WDW's Biggest Problem

[Captain Crook]

Was at the World last weekend and did some things we don't normally do & in doing so found what I believe to be the most pressing issue for WDW at this time.

Downtown Disney. The traffic & parking situation is abominable. The congestion & gridlock is thicker than the LA smog, forget about fnding parking...

DD, PI, WS has obviously become a very popular and profitable arm of the WDW Resort area, but this bottleneck cannot continue to grow (and the road construction now under way can be no more than a band-aid in the big picture). It (the grid-lock) is contrary to the Disney vacation ideal (Walt would genuinely be pissed) and yet its success warrants its inclusion in long term plans and major funding.

My thoughts: Build a large parking complex near Epcot where a new (relatively small) monorial line can connect with the Epcot line and serve DD. At this point all Parking at DD could become a very expensive and profitable valet type parking (to finance the monorail line?). This would open up the roads again for WDW busses & reasonable trhough traffic.

Any thoughts on why this wouldn't work, shouldn't be done or other ideas to address this very real, very large problem?

 

[Another Voice]

Oh, you mean the plan that Eisner killed for being too expensive?

Remember Captain sir, sucking on gas fumes simply means higher profits for Disney. Since everything from slashed park hours to canceling early entry to carnival games is justified because “it’s a business”, I am shocked that you don’t gleefully accept the minor inconvenience of traffic to your Disney trip.

Perhaps you just don’t feel the magic the way the rest of us do.


(or maybe you’re just starting to see things our way)

 

[DisneyKidds]

What is the all time record for the number of pages a thread has achieved................??

Now, now, AV - just because we are in Car#1 doesn't mean we don't see, address, and try and change 'problems' .

 

[Captain Crook]

Oh Voice, you just can't come to agree with anything I say gracefully, can you?...

I have very often pointed out my problems with Disney and I will reiterate my opinion on Mike...I don't care, I just don't see horns sticking out of his head and I do appreciate many of the things he's given us and I've seen no one suitable offered up as a replacement (being a small piece of a garbage corporation doesn't seem like the best answer).

Now for your post, if you really want to play nice, then do tell of the plan Mike nixed. I don't know of it, but I do know I'll be avoiding DD like the plague in the future...

Lastly let me state that I don't like congestion, pollution & I don't like the reduced hours (have I ever said I did?). I'm not a Disney apologist and to infer so really reminds me why I haven't been posting much lately...

 

[Eeyore1954]

As a fan of DD, I am in agreement with Capt. Crook on the parking situation. Add in the road construction around DD, and getting into/out of the area can be more than a "challenge." My DW and I were there in May and on a rainy Sunday morning we had a difficult time finding a parking space -- that was after negotiating our way through the road construction and blocked entrances.

I agree that it is time for Disney to do something about the lack of parking & access to DD. As for a new parking lot, if you (Eisner) build it, they will come! (With apologies to Field of Dreams!)

 

[All Aboard]

We really don't ever go to Downtown Disney. We go to WDW to get things we can't get at home. We have a Rain Forest Cafe, a Bongos, Virgin Mega Stores and plenty of McDonalds down here in Miami.

Now I'll do what will inevitably happen on this thread anyhow...

WDW's biggest problem (to me) is chipping away at the operating hours. My biggest gripe has been the removal of EE (which is cutting hours), but the general deterioration of hours is most concerning to me.

As most of you know, we go to WDW all throughout the year. But, our "big" trip each year is the third week of January when we stay 8 nights. I don't have info from our 1999 trip, but I do from the last three. Many point back to the mid-1990's as the beginning of the erosion of hours. More recently they've had an impact on us.

Here's a comparison of MK hours for that week we travel each year:

Fri/Sat Close-Weeknite Close-Number Nite Parades-Number Fireworks-EE?.

2000-10pm-8pm-3-7-Yes
2001- 9pm-7pm-2-7-Yes
2002-7:30pm-6:30pm-2-2-No

I sure hope this trend does not continue.

 

[raidermatt]

Captain- I agree, there is a certain amount of stereotyping that is heaped on us Car #1'ers. It seems that no matter what we say, we are classified as Disney apologists with our heads in the clouds. It has lead me to bow out of a few threads...

To be fair, though, the 3's sometimes get s'typed as well...

As for your original point, I can't really comment, as we don't use a car in WDW. While I don't particularly love riding busses in WDW, it beats renting a car and going through the types of issues you describe.

You are definitely on the right track with what I'd LIKE to see, namely an overall expansion of Monorail and boat routes. Even if one takes a cynical view of management's motiviations, it would still make sense to make it as easy as possible to get to DD and buy plush.

 

[YoHo]

I've seen 20 plus page threads.

Personally, I can't imagine Driving to DTD anyway. but I'm on the young side for this group and may party a bit harder

 

[Captain Crook]

Greg, I agree that DD isn't really important to me personally, but in the big picture of the WDW Resort, DD has become a boondoggle, getting very close to being unfixable in its present state (think daily commute on us 1).

Knowing that big money must be being made here it seems that Disney has to address this problem post haste to keep the Resort experience up to snuff by alleviating traffic snafus and heading off what is bound to be an increase in negatve feelings about DD & Disney transportation.

I know it is more popular to talk about the parks and the things we all personally like best, but DD must be attracting a lot of people (and generating a lot of plush sales - thanks Matt) to create this kind of traffic. It seems that this must be put to the top of the 'fix it' list.

I was wondering if there was another vacant area with a relativey straight shot to DD that could be used for 'shuttles' (like the parks use) that wouldn't be more than a mile or so away. My ability to recall the Resort geography is failing me though...I know others have strongly eschewed the parking garage concept (as employed by US) but if built proplerly (out of sight of the traditional Disney area) with complete ease of access, would this not be a strong & efficient idea?

 

[Galahad]

Will the road work they are doing at DTD alleviate the problems, Captain, or are they larger than that?

BTW, we were at MK on Sunday and attendance was disturbingly light. Meeting all of the inlaws to the world this week for a rerunion. Should get some interesting opinions by 17 people that have never been there before......

 

[Captain Crook]

Galahad, the road work will undoubtedly add some flexability (extra lanes, turn lanes) but sitll if the place gets any more popular the problems will just magnify. I mean the biggest problem is that there is just not enough parking spaces or access roads. Add to this the fact that Disney busses must run wth priority movement whenever possible & that many, many guests use the adjacent road for getting to the Parks from the DD hotels and Lake Buena Vista, that I just can't see a solution to the current operation.

 

[Bstanley]

A telling point for me about DD was during last November's visit. The entire week - both at Universal and at WDW - the parks were virtually deserted, hotels were running half full, etc.

BUT

DD was very busy every time we went. In fact the only real line we had to wait in the entire trip was to pay for our purchases at the Disney store.

Traffic in and out was busy, and the parking lots were practically full. I remember thinking that this place must be a genuine Zoo when it's busy...

 

[Another Voice]

Wow, I go away for a few minutes and suddenly this thing explodes.

I just find it interesting that the cancellation of the transportation expansion was a strictly business decision. Simple cost vs. benefits, return on capital, let’s find cheaper solutions kind of call. Disney is a business, so we’re often told, and they have every right to make a profit. Gotta please Wall Street or else, you know?

That’s the exact same answer that gets tossed around when people have problems with the hours that they pay for are slashed, when attractions that they pay to see are closed, when prices go up with additional benefit, and all the other “problems” that routinely are dismissed because “I didn’t use Early Entry so who cares”.

I find it amusing that the Captain announces that waiting at a traffic light is a PROBLEM when the guest who just paid $50 to enjoy less of the Magic Kingdom is dismissed as nothing but WHINING.

Plans to expand the Epcot beam down to the Village/Hotel Plaza were on the books starting 1981. The new management found other uses for the money. Busses were cheaper and more flexible. Roads can be expanded faster. The needs and desires of the guests were subordinated to the economics. So now you sit in traffic.

Isn’t that the exact same cause and effect argument we’ve been having these many months? Both transportation and operation issues all go back to the same source.

 

[Figmentrocks]

A few quick observations...

"Gotta please Wall Street or else, you know?"

AV, that continues to be the most absurd notion in business, as you knoq. My father works for a (nameless ) company and is high-up in their corporate ladder, so I always like to hear about the warped and sick world of big business. Everytime this nameless company does what Wall Street wants, they still complain. The same goes for Disney. Every time Disney tries to appease these out-of-touch, egomaniacs who work on the exchange, all that Disney gets out of it is them complaining about something else with the company. It's a real shame, as business decisions are more than ever based upon what a bunch of out-of-touch, mostly arrogant people, who for practical purposes, engage in a game of legalized gambling for a living.

After the cost cuts, quality declines, and job cuts, it's nice to see that it puts Disney basically a bit under twenty-two dollars a share.


As for the issue with the traffic, it's a real mess down there at DD, the Captain is certainly correct. Well, when you have the new Hasbro toy store taking a chunk out of the parking lot, that adds a lot to the problem.

Hey, AV, I thought that Disney is into Environmentality? Buses don't seem to fit with that plan... Oh, they only care about the numbers. How the naive forget. Businesses used to care about profit and quality, now they only care about the kill.

 

[Captain Crook]

I find it amusing that the Captain announces that waiting at a traffic light is a problem when the guest who just paid $50 bucks to enjoy less of the Magic Kingdom is simply dismissed as nothing but WHINING.

Wow...I said all that? Kinda weird because I'm none to pleased with the hour situation myself...But if I said it then I said it...

As to the DD traffic, whats your beef Voice? Can't we discuss specific issues around here without always retreating to the same ole same ole? I've actually seen very little of DD traffic discussed and thought it'd be an interesting topic & looked forward to reading responses...

Lastly, for those of you who do care, it isn't just a single traffic light thats problematic it's the area from the first light at Disney Westside all the way to Lake Buena Vista (probably 2 miles all lined with parking lots that never have any spaces available).

 

[Bstanley]

INCOMING!!!

 

[Another Voice]

Again, it just struck me as amusing that “WDW’s Biggest Problem” is traffic in a shopping mall’s parking lot. After all the long and numerous posts about hours, closed attractions, and general cutbacks – the approach to this topic just seemed to be both self centered and overly naïve. Sorry Captain, but how could you of all people think that The Company is going to drop really big bucks on a “nice to have” transportation system when butter shaped like Mickey Mouse is a cost savings?

Talking about solutions, yes believe it or not there really is a very thick Master Plan for the entire property. It lays out all the locations for potential resorts, parks, recreation, backstage and support areas. It helps the company plan out things like sewers and roads – and monorails. Planning is a wonderful thing, even way back in the 1970s.

No one wants a history lesson, but transportation has always been a concern at WDW and the monorail system had always been intended to be a major component of it. The concept of WDW Transport was to allow the guests to park their cars and use WDW transport exclusively during their stay.

That goal has changed because the property has grown faster than its infrastructure. The transportation system now is geared to move WDW guests between their resorts & the parks during the day and between the resorts & Downtown at night. Day guests have been locked out of the system except for park hopping busses.

There are more people moving by car now, but the old road network plan has been scrapped for expense as well. The original Master Plan called for highways without intersections or traffic lights. Look at all the elaborate ramps and flyovers at Epcot. But those cost money and were scrapped. Instead of a road like World Drive for the property’s “backbone”, Buena Vista Drive became the “main road” for the entire southern part of the property. No flyovers, no connections, just a long string of stop lights.

A couple years ago there was a plan to solve all of this, very much along the lines of the Captain’s plan. WDW wanted it, Attractions wanted it – but Corporate had other plans for the money. Guests sitting in cars are not a big concern. And if Mr. Scoop would care to plot the growth of the park’s profit margin over the last several years we can all see that it’s not a case that we’re paying the same for more (it’s very much the opposite).

Ultimately if you long for a monorail to whisk to Pleasure Island, turn on your television and enjoy ABC Family instead.

 

[airlarry!]

Woah, woah, woah. Good Captain, let me be the first to extend an olive branch to you. I sense a disquieting metaphorphisis, almost as if Car Three is stretching...

You are correct to point out the problems with DD. In fact, we had a similar topic here way back about the change from the Village to DD, and I don't think we ever finished nor could we have seen the incredible growth in traffic.

I will say that on my last trip in 2001, we were just killed during Mardi Gras going around that area.

M. AV has a beautiful point here. Even though it was not the Capt who suggested it, some have suggested that changes made on the campus are 'business decisions' and do not affect them personally, so it is not a lessening in the magic. This is a good lesson and an excellent illustration by the Good Captain that yes, Magic is subjective, but if everyone of us has a strong disagreement with a policy that has been incorporated or a 'business decision' that has been made, maybe our collective loss isn't so subjective at all.

Maybe it is an objective sign that the facade is crumbling a bit.

And as to s-typing? Mon Capitaine, you are displeased but it won't stop you from making a return visit, or planning your next trip with anticipation, nor reading (and posting) on these boards with fervor (I hope). This is what it means to be a true Car 3'er. One who fears that while it is still fun to go to WDW now, perhaps, just perhaps, the changes you have seen are going to take a big effect down the road.

To be a Car 3'er is not to be a Chicken Little, crying that the sky is falling. I believe the cry is that "I am afraid the sky will fall if...." and you fill in the blanks with "DD is a gridlock" or "they don't fix the hole in Fantasyland" or "the dragon logo in AK is misleading" or "park hours continue to be cannibalized."

Back to your dilemma. What would Walt do if he was cryogenically unfrozen today? He would click his tongue and dust off the plans for the monorail extension. Build a TTC that connects all four parks (Epcot area sounds nice) Tie it to the DD -- thereby getting resort guests one bus ride and then a sweet monorail ride over to big spending areas...and safe passage back to their hotels after it is all over. And tell his shareholders that the $$ it takes to do this will be recouped with full hotels, four (or more) full parks, more spending per capita by guests who can save money on rental cars and spend them on plush and Kungalooshes instead, and get that repeat business back on track.

 

[space42]

darn.. things seem to be going all crazy latey..

And you know, actually sitting at a red light in congested traffic is WORSE for me than having to leave a park at 7pm instead of 9pm.

nono.. you have to leave at 9pm instead of 12 or 1am.. but you can come back in and ride a few rides for $12 if you want..

 

[Captain Crook]

My main point was that traffic & congestion is far worse than I had imagined. Again, we don't do DD often, but the grid-lock is very shortly going to start affecting other areas, namely the bus transportation which will begin impacting (further) the quality or experience of the valued Resort guest.

So while Corporate may have dropped the ball (big time) on this it is time for them to reconsider before more damage is done. This situaton will only get worse and before long you'll get a decline in Resort gest visits (wo go to Cirque, DQuest, dinner & buy the plush stuff).

Lastly, while this may not seem as notewothy as reduced hours, elimination of EE or the prolifertion of cheap Park attractions, it seem to me that the infrastructure must be properly maintained in order to service any of theother goals the Company may have. If, as you say, AV, the Corporate Brass nixed a plan that would have properly progressed the infrastucture of transportation, then I believe this ranks up there with any of the very serious Park issues we discuss here on the DIS.

I hope I didn't sound selfish or self-serving.