Whats the best way to pay for college tuition

[crisi]

I have a freshman in college. We managed to save enough to send her to a private school without loans, but that isn't in the cards for you. But I have watched others go through this - everyone's kids are about the same age.

1. Be realistic about your own kids scholarship chances. Its great to hear that someone got a full ride, but those sorts of grades and test scores are not in all kid's futures no matter how much prep they do.

2. Do look at private schools who will often offer scholarships and such - but look at the GPA requirements for maintaining them. The first semester of your Freshman year is tough, and a lot of kids loose their scholarship out of the gate, while learning how to do college. They are more likely to get money at a school that is a safety school for them - where their GPA and test scores are above average - than get money at a school that will be a challenge for them to get into.

3. Consider the transfer rates for community colleges - the dirty secret is that their 2 year graduation rates are usually pretty bad, and their transfer rates into 4 year schools aren't great. If you go that route, be aware that while it has great financial benefits, it may take some focus to get to a four year school when you are around a bunch of kids that are functionally still high schoolers delaying adulthood.

4. Do NOT let your kid get their heart set on something you and they can't afford. If they are going to be taking out loans, have the loan talk with them and make sure they understand what they are getting into.

For people whose kids are younger:

1. Anyone taking regular Disney trips is probably not going to be eligible for much federal aid or need based school aid. Don't count on it.

1a. Those schools you hear that meet 100% of needs - your kid probably won't get into those schools - they have admission rates of less than 10% generally - and that isn't 10% of all students - that's 10% of the highly qualified students that apply. Hey if they get in, that's great - use your savings to spend Winter at Disney in your retirement. But be realistic about your chances. Your kid is still awesome, lots of awesome kids don't get admitted to those schools.

2. Your very smart and athletic seven year old could end up with Bs and Cs in high school and decide not to play varsity - not because they aren't smart, but because high school is a swamp - social anxiety, depression, hormonal relationships, poor decisions....don't count on that merit scholarship or athletic scholarship either. Its a long shot a long way away. Good luck (and congrats to all parents whose kids cleared all those hurdles effortlessly).

3. College will cost a lot of money. You can decide that you won't pay for it...that's your choice. They are unlikely to make it through if you can't at least help pay for it, and they will likely end up with big loans that will hold them back from buying a house, starting a family, etc. The more you can help, the easier their young adulthood is likely to be (and the less amount of time they can't afford their own place and are sleeping in their own bedroom while you say "we were going to downsize").

4. Take advantage of any cheap or free credits available while they are in high school. Our state offers dual enrollment - qualifying students go to college for free - including books - and some of my daughter's peers went to college as Juniors. The school also offered AP courses and offered CIS (College in the Schools) courses - which were University of Minnesota approved coursework. My daughter went in with enough credits to be a Sophomore (although her school only accepts one semester, so basically she went in with a buffer).

5. The upshot of all this advice is save for it. A 529 is a good idea. Heck, under your mattress is better than nothing. If you can at least save for two years of community college you are ahead of the game. If you want your kid to have a small liberal arts school experience (that was important to me), you are going to have to be pretty frugal. Start early and stick it aside regularly. Time passes quickly.

 

[kymom99]

I have a freshman in college. We managed to save enough to send her to a private school without loans, but that isn't in the cards for you. But I have watched others go through this - everyone's kids are about the same age.

1. Be realistic about your own kids scholarship chances. Its great to hear that someone got a full ride, but those sorts of grades and test scores are not in all kid's futures no matter how much prep they do.

2. Do look at private schools who will often offer scholarships and such - but look at the GPA requirements for maintaining them. The first semester of your Freshman year is tough, and a lot of kids loose their scholarship out of the gate, while learning how to do college. They are more likely to get money at a school that is a safety school for them - where their GPA and test scores are above average - than get money at a school that will be a challenge for them to get into.

3. Consider the transfer rates for community colleges - the dirty secret is that their 2 year graduation rates are usually pretty bad, and their transfer rates into 4 year schools aren't great. If you go that route, be aware that while it has great financial benefits, it may take some focus to get to a four year school when you are around a bunch of kids that are functionally still high schoolers delaying adulthood.

4. Do NOT let your kid get their heart set on something you and they can't afford. If they are going to be taking out loans, have the loan talk with them and make sure they understand what they are getting into.

For people whose kids are younger:

1. Anyone taking regular Disney trips is probably not going to be eligible for much federal aid or need based school aid. Don't count on it.

1a. Those schools you hear that meet 100% of needs - your kid probably won't get into those schools - they have admission rates of less than 10% generally - and that isn't 10% of all students - that's 10% of the highly qualified students that apply. Hey if they get in, that's great - use your savings to spend Winter at Disney in your retirement. But be realistic about your chances. Your kid is still awesome, lots of awesome kids don't get admitted to those schools.

2. Your very smart and athletic seven year old could end up with Bs and Cs in high school and decide not to play varsity - not because they aren't smart, but because high school is a swamp - social anxiety, depression, hormonal relationships, poor decisions....don't count on that merit scholarship or athletic scholarship either. Its a long shot a long way away. Good luck (and congrats to all parents whose kids cleared all those hurdles effortlessly).

3. College will cost a lot of money. You can decide that you won't pay for it...that's your choice. They are unlikely to make it through if you can't at least help pay for it, and they will likely end up with big loans that will hold them back from buying a house, starting a family, etc. The more you can help, the easier their young adulthood is likely to be (and the less amount of time they can't afford their own place and are sleeping in their own bedroom while you say "we were going to downsize").

4. Take advantage of any cheap or free credits available while they are in high school. Our state offers dual enrollment - qualifying students go to college for free - including books - and some of my daughter's peers went to college as Juniors. The school also offered AP courses and offered CIS (College in the Schools) courses - which were University of Minnesota approved coursework. My daughter went in with enough credits to be a Sophomore (although her school only accepts one semester, so basically she went in with a buffer).

5. The upshot of all this advice is save for it. A 529 is a good idea. Heck, under your mattress is better than nothing. If you can at least save for two years of community college you are ahead of the game. If you want your kid to have a small liberal arts school experience (that was important to me), you are going to have to be pretty frugal. Start early and stick it aside regularly. Time passes quickly.

I like your straight forward advice. My son has a good friend who was all set to got to school where he is going. His parents did well with the 529 route and were prepared to pay for it. Then he got scared and backed out. He wanted to be a fire investigator and that school is the only one in our state to offer this degree. While I'm glad he didn't waste his time, I think he sold himself short. Now he is going to community college and he thinks he wants to be an electrician. It's really hard at this age to know where you see yourself in several years. I was afraid my son might not want to venture out alone, but he was fine with it. He ended up with a room mate who was a lot like him. They got along just fine.

When my son was a junior in high school, he got a letter from a private college wanting him to come visit. They wanted him to run cross country for them. My son was a decent runner who started having breathing issues towards the end of his high school career. He would have loved to have been a college athlete and we would have loved it too, but we knew that wasn't the reason to choose a school. I was blunt with him from the start and didn't even entertain it. I showed him the school website and the cost to attend. He about passed out! We did the calculator and he realized it was never going to happen. Those small schools can't give athletic scholarships, that's why they recruit kids like mine. They also didn't have the major he wanted.

My son could have attended the state university that is right in our back yard and it would have cost us nearly nothing. But he had his major chosen so he went away. He stays in one of the cheapest dorms. He does not party. He has a 4.0 after 3 semesters. He is amazing. We discussed the fact that if he got there and changed his mind about his major, he could transfer home and could still go to school fairly cheaply. But to go the other way around, start here and then transfer away, he would have lost out on first year scholarships. So we decided he should go away to a state university with his major.

I admit we had little saved. I got some money when I retired that I used to get him started. Now I work my butt off subbing to help him pay his way so he can avoid loans as long as possible. He applied to be an RA for next fall but I'm not holding my breath. He is quiet and I'm not sure they will pick him. He has applied for many on campus jobs and can't even get a call for an interview. It's frustrating. He would be doing more to pay for things if he could get a job. He doesn't spend a lot on frivolous things. He did a great job getting college credits in high school, and he got a decent scholarship and KEES money. We will get through it.

 

[Mome Rath]

Some words about starting at a community college, which I highly recommend. What you want to do is find the community colleges that already have relationships with the universities. For example, the college where I was an instructor was a "sister" college to the University that most of our students transferred to. They were not formally connected, just set up so that there was a one to one class correspondence and all credits transferred when students went on to University. Also, if that is not available several universities also will accept an actual Associate's Degree as a direct correspondence to their core curriculum, so that while they may not do a one to one match the whole is viewed as taken care of the core. Another possibility is the students themselves can prove a one to one correspondence to classes, which is why I used to tell my Freshmen to keep every single syllabus, and the contact information for the instructors/profs that teach the classes. If you can prove that you already had a class, many times they will give you credit, I had to do that myself when transferring out of state with my husband to finish up my Bachelor's.

 

[ClapYourHands]

1. Be realistic about your own kids scholarship chances. Its great to hear that someone got a full ride, but those sorts of grades and test scores are not in all kid's futures no matter how much prep they do.

Yes. I saw a lot of people on this thread talking about merit scholarships. Those are great. They're a big part of how I afforded the college I attended. I have one son who has a decent shot at merit. I have another who really doesn't. He's a wonderful kid, and with a lot of support (special ed teacher, aides, school psychologist) he's moving from Below Expectations last year to mostly Near Expectations and even a few Meets Expectations on his last report card. But as amazing as he is in many ways, I have to be realistic and say that school is probably going to always be a struggle for him. It's not particularly fair, but ODS is going to be expected to apply his butt off for scholarships because merit is probably the only free money he'll get. DH and I will probably be paying rack rate for YDS.

3. Consider the transfer rates for community colleges - the dirty secret is that their 2 year graduation rates are usually pretty bad, and their transfer rates into 4 year schools aren't great. If you go that route, be aware that while it has great financial benefits, it may take some focus to get to a four year school when you are around a bunch of kids that are functionally still high schoolers delaying adulthood.

Our CCs have articulation agreements with the regional state universities and the flagship state university. The credits transfer easily, and there is a pathway that guarantees if you take (and pass) certain courses that you automatically gain admission to a regional state university. BUT there's definitely less community and support at the CC level. Everyone's a commuter, and with so many people at different phases of their lives, there's much less involvement in campus life and fewer chances to connect with others.

I went the CC route when I went back for a career change in my 30s. I asked my bio teacher about how what we were learning corresponded to what is taught at the 4-year schools, and she said that at least 80% had to be identical, with the individual professors having discretion about the other 20%. So from an academic standpoint, the CCs are generally solid (at least in sciences - the humanities are another story for another day). But my microbiology professor said that her grades were not even close to a bell curve; they were more like a U. There were the people like myself who were strong academically and looking for cheap credits, either for a second career or first time college students with financial or family reasons to stick close to home and save money with the intent to transfer - we were getting As and Bs. Then there were the people who were poorly prepared in high school, and the CCs were the only place they could get into, since there's no real admission process other than having a GED or diploma that may or may not represent real learning - they were getting Ds and Fs. She said she had relatively few Cs.

A kid like ODS would probably be okay going to a CC for a couple of years to get his core courses out of the way, staying on track, and getting As. But then someone like him would also be fine getting those credits through AP courses and duel enrollment. Someone like YDS would probably not have the support he'd need to succeed. It's not a question of motivation or intelligence; it's just how his brain works and he's waaaayyyy too distractible on his own.

So, it's really important to think not just about the finances of your family, but also the needs of the individual student.

 

[AlohaNow]

Thanks so much for the detailed advice crisi! Great stuff. I have a question for those of you who have recently gone through the college admissions process. For anyone who has a student that earned merit aid, how much did class rank play into the awarding of any particular reward? I ask because DS16 is debating the IB program which he has been invited to join. We have been learning as much about it as we can and know that earning the IB diploma ‘looks good’ on a college application. But in speaking with parents whose students have graduated IB and gone on to college I have heard from some that their child, in their opinion, lost out on potential merit money because their class ranking was not as high as it could have been due to the rigor of the IB program. (That word is used a lot to describe IB – rigorous! I’m already sick of hearing it.) I know this can play into weighted and unweighted GPAs, how the HS determines these, and how any particular college’s admissions office views them as well. I just thought that was an interesting take on viewing IB and whether the entire program was worth it or not.

Technically this question does relate to how to pay for college!

 

[barkley]

. Consider the transfer rates for community colleges - the dirty secret is that their 2 year graduation rates are usually pretty bad, and their transfer rates into 4 year schools aren't great. If you go that route, be aware that while it has great financial benefits, it may take some focus to get to a four year school when you are around a bunch of kids that are functionally still high schoolers delaying adulthood.

this can vary greatly on the individual community college. some have great graduation and transfer rates. additionally, not all community colleges have a 'kid' demographic w/only just recent high school grads., many include large populations of vets using their benefits to study for post service careers, change in career middle aged students-as well as the ever growing population of students that enroll 1-2 years AFTER they've graduated from high school and did the crash and burn at the high priced 4 year school they were in no way ready to attend. employed and self supporting students tend to number higher among community college vs. 4 year schools so i think to label them all as delaying adulthood is a bit off target.

 

[kymom99]

Thanks so much for the detailed advice crisi! Great stuff. I have a question for those of you who have recently gone through the college admissions process. For anyone who has a student that earned merit aid, how much did class rank play into the awarding of any particular reward? I ask because DS16 is debating the IB program which he has been invited to join. We have been learning as much about it as we can and know that earning the IB diploma ‘looks good’ on a college application. But in speaking with parents whose students have graduated IB and gone on to college I have heard from some that their child, in their opinion, lost out on potential merit money because their class ranking was not as high as it could have been due to the rigor of the IB program. (That word is used a lot to describe IB – rigorous! I’m already sick of hearing it.) I know this can play into weighted and unweighted GPAs, how the HS determines these, and how any particular college’s admissions office views them as well. I just thought that was an interesting take on viewing IB and whether the entire program was worth it or not.

Technically this question does relate to how to pay for college!

The universities we looked at used a formula that included unweighted GPA and ACT score. Pretty much cut and dried.

My son took a lot of honors and AP courses. In my opinion these did hinder his GPA a bit because the schools used the unweighted GPA. How they arrive at that figure is not really clear to me. But that’s the reason why he missed out on another $4000 a year. He needed 2 more ACT points or about .06 more on his GPA. He was so close. Unfortunately in high school he was a very good student but not a straight A student overall.

 

[ClapYourHands]

Thanks so much for the detailed advice crisi! Great stuff. I have a question for those of you who have recently gone through the college admissions process. For anyone who has a student that earned merit aid, how much did class rank play into the awarding of any particular reward? I ask because DS16 is debating the IB program which he has been invited to join. We have been learning as much about it as we can and know that earning the IB diploma ‘looks good’ on a college application. But in speaking with parents whose students have graduated IB and gone on to college I have heard from some that their child, in their opinion, lost out on potential merit money because their class ranking was not as high as it could have been due to the rigor of the IB program. (That word is used a lot to describe IB – rigorous! I’m already sick of hearing it.) I know this can play into weighted and unweighted GPAs, how the HS determines these, and how any particular college’s admissions office views them as well. I just thought that was an interesting take on viewing IB and whether the entire program was worth it or not.

Technically this question does relate to how to pay for college!

So, before I changed careers to nursing, I taught high school in a very high performing district. My school did away with class rank probably about 10 years ago specifically because of the way rank can be used, or perhaps misused, during the college application process. Their reasoning was that the difference between a kid ranked 1st and a kid ranked 10th was often very minuscule, but it seemed to be disadvantaging the kid ranked 10th, even if he or she were nearly identical to the kid ranked first or second. Instead colleges were told where the student fit percentile-wise in the class. Graduation speakers were one teacher-selected senior and one student-voted senior instead of valedictorian and salutatorian.

Most colleges want to see you take rigorous courses AND do well in them. My school does not have IB, but it does have AP and honors courses, and extra weight is given to grades from those classes. So a B in an AP class is the same as an A in a regular class. You'll have to look at your child's school to see how grades are weighted. There are some universities that look at weighted GPAs, and others that look at weighted GPAs and immediately "unweight" them to figure out what the "real" GPA is. I think it's very much a YMMV type of situation.

For the parents complaining about missing out on merit money, there's always the chance that they've got a halo effect when viewing their own children, and don't have enough data to really know why their child didn't get merit money and another child did. @crisi is right that merit money is usually given to students who choose to attend a school a bit "below" the tier of the school they could gain admission to. Very, very, very few go to elite schools AND get merit scholarships. If a kid goes through the IB program and does reasonably well, but doesn't excel (i.e. the kid whose parents complain that his or her rank is lower than it would have been in regular classes), he or she probably has the choice of getting into a higher tier school with no merit award or going to a lower tier school and getting some kind of merit aid. But that child would probably be in the same position had he or she taken regular classes because the university would look at him or her and wonder why he or she didn't take on the challenge of IB/AP/Honors.

 

[LuckyMamaInDE]

Thanks so much for the detailed advice crisi! Great stuff. I have a question for those of you who have recently gone through the college admissions process. For anyone who has a student that earned merit aid, how much did class rank play into the awarding of any particular reward? I ask because DS16 is debating the IB program which he has been invited to join. We have been learning as much about it as we can and know that earning the IB diploma ‘looks good’ on a college application. But in speaking with parents whose students have graduated IB and gone on to college I have heard from some that their child, in their opinion, lost out on potential merit money because their class ranking was not as high as it could have been due to the rigor of the IB program. (That word is used a lot to describe IB – rigorous! I’m already sick of hearing it.) I know this can play into weighted and unweighted GPAs, how the HS determines these, and how any particular college’s admissions office views them as well. I just thought that was an interesting take on viewing IB and whether the entire program was worth it or not.

Technically this question does relate to how to pay for college!

My youngest is a freshman with merit scholarships at a Big Ten school, states away from home. She was homeschooled from fifth grade on. I served as her guidance counselor during the admissions process.

First, does the school report class rank to colleges? There's a spot on the school's part of the Common App for this. The guidance or college counselor should be able to answer this question easily for you.

Second, does the school report both unweighted and weighted GPA? Check your son's report card or ask the counselor for an unofficial transcript copy.

When you visit potential colleges' websites, search under 'merit scholarships' to see what information those colleges use to determine merit money. Is there a grid of GPA and SAT/ACT scores? Do they use unweighted GPA? Do they only consider certain core classes in their own calculation of GPA? Or does the school say something like "we consider the whole student" in calculating merit aid? If so, you need to do a LOT of research to see who gets merit scholarships. CollegeConfidential was a huge help to me with this! I read through entire years of threads dedicated to particular schools.

Obviously dd did not have class rank, being homeschooled. She did have high test scores (SAT and ACT), lots of AP classes (one online, the others taught by me with syllabi I had approved by the College Board), and six university classes from our state flagship. I reported both unweighted and weighted GPAs on her transcript because some colleges looked at the weighted GPA for automatic merit scholarships. Dd had been very active in three extracurriculars through high school, too.

My dd had very specific academic requirements in her potential college which helped greatly to narrow down the list of schools. By Christmas of junior year, I still had 28 schools in the US to investigate (I kept the legal pad lol) because we had very specific $$ requirements for her: she had to earn enough merit scholarships to bring the Cost of Attendance down to the CoA of our state's flagship university (loans were out of the picture). Some schools that would be great fits for her did not give any money to out-of-state students, some gave only a few thousand dollars max. Some schools had competitive full-ride and full-tuition scholarships, some requiring separate, very long applications with very early deadlines (October 1!).

 

[platamama]

Thanks so much for the detailed advice crisi! Great stuff. I have a question for those of you who have recently gone through the college admissions process. For anyone who has a student that earned merit aid, how much did class rank play into the awarding of any particular reward? I ask because DS16 is debating the IB program which he has been invited to join. We have been learning as much about it as we can and know that earning the IB diploma ‘looks good’ on a college application. But in speaking with parents whose students have graduated IB and gone on to college I have heard from some that their child, in their opinion, lost out on potential merit money because their class ranking was not as high as it could have been due to the rigor of the IB program. (That word is used a lot to describe IB – rigorous! I’m already sick of hearing it.) I know this can play into weighted and unweighted GPAs, how the HS determines these, and how any particular college’s admissions office views them as well. I just thought that was an interesting take on viewing IB and whether the entire program was worth it or not.

Technically this question does relate to how to pay for college!

I'm also in CO, and our school district doesn't have class ranking anymore and hasn't for about 8 years. I think kids get a summa, magna, or cum laude or something like that instead. Our high school also offers an IB program (for Diploma only I think, not the cafeteria style Certificate program) and I heard a school admin say that only those kids get the checkmark in the "Most demanding" course selections box on the form that counselors fill out for colleges. Selective colleges will be looking for that checkmark. So at our high school if a kid wants that box checked, they will be in the IB program, and that's going to be a consideration for us. You might want to find out from your school to see if the policy is the same there (if selective colleges are on your horizon). Also, our school weights the AP & IB classes, so there is an actual hidden class rank and maybe that's what determines the summa/magna/cum laude designations, but colleges will never see it (I don't think we'll ever see it either).

We're another year away from deciding if DD will be doing IB, there are definitely pros and cons to it and I'm saying that as an IB Diplomate myself, I realize it's not for everyone. I was glad I went through the program even though when I went to college nobody knew what the heck it was. That's changed, thank goodness, but AP is still the predominant honors track system.

DD will be taking the ACT and SAT this year through an academic talent search, to give her exposure to the tests without pressure, and to get a baseline. She took the SAT last year too (because she wanted to!), so that will be interesting to see if there's any change in her score. If it goes up, that might mean she doesn't have to take it again (one can hope, right).

 

[crisi]

We don't know what when into the award decision for my daughter's merit aid - the processes are not at all transparent. Admission processes, aid processes - you generally don't know why you got denied acceptance or merit aid and someone else got it.

She didn't have a great class rank, and her GPA was only OK. But she did have a LOT of advanced coursework including college credits, an ACT score of 32, a 1450 SAT, wonderful recommendations and a very good resume that included civil involvement, volunteer work, and leadership roles. And she went to a school where she is outside of their majority demographic - in this case she's a Midwestern white girl out on the East Coast - its merely a geographic demographic, but that still sometimes plays. And finally, she went to a school where your recommendations, interests, and activities are more important than straight As or a 1400 SAT score (and its still a nationally ranked top 100 university). By the way, with a frankly disappointing GPA and graduating below the top 10% of her class, she still made it into American University and Sarah Lawrence (but didn't choose either of them). Merit aid everywhere she got accepted, but $25,000 a year off of a $60k a year school still leaves a lot coming out of Mom and Dad's pocket.

One piece of advice I got early - when your kid starts high school, help them start a college resume with all their volunteer work and extracurriculars. Look for something where they will have a leadership role by the time they apply for college at the start of their Senior year - and because you can't count on them getting elected captain of the swim team, look for something where that's a shoe in. (For my daughter, it was Girl Scouts, gaming conventions and church). Make sure to also note anything you want mentioned in recommendation letters.

On the IB front, I have heard that there are several issues with IB - one being rigor. Another being that it doesn't always translate well to college credit (the AP system is cut and dried - the IB system seems to be fuzzier, but I'm not well informed). I think that a lot of it depends on what options you have and what quality education you will get without IB...i.e. at some schools its your only path to a real college prep program, at other schools, the non-IB program is excellent and IB is simply a different option to get a good education.

 

[AlohaNow]

Thank you for the info! I am sure that there is a differing matrix for each and every college and merit award. I was just curious to hear of people’s recent experiences. It’s all very interesting! I wouldn’t have even known my kid’s class rank except that this time last year he had to obtain his unofficial transcript in order to finalize his participation in an exchange student program for this year. The transcript did contain both weighted and unweighted GPA, as well as class rank, so they are probably reported out like that. But we have two years to figure that out!

The people who run the IB program at his school all seem very nice, but it also seems kind of like he would be joining a cult! We’ve gone to all the parent meetings, gathered lots of info, including the pros and cons. When he returns from his year abroad he can decide to enter his junior year as IB or not. With an actual year spent immersed internationally, I’m thinking it is less important for him to spend all those extra hours on academics and miss out on other regular HS things in order to have the IB designation. He may just be sticking with AP classes. The comment we hear the most is that someone’s oldest child did IB and after seeing that experience firsthand, none of their younger siblings who were offered the program took it. I think that speaks volumes!

 

[MomToOne]

Most of my DD’s professors encouraged students to RENT textbooks. A few said you may want to purchase this book because you will likely use it later but most said to RENT and for a semester, renting books cost about $100-$150. The school bookstore could rent some and the rest were rented online.

I honestly don't find renting to be that great of a deal. I've been able to get all of DDs books used on Ebay, Amazon or other websites for significantly less, or worst case the same price, as the cost of renting. It just takes some patience and time. Neither of which DD has, so purchasing her books is the one element of her college career I still have something to do with other than writing checks LOL

The other problem with renting is you don't know the condition of the book you'll get. DD gets distracted by anyone else's highlighting, so she wants clean copy only. By buying used, I can ensure that she gets books that work best for her.

At the end of the semester, we just sell back any books that get a decent price and she doesn't want to keep. Usually I get back about 50% of the initial cost, but some books bring in almost the same that I pay for them.

 

[MrsPete]

As a former college instructor, I'd add that the student, once in high school, should be the one going to the advisors/counselors and asking about financial aid, scholarships, dual credit classes, etc... Yes, the parent can be with them early on, but make sure the student is the one pursuing this and talking to adults. It's not just for the kid to learn, but those people will be much more impressed and willing to help if it is the student going after things under their own steam.

Agree. It's fine to HELP your child /give them a push to get them started, but if your student just isn't pursuing information about colleges /resists applying for scholarships, it's a hint that the student isn't ready -- either academically or emotionally. If these are the hints you're getting, listen!

Your student can literally walk into community college in August (at least, you can here). He may not have his pick of classes, but he can enroll last-minute.

And parents who have purchased textbooks are just sharing the amount one can expect to pay. It certainly is relevant when discussing the costs associated with college.

Yep, the point is, consider the total cost of college -- not just the tuition.

My wife runs a bookstore at a University and the book business is changing ...

Yeah, I believe it all. Two of my fellow teachers (both younger, both just out of college) worked in two different college bookstores, and here's what they say about renting: Only about 1/3 of all the students who rent books from the bookstore return them (or return them on time). This is particularly ridiculous because signs are all over campus, "Return your Rentals!", and students who've rented receive multiple emails. When the parents see a charge for the cost of the book on their credit card statement, they call up saying, "This is a mistake!" The answer is, "Nope, you're now a book owner."

Seems foolish to me: If you can get into college, you should understand that renting is a business transaction, and you must fulfill your half of the bargain ... but, as I said, two people said the same thing about bookstores in two different colleges.

My wife has proposed to her university that they include a "fee" to all students for the costs of books associated with their regular student fees. With this, all books would be provided to the students every semester by the bookstore at no additional costs.

That's exactly what my daughters' university does. They charge us a $105/semester fee, and most undergrad textbooks are provided -- for fall and spring semesters, not summer school. Grad students are not included in this deal. If the class requires multiple books, sometimes the student has to pay for some. Consumable lab books are not included in this deal.

Downside: Because all students get their books from the same source, those who aren't smart enough to come in at the crack of dawn can wait 2-3 hours to reach the rental counter. Still, it's a great program.

3. Consider the transfer rates for community colleges - the dirty secret is that their 2 year graduation rates are usually pretty bad, and their transfer rates into 4 year schools aren't great. If you go that route, be aware that while it has great financial benefits, it may take some focus to get to a four year school when you are around a bunch of kids that are functionally still high schoolers delaying adulthood.

Yeah,I've been teaching high school seniors for years, and some of them opt for community college because it's kinda the path of least resistance ... but those who haven't been, um, enthusiastic about their high school careers don't typically become great students overnight just because they are in college. The result is that community colleges are filled with kids who are attending 13th grade.

Community college was the right choice for my daughter. She wasn't ready to leave home. But, yeah, her peer group was somewhat lacking, and their graduation rate isn't so great because a whole lot of those students turn out to be "One Semester Wonders". Still, it was the right choice for her.

4. Do NOT let your kid get their heart set on something you and they can't afford. If they are going to be taking out loans, have the loan talk with them and make sure they understand what they are getting into.

Agree, but easier said than done sometimes!

athletic scholarship either. Its a long shot a long way away. Good luck (and congrats to all parents whose kids cleared all those hurdles effortlessly).

Lots of high school athletes THINK they're going to get an athletic scholarship, but they lack the long-term vision to see themselves as big fish in small ponds. If your student athlete really does have what it takes to play college sports, you also need to "play the game". I don't know enough about it to discuss it knowledgeably, but there's some Clearinghouse thing that matters. And grades matter. The movie concept of the recruiter sitting in the stands and giving his business card to the quarterback's parents is pure Hollywood.

If you really think your kid has a shot, go to your high school's Athletic Director and ask for help. Some coaches are more knowledgeable than others -- this is a place for parents to be proactive.

He applied to be an RA for next fall but I'm not holding my breath. He is quiet and I'm not sure they will pick him.

I was very quiet in high school and college, and I was an RA. If it helps, when I was in school guys had a MUCH easier time getting RA jobs ... simply because fewer guys applied, yet they needed 50% of their RAs to be guys.

Some words about starting at a community college, which I highly recommend. What you want to do is find the community colleges that already have relationships with the universities.

In our state, we are guaranteed that 100% of the coursework at community college will transfer to state universities ... not necessarily as mandatory coursework, but at least as elective credit.

I assume it's the same everywhere: My youngest, who started at community college, was 90% sure which university she'd attend ... so we relied heavily upon that university's online transfer website. It is an interactive website; you put in your community college, then you put in the classes you've taken ... and the computer tells you exactly what type of credit you'll get at that particular university. It takes time, but the information is available. Of course, if you don't know what university you'll attend eventually, the question is much harder.

My son took a lot of honors and AP courses. In my opinion these did hinder his GPA a bit because the schools used the unweighted GPA. How they arrive at that figure is not really clear to me. But that’s the reason why he missed out on another $4000 a year. He needed 2 more ACT points or about .06 more on his GPA. He was so close. Unfortunately in high school he was a very good student but not a straight A student overall.

The question is, "Should I play the GPA game? Should I take the lower-level class where I know I can earn an A+, or take the more rigorous class, knowing I may end up with a B or even a C?" That's a crap shoot; no one knows the answer.

In general, students who take the more rigorous class are better prepared (MUCH better prepared) for college ... and your goal isn't to gain admission; your goal is for your student to graduate from college. On the other hand, the student taking higher-level (but not AP) classes may come out looking stronger on paper, and he may get the scholarship over the B-C AP student. The only honest answer: Your mileage may vary, and even if we could give a solid answer, we don't know what competition your student will face in any given year.

If you're looking for a sure-thing, go with dual enrollment between high school and college. Your student cannot control how he is seen on scholarship forms, who else applies, or what questions the AP testers may throw at him ... but he CAN control whether he puts in the effort to pass those community college classes and pad his transcript before he is officially a college student.

My school did away with class rank probably about 10 years ago specifically because of the way rank can be used, or perhaps misused, during the college application process. Their reasoning was that the difference between a kid ranked 1st and a kid ranked 10th was often very minuscule, but it seemed to be disadvantaging the kid ranked 10th, even if he or she were nearly identical to the kid ranked first or second. Instead colleges were told where the student fit percentile-wise in the class. Graduation speakers were one teacher-selected senior and one student-voted senior instead of valedictorian and salutatorian.

Our school has done the same thing, and I have mixed feelings about it:

- Yes, the difference between #1 and #10 is usually determined in the third or fourth decimal point; those kids in the top 20-30 are all so close in terms of grades that it really makes no difference.
- In the real world, someone will win the presidency, and someone else won't. It seems disingenuous to deny this.
- The year we stopped doing Val and Sal, the mother of the #3 student (happened to be a teacher) was one of the most outspoken opponents, saying we should KEEP those top distinctions -- in spite of the fact that her own son was only a tiny, tiny way away from having been one of those students.

Our school allows any graduating senior to audition for a spot as graduation speaker. I like this. Not every Valedictorian wants to speak, and not every Valedictorian is good at public speaking.
No matter which side of this you come down on, it's still possible to have Val and Sal ... and let someone else speak.

For the parents complaining about missing out on merit money, there's always the chance that they've got a halo effect when viewing their own children, and don't have enough data to really know why their child didn't get merit money and another child did.

Yes, halo effect is very real.

 

[tink1970]

Thanks so much for the detailed advice crisi! Great stuff. I have a question for those of you who have recently gone through the college admissions process. For anyone who has a student that earned merit aid, how much did class rank play into the awarding of any particular reward? I ask because DS16 is debating the IB program which he has been invited to join. We have been learning as much about it as we can and know that earning the IB diploma ‘looks good’ on a college application. But in speaking with parents whose students have graduated IB and gone on to college I have heard from some that their child, in their opinion, lost out on potential merit money because their class ranking was not as high as it could have been due to the rigor of the IB program. (That word is used a lot to describe IB – rigorous! I’m already sick of hearing it.) I know this can play into weighted and unweighted GPAs, how the HS determines these, and how any particular college’s admissions office views them as well. I just thought that was an interesting take on viewing IB and whether the entire program was worth it or not.

Technically this question does relate to how to pay for college!

It's a great question because at least in our area IB is so different than dual enrollment and AP classes (I know this because I'm a mentor to high school students in these programs). Having compared the work load and quality of education provided in our area there is no comparison. IB is more stressful, has more demands and the tests are different (again I've proctored both so I can see the clear differences in the test question styles). It is so much more rigorous (grueling/brutal/exhausting are also good adjectives) than the alternatives and it appears that some universities recognize this (several of her classmates have already been accepted to Ivy League universities). Several Universities have admission officers who are assigned to regions who then familiarize themselves with the respective high schools and know which ones offer the most demanding courses. Ivies, of course, do no provide merit scholarships so that's not pertinent to this thread title however

My child is not good with grades but excellent with test scores (National Merit Semifinalist) and getting 5s on APs and 6 on her IB tests/evaluations. She has only received acceptances to three universities so far but all have offered thousands of dollars in scholarships. So...not sure if her lower grades/lower class rank (due to being in IB) have affected her significantly. We'll see how I feel after we receive notifications from her target and dream schools. I think it can work against students who are applying for local/national scholarships and if those scholarships don't consider weighted gpas (my DD's unweighted is 3.6; weighted is 4.6---huge difference!).

That said, although I don't believe the was IB program was ideal; I do think she is more prepared for university--her friends who graduated last year find themselves breezing through-both their knowledge is greater and their study habits are better. I've struggled with whether it would have been better for her to attend the local Catholic school and had all As and been in the top 5% of her class, gotten admitted to a good school and struggled then. Every child is different and only you know how well your son will juggle classroom assignments, IB program assignments, the extended essay, the CAS (100 hour service projects) and then of course extra curricular activities.

Today, as she was getting ready to fly to her grandparents for Christmas, she said "I would just like to have a real break for once." Between summer reading, her CAS, EE research, IB IAs she hasn't had a "true" break from school in years. Even on our Rhine River ABD cruise last Christmas she was up at 2 am working on her IA (internal assessment) every night.

I don't know if this is helpful or not...I honestly think being a National Merit Semifinalist has been a big factor in scholarships she might receive while being in the IB program is a strong factor when applying to universities.

DH and I wouldn't let DD apply to any university we wouldn't feel comfortable paying 100%. Fortunately only a couple on her list will be a stretch for us. We have prepaid tuition plan and a 529 for her and of course in Florida if you earn an IB diploma there's the Bright Future Scholarship is awarded (almost) automatically.

Good luck with your DS and his decision!

We're another year away from deciding if DD will be doing IB, there are definitely pros and cons to it and I'm saying that as an IB Diplomate myself, I realize it's not for everyone. I was glad I went through the program even though when I went to college nobody knew what the heck it was. That's changed, thank goodness, but AP is still the predominant honors track system.

LOL! The most challenging teachers at DD's program are graduates of the same IB program-just can't get much past them

 

[kymom99]

I guess the best advice is to make the plan that fits your family, but don’t be surprised if things don’t work out the way you plan. Be flexible and proactive so you always have a plan B.

 

[tvguy]

I guess the best advice is to make the plan that fits your family, but don’t be surprised if things don’t work out the way you plan. Be flexible and proactive so you always have a plan B.

Yup. And it isn't like you haven't had 18+ years to plan.

 

[floridafam]

It's a great question because at least in our area IB is so different than dual enrollment and AP classes (I know this because I'm a mentor to high school students in these programs). Having compared the work load and quality of education provided in our area there is no comparison. IB is more stressful, has more demands and the tests are different (again I've proctored both so I can see the clear differences in the test question styles). It is so much more rigorous (grueling/brutal/exhausting are also good adjectives) than the alternatives and it appears that some universities recognize this (several of her classmates have already been accepted to Ivy League universities). Several Universities have admission officers who are assigned to regions who then familiarize themselves with the respective high schools and know which ones offer the most demanding courses. Ivies, of course, do no provide merit scholarships so that's not pertinent to this thread title however

My child is not good with grades but excellent with test scores (National Merit Semifinalist) and getting 5s on APs and 6 on her IB tests/evaluations. She has only received acceptances to three universities so far but all have offered thousands of dollars in scholarships. So...not sure if her lower grades/lower class rank (due to being in IB) have affected her significantly. We'll see how I feel after we receive notifications from her target and dream schools. I think it can work against students who are applying for local/national scholarships and if those scholarships don't consider weighted gpas (my DD's unweighted is 3.6; weighted is 4.6---huge difference!).

That said, although I don't believe the was IB program was ideal; I do think she is more prepared for university--her friends who graduated last year find themselves breezing through-both their knowledge is greater and their study habits are better. I've struggled with whether it would have been better for her to attend the local Catholic school and had all As and been in the top 5% of her class, gotten admitted to a good school and struggled then. Every child is different and only you know how well your son will juggle classroom assignments, IB program assignments, the extended essay, the CAS (100 hour service projects) and then of course extra curricular activities.

Today, as she was getting ready to fly to her grandparents for Christmas, she said "I would just like to have a real break for once." Between summer reading, her CAS, EE research, IB IAs she hasn't had a "true" break from school in years. Even on our Rhine River ABD cruise last Christmas she was up at 2 am working on her IA (internal assessment) every night.

I don't know if this is helpful or not...I honestly think being a National Merit Semifinalist has been a big factor in scholarships she might receive while being in the IB program is a strong factor when applying to universities.

DH and I wouldn't let DD apply to any university we wouldn't feel comfortable paying 100%. Fortunately only a couple on her list will be a stretch for us. We have prepaid tuition plan and a 529 for her and of course in Florida if you earn an IB diploma there's the Bright Future Scholarship is awarded (almost) automatically.

Good luck with your DS and his decision!



LOL! The most challenging teachers at DD's program are graduates of the same IB program-just can't get much past them

Our DS did IB and took AP exams. He felt that doing both would benefit him
most and I think it did. He was also a National Merit finalist. He was able to
start college with over 20 IB and AP credits. He gets Bright Futures, Top Scholars, and the Benecquisto Scholarship, to name a few.

Some of the amounts of money he was offered surprised us. He was our first child in college and we learned a lot going through the process.

Any particular FL schools she is interested in?

 

[QueenIsabella]

Our DD15 is doing the IB program as well. Although she's our third child, she's the first that's going through the NC school system, so this choice wasn't available for our older kids. So far, so good--it's a lot of work, but she's managing, and we hope it pays off for her in terms of college acceptance. She won't be getting any need-based aid, but we're hoping for some merit aid. She wants to go to law school, so we've emphasized that, whatever she can save on undergrad cam go towards that.

 

[tink1970]

Our DS did IB and took AP exams. He felt that doing both would benefit him
most and I think it did. He was also a National Merit finalist. He was able to
start college with over 20 IB and AP credits. He gets Bright Futures, Top Scholars, and the Benecquisto Scholarship, to name a few.

Some of the amounts of money he was offered surprised us. He was our first child in college and we learned a lot going through the process.

Any particular FL schools she is interested in?

Ah, the Benecquisto...the dream ! When she was accepted to Safety school #3 with about 40% tuition/fees paid with scholarships on Thursday the first thing she said was "now I'm definitely getting out of Florida." Sigh...so although UF is currently listed as the NMF university, unless she has a very big change of heart she won't be staying here and saving us money! If she weren't our only AND if I hadn't scrupulously saved for her college, then that would be a different situation...I think Florida is very generous with their scholarship opportunities for in state students between Bright Futures, the Ben, etc.