there are trade-off's in any system.

Now, if I were the US, maybe I'd negotiate with Canada for some vaccine shipments in turn for some lower cost drugs and reopening of ports???

Drug prices are a can of worms. R&D and trial for candidate drugs is very expensive. Also factoring in the small percentage of drugs that make it though trials drives the cost up even more. Sadly all this cost, including making up for the lost money on failures is why mostly medicines for more common issues people deal with and the lesser known conditions aren't having drugs made specifically made for them.

 

[bcwife76]

2,6%?!? I have missed that data. Thank you!

(Still bad but better than I thought it was.)

I hope you can get your shots!

Is AZ available to all in BC or just 40+? (Here in Quebec it's currently at 45+)

It opened to 40+ here on Monday night (Tuesday morning?) And I just read that NACI now recommends dropping the age even further to 30+. Wonder which provinces will follow suit?? BC is nearly out of supply so there is no point in dropping the age here until we get more deliveries. Sunday morning can't come soon enough for us

 

[DCLMP]

Really? Do you have a source for this? As everything I have read says they started at the end of July??

When cruising was paused mid-March last year how many people thought we would have a vaccine 9 months later? I'm guessing nobody. As I recall people across all social media platforms were adamant it would take years to develop a vaccine. Now we're not allowed to question how fast these vaccines were developed? It's all so odd.

 

[mevelandry]

It opened to 40+ here on Monday night (Tuesday morning?) And I just read that NACI now recommends dropping the age even further to 30+. Wonder which provinces will follow suit?? BC is nearly out of supply so there is no point in dropping the age here until we get more deliveries. Sunday morning can't come soon enough for us

And they have just announced that J&J will deliver his first order (300 000 vaccines) next week!

I hope Quebec will authorize 30+ plus very soon I don't know when but I believe they will do it.

Hopefully you guys get more doses of AZ soon.

 

[mevelandry]

When cruising was paused mid-March last year how many people thought we would have a vaccine 9 months later? I'm guessing nobody. As I recall people across all social media platforms were adamant it would take years to develop a vaccine. Now we're not allowed to question how fast these vaccines were developed? It's all so odd.

I believe this question was answered pretty clearly on this thread (earlier) if anyone has links...

 

[mello]

Russia's is seriously named "Sputnik?"

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Russia's is seriously named "Sputnik?"

Why has Russia named the vaccine Sputnik?
Kirill Dmitriev, head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund, hailed Russia’s vaccine development as a historic "Sputnik moment".

As the first country to approve a vaccine for COVID-19, the development is being likened to Russia’s historic achievement with Sputnik 1’s launch in 1957.

It has also been announced the vaccine will be marketed under the name 'Sputnik V' on foreign markets.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ng-what-is-Sputnik-Russia-coronavirus-vaccine

 

[cgolf]

When cruising was paused mid-March last year how many people thought we would have a vaccine 9 months later? I'm guessing nobody. As I recall people across all social media platforms were adamant it would take years to develop a vaccine. Now we're not allowed to question how fast these vaccines were developed? It's all so odd.

I had lots of questions, and found some answers online. MIT had someone talk about the Moderna vaccine, I think the video is on youtube. I also did some research into the mRNA vaccines as well. I found enough information to satisfy myself it was safe to take. There are some answers out there, but as I said earlier in the thread, there is a risk of side effects, just like a lot of other medications we commonly take. Will everyone research it the way I did, probably not. Some of the research applies to the work I do, so I was in one sense paid to do it Do I have some concerns, you bet, time will tell if I made the right choice. One thing I don't do is use the media for my research.

 

[DCLMP]

I had lots of questions, and found some answers online. MIT had someone talk about the Moderna vaccine, I think the video is on youtube. I also did some research into the mRNA vaccines as well. I found enough information to satisfy myself it was safe to take. There are some answers out there, but as I said earlier in the thread, there is a risk of side effects, just like a lot of other medications we commonly take. Will everyone research it the way I did, probably not. Some of the research applies to the work I do, so I was in one sense paid to do it Do I have some concerns, you bet, time will tell if I made the right choice. One thing I don't do is use the media for my research.

I’ve had Covid and I won’t be getting the vaccine unless I need it for the 11 night Baltic cruise next Summer. By that time we should have more answers than questions about the vaccine. I do not anticipate cruises out of Florida requiring them. The president of Carnival has stated that they don’t think should have to require anything different then any other industry.

Last week I spent 4 hours on a plane with a 185 people shoulder to shoulder. I spent 7 days in theme parks with thousands of people. I spent 3 hours at the pool everyday with hundreds of unmasked, vaccine status unknown fellow Disney lovers. I rode busses with a couple dozen people in close proximity. Then theres the airport. They are packed with zero social distancing. I did all of this with no vaccine requirement. I agree with the president of Carnival there should not be a different standard for cruise lines.

I know some people won’t cruise if vaccines aren’t required and some people won’t cruise if they are. I think the majority will be fine either way. It will be interesting to see how cruiselines proceed.

 

[Intr3pid]

No one is saying you shouldn’t get the vaccine.They are just tired of you telling them to get it.

Nope, we are just calling out the phony reasons.