Virginia Beach: 11 people killed in mass shooting, police say

[CdnCarrie]

First off, to say something so insulting to a poster makes anything else you have to do totally not worth listening to.

Second, I didn’t say anything about Canada. I clearly said Europe.

And here is the thing, you want to portray America as so horrible. And yet there hasn’t been this mass exodus to Canada. Interesting.

Actually my province was having quite the problem with refugees walking over the North Dakota border.

Again not as vast as the USA due to geographical location.
Not sure why you think there isn’t a mass exodus to other countries. Where did you get that idea?

https://amp.insider.com/asylum-seekers-fleeing-us-for-canada-champlain-ny-2019-1

 

[luvsJack]

Actually my province was having quite the problem with refugees walking over the North Dakota border.

Again not as vast as the USA due to geographical location.
Not sure why you think there isn’t a mass exodus to other countries. Where did you get that idea?

Seems to be some comprehension issues here.

I originally said that the numbers of illegal immigrants coming into the US are much larger than that of most other countries. I then compared the size of the US to that of European countires didn’t mention Canada except in another post to a pp that said she would tell the inmigrants to go on to Canada.

I said to you that there isn’t a mass exodus of Americans into Canada. And one state does not a mass exodus make. But you have had refugees from other countries leaving the US and going to Canada.

 

[hereyago]

Sadly, this tragedy will soon be lost due to another shooting.

I remember Luby's shooting years ago was so shocking, then Columbine. And yet it keeps happening.

I don't care what the motives in murdering people, obviously missing empathy. The murderer (not saying his name) may have been disgruntled, um everyone has that one day or another but you don't light it up with bullets.


If it isn't guns it is cars ramming people or bombs.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

That’s a very unfortunate position to be in. Hopefully, more people will see things your way and changes will come. Don’t let this just be another part of daily life. Continue to be outraged.

I wish I could take your advice, but at some point I have to pay attention to my own mental well being, and I just can't dwell on or wring my hands over something I really can't control. I started tuning it out after Newton and the first graders, when I was on the verge of getting ready to send my own first child to school. I did not look at a single news report on that one. I just can't. Still when I see something on that particular incident I immediately turn it off.

I guess that's why I have the "ignore it, this is just the new normal" message to contribute. No, I don't want that to be the case, but that's where I'm at with all this mess. Honestly this board is one of the few places I even see discussion on this topic anymore (all day long no one IRL has mentioned this event at all, and I doubt anyone I know will), and I'm not sure why I even chime in at all since it's a topic I generally prefer to ignore. I guess maybe I will refrain from now on. How about songs with the word "love" in them instead? And, I know the one poster suggested that conversations change minds, but I just don't see that. Have the discussions held after all of these events changed anyone's mind here on these boards? I doubt it. If anything I feel like people just dig in further to their established position.

 

[neverlandsky]

For starters, the mass media needs to drastically change how they portray mass shooting suspect(s). They need to stop highly sensationalizing these types of events for entertainment value & ratings increase.

 

[kimblebee]

For starters, the mass media needs to drastically change how they portray mass shooting suspect(s). They need to stop highly sensationalizing these types of events for entertainment value & ratings increase.

A lot of stations have stopped saying the suspects name after the first time it’s reported.

I wish I could take your advice, but at some point I have to pay attention to my own mental well being, and I just can't dwell on or wring my hands over something I really can't control. I started tuning it out after Newton and the first graders, when I was on the verge of getting ready to send my own first child to school. I did not look at a single news report on that one. I just can't. Still when I see something on that particular incident I immediately turn it off.

I guess that's why I have the "ignore it, this is just the new normal" message to contribute. No, I don't want that to be the case, but that's where I'm at with all this mess. Honestly this board is one of the few places I even see discussion on this topic anymore (all day long no one IRL has mentioned this event at all, and I doubt anyone I know will), and I'm not sure why I even chime in at all since it's a topic I generally prefer to ignore. I guess maybe I will refrain from now on. How about songs with the word "love" in them instead? And, I know the one poster suggested that conversations change minds, but I just don't see that. Have the discussions held after all of these events changed anyone's mind here on these boards? I doubt it. If anything I feel like people just dig in further to their established position.

I’m sorry. I wish I had more to offer.

 

[Colleen27]

Unpopular opinion, but I do NOT believe it has anything to do with gun laws (this coming from a person that hates guns).

Why weren't there daily mass shootings years ago? My father talked about bringing in a new rifle to show one of his high school teachers. It just wasn't a big deal. Guns have always been readily available. ALWAYS. So why the sudden massacres?

I believe it is our society's crumbling mental health. I believe tip toeing around people that are mentally ill, making excuses for the mentally ill, and not properly helping the mentally ill has much to do with the daily gun murders.

Ask your teacher friends how many of their children have IEPs. Ask them how their students are allowed to lash out and suffer no consequences, after all...they are mentally ill. Excuses will be made and accepted. No real help. Just push them through with no ramifications for their behavior. This starts young.

Ask any teacher how many of their (young) students are on a controlled substance. You think the shootings are bad now? Just wait for the drugged up, phone addicted, daycare since 6 weeks old, off spring of burnt out parents, detached children of the next generation comes through. It's not going to be pretty.

Although, some adult nutjob is watching the news right now and planning on how they will be the next shooter. Someone right now is taking comfort in the thoughts of hurting others.

There's a lot of reasons, I think.

First, it is impossible to ignore the fact that the quantities, types and prices of firearms available to the public as a whole have changed immeasurably since the days of dad or granddad showing off his new hunting rifle at school. Yes, guns have always been a part of American culture but the part they play has changed. Not only are the weapons that can be purchased today much more efficient at killing (dear old dad wasn't bringing a handgun with a high capacity magazine and a suppressor to school back in the day!), they're also much less expensive when adjusted for inflation which makes them more prolific and a less significant purchase than they were a half-century ago. Your dad probably showed off that hunting rifle because he worked and saved for it and having it was a big deal; now a young adult with a minimum wage job can buy a semi-automatic handgun with a week's pay. And so the same economic forces that gave us more two-car families, more TVs, more computers, etc. have given us far more guns than at any time in our past.

But you do raise an interesting possibility in the idea that advances in educational methods and treatment of learning/behavior disorders could be a double-edged sword. On one hand, we no longer have students going through what my grandfather and FIL experienced as children, with teachers who thought they could discipline (physically) the lefthandedness and dyslexia out of them respectively. But on the other hand, I have seen special needs become a sort of shield that protects some students (and parents) from the consequences of truly bad, disruptive and sometimes even abusive or potentially dangerous behavior. And to the extend that is the case, there is certainly potential for negative consequences.

I think a broader lack of connectedness is a bigger issue than most people realize. We've sorted ourselves into our little bubbles and empathy for those outside of our bubbles has become rather unfashionable. Our social/emotional network has frayed at the same time our economic security (not just in the welfare sense but also in terms of job security, confidence that hard work pays, etc.) has eroded, and that's created a lot of disconnected and desperate people. And when that is the case, and those people have fairly easy access to military-grade killing machines, some are bound to take their anger and frustration out in the form of violence against others (while others take it out merely on themselves - suicide and overdose rates have risen right alongside mass shootings, though they tend to get fewer headlines).

But at the end of the day, we're not going to put the genie back in the bottle. Involuntary warehousing will never again be the standard for how we deal with mental illness. Corporal punishment isn't going to make a comeback and replace IEPs or medication. Television, smartphones and other personal electronic entertainment isn't going away. The question is how we cope with those changes, and that's where questions about restricting access to weapons come in.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Let me guess. Avocados?
[/QUOTESadly, yes.

 

[portocall]

I wish I could say that this kinda of news was shocking to me. I've grown numb to it. After the Vegas shooting, I asked my then high schooler what he thought about and he just shrugged and said he didn't see what all the fuss was about. Another day, another shooting. It won't be long until the next one. It was then that I realized he was born after Columbine. This IS normal to him the same way hijacked planes seemed normal to me when I was growing up. My youngest has been taught to run, hide, and fight for his entire schooling life. We don't seem to want to make any changes so to protect myself I lost my will to become outraged anymore. I will tune in if we ever reach the point where we get serious about changing things but until then I will notice and be aware of my surroundings and how to escape. It's the only bit of control I have in this crazy world we made for ourselves.

 

[luvsJack]

This was written in 2018 but

“According to this analysis, assaults by firearm kill about 13,000 people in the US each year, and this translates to a roughly 1-in-315 lifetime chance of death from gun violence. The risk of dying in a mass shooting is about 35 times lower than that, with a 1-in-11,125 lifetime chance of death.”

While each of these tragedies are horrible and we need solutions, it’s not so commonplace that anyone should logically just shrug their shoulders.

Maybe it’s where I live, I don’t know, but it’s not something I worry about. It’s not something our kids worry about or even think about.

One side wants to argue one solution and the other side wants to argue another. Neither one is going to solve it in of itself. And honestly most people aren’t asking for all or nothing. Most gun owners (well, all the ones that I have listened to in irl conversation) want their guns but they want more responsible ownership. They want more regulations on who can get guns. And they, just like everyone else, want the stop of illegal guns smuggled in. But they also want to get to the problem as to why this keeps happening.

It is true that there are schools that as close as 25 years ago or less, almost every vehicle in the parking lot had a gun in it. You could park at any courthouse or bank building or post office and there would be trucks with guns in a rack in the back window. And no mass shootings or very, very few. Are there more guns now? Yes. Are there different types? Yes. But those guns had just as much ability to kill as any other gun and yet, it didn’t happen. Because PEOPLE have changed. And the why to that is where we will find the answers.

 

[Nancyg56]

I wish I could take your advice, but at some point I have to pay attention to my own mental well being, and I just can't dwell on or wring my hands over something I really can't control. I started tuning it out after Newton and the first graders, when I was on the verge of getting ready to send my own first child to school. I did not look at a single news report on that one. I just can't. Still when I see something on that particular incident I immediately turn it off.

I guess that's why I have the "ignore it, this is just the new normal" message to contribute. No, I don't want that to be the case, but that's where I'm at with all this mess. Honestly this board is one of the few places I even see discussion on this topic anymore (all day long no one IRL has mentioned this event at all, and I doubt anyone I know will), and I'm not sure why I even chime in at all since it's a topic I generally prefer to ignore. I guess maybe I will refrain from now on. How about songs with the word "love" in them instead? And, I know the one poster suggested that conversations change minds, but I just don't see that. Have the discussions held after all of these events changed anyone's mind here on these boards? I doubt it. If anything I feel like people just dig in further to their established position.

All I can say is that I am sorry. I am the poster who suggest conversations, and they can make a difference. I life in a rural community and there are guns here., Hunting is a part of life, as is the mindset that personal property needs to be protected. If I discussed gun control 3 years ago the pushback I get from my friends and neighbors alsome felt hysical Today? Not at all. You see we can evolve our positions and we can take those idea to the next level. I believe almost every politely decision is financial. The pol wants a job, and want money to get that job. Discuss how to make that job more difficult to secure if that politician votes NRA. Share who you wil vote for, and not who youwill not vote for. Be open about companies that you support more actively because they stopped selling specific kinds of munitions. I talk about where I spend my money, not who I avoid, , and I share who will get my vote and why, not who I would rather chew glass and die before I cast a vote for him or her. I firmly believe it is how you discuss issues that can make change.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Are there more guns now? Yes. Are there different types? Yes. But those guns had just as much ability to kill as any other gun and yet, it didn’t happen. Because PEOPLE have changed. And the why to that is where we will find the answers.

Perfectly said.

 

[longboard55]

Why have not people in other countries changed.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Why have not people in other countries changed.

I don't think it's so much that other countries haven't changed, but that America grew differently in the first place. Here's one example from an article entitled Personal Space and American Individualism by Ava Rosenbaum:

"The United States has one of the most individualistic cultures in the world. Americans are more likely to prioritize themselves over a group and they value independence and autonomy. This societal ethos can be seen in how Americans relate to each other–Americans do not tend to touch each other during interpersonal interactions. Americans maintain a greater distance of personal space between themselves and others, compared to more touch-oriented, collectivistic cultures like in Latin American or Mediterranean countries. As such, there is less physical contact and touch between friends, family, and strangers. Studies have revealed that touch increases social bonding and feelings of goodwill towards others. Touch, as a social-psychological phenomenon, is fundamentally linked to a culture’s level of individualism. Americans’ individualistic culture makes non-sexual, interpersonal touch less frequent. However, the lack of touch–the distant, American way of interacting–also contributes to its individualistic culture, in a self-reinforcing cycle."

I think it explains just one way (probably of many) that people here think differently, and see individuals before seeing groups. It certainly speaks to the lack of connection a couple of posters have mentioned. And I think that lack of connection not only makes the victims seem less "real" to the shooters, but also contributes to their problems growing unchecked in the first place. Everyday life is so full nowadays - so busy and face-paced and rapidly-changing, with unending options all the time, that it easily becomes overwhelming. Maybe the increased sense of connection in other places mitigates that a bit?

(I'm not saying there isn't a good side to individualism, too. - But like most things, there are benefits and drawbacks, and the healthy balance is probably somewhere in between.)

 

[luvsJack]

Why have not people in other countries changed.

I can’t answer that.

But the fact is that gun ownership has been around as long as the US has. And carrying one was a whole lot easier in the past. No one thought twice about seeing a truck with a gun rack with 2 or 3 guns in it. Or with a gun leaned up against the seat during hunting season. And yet very few carrying those guns ever thought of pulling one out and using it against another human being. Fights still happened in schools. And no one considered getting their gun.

You can’t say that people haven’t changed. Guns were a tool then and are a tool now.

I am not saying there shouldn’t be some changes but I think we are kidding ourselves to believe there is one single solution.

 

[longboard55]

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem

 

[ronandannette]

Why have not people in other countries changed.

It's an evocative question. Here in Canada, regardless of general perceptions, firearms are quite easily available to anyone who wants them and illegal guns (such as assault weapons) are certainly obtainable, illegally by people who plan illegal activities (get where I'm going?). We have, at a superficial glance, extremely similar cultural influences and practices as you do in the US, with approximately one-tenth of the population. Why then, do mass shooting incidents not occur here at a steady 1/10 of the rate they do in the US? Canada has recorded 24 mass shooting incidents since 1885 - yes, 1885. (**This excludes incidents of domestic violence and gang wars resulting in multiple gun deaths as well as all mass murders not perpetrated with guns.)

 

[luvsJack]

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem

It’s not a matter of admitting there is a problem. It’s a matter of the single sightedness that too many have to the problem.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Why have not people in other countries changed.

We are a weird bunch in the USA.

We're different.

I love my country. Heck, I lived as an expat in a Scandinavian country (don't want to give too much detail) and loved it. But I missed the United States so much.

But we have issues. Big issues.

Our population is large. We have so many people, and some of those people are treated very differently by the color of their skin. We are still having growing pains. Many of our parents were alive when a black person couldn't drink out of the same fountain.

We have a drug epidemic that is staggering. Rich kids are included in this epidemic. The deaths from this are unbelievable. It knows no boundaries.

We have children as young as six years old placed on controlled substances due to perceived ADHD and other mental illnesses. Parents are pushed to the limits and for some, it's just easier to drug a child.

We have very fragmented families. Some women have children by 3+ men and those men are nowhere to be found.

We have school teachers that are paid pennies and expected to deal with the drugged up kids, in a classroom of 35.

We have policemen who are pushed to the brink with gangs, drug addicts, theives, etc. And sometimes they do shoot and kill the wrong person. Our police officers are also paid very little.

We are a bit chaotic here.

I love my country, but some things have been made acceptable that absolutely should not be.

We are different from other countries in good ways and not so good ways. But we certainly are different.

 

[hereyago]

I will be wearing blue tomorrow in honor of the victims.
VB schools had requested that the students wear blue and it took off through the 757(our area code).