Train could pass though Disney World

[brewcrew]

More information (including preferred route): https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0201123-24b7inqvtbgixi77464ya6fkmu-story.html

As for the station location, couldn't they put it where the current Team Disney building is located?

 

[skeeter31]

More information (including preferred route): https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0201123-24b7inqvtbgixi77464ya6fkmu-story.html

As for the station location, couldn't they put it where the current Team Disney building is located?

They wouldn’t knock down the Team Disney building, but there is enough room in either the parking lot next to it and the gas station, or further down the road next to Typhoon Lagoon.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I could see taking a train to Disney, but I have a difficult time seeing this being convenient for getting rid of Magical Express, which was my fear.

Could you see family of 6 flying in from Europe for 1-2 weeks with bags and everything dragging their family from their plane to the train to Disney Springs, then tromping their bags and family to the bus stop where they then have to contend with the hoards of shoppers from Disney Springs also going back to their hotel.

I would find that miserable.

 

[skeeter31]

I could see taking a train to Disney, but I have a difficult time seeing this being convenient for getting rid of Magical Express, which was my fear.

Could you see family of 6 flying in from Europe for 1-2 weeks with bags and everything dragging their family from their plane to the train to Disney Springs, then tromping their bags and family to the bus stop where they then have to contend with the hoards of shoppers from Disney Springs also going back to their hotel.

I would find that miserable.

I think if Disney were to go this route, they wouldn’t have the family have their luggage on the train or on a Disney bus with them. They would probably utilize storage cars on the train and then box trucks to transport the luggage to the resorts.

Plus, as others have pointed out, the station won’t be IN Disney Springs, it will be near (probably across the road). And if Disney is going to use this to eventually replace ME, they would have dedicated buses and bus stops for the arriving guests from the train, not making them use the DS bus stops.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I think if Disney were to go this route, they wouldn’t have the family have their luggage on the train or on a Disney bus with them. They would probably utilize storage cars on the train and then box trucks to transport the luggage to the resorts.

Plus, as others have pointed out, the station won’t be IN Disney Springs, it will be near (probably across the road). And if Disney is going to use this to eventually replace ME, they would have dedicated buses and bus stops for the arriving guests from the train, not making them use the DS bus stops.

Yeah, I figured the baggage service would come back at some point, but it would still not be used 100% (you have carryon's and stuff and some people don't want to check bags). There would still be a lot of people's vacation stuff mixed in.

I did miss that it was not IN Disney Springs. That's BETTER. Still though, if they did this and got rid of the busses from MCO, that might push me over to full time paid transport. It just does not sound enjoyable to me to have to shovel my family through another transport step (Plane, to Train, to Bus) unless the Train part is closer to "monorail" in convenience; similar to the MCO shuttles, but just a little longer of a run.

 

[skeeter31]

Yeah, I figured the baggage service would come back at some point, but it would still not be used 100% (you have carryon's and stuff and some people don't want to check bags). There would still be a lot of people's vacation stuff mixed in.

I did miss that it was not IN Disney Springs. That's BETTER. Still though, if they did this and got rid of the busses from MCO, that might push me over to full time paid transport. It just does not sound enjoyable to me to have to shovel my family through another transport step (Plane, to Train, to Bus) unless the Train part is closer to "monorail" in convenience; similar to the MCO shuttles, but just a little longer of a run.

Yeah, the thing that keeps me from 100% thinking Disney will go the train route is they can’t control the amount and frequency of the trains. Being reliant on the tracks and probably only 1-2 trains going back and forth during the day could lead to long waits at the airport. Whereas with the buses they can add more routes if they see it’s filling up and can react in real time.

 

[ParrotBill]

I hope everyone realizes the track route would go nowhere near Universal now.

Realizing the station needs about 400 feet of platform, I still think there are few locations that can squeeze in a train station and have
- approach and departure track routes that have appropriate curve radius
- enough room for traffic pickup and drop off and connection to a road

The ideal open land I can find: The space south of US192, I-4 on one side, World Drive on the other. And that matches up to a FL417 route to I-4 quite well.

 

[tidefan]

I think if Disney were to go this route, they wouldn’t have the family have their luggage on the train or on a Disney bus with them. They would probably utilize storage cars on the train and then box trucks to transport the luggage to the resorts.

Plus, as others have pointed out, the station won’t be IN Disney Springs, it will be near (probably across the road). And if Disney is going to use this to eventually replace ME, they would have dedicated buses and bus stops for the arriving guests from the train, not making them use the DS bus stops.

Complete apples and oranges comparison... but... this is how it sort of works at Disneyland Paris. You transfer on to a bus at the TGV station that takes you to your hotel.

 

[Moliphino]

Complete apples and oranges comparison... but... this is how it sort of works at Disneyland Paris. You transfer on to a bus at the TGV station that takes you to your hotel.

Ehh, the train station at DLP is within walking distance to most of the hotels.

 

[Aprilshack]

Have they said how long it would take for the train to go from Orlando airport to Disney Springs? Would be handy for future trips to Disney when our last day is at Disney Springs & the day is cut shorter due to getting the magical express back to the airport.

 

[skeeter31]

Have they said how long it would take for the train to go from Orlando airport to Disney Springs? Would be handy for future trips to Disney when our last day is at Disney Springs & the day is cut shorter due to getting the magical express back to the airport.

No, not yet. We’re still years from this being a reality. The company is saying this could all be done by 2023-2024, but this company has been famous for underestimating their build times here in Florida.

 

[doconeill]

The rough distance following a 417 alignment, is only 15 miles. While the tracks are expected to be Class 7 level, with up to 125mph speeds, they aren't likely to use the high-speed trainsets that Brightline would be using (they currently only have a plan for 5 trainsets), but if they were running a "Magical Express" shuttle service they'd probably use commuter-level equipment that's more likely Class 4 and max out at 79mph. But assuming an electric locomotive or EMU setup with good acceleration, I'm going to guess an average of 50mph end to end, we're talking 18 minutes.

Now, obviously a train can handle much more than a bus, but that could mean that dwell times could be longer waiting for a train to arrive and depart after arriving. Plus the trains have to timeshare with the normal Brightline trains, so there will be times when they can't be on the track. AND if the Brightline trains are also stopping...I'm now thinking that it replacing ME is more unlikely as I type...

 

[tidefan]

The rough distance following a 417 alignment, is only 15 miles. While the tracks are expected to be Class 7 level, with up to 125mph speeds, they aren't likely to use the high-speed trainsets that Brightline would be using (they currently only have a plan for 5 trainsets), but if they were running a "Magical Express" shuttle service they'd probably use commuter-level equipment that's more likely Class 4 and max out at 79mph. But assuming an electric locomotive or EMU setup with good acceleration, I'm going to guess an average of 50mph end to end, we're talking 18 minutes.

Now, obviously a train can handle much more than a bus, but that could mean that dwell times could be longer waiting for a train to arrive and depart after arriving. Plus the trains have to timeshare with the normal Brightline trains, so there will be times when they can't be on the track. AND if the Brightline trains are also stopping...I'm now thinking that it replacing ME is more unlikely as I type...

I tend to think it will be an "Option B" to magical express...

 

[NotUrsula]

I mean while Brightline has been having issues, especially since COVID, the plan has always been to go from Miami to MCO with the next phase from MCO to Tampa. A stop at WDW was always under discussion, this is just a more concrete version of those plans.

I agree that a train just from MCO to WDW would never make sense, but if the train was already going in that direction on its way to Tampa, I see how it would make sense to add a stop at WDW. I could see a lot of people on the route from Miami to Tampa taking advantage of a train to WDW instead of driving, especially once WDW transportation is back up to full capacity.

My issue with this scenario is that I think that the only way that the West Coast leg will be profitable is if it terminates not in Tampa, but in St. Pete. The average tourist (and local resident) who wants to travel west from WDW is interested in reaching the Pinellas Beaches, and from TPA that's still a LONG Uber ride. (There has been a seasonal ferry for the past few years, but it never did run to the Beaches, only from downtown Tampa to downtown St. Pete.) My understanding is that the current rail ROW in the area runs west from Sulphur Springs through Oldsmar to Clearwater, then turns south toward downtown St. Pete, though the tracks on the last part have been removed and the ROW granted to the Pinellas Trail. It doesn't go anywhere near TPA.

If tourism is Brightline's primary market, that western leg just will not make money without service to both TPA and the Beaches (and I'm pretty sure that Port Tampa Bay is probably a desirable option as well, though IMO their best market is probably running an express shuttle to the Villages instead.)

 

[hertamaniac]

If tourism is Brightline's primary market, that western leg just will not make money without service to both TPA and the Beaches (and I'm pretty sure that Port Tampa Bay is probably a desirable option as well, though IMO their best market is probably running an express shuttle to the Villages instead.)

This is the part that I have been shaking my head at for years. I live fairly close to The Villages and feel confident there would be a massive audience of tourism travel if they could somehow create fast transport to/from there.

 

[sachilles]

Would it make any more sense to have it be more oriented towards tourists using the Miami airport?
International folks fly to Miami, have a partial miami beach vacation, then train up to WDW for the remainder. Basically giving WDW another international airport to use. MCO is already pretty busy.

I just don't think it would move frequently from MCO to disney springs to make it worth while.

The advantages I see for MCO is to out compete Uber and taxi traffic. DME will take you to the resorts but not to the parks. Having a direct connection to the springs on your arrival day(If your bags will go direct to resort) would be a nice thing. As I know many folks won't burn a park ticket on arrival day but will go to the springs. Of course this could be done by DME just as easy if it were desired. The other possibility is saving bus traffic and cost. Unsure how many round trips a day the average DME bus takes, but if you could offload 50% of your DME at springs train station and have the dme bus pick up at the springs to complete the journey as normal, that save a lot of miles on bus traffic and labor. Even if that means they still have to go to MCO half of the time.

Anyways I think the miami area is the bigger attraction for the train. MCO is just sort of gravy if they can make it happen.

 

[NotUrsula]

Would it make any more sense to have it be more oriented towards tourists using the Miami airport?
International folks fly to Miami, have a partial miami beach vacation, then train up to WDW for the remainder. Basically giving WDW another international airport to use. MCO is already pretty busy.

I just don't think it would move frequently from MCO to disney springs to make it worth while.

[snip]

Anyways I think the Miami area is the bigger attraction for the train. MCO is just sort of gravy if they can make it happen.

I think that the primary market driver is access to beaches and cruise ports, and not just the ones on the West Coast of Florida. (Brightline will travel up the East coast first and turn inland from Cocoa Beach. There also has been some talk of adding a station in Melbourne, which would benefit the Vero Beach Resort as well.)

WDW has always had a weak spot with the fly-in folks who want to split their trips between the theme parks and the beach, particularly, as you point out, with the international tourists. It is a real handicap that there presently is not an inexpensive, reliable way to get from WDW to either shore without a car. Then you can add in all of the young people (and retirees!) in the Orlando market who would love to be able to spend a day or evening at the beach and not have to stay sober to drive back.

Since the opening of WDW there has been a sort of internal struggle in the Florida tourism industry that pits marketing the theme parks against marketing the beaches when it comes to tourists who fly in. A reliable train would finally make it possible to market a la carte split trips that take advantage of both destination types (and the arrival/departure airport) without requiring the tourist to deal with renting and driving a car.

 

[bookwormde]

The rough distance following a 417 alignment, is only 15 miles. While the tracks are expected to be Class 7 level, with up to 125mph speeds, they aren't likely to use the high-speed trainsets that Brightline would be using (they currently only have a plan for 5 trainsets), but if they were running a "Magical Express" shuttle service they'd probably use commuter-level equipment that's more likely Class 4 and max out at 79mph. But assuming an electric locomotive or EMU setup with good acceleration, I'm going to guess an average of 50mph end to end, we're talking 18 minutes.

Now, obviously a train can handle much more than a bus, but that could mean that dwell times could be longer waiting for a train to arrive and depart after arriving. Plus the trains have to timeshare with the normal Brightline trains, so there will be times when they can't be on the track. AND if the Brightline trains are also stopping...I'm now thinking that it replacing ME is more unlikely as I type...

I agree if these are dedicated trains for the route, 80mph class would be the most practical with about a 15 minute travel time and 40 minute round trip cycle time. I would expect 1/2 the number of cars as the longer haul scheduled trains. this would allow for a much smaller stations and less time between trains. 4 smaller trains could cut the wait time to a maximum of 10 minutes and an average wait and travel time to about 20 minutes which would be far better than ME. even if they only had 2 trains it would still be less than 35 minutes.

If you were lucky on Disney bus side I could see deplaning to hotel in not much over an hour, but 90 minutes is a more likely average. Of course that is about the fastest I have ever made it on ME.

Anyone ever seen or calculated the daily ridership ME?

To make this work efficiently WDW would have to move luggage by truck since passengers having to load and unload their luggage would greatly extend the train cycle time.

As a side note one of the big advantages to elevated light rail is that it primarily uses existing road right off ways with minimal new pieces needed

 

[Mikey15]

I hope everyone realizes the track route would go nowhere near Universal now.

Realizing the station needs about 400 feet of platform, I still think there are few locations that can squeeze in a train station and have
- approach and departure track routes that have appropriate curve radius
- enough room for traffic pickup and drop off and connection to a road

The ideal open land I can find: The space south of US192, I-4 on one side, World Drive on the other. And that matches up to a FL417 route to I-4 quite well.

I hadn't realized until the Orlando Sentinel article above that the route is truly still up in the air. Still lobbying going on to link this as a complement to SunRail and potentially take the northern 528 route rather than 417.

Reading between the lines though someone's going to have to make it worth Brightline (Virgin)'s while to do this. It's cheaper for them to go 417, though there's potential NIMBY opposition along that route. Brightline negotiating with Disney first almost feels like a "hey Universal / OCCC, we're going to leave you out unless you come in on funding the northern route."

 

[ParrotBill]

The silly thing is there is also a play to link to SunRail at a more southerly point, such as the Tupperware station. There must be some other reason someone is pitching for a 528 based route. It would be harder to manage - more land to be bought and condemned to turn the line around from the south end of the airport to the northwest corner and align to 528. Even harder to locate a station along that line - go look at open land and just try to imagine a station squeezed in up there!