What would you do (renters)

[brunette8706]

Most states only have "wiretapping" laws on recording audio. Maybe peeping Tom laws on places where there's a reasonable expectation of privacy. However, I've heard of people who literally have cameras pointed at all of their neighbor's houses, and there's generally nothing illegal that about in most places.

Florida has a "video voyeurism" law. Security cameras in a place where there's no expectation of privacy are fine.

https://legalbeagle.com/6821458-video-taping-laws-florida.html

Good to know! Thank you!

 

[brunette8706]

We have a regular, not vacation, rental, but have something in our contract along the lines of, "Home owner or appointed representative can enter the property at any time that contract violations are suspected". Since we also make them list exactly who will be living there, if we suspect more, we have stopped and checked in on a similar situation. (And it would be easier with a rental, I would think.)

And I would also definitely add a deposit in the future, just to cover this type of thing.

Good luck!

Terri

Great ideas! Yes that is something we can definitely add to the contract. Thank you!!

You're definitely not breaking the law. The only law applies to places where there's a reasonable possibility that someone may be unclothed.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ute&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.145.html

Thank you so much!!

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I would give them a call right away and ask how many people are occupying the unit. If they say six, mention that you are checking because your outdoor security camera recorded 13 people entering the unit with luggage. See if they come clean at that point. Then let them know that, in accordance with the contract they signed, you will be billing them for the extra people. If they do damage to the unit, bill them for that too. Going forward, I would definitely recommend charging a refundable security deposit. In the contract, say the deposit will not be refunded if there is damage to the unit or if the number of occupants exceeds the agreed upon number.

My parents own a rental home in South Lake Tahoe. With two bedrooms, a sleeping loft and only one bathroom, they limit the occupancy to eight. There is a paved driveway next to the house which can only fit two cars. The instructions say that only two cars can be parked and there is absolutely no on-street parking. So a few years ago, I started talking to a mom at my kids' school about Tahoe. She said her family rented the same place every summer. They would take two other families and set up air mattresses all over the floor. She said they could get up to 16 people in the place and once they split up the rental fee, it was pretty cheap. So I told her I was very familiar with the city and asked where the place was located. She told me the street name. She also told me the name of the nice but clueless lady they rented from (my mom's first name is not very common). She said they were planning to add even more people next time they rented. I said, "Oh! You've been renting my parents' place!" Her face went kind of white. She didn't say much else. So I asked my mom if she had been renting to the woman and my mom said, "Yes, they go every summer." I told her about the crowds of people she's been stuffing in there. Needless to say, that lady stopped renting from my mom.

 

[SCmom3]

I agree with PP who says they might cause problems if you bring it up now. Since you have no way of going by to evict them, there isn't much you can do right now. After they leave, send the bill. Did they pay by check or card? In the future, you could require a cc hold for the security deposit.

 

[brunette8706]

I would give them a call right away and ask how many people are occupying the unit. If they say six, mention that you are checking because your outdoor security camera recorded 13 people entering the unit with luggage. See if they come clean at that point. Then let them know that, in accordance with the contract they signed, you will be billing them for the extra people. If they do damage to the unit, bill them for that too. Going forward, I would definitely recommend charging a refundable security deposit. In the contract, say the deposit will not be refunded if there is damage to the unit or if the number of occupants exceeds the agreed upon number.

My parents own a rental home in South Lake Tahoe. With two bedrooms, a sleeping loft and only one bathroom, they limit the occupancy to eight. There is a paved driveway next to the house which can only fit two cars. The instructions say that only two cars can be parked and there is absolutely no on-street parking. So a few years ago, I started talking to a mom at my kids' school about Tahoe. She said her family rented the same place every summer. They would take two other families and set up air mattresses all over the floor. She said they could get up to 16 people in the place and once they split up the rental fee, it was pretty cheap. So I told her I was very familiar with the city and asked where the place was located. She told me the street name. She also told me the name of the nice but clueless lady they rented from (my mom's first name is not very common). She said they were planning to add even more people next time they rented. I said, "Oh! You've been renting my parents' place!" Her face went kind of white. She didn't say much else. So I asked my mom if she had been renting to the woman and my mom said, "Yes, they go every summer." I told her about the crowds of people she's been stuffing in there. Needless to say, that lady stopped renting from my mom.

Thank you for the information and ideas! Wow!! That is some story! Glad she was caught red handed.

 

[brunette8706]

I agree with PP who says they might cause problems if you bring it up now. Since you have no way of going by to evict them, there isn't much you can do right now. After they leave, send the bill. Did they pay by check or card? In the future, you could require a cc hold for the security deposit.

HI! They paid by check, which was already cashed.

 

[bcla]

My parents own a rental home in South Lake Tahoe. With two bedrooms, a sleeping loft and only one bathroom, they limit the occupancy to eight. There is a paved driveway next to the house which can only fit two cars. The instructions say that only two cars can be parked and there is absolutely no on-street parking. So a few years ago, I started talking to a mom at my kids' school about Tahoe. She said her family rented the same place every summer. They would take two other families and set up air mattresses all over the floor. She said they could get up to 16 people in the place and once they split up the rental fee, it was pretty cheap. So I told her I was very familiar with the city and asked where the place was located. She told me the street name. She also told me the name of the nice but clueless lady they rented from (my mom's first name is not very common). She said they were planning to add even more people next time they rented. I said, "Oh! You've been renting my parents' place!" Her face went kind of white. She didn't say much else. So I asked my mom if she had been renting to the woman and my mom said, "Yes, they go every summer." I told her about the crowds of people she's been stuffing in there. Needless to say, that lady stopped renting from my mom.

SLT? I'm guessing you've heard that they absolutely lay down the hammer now.

The 3 violations in 24 months resulting in permanent revocation of a vacation home rental permit would be what would worry me the most. Also - a requirement for a bear box? I thought it was voluntary for full-time residents.

 

[Imzadi]

I would give them a call right away and ask how many people are occupying the unit. If they say six, mention that you are checking because your outdoor security camera recorded 13 people entering the unit with luggage. See if they come clean at that point. Then let them know that, in accordance with the contract they signed, you will be billing them for the extra people.

OP, How long has it been since they entered and you checked the front security camera footage?

I would also call and be careful about "accusing" them of anything. State it in such a way as, "I was just checking the outside security cameras to make sure you guys arrived safely and got inside okay. I noticed that several extra people arrived with your group. Will they be staying with you too? Or are they just visiting? The rental contract you signed indicates that, if so, there is a charge for $50 per extra person. Also, I need to know how many there are total as it may exceed the local ordinances regarding occupancy limits. A fire marshal may need to be sent out."

Whether you actually send a fire marshal out is up to you. But, you are trying to make it seem like a safety issue too, not that you are just hitting them up for more money. If it's within the occupancy limits, say you can send someone over right away to pick up the check and an updated list of all the names and ages of who are staying in the home, for legal liability reasons. Then send over the cleaning lady to pick up the check. Give her some money for doing so, as you will be getting extra money out of this, and she is doing you a favor.

OR, hire her to just go over to "check in on them" to make sure everything is okay and they got in okay. She's the cleaning lady/superintendent of the home. And when she sees the extra people, she can ask if all of them are staying and that there is an extra charge.

 

[Imzadi]

We have never had cameras before so this is new to us.

This could have been happening all along, where extra guests have stayed, as a PP mentioned happened in her mom's house. This may just be the first time you are actually alerted to what really has been going on all this time.

Since no one else in the past has ever wrecked your place, just hope for the best this time. But, definitely in the future, get a security deposit and do it though credit cards. You can sign up for a Square credit card processing account and process payments immediately over the Internet. They charge like 3% for each transaction. That's it. No monthly/yearly fees. Then you could have called up these renters and gotten a payment for the extra people immediately right over the phone.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

SLT? I'm guessing you've heard that they absolutely lay down the hammer now.

The 3 violations in 24 months resulting in permanent revocation of a vacation home rental permit would be what would worry me the most. Also - a requirement for a bear box? I thought it was voluntary for full-time residents.

Yep! We had an inspection last year that resulted in having to do several things. We had to put a sign next to the driveway that says only two cars can be parked there. We had to put a sign next to the front door that lists the name and number of a local contact (luckily we have a cleaning lady/caretaker who was willing to be listed). Inside, we had to put a saying saying the maximum occupancy is eight. They checked the smoke and C/O detectors, which were fine. A few years ago, my parents got a letter saying they had to get a bear box, which they did. The city also said we had to put small wooden posts along the front of the property to eliminate the ability for anyone to park. If you park in front of the posts, you're basically in the street. Our place is on a residential street. Only a few people have bear boxes and no one but us has the posts. Being a rental, we're subject to more scrutiny. In the winter, my parents rent to a group of ski instructors. They live in the Bay Area during the week and go up on weekends to work at the resorts. Since their lease is six months (Nov-April), they're technically considered long-term renters. If we only rented to them and only our family used the place the rest of the year, we would not be considered a short-term rental. But, my mom likes to rent weeks and weekends during the summer to people she knows. It helps cover the taxes and basic expenses of keeping the place up.

 

[bcla]

Yep! We had an inspection last year that resulted in having to do several things. We had to put a sign next to the driveway that says only two cars can be parked there. We had to put a sign next to the front door that lists the name and number of a local contact (luckily we have a cleaning lady/caretaker who was willing to be listed). Inside, we had to put a saying saying the maximum occupancy is eight. They checked the smoke and C/O detectors, which were fine. A few years ago, my parents got a letter saying they had to get a bear box, which they did. The city also said we had to put small wooden posts along the front of the property to eliminate the ability for anyone to park. If you park in front of the posts, you're basically in the street. Our place is on a residential street. Only a few people have bear boxes and no one but us has the posts. Being a rental, we're subject to more scrutiny. In the winter, my parents rent to a group of ski instructors. They live in the Bay Area during the week and go up on weekends to work at the resorts. Since their lease is six months (Nov-April), they're technically considered long-term renters. If we only rented to them and only our family used the place the rest of the year, we would not be considered a short-term rental. But, my mom likes to rent weeks and weekends during the summer to people she knows. It helps cover the taxes and basic expenses of keeping the place up.

If I were thinking of buying a vacation home in the Tahoe area that I might rent out, I'd avoid SLT. The rest of Tahoe has no city government, although I've heard that some counties are thinking of setting up certain areas for a similar treatment.

 

[Kae]

HI! They paid by check, which was already cashed.

Did it Clear?

 

[tvguy]

My parents own a rental home in South Lake Tahoe. With two bedrooms, a sleeping loft and only one bathroom, they limit the occupancy to eight. There is a paved driveway next to the house which can only fit two cars. The instructions say that only two cars can be parked and there is absolutely no on-street parking. So a few years ago, I started talking to a mom at my kids' school about Tahoe. She said her family rented the same place every summer. They would take two other families and set up air mattresses all over the floor. She said they could get up to 16 people in the place and once they split up the rental fee, it was pretty cheap. So I told her I was very familiar with the city and asked where the place was located. She told me the street name. She also told me the name of the nice but clueless lady they rented from (my mom's first name is not very common). She said they were planning to add even more people next time they rented. I said, "Oh! You've been renting my parents' place!" Her face went kind of white. She didn't say much else. So I asked my mom if she had been renting to the woman and my mom said, "Yes, they go every summer." I told her about the crowds of people she's been stuffing in there. Needless to say, that lady stopped renting from my mom.

It is a kind a balancing act. Is your mom concerned enough about how many people are in the house to lose a regular customer and take a chance on someone new?

But as has been mentioned, the governments in the South Lake Tahoe area are struggling with regulating rentals in a way that won't hurt a major industry there.

 

[mousefan73]

If I were in your situation I would be livid, Especially as such such a brat gives his finger to the camera.
I could understand especially being so far away being nervous bringing up the subject now as they are in your house. I would take this as a learning experience and just let it be. One idea someone mentioned was maybe sending an invoice post trip when they are already out of the house. I would avoid any escalation while they are in the house. But I would make some changes in how you manage your home for future rentals as others have said make a secure deposit and be especially clear that any guests , no matter what age, over six is an additional amount. maybe they assume that since they were children that did not count.

I would be tempted though to ask my friend who cleans the house to just come stop by suddenly when you knew they were all there And just be all nice saying” hi I’m just checking things out to make sure everything is OK “ . Or call the house just say that someone will be coming by the check maintenance , out some stupid excuse.

But I would not escalate anything specifically to the situation. let it be and just change how you do things in the future. I am still shocked that there’s so many more than the six allowed. I can understand thinking maybe one or two people more But that many more it’s just crazy

 

[Luv Bunnies]

It is a kind a balancing act. Is your mom concerned enough about how many people are in the house to lose a regular customer and take a chance on someone new?

But as has been mentioned, the governments in the South Lake Tahoe area are struggling with regulating rentals in a way that won't hurt a major industry there.

Yes, we would rather lose a regular renter who is stuffing so many extra people in the house. It raises the chance of having the neighbors complain about noise and extra cars, generates extra garbage, adds wear and tear on the house, etc. My parents are more like "casual landlords." They rent the entire winter to a ski group (same group for at least 10 years). Family members mostly use the place in the summer. We also go by word of mouth. I rented two weeks last year to my co-worker's family. I have another co-worker who wants to rent this summer. Especially with the increased regulations, we'd rather rent it to people we know.

 

[gotomu212]

My family has 3 vacation rental properties in a popular vacation designation. We ended up finally hiring a property manager because honestly these kinds of things are pretty common in the rental business and it’s really hard to police number of occupants and respond to it in a timely way. We tried the credit card route and ran into people who dispute the charges. We’ve tried security deposits but with so many competitors not requiring them it didn’t work.

It stinks but our approach is that if the adults are under the occupancy load we don’t raise a fuss about little kids. If it’s clearly being set up as a party house we ask the property managers to go shut it down, if someone was showing up with an insane number like the Tahoo person we’d call to also shut it down. If you are sending people over you are basically at the point of expecting them to leave (and you may or may not have to refund their money depending on your contract). You don’t want to get in a back and forth with people in your property.

However we also don’t charge an amount for extra guests. Each property is listed at the number of beds and you pay the whole property cost whether you have 3 people or 10 (that was the advice all the old timers in the area gave us).

Rentals are great for extra money but they are a lot of work!

 

[brunette8706]

I would give them a call right away and ask how many people are occupying the unit. If they say six, mention that you are checking because your outdoor security camera recorded 13 people entering the unit with luggage. See if they come clean at that point. Then let them know that, in accordance with the contract they signed, you will be billing them for the extra people. If they do damage to the unit, bill them for that too. Going forward, I would definitely recommend charging a refundable security deposit. In the contract, say the deposit will not be refunded if there is damage to the unit or if the number of occupants exceeds the agreed upon number.

My parents own a rental home in South Lake Tahoe. With two bedrooms, a sleeping loft and only one bathroom, they limit the occupancy to eight. There is a paved driveway next to the house which can only fit two cars. The instructions say that only two cars can be parked and there is absolutely no on-street parking. So a few years ago, I started talking to a mom at my kids' school about Tahoe. She said her family rented the same place every summer. They would take two other families and set up air mattresses all over the floor. She said they could get up to 16 people in the place and once they split up the rental fee, it was pretty cheap. So I told her I was very familiar with the city and asked where the place was located. She told me the street name. She also told me the name of the nice but clueless lady they rented from (my mom's first name is not very common). She said they were planning to add even more people next time they rented. I said, "Oh! You've been renting my parents' place!" Her face went kind of white. She didn't say much else. So I asked my mom if she had been renting to the woman and my mom said, "Yes, they go every summer." I told her about the crowds of people she's been stuffing in there. Needless to say, that lady stopped renting from my mom.

Hi there! Oh my gosh I LOVE your suggestions! WE WILL DEFINITELY DO THIS! My question is, though, what if he lies and says oh they are just visitors or guests! I just can't imagine if they were guests they all had suitcases and came in all at once. I can see if you have guests that may come in a day or two later. GREAT POINTS! THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[brunette8706]

My family has 3 vacation rental properties in a popular vacation designation. We ended up finally hiring a property manager because honestly these kinds of things are pretty common in the rental business and it’s really hard to police number of occupants and respond to it in a timely way. We tried the credit card route and ran into people who dispute the charges. We’ve tried security deposits but with so many competitors not requiring them it didn’t work.

It stinks but our approach is that if the adults are under the occupancy load we don’t raise a fuss about little kids. If it’s clearly being set up as a party house we ask the property managers to go shut it down, if someone was showing up with an insane number like the Tahoo person we’d call to also shut it down. If you are sending people over you are basically at the point of expecting them to leave (and you may or may not have to refund their money depending on your contract). You don’t want to get in a back and forth with people in your property.

However we also don’t charge an amount for extra guests. Each property is listed at the number of beds and you pay the whole property cost whether you have 3 people or 10 (that was the advice all the old timers in the area gave us).

Rentals are great for extra money but they are a lot of work!

Hi there! Another good idea! Maybe have to do that as a one set price point! Thank you!

 

[Keli]

There is the possibility that they all rode together but are actually staying in different locations. My family tends to do that at times and it might look like a similar thing in that you'd see a lot of folks walking in (because everyone is going to check out each other's places, lol) and we all help each other unload suitcases. But you would see half of them leaving at some point as well. If a bunch don't leave then you know they were all staying there.
But like so many others have said, no way would I say or do anything while they are still in the house since you are so far away. Because I wouldn't want them to start destroying my place. Much better to put policies in place to try to prevent it in the future and send these folks an invoice after the fact.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Hi there! Another good idea! Maybe have to do that as a one set price point! Thank you!

Yes!!!