Thousand flock to Florida Beaches

[Farro]

This is why we need neighborhood clinics and telemedicine...much less expensive and easier to treat earlier rather than later. And yes, I'm aware there is mistrust amongst some. This is where community leaders need to step up.

Easy access is also essential. Many lack reliable transportation and must depend on others. This requires missed days from work, etc...it's a hassle and places another financial burden on the families. Patients are more likely to be seen and/or follow up if "appointment" time and location are reasonably accessible.

It not just this disease. The comorbidities are greatly affecting outcomes...and it's not just COVID-19 that killing them.

Exactly!!! We need to start focusing on treating the comorbidities and root causes rather than just waiting on a vaccine.

 

[Farro]

One of the things I've been doing during this experience is taking my teen son out for driving lessons. It's been nice with the limited traffic, and we've been all over our city in the past few weeks. Just anecdotally, there is apparently less regard for social distancing in the lower income communities. I have no idea if this is due to larger households being out together, a lack of transportation and food access, a lack of exposure to media notifications, a mistrust of the government, or something else. Again, this is just my limited observation from some drives around the city.

All of the above.

It's such a huge issue of this disease.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

One of the things I've been doing during this experience is taking my teen son out for driving lessons. It's been nice with the limited traffic, and we've been all over our city in the past few weeks. Just anecdotally, there is apparently less regard for social distancing in the lower income communities. I have no idea if this is due to larger households being out together, a lack of transportation and food access, a lack of exposure to media notifications, a mistrust of the government, or something else. Again, this is just my limited observation from some drives around the city.

a lot of these neighborhoods are projects, apartments, public housing and row homes. You’re already on top of each other. Bodegas are tiny Too so when you go grab food everyone is crammed together. The mistrust for the government is huge too.

 

[dish rag]

One of the things I've been doing during this experience is taking my teen son out for driving lessons. It's been nice with the limited traffic, and we've been all over our city in the past few weeks. Just anecdotally, there is apparently less regard for social distancing in the lower income communities. I have no idea if this is due to larger households being out together, a lack of transportation and food access, a lack of exposure to media notifications, a mistrust of the government, or something else. Again, this is just my limited observation from some drives around the city.

Drug abuse, murders, sexually transmitted disease, fatherless homes, drop out rates, crime in general are the statistical norm for these areas, there is no reason to think they care about social distancing.

 

[JimMIA]

And then work on the socioeconomic issues that are facing minorities and low income households in our country who are among the largest death population of Covid.

This is something that is going to really require some serious research when this is all over -- and research by actual scientists, not by advocates for any point of view.

There are a lot of anecdotal things we can point to which support the possibility these neighborhoods are more harshly affected -- Detroit, Washington, DC being two examples. And as a retired cop/EMT who has worked extensively in low-income minority communities, I can see some reasons why there could be higher incidence rates there due to comorbidities, low income, and multi-generational households.

But when I look at my own city, which I know very well and where I can see infection levels by zip code, I just don't see what I expected to see.

What I see here is much higher infection in lower middle-class working neighborhoods -- most of which are heavily Hispanic here in Miami. To give just one example, Hialeah (almost 100% Hispanic working class city) has an infection rate three times that of Opa Locka (a heavily African-American low-income area) which is immediately adjacent to Hialeah.

Like the low-income areas, I can see reasons why the infection rates would be higher in Hispanic working class neighborhoods, especially multi-generational households. But even if they don't live together, the bonds are so tight you just can't keep these families apart. Family gatherings are one of the cores of their culture -- they're a daily and weekly occurrence, not just birthdays and holidays.

The other high area I see is Little Haiti, which has an infection rate almost exactly double that of traditional African-American communities immediately adjacent to it. Again, there are some unique things about Little Haiti which would contribute to higher infection rates.

Infection rates in the classic ghetto areas are among our lowest, not highest.

Needless to say, the millennial areas and the very wealthy areas are the lowest.

But that's just me looking at Miami, which is probably not a typical American city.

When this is over, we need some serious unbiased study into whether, and which, socioeconomic factors actually do play as much of a role as we think. And then figure out why, of course, and try to come up with some solutions for whatever problems we uncover.

 

[Searc]

Did you consider that it may simply be due to having more time to peruse those sites?

LOL Nope. I have the same amount of time I did before the world stopped to peruse twitter, facebook and the Dis.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Also black and Hispanic workers are less able to work from home. They do a lot of service jobs that are essential. So they are getting exposed.

I went to my local produce place Sunday. The place was pretty full. All of the workers are Mexican. They can’t social distance.

 

[Farro]

This is something that is going to really require some serious research when this is all over -- and research by actual scientists, not by advocates for any point of view.

There are a lot of anecdotal things we can point to which support the possibility these neighborhoods are more harshly affected -- Detroit, Washington, DC being two examples. And as a retired cop/EMT who has worked extensively in low-income minority communities, I can see some reasons why there could be higher incidence rates there due to comorbidities, low income, and multi-generational households.

But when I look at my own city, which I know very well and where I can see infection levels by zip code, I just don't see what I expected to see.

What I see here is much higher infection in lower middle-class working neighborhoods -- most of which are heavily Hispanic here in Miami. To give just one example, Hialeah (almost 100% Hispanic working class city) has an infection rate three times that of Opa Locka (a heavily African-American low-income area) which is immediately adjacent to Hialeah.

Like the low-income areas, I can see reasons why the infection rates would be higher in Hispanic working class neighborhoods, especially multi-generational households. But even if they don't live together, the bonds are so tight you just can't keep these families apart. Family gatherings are one of the cores of their culture -- they're a daily and weekly occurrence, not just birthdays and holidays.

The other high area I see is Little Haiti, which has an infection rate almost exactly double that of traditional African-American communities immediately adjacent to it. Again, there are some unique things about Little Haiti which would contribute to higher infection rates.

Infection rates in the classic ghetto areas are among our lowest, not highest.

Needless to say, the millennial areas and the very wealthy areas are the lowest.

But that's just me looking at Miami, which is probably not a typical American city.

When this is over, we need some serious unbiased study into whether, and which, socioeconomic factors actually do play as much of a role as we think. And then figure out why, of course, and try to come up with some solutions for whatever problems we uncover.

Thanks for insight, I don't know much about Miami!

To the bolded - they do play a large role. African American have a higher incidence of HTN, DM, kidney disease, heart disease - all of which are big risk factors for death from Covid.
60% of deaths due to Covid in Chicago are African-American!!! That's horrific. It has to be assumed that the socioeconomic issues plaguing their community is an important factor.

Whites are 14% and Hispanics are 16% of deaths in comparison.

 

[ThistleMae]

What has boggled my mind since the start is the polarity of opinions. You have the social distancing warriors who are all for arresting and locking people up for not wearing a mask when the take a walk around the block, or taking a stroll on an otherwise empty beach. Contrast that with the groups of people who are now flaunting the rules and purposely gathering in crowds to protest the restrictions. BOTH are wrong, both are causing far more problems than they are purporting to solve. How did we get HERE?

I know right....so polorized. I flip between MSNBC and Fox news to hear from both sides. I'm staying right in the middle. Be cautious, and venture out to places where I can maintain social distancing. I don't live near a beach. I'm in the forest...LOL. But....many isolated places to venture out into to picnic or hike. If you're familiar with things in your own area, so many outdoor activities to get involved with. We are getting push back here in NH regarding camping. I'm a seasonal camper and so far we have the go, with restrictions. Towns people are against it and have filed a petition to keep campgrounds closed.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Same but an entire city and a good portion of the state rely economically on Vegas being open. It seems like just a playground but over 200,000 people are out of work. They’re real people with real families to take care of.

Agreed - but they are all getting paid right now - many of them more than they would have made going to work. At some point this will also be a problem for fully employed people who are laid off, but it is not yet.

Right now this is more a problem for people who cannot work and cannot collect unemployment than any group other than those sick or dying.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Most people have not received their extra $600. I know one person that received it but for one week. Most people I know haven’t even received their first unemployment checks.

 

[Heather07438]

We thrive on conventions. People stopped coming before the shut down. Kitchen staff was down to a skeleton crew in most places and restaurants closing early. Some casinos shut down before Sisolak gave the order. It seems like a noble act but they were bleeding money. It’s cheaper to close down vs stay open with no business. People will come, sure, but not enough to sustain the cost of being open. At least not yet.

I think this is an aspect being over looked by the people saying "well, we can't do this forever because it'll wreck the economy." The economy gets hit either way.

What makes the most sense is to try opening things as safely as we can manage. Then more people will have confidence to re-engage with society and get the dollars turning again. Open shops don't equate sales. Safer open shops and work places stand a better chance.

 

[wenrob]

Agreed - but they are all getting paid right now - many of them more than they would have made going to work. At some point this will also be a problem for fully employed people who are laid off, but it is not yet.

Right now this is more a problem for people who cannot work and cannot collect unemployment than any group other than those sick or dying.

Honestly I don’t know how unemployment is working for people who are on the extra boards. Real full timers are a rare thing and it takes quite some time to get there. They do this to keep from having to pay benefits full time. Ironically Wynn properties are one of the most guilty of this. My DD did an internship there and I forget what she said the exact number was but well over 50% of their staff were “extras.” As of right now my best friend (a chef) who is a full time employee with seniority has yet to receive any UI. It’s there and people qualify for it but it’s not simple or easy to get.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Agreed - but they are all getting paid right now - many of them more than they would have made going to work. At some point this will also be a problem for fully employed people who are laid off, but it is not yet.

Right now this is more a problem for people who cannot work and cannot collect unemployment than any group other than those sick or dying.

Well, except they may not have a job to return to afterwards. There is that too.

 

[Farro]

Drug abuse, murders, sexually transmitted disease, fatherless homes, drop out rates, crime in general are the statistical norm for these areas, there is no reason to think they care about social distancing.

Which is why it is so important to start addressing these socioeconomic issues. Covid is proving that.
Would you really care about anything if you felt that no one cared about you? You were forgotten by the government, society?

Or will people not care as much when they see it's minorities with the highest death-rate? I wonder.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Well, except they may not have a job to return to afterwards. There is that too.

Yes, but the reality is that most of those die have already been cast.

 

[wenrob]

I think this is an aspect being over looked by the people saying "well, we can't do this forever because it'll wreck the economy." The economy gets hit either way.

What makes the most sense is to try opening things as safely as we can manage. Then more people will have confidence to re-engage with society and get the dollars turning again. Open shops don't equate sales. Safer open shops and work places stand a better chance.

This is what I keep saying. It’s not like we open and “they will come.” The economy was going to nose dive whether the world stayed open or not. We’re going to have to open the world back up but we need to dip our toes not canon ball in.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Which is why it is so important to start addressing these socioeconomic issues. Covid is proving that.
Would you really care about anything if you felt that no one cared about you? You were forgotten by the government, society?

Or will people not care as much when they see it's minorities with the highest death-rate? I wonder.

Well you brought up part of the problem but that DIScussion is not allowed here.

 

[Farro]

Well you brought up part of the problem but that DIScussion is not allowed here.

Why, because it can get political? It doesn't have to. But kind makes all this worry about what we should do kind of pointless if we can't discuss some of the biggest issues that need to be addressed.

But noted and I will refrain!

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks for insight, I don't know much about Miami!

To the bolded - they do play a large role. African American have a higher incidence of HTN, DM, kidney disease, heart disease - all of which are big risk factors for death from Covid.

Right, that's why I was expecting higher numbers in Miami.

60% of deaths due to Covid in Chicago are African-American!!! That's horrific. It has to be assumed that the socioeconomic issues plaguing their community is an important factor.

Whites are 14% and Hispanics are 16% of deaths in comparison.

Agree. I've seen demographic estimates for Chicago of 30%-33% African-American population, so if they're 60% of the deaths, that's horrible.

The other thing is I was looking at confirmed cases, not deaths. Whatever the case incidence, I would expect a much higher mortality rate in minority communities because of the higher levels of a number of risk factors -- especially HTN, diabetes, and heart disease.