WDW's Biggest Problem

[barreloflaughs]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Admission to DD? In addition to the admission to PI?

Ugh.

Double ugh....not that it would put any additional burden on my wallet.

This area of WDW was, at one time, quite charming and relaxing....nowadays its about as charming as my local shopping mall and forget about relaxation.

Go ahead and let 'em charge admission. I still won't go there!

carl
barrel of laughs

There's one born every minute....several actually.

 

[Figmentrocks]

" Charge for people to park at the mall- I know in Stamford,CT that is done without harming the traffic at the mall."

Stamford is also a very well to do community and charging for parking isn't much of an issue for most people there.

At The Pointe in Orlando, the fact that they charge for parking (exceptions of validation from going to the Muvico Theater and dinner at a sit-down restaurant & X/S), and it kills a lot of their local business. It never became the busy place that it was envisioned to be and one can assume that the parking charge most certainly has an impact. Universal went to free parking after 6 PM to get more locals, and quite simply, most nights, especially the weekend, are made up of local teens, mostly on the West Side. Start charging for parking, the loss of business will far surpass the revenue of parking. There are too many choices in Orlando, so the local shopper will take his or her business elsewhere.

Personally, I find it to be appalling to be charged for parking when it pertains to shopping. So, I'm supposed to pay to then spend money in a store, that's absurd. In a high density, extremely highly valued land in particular cities, it's understandable. Not on a self-owned, nearly 50 square mile property with endless parcels of land.

 

[hopemax]

Gosh, go away for one day, and look what breaks loose. Senseless rambles...

I spent the day in Seattle, rode the monorail. The monorail expansion talks seem to be progressing. $1.4 Billion for a 14 mile expansion (so the next time I here someone say $1 million per mile is too expensive, I'm going to smack someone). A couple years ago voters passed an initiative to drop auto registration fees to $30, to pay for the monorail expansion King County would just bring the old fee scale back.

But in general, Seattle and Washington seem to have adopted the same transporation plan as WDW. "It's too expensive to do anything but if we ignore it, it will go away."

 

[Another Voice]

I believe the rumors are not talking about a fee to enter Downtown Disney.

Instead the “parking fee” would be charged at the boundaries of the property and collected as you enter irregardless of your destination. Additional fees may or may not apply to specific theme parks, other gates or the resorts. So going to shopping at Downtown, swimming at Blizzard Beach or going to lunch at the Yacht Club will all cost "for parking".

Second issue – I think that a monorail “themes in” as well to the Animal Kingdom Lodge just as well as diesel belching busses do. There has to be a practical limit to themeing unless you want to remove all the bathrooms from the Wilderness Lodge and run down five floors to use the outhouse.

Monorails or a rail system are very efficient for the traffic patterns at WDW. All other forms actually aren’t even close. In the beginning, transportation was never considered a “perk” for just the people dumping big bucks. It makes much more sense for the beams to run the high population, high density places like the All Stars and Caribbean Beach.

There was a proposal to boat line throughout the southern portion of the property. The line from the Disney/MGM Studios to Epcot would have been extended through the World Showcase Lagoon to Downtown Disney (there was a side plan for an extension to the Caribbean Beach). Certainly a very scenic trip – but it would have taken an hour and not moved many people. Boats don’t work unless you’re on the Staten Island Ferry.

And Mr. Scoop – Michael Eisner himself took credit for designing the parking mountains at Disneyland. Isn’t that enough to make you feel warm and fuzzy about the concept?

 

[YoHo]

AV, I find it interesting that you say a Monorail is Ideal for the traffic patterns at Disney I have encountered both here and at other places resistance to the idea that a centralized transportation system would be efficent. Of course I shouldn't be surprised, we are after all a nation in love with the Automobile, it simply isn't in our nature as a nation to enjoy public transportation of that form.



As to a Parking fee to enter the property, I heartily approve of this actually.

I have in the past Voiced my opinion that Centralized parking and mass transit of some type would do wonders for both the general appearnce and feel of the property. forcing people to pay extra for the privelge of moving their car about would work within that. Thus you park at you're resort, or in central parking and let Disney do the rest.

Of course for this to be a good thing is predicated on the notion that Disney creates a Transportation setup that supports it. the Parking fees collected could pay for such a system. The down side is of course that this would not seem to be their goal here.

 

[space42]

Of course for this to be a good thing is predicated on the notion that Disney creates a Transportation setup that supports it. the Parking fees collected could pay for such a system. The down side is of course that this would not seem to be their goal here.

I'd gladly hand out a parking fee opon entering the property if it was to fund a "state of the art / magic" transportation system.

 

[raidermatt]

This is easy for me to say, since its possible I will never drive a car into or within WDW, but I'll say it anyway... I'm with Space and YoHo. If the funds (or at least a portion) are earmarked for Magical transportation improvements/enhancements, I say go for it.

Of course, we have a hard enough time getting tax dollars collected for a specific purpose to be used for that purpose...

 

[Captain Crook]

Back to something Scoop said...(And I may disagree with!) Why not a parking garage Scoop? Is it not possible to build one well for a specific purpose, hidden yet accessable in an otherwise heretofore underutilized area? Is the whole concept so totally distastfull that even an imagineer (would hate to call them garagineer) couldn't do it?

 

[YoHo]

Something that would avoid ruining Sightlines, but at the same time make you feel like you're in a tomb you'd be an underground Parking garage. Of course, if its at the Edge of the Property and you MUST use Disney Transport to get to the Parks, then the building anticipation level would still be there. Parking would be before the magic as it were.

 

[airlarry!]

For once, Sir Scoop, I heartily agree with you. That is something you and I can stipulate to....parking garages are not my idea of vacation pick-me-ups.

It would not take a rocket scientist to design and implement a traffic system that would consist of resort guests parking at their resorts and using magical mass trans to move between parks and shopping areas (if it is hard to get from resort to resort that is okay by me because that is not what a vacation is supposed to be) with large parking lots for the day guests at each park. Rip up the parking lot at DD and make that the TTC...

 

[Another Voice]

It is conventional wisdom that guest hate the separation of the Magic Kingdom from its parking lot, and that resort guests hated being dropped off at the TTC and then transferring to a monorail to get to the MK as well. You will have to do a lot of talking to Disney to convince them at any centralized parking structure that forces day guests to use another form of other transportation is a good idea.

Monorails (or any rail system) work best moving people between fixed, high density locations – say a resort stuffed full of people and an eager theme park. In fact there are few other places better suited since you always know where the people are, you know where they are going and you know when most of them will be traveling. It’s the opposite of the suburbia (where most people say bad things about rail) because that is a situation of low density housing commuting all over the place.

The biggest hold-up at WDW is not the need or the desire to fix the transportation; it’s the willingness to make the investment. The original monorails were put in because “it was the right thing to do” for both guest satisfaction and for WDW’s image. But in the profit-only mindset only a substantial return on investment will result in any progress. From a cynical point of view, you’ve bought the tickets; you’ve paid for the hotel room. It’s not cost Disney any money is you sit in traffic.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Another Voice
It is conventional wisdom that guest hate the separation of the Magic Kingdom from its parking lot

I found the separation one of the most Magical things about the place when we first went so many years ago ?1974? I loved the separation from the real world, the monorail stations and CM uniforms...I think the problem now is the inefficiency. Do guests hate this because WDW runs fewer monorails now than before, and that they spend more time getting back and forth than they feel necessary? Or was it always so slow getting back and forth... I don't remember...but I do hate the incredibly inconvenient transfer to/from the Epcot line...give me a break! Let me walk across a platform, for crying out loud, not down a long ramp and back up another...

Paul

 

[DisneyKidds]

Every camel has that straw, and a pay for play entrance fee to get on Disney property with a vehicle may just be mine. I hate to say it, but some on this board have gotten me to think that is actually possible. But before anyone starts getting excited for winning converts (Mr. Baron) or starts patting themselves on the back - I believe a lot of these such rumors are 'chicken little' 'sky is falling' poppycock.

I said 'may' be that straw because if they developed a super duper, next gen transportation system that would get me from VWL to GF for b'fast to MGM for the morning to VWL for a break to BC for dinner at Beaches & Cream to Epcot for the evening and back to VWL as quick or quicker than I can do it with my rental I'd be happier than a pig in ****. But I just don't see that happening.

I guess I will go on record against a parking garage. Too 'real world', and most likely Disney would put larger than life icons of Penzoil, Goodyear, NASCAR and the like on it and call it 'Revved Up Pop Stars of the Indy Infield Parking'. Shoo, shoo, get out of my head Car #3 thoughts. Where is that shrink when I need him?

 

[Planogirl]

No, for the love of all things good and not evil...somebody stop Planogirl before Plushler reads her post...Delete it Moderators, I implore you to Delete it!!!! Ahhhh.......

OK, calm down and let me remind you of something. This is Disney we're talking about here, the great innovators, the guys that built Epcot. When I said that they needed a parking garage like Universal I didn't mean one that LOOKED exactly like that one but one that FUNCTIONED like it. Whether it's underground or in another hidden part of the World or disguised in some really neat way, they need another place to put cars!

I detest the overcrowded ocean of cars in front of Downtown Disney right now. I dislike the idea of waiting in line to park, paying for parking and waiting for a shuttle of some kind to take me to a shopping and dining venue so that I can spend more money. And then repeating the process in reverse. I think that I've made it clear that I LOVE the Marketplace, I just can't stand the struggle to get there and then leave. I can't stand the thought of it possibly getting even worse. There just has to be a better way.

If there's a single imagineer left that Mike and company have overlooked, they ought to be able to come up with an aesthetically pleasing and economical solution that will work. And that is what I'd gladly pay for.

 

[Captain Crook]

Hey, for once Planogirl and I are on the same page...Or at least in the same chapter!

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> we are after all a nation in love with the Automobile...

Wrong! It is the government that is in love with the Automobile, witness the few alternatives that the government provides.

Currently the surface of the land at Downtown Disney is too crowded for expeditious movement of people (and supplies and freight and merchandise, etc.)

Therefore at Downtown Disney the time has come to provide some form of transportation above or below ground level, it does not have to be a monorail. Runing below ground will be difficult because the water table is high and the tunnel will have to be constantly pumped out. So that leaves some form of elevated transportation facility as the only way to fix the problem.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Funny that in Los Angeles, well over 50% of the surface of the land is devoted to transportation in some form or other (includes car dealerships and gas station) yet it is still ever so congested over there.

 

[montessori]

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."


I love it!