Where should my kid go? Help :(

[JLTraveling]

I think the thing is you're talking to us like we don't get it. No I can't get being that profoundly intelligent. But I know how it was to be the sister of a person who ended up an elitist, someone who literally turned up their nose at those who she didn't perceive to be on her level (she did end up going to Ivy league purely due to academics cuz we sure didn't have the money lol). People her age were coming to me (I was 3 years younger) telling me how she treated others. How she treated me (she spent my freshman year, her senior year of high school calling me stupid or an idiot nearly every day despite the fact that her and I exceled at some overlapping things/getting awards). You have other posters discussing this as well with respects to how people can treat others.

The key part that people are picking up on isn't about how the son would feel about themselves but rather how they feel for others. Regardless of how tortured or not tortured you may feel you don't really want someone to interact with others as if they endlessly frustrate you because they aren't on your level. That isn't about solving boredom because if you do solve the boredom how do you approach the next time you're around others, in the grocery store, at the playground, then when you move on in schooling, then with any romantic relationships you have, or the workplace, etc.

I'm not saying the kid shouldn't be in programs that are more suited for them and I feel like you're trying to make that point, I'm talking about far more reaching and more basic. Realistically you cannot simply surround yourself with the profoundly gifted for the decades and decades and decades you may be alive, you also need to learn to how to interact with others who are not as "profoundly gifted" as you are, at least that is what some of us are mentioning.

As far as your last statement that is life in a nutshell. We all have had experiences in the world, in the workplace, school and relationships where things are directly related to the actions of others. Sometimes it's serious ramifications. sometimes not. And it sure doesn't take being profoundly gifted to be frustrated at that. But how we deal with that says a lot. Describing it like you're an adult and others are kindergartners is precisely what I'm talking about, it's rather presumptuous, rude, and unkind. I value a lot of different things about people, that viewpoint only getting stronger with my own experiences in college with my psychology degree and the various classes I took. Granted you have more educational experience as I only have a B.S. but we do approach things differently at times, this is one of them.

It sounds like we're in about 95% agreement here. I do NOT think that being elitist is okay, and I'm sorry that you had to go through that with your sister. I completely agree with you that people need to interact with others who have a wide variety of backgrounds, experiences, intelligence levels, and so forth. And I think you misread my comment about adults vs kindergarteners. I'm not casting myself as an adult and others as kindergarteners. I'm saying that within the classroom setting ONLY, forcing profoundly gifted to maintain pace with those of average intelligence is the equivalent of putting an adult in a kindergarten class. And you mentioned that you agree with putting kids in programs that are more suited for them. Outside of the place that they spend 6-8 hours a day on academics, YES. You are absolutely right. Again, I go back to the point of those who are three standard deviations below the mean. People with IQs of 50 also need to get as much socialization as possible and learn to get along in the real world as much as they possibly can. But they can't be expected to behave as average kids in a standard classroom, right? Neither can those three standard deviations above the norm.

ETA: Something that really bothers me is the fact that people with this fundamental individual difference are automatically branded as elitist if they need something different. I'm not sure what's elitist about being seven years old and praying for a traumatic brain injury that would wipe out 80 IQ points so you could be normal. I'm not sure what's elitist about crying your eyes out because you just wanted to show your friends your cool new game and they all laughed at you and made fun of you before taking off without you, because they're also seven years old and don't think doing algebra is fun. I'm not sure what's elitist about getting five minutes of fame because you did something totally natural and normal to you (starting high school classes) and a rookie reporter for the local paper decided to release your story to the AP and the next thing you know you're appearing on the Today Show and getting an award at a $100K a plate dinner with the likes of President Carter and John Travolta looking on....only to suddenly have the entire national media turn on you and call you a failure because the placement didn't work out and you transferred to private school. I'm not sure what's elitist about being literally beaten and locked in a closet all day by the headmaster at the religious school that agreed to accept you and then spent every Sunday preaching to the congregation that you're the literal devil. And I'm not sure what's elitist about, when you finally make it to a school that gets you at age 12, lying about your age at the recommendation of the school officials, just so you won't get bullied anymore.

Maybe I'm passionate about this because I hope to save at least one child from what I experienced growing up.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But they can't be expected to behave as average kids in a standard classroom, right? Neither can those three standard deviations above the norm.

I'd agree with mostly agree, I think the stuff I was hitting at with your others comments wasn't strictly related to the classroom as you sorta delved into things outside it. I know how you feel about schooling and know that for traditional school was really bad for you. But just doing outside sports, etc isn't really just the type of socializing that I would suggest for a child who is frustrated at others not on their level. How would that child feel about a kid on their team that can't score goals as well as them or isn't grasping what the coach is saying. Socializing isn't merely being around other people. My first comment on the thread was addressing how the child feels about others because that bleeds into all sorts of parts. That frustration level could get even worse if they spend majority of their time in a program, maybe resenting or missing their like-peers, at least not without taking care to at least work on how you view others. That's was I was getting at although I know you agree with me I think we see socialization differently.

On the above quote the way I would look at it would not be solely on IQ. Behaving isn't quite how I would put it either. For example we couldn't expect a person who struggles with tests to behave the same, they may need more time or a more quiet space.

We are all much more than our IQ is how I would put it. I think DisneyOma's comment about discipline for the OP's son is a good one. Not that I'm agreeing with the discipline part but rather agreeing with what ways does the OP's son do to counteract that frustration level. Even if you put a child in a gifted program you'll find different levels there. How would you handle it in the classroom setting there too because generally you're still going to have the same concept of non-disruptive behavior, perhaps more so because of the understanding of how that could impact another student.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Something that really bothers me is the fact that people with this fundamental individual difference are automatically branded as elitist if they need something different.

For me I think I've been clear (although I don't know how much people remember about me with this topic) that I save certain phrases for very selective situations. When I say elitist I do not mean someone who has a fundamental individual difference.

In the academic setting an elitist is someone who treats others as though they are beneath them, others don't measure up to them, they aren't on their level so why waste time being around them. They may focus on a particular type of school because they view that as a measure of success or an assumption that only those of their kind would go there and going somewhere else is out of the question.

You can read ThreeHearts comment about their daughter. They didn't say elitist they said their child got entitled, bossy and demanding, and her social skills lacked. Because sometimes people assume that moving a child into a program track just fixes everything but you also have to take care with how that child is outside of the academics (for them it meant holding their child back eventually for the social skills to develop better).

For me it's not because you (general you not you personally) had such a high IQ and thus that makes you an elitist (and with respects to my sister I don't even know her IQ), it's how you treat others, view others and how you view yourself in terms of others that would make you that.

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

A large percentage of those who are of high intelligence fall on the Autism spectrum. This causes problems with socialization as people with ASD generally do not have a desire to be social and do not process social cues as thosw who are neurotypical do. Unfortunately up until about a decade ago, there were no programs to nurture the academic pursuits while also ensuring the children were receiving the resources needed to help them socialize properly. This is what happened to me and it took going off to University and taking psychology courses and meeting and having a relationship with a woman who was working with early childhood development and intervention, to realize areas where my personality was lacking. This woman actually actively socialized me as an adult. She had the patience of a Saint.

Children with ASD today have the opportunity to be socialized at an early age. There are even therapies and programs for those with severe ASD to get socialized to a degree.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

Timely thread! My oldest child has an IQ of 189. She is able to speak three languages (English, French, and Spanish, we're working on Mandarin next) fluently and she also is a MENSA member. In her free time, she plays both the violin and piano and has greatly excelled in both. She enjoys playing with our state's symphony during some shows, though she does not get to play as frequently as she would like because of tennis practice. We are making plans for her to graduate high school in a year or so at age 13, she is already taking AP Honors courses and has accumulated several semesters worth of college credit already. We joke that my middle son is a "normie". He has an IQ of 121, but is gifted in art and writing. He has already written a few chapter books and has a series going on planets with sustainable ecosystems for humanity to live on when we use up the resources on Earth (his formula that he worked on with his genius sister predicts this will occur sometime in May of 2098, the population will become too heavy to support the flat terrain of Earth by that point). I am lucky I was gifted with such smart children, because my husband on the other hand is as dumb as a box of rocks. He graduated medical school and now works as an internist even though I told him he should have taken his residency in plastic surgery (story for another day). He is lucky that he's handsome! Mom told me it was a bad idea to marry a male model, but I was young and also dumb!

I'm not sure where I was going with this...but I wish your son all the best! I would recommend touring schools locally and interviewing principals to get a feel for if they provide excellent enrichment opportunities for students. It is so important to foster their talents young. It may even be worth hiring out to have a private teacher give lessons and tailor curriculum to your son's abilities and talents. Even G&T, Honors, or IB programs do not have the ability to tailor to each child's education. Private teachers have the time and flexibility for that. Maybe check into a co-op?

Nevertheless, you have gotten a lot of great advice here, it's amazing how many high IQ individuals there are on even niche sites like this...smarty pants unite!

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm shocked at the posters here who don't think a child should be given the opportunity to actually LEARN something in school.
The point of school is to learn new things - some social things, some artistic things, and some purely academic things. ALL children should have the chance to learn ALL of those things. A profoundly gifted child will not learn anything academic in a standard classroom.
Most g/t programs I know of still have the kids with their same-age peers for specials, lunch, recess, etc. (Likewise, most special ed programs I know of work to get the kids in mainstream classes for specials and lunch as soon as it is safe for them to do so.)
Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the day is spent with same age peers, learning how to interact with everyone of all different abilities. But the time they are in the classroom should be a time to learn new things, at least some of the time.

As for adults not being able to choose who they spend time with... I don't follow that argument at all. I work with some astrophysicists and literal rocket scientists (I'm neither...) These people spend the majority of their days with other geniuses. Lots of research over decades show that spouses are usually very well matched intellectually. OF COURSE people need to be kind and respectful when interacting with anyone, but adults have far more autonomy to choose who they spend their time with than a 5 year old.

 

[Colleen27]

i cannot stress how important it is to keep this in mind when making academic decisions for your son. there needs to be equal if not greater attention and consideration given to social vs. academic development. the consequences of failing to do so can be beyond devastating.

Amen. And I think this is something a lot of gifted programs still get wrong - they prioritize academic stimulation at the expense of social and "soft" skills that are vital to success in real-world settings like work and family.

Fortunately though, the social development does NOT have to come from school. At all. My home away from home was the theater. For some profoundly gifted kids it's sports or space camp or whatever. Profoundly gifted tend to get along better with kids a few years older than them anyway, so being in classes with older kids isn't typically a problem. But having an outlet like sports or the arts or whatever, where they can be with a range of ages including both older and younger, is invaluable for social development.

I think the range of ages - not just older but younger as well - is really important. Like a lot of others on this thread, I tested as gifted as a kid at an almost identical level as the OP's son. And I did gravitate to older peers, which, in the absence of more appropriate outlets, led me to some bad situations because I wrongly interpreted being more advanced than my peers as being more mature. A poor approach to academic enrichment, basically just tossing me into classes for older kids, exacerbated that problem. My daughter, on the other hand, hasn't had the same problems and I think a lot of that comes from having a more socially-oriented enrichment experience that mixed being with older students when appropriate with individual enrichment and teaching-as-learning with younger peers. That and being involved in 4H, which is heavy on youth leadership and mentoring and opens a lot of space for exploring individual interests.

What ever happened to kids just attending their local neighborhood school? It seems like no schools are ever good enough anymore. Myself and my sister went to neighborhood public schools (gasp!), and tracked through the Gifted and Talented program all through elementary and middle school. We then went on to take AP Honors classes all through high school. A school rated as a C-.... It's not the schools, it's the parent/s and home environment that fosters success. Both of us scored high on the SATs, went on to get into fantastic universities, are highly successful in our careers, with 4 advanced degrees between the both of us. All from attending the lowly public neighborhood school rated at a C-.

I think a few things have happened. In my state, gifted education isn't mandated so it got slashed under budget pressures during the '01 and '08 recessions and never fully restored. So it has become less likely that the neighborhood public school will offer anything to meet the needs of advanced students. At the same time, college admissions have gotten a lot more competitive, so having access to more challenging programs has become more important in a student's long-term trajectory. And finally, I think there's increased recognition of the fact that ignoring the needs of advanced students is not the benign, "so what if they're bored" thing that it was thought of as when I was in school and that it can lead not only to wasted potential but to serious negative outcomes for the student as he matures.

I also think there's less willingness now to hide behind "it is the home and the parents" as a reason not to address the full range of academic and social needs at school, which is a net positive because that view more or less discards students who come from unstable homes, poverty, or even just parents who mean well but don't know how to meet their child's needs. Parents shouldn't be expected to know and do enough to take the place of professionals with advanced degrees, and kids shouldn't be at the mercy of their parents' ability to do so.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Timely thread! My oldest child has an IQ of 189. She is able to speak three languages (English, French, and Spanish, we're working on Mandarin next) fluently and she also is a MENSA member. In her free time, she plays both the violin and piano and has greatly excelled in both. She enjoys playing with our state's symphony during some shows, though she does not get to play as frequently as she would like because of tennis practice. We are making plans for her to graduate high school in a year or so at age 13, she is already taking AP Honors courses and has accumulated several semesters worth of college credit already. We joke that my middle son is a "normie". He has an IQ of 121, but is gifted in art and writing. He has already written a few chapter books and has a series going on planets with sustainable ecosystems for humanity to live on when we use up the resources on Earth (his formula that he worked on with his genius sister predicts this will occur sometime in May of 2098, the population will become too heavy to support the flat terrain of Earth by that point). I am lucky I was gifted with such smart children, because my husband on the other hand is as dumb as a box of rocks. He graduated medical school and now works as an internist even though I told him he should have taken his residency in plastic surgery (story for another day). He is lucky that he's handsome! Mom told me it was a bad idea to marry a male model, but I was young and also dumb!

I'm not sure where I was going with this...but I wish your son all the best! I would recommend touring schools locally and interviewing principals to get a feel for if they provide excellent enrichment opportunities for students. It is so important to foster their talents young. It may even be worth hiring out to have a private teacher give lessons and tailor curriculum to your son's abilities and talents. Even G&T, Honors, or IB programs do not have the ability to tailor to each child's education. Private teachers have the time and flexibility for that. Maybe check into a co-op?

Nevertheless, you have gotten a lot of great advice here, it's amazing how many high IQ individuals there are on even niche sites like this...smarty pants unite!

This had me actually laughing out loud, thank you!

I’m following this thread because I’m interested in hearing different opinions and experiences on this topic. I received a letter from my son’s school 2 days ago seeking permission to test him for the TAG program and I’m unsure how I feel about it. I asked the teacher what percentage of kindergartners were being selected to take this test and she said “just a few.” My husband and I were both in the TAG program when we were in school and, in discussing it, neither of us can pinpoint any concrete benefit we feel we directly gained from it. In my case, I do think it contributed to the perceptions and expectations placed on me (along with things like advanced classes, honor society, academic awards, etc.) that mostly just led to pressure and anxiety to always be high-achieving. I’d like to not put those pressures on my son, so I’m not sure what we’ll do if he scores high enough to get into the program. Not to mention, age 5 seems ridiculously young to determine and label someone as “gifted.” At the same time, every parent wants their kid to have the best opportunities, so…

 

[DLgal]

Let's look at this a different way. Suppose we were talking about a teenager with reasonable/average cognitive skills, but severe social disabilities. Someone extremely naive and trusting, who does not have the maturity to recognize when they're being exploited. Would your suggestion for protecting that person be to stick them in a kindergarten classroom? Same thing.

This is how my 2 sons are. At 16 and 18, they are socially closer to about 10/12. They are very naive and not ready to be out in the world alone yet. I was reminded of this recently when they were loading groceries in my car as I sat in the front seat and they were approached by a pretty aggressive panhandler. They didn't know what to do or say. I had to jump out and shoo the guy away.

The solution in real life is a LOT of supported/sheltered environments, yes. They aren't placed with kindergartners, but they ARE placed into classrooms with similarly functioning kids (in all grade levels). In addition, the schools work very hard at creating a culture of inclusion and support, and facilitate interactions (things like lunch clubs and collaboration with the athletes for campus activities) with typical peers so that the socially behind kids can have age appropriate interactions and learn some social skills. The speech therapists bring in typical peer "buddies" to practice conversations and social skills. In the Adult Transition program, a LOT of the curriculum is learning about social safety, internet/app safety, and there is a collaboration with the local PD on things like personal safety and using 911 (they literally call on to the emergency dispatch center and get to practice making 911 calls for different situations). It's a whole lot of differentiated instruction, but without taking the kids away from their age group peers.

 

[JLTraveling]

This is how my 2 sons are. At 16 and 18, they are socially closer to about 10/12. They are very naive and not ready to be out in the world alone yet. I was reminded of this recently when they were loading groceries in my car as I sat in the front seat and they were approached by a pretty aggressive panhandler. They didn't know what to do or say. I had to jump out and shoo the guy away.

The solution in real life is a LOT of supported/sheltered environments, yes. They aren't placed with kindergartners, but they ARE placed into classrooms with similarly functioning kids (in all grade levels). In addition, the schools work very hard at creating a culture of inclusion and support, and facilitate interactions (things like lunch clubs and collaboration with the athletes for campus activities) with typical peers so that the socially behind kids can have age appropriate interactions and learn some social skills. The speech therapists bring in typical peer "buddies" to practice conversations and social skills. In the Adult Transition program, a LOT of the curriculum is learning about social safety, internet/app safety, and there is a collaboration with the local PD on things like personal safety and using 911 (they literally call on to the emergency dispatch center and get to practice making 911 calls for different situations). It's a whole lot of differentiated instruction, but without taking the kids away from their age group peers.

And if they would provide classrooms for similarly functioning kids of all grade levels for the profoundly gifted, I'd jump all over that. My best school placement was a private school that operated that way. K-12, but each kid was tested each year and placed in the appropriate grade level classroom for each subject. So you might have a 10 year old in 5th grade social studies, 9th grade English, and 4th grade math or whatever. And all classes were lab-style, with real world applications for every subject. It was the perfect solution. Unfortunately, the school lost its funding and closed in the middle of the year.

I'm so glad that you've been able to find the right supports for your kids. It's tough for anyone who is outside the norm. And each kid's journey has to be so highly personalized. Schools as a whole are set up for "average," which is nothing more than a collection of data points, not people. The further you get from that statistical average, the harder it is to find the right setup. Sending your kids lots of luck and future happiness!

 

[JLTraveling]

Parents shouldn't be expected to know and do enough to take the place of professionals with advanced degrees, and kids shouldn't be at the mercy of their parents' ability to do so.

I agree with almost all of your post, but I did want to mention this. What I discovered in my own journey, and that of others I've spoken with, is that even professionals with advanced degrees are for the most part not equipped to handle children who are far outside the norm. I remember the special education coordinator for my local school district stating at one of my staffings, "What are the odds that any of us would have ever met a single child like her in a lifetime? Statistically, almost zero."

You can almost look at it like family doctors versus infectious disease specialists versus people who dedicate their entire career to studying one specific orphan disease. The general school personnel, even the ones with advanced degrees, are like family doctors. They may be very good at what they do, but they're generalists. They might refer a very differentiated child to a specialist who covers the entire district or even the entire state, and that person is more equipped to work further outside the norm. But when you get to IQs that are extremely high or extremely low, that's the orphan disease. Only 13 in 10,000 people have an IQ as high as the OP's son. Only one in a million has an IQ as high as mine.

So parents can either try to track down that very rare specialist who's spent their career figuring out what to do with that extremely rare child, or they can take on the journey themselves. In my case, I had highly educated, very involved parents who were very high IQ themselves. My mom's career was in mental health. So out of anyone, they should have been well-equipped. But they struggled, because the resources I needed didn't really exist. But over time, they learned and I learned and we muddled through and eventually got me to the right place--or at least, a place that worked for me.

The point of my rambling is that parents have to take on the journey. It's not right, and I feel so sad thinking about all the kids whose parents can't/won't. But ultimately, it's the parents who know their kid, it's the parents who see and interact with them every day from birth, and it's the parents who have to become their kids' strongest advocates. Because the professionals with degrees do the best they can, but they really don't know what to do with the kids who don't fit what they've been taught (and I say that as a professional with a degree).

 

[jrmasm]

Yeah, a strange question to ask the internet but here we are.

My 5yo son starts kindergarten next year. He's currently at a private, religious preschool that has k-8. He loves it there, has friends, etc. Here's the problem: our son was tested for gifted. He scored high. Please, don't think this is bragging - it's relevant details. His IQ came back 146 (which is 99.9%). Again, not bragging, it's an important detail. The school psychologist said because he scored so high, he NEEDS gifted enrichment. Of course, the school he's at... doesn't have a gifted program. When speaking with the early ed. coordinator, she said "teachers try to differentiate but..." yeah... not promising that he will get the enrichment he needs.

He struggles with behavior in pre-k. His teacher says he gets bored and is frustrated when kids aren't on his level.

He could go to public school - there's a brand new one. I have a few friends with kids there that are happy. They have a gifted program that he could be in. But, I'm worried about all the state testing, hw, and safety.

So, weigh in DISboards... what are you doing? Sending him to public where he WILL get the gifted enrichment he needs but have to do lots of state testing? Or, leave him at the private school he loves where he won't get the enrichment. Important to note: the religious element doesn't matter to us. We're split and can't decide.

Is your son 5 years old and in Pre K? When did he turn 5?

 

[PollyannaMom]

...But just doing outside sports, etc isn't really just the type of socializing that I would suggest for a child who is frustrated at others not on their level. How would that child feel about a kid on their team that can't score goals as well as them...

I think the idea is that they would be that kid for a change - to learn what it feels like to have someone be better than you at a particular skill, and realize that how you want them to treat you is how you should treat people who struggle with the things you find easy.

 

[DLgal]

And if they would provide classrooms for similarly functioning kids of all grade levels for the profoundly gifted, I'd jump all over that. My best school placement was a private school that operated that way. K-12, but each kid was tested each year and placed in the appropriate grade level classroom for each subject. So you might have a 10 year old in 5th grade social studies, 9th grade English, and 4th grade math or whatever. And all classes were lab-style, with real world applications for every subject. It was the perfect solution. Unfortunately, the school lost its funding and closed in the middle of the year.

I'm so glad that you've been able to find the right supports for your kids. It's tough for anyone who is outside the norm. And each kid's journey has to be so highly personalized. Schools as a whole are set up for "average," which is nothing more than a collection of data points, not people. The further you get from that statistical average, the harder it is to find the right setup. Sending your kids lots of luck and future happiness!

We spent a lot of time researching and made a lot of personal and financial sacrifices to live in a city that has a school district that actually cares about their special education programs and works very hard to give all kids what they need to thrive. This is also true for the "typical" kids. There is a lot of effort put on challenging kids and making sure they are given plenty of opportunity to thrive. It's a very highly coveted district for exactly this reason.

So this would be my advice to the OP: go where the good schools are. Move if you have to.

 

[PollyannaMom]

OP, I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help, as I find myself agreeing with posts both on the public side and the private side.

But I definitely second two things:

asking if you can go in and see the public school's gifted program in person, and

remembering that this is not a permanent decision. It can be changed if whatever you choose now stops working later on.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think the idea is that they would be that kid for a change - to learn what it feels like to have someone be better than you at a particular skill, and realize that how you want them to treat you is how you should treat people who struggle with the things you find easy.

I agree but I would also feel sorry for the child left to the wolves like that. When my sister got to Cornell she was no longer the top dog and it really affected her. Many students end up that way in certain schools or programs because they were used to being the special one and then they end up with people who are special too. And you're right they could be that kid so I guess turn it around and what if they were the ones that couldn't score a goal helping them deal with that would be good too.

I think what I was thinking was more like if you don't bring up the elephant in the room (the viewpoint the child already has of others) and just assuming the behavior adjusts just because they go into a gifted program that's not really going to address that problem. The PP had been discussing socialization in the form of outside school which I totally agree that does not just happen within the school.

And I absolutely agree the exposure is super helpful but I just also think giving the child the tools with that exposure should be done too. If the OP's son was not having these frustrations and was more about how they are doing in school on their own it would change the conversation because that particular social component would end up not being a problem. Not all highly gifted children are frustrated with other kids not being on their level. And even the ones that are do not all react the same way. For one poster their child became bossy, demanding, entitled, that does not mean all would react that way. DisneyOma brought up that her children were taught to create a story in their heads which may not work for someone else but is just something to add.

At least making the parents aware of what they can do to help with that is what I had initially said and would advocate for it in lieu of thinking a potential behavior fix primarily occurs by putting the kid with non-gifted other kids in some other setting.

 

[DLgal]

I agree with almost all of your post, but I did want to mention this. What I discovered in my own journey, and that of others I've spoken with, is that even professionals with advanced degrees are for the most part not equipped to handle children who are far outside the norm. I remember the special education coordinator for my local school district stating at one of my staffings, "What are the odds that any of us would have ever met a single child like her in a lifetime? Statistically, almost zero."

You can almost look at it like family doctors versus infectious disease specialists versus people who dedicate their entire career to studying one specific orphan disease. The general school personnel, even the ones with advanced degrees, are like family doctors. They may be very good at what they do, but they're generalists. They might refer a very differentiated child to a specialist who covers the entire district or even the entire state, and that person is more equipped to work further outside the norm. But when you get to IQs that are extremely high or extremely low, that's the orphan disease. Only 13 in 10,000 people have an IQ as high as the OP's son. Only one in a million has an IQ as high as mine.

So parents can either try to track down that very rare specialist who's spent their career figuring out what to do with that extremely rare child, or they can take on the journey themselves. In my case, I had highly educated, very involved parents who were very high IQ themselves. My mom's career was in mental health. So out of anyone, they should have been well-equipped. But they struggled, because the resources I needed didn't really exist. But over time, they learned and I learned and we muddled through and eventually got me to the right place--or at least, a place that worked for me.

The point of my rambling is that parents have to take on the journey. It's not right, and I feel so sad thinking about all the kids whose parents can't/won't. But ultimately, it's the parents who know their kid, it's the parents who see and interact with them every day from birth, and it's the parents who have to become their kids' strongest advocates. Because the professionals with degrees do the best they can, but they really don't know what to do with the kids who don't fit what they've been taught (and I say that as a professional with a degree).

I agree with you 100%.

I think it also needs to be said, school is just ONE PART of a child/person's life. Parents are responsible for creating good people to send out into society. Parents need to take on a LOT of responsibility at home when they have a child, whether that child is typical or outside of average. It doesn't matter at the end of the day how intelligent a child is, the home environment and life lessons and behavior taught by parents are as important as the academic stuff taught at school. It is an unfortunate reality that some kids have bad parents and those kids struggle in life because of it.

The best advice I can give when dealing with a student who needs something extra at school, for whatever reason: be firm in what your kid needs, be assertive, but be kind and work together as a TEAM with the school staff. Don't go looking to fight with anyone or for anything. If you have to fight to be heard, your child is at the wrong place.

 

[Threehearts]

I've read through this by now, very long thread. So my daughter tested at the genius level but she was not a genius with social skills. She did end up in a very elitist private school for the very highly gifted. The teacher to student ratio was 1:2. In first grade, she was taking field trips to the Guggenheim, became a huge fan of opera and was reading at an extremely high level. It is true that she had a lot in common with the kids in the private school but those kids weren't experiencing the way life really is. The kids were treated like precious gems and naturally they believed that to be true.

I remember a defining moment when a new neighbor brought her 2 similarly aged kids over to meet my child. My daughter took over the playtime, organized the children into different jobs and announced that she was the boss. The kids went home and the new neighbor told all the other mothers and that was the end of neighborhood playmates.

Now my genius daughter is glad she did not continue in that elite academy. She was not suicidal or depressed mixing with same age children in the public school. She did have trouble making friends at first but she learned give and take and that others will treat you as you treat them. That lesson was a life lesson.

As we can see on this thread, each parent and child will have different experiences. I only have mine to relate. Although my child did not test to be on the spectrum, I do think that ASD testing can be highly valuable. Greater than 75% of my daughter's highly gifted school did have Asperger's by what the parents told me. I will say that when my daughter was admitted to MENSA, the psychologist told us,"there's a reason why these brilliant kids turn into adults who carry pen protectors in their shirt pockets." He was pretty much telling us that our kid was going to have few friends but would be a brilliant mind. What a ridiculous box to put a small child in.

I'm so sorry that some posters were treated abusively or did not receive a good education. Those stories are just awful. I can only say that easing up on an extremely narrow educational program worked best for our child. Her imagination flourished when previously, pretend play was "for little kids." She helped start a community garden at her school and learned to relate appropriately with her peers. She had friends from all walks of life and learned that every child has special gifts, hers no more special than theirs.

 

[JLTraveling]

If you have to fight to be heard, your child is at the wrong place.

This. My entire childhood was a fight to be heard. And my parents kept trying different placements in an effort to find a place where we didn't have to fight. I distinctly remember the special education coordinator for our district asking me, when I was seven, what I wanted to be when I grew up. I listed off four or five different things: astronaut, surgeon, and a couple more. She said, "You can't do all that. It's too much school." I said, "If you let me get started, I can." I didn't mean it in a snotty way at all. Just that I had huge dreams and they all involved a lot of studying, and all I wanted from them was the opportunity to do all that studying.

I would also caution all parents (not addressing this to you at all, I know you already know it): Be really careful with those professionals with advanced degrees. I was seven when I started taking high school classes. I had already taught myself algebra, but I hated rote memorization so I hadn't bothered to learn the multiplication tables (I could multiply, just not rattle off the tables on demand). The school system hired a "math mentor" for me to fill in the gaps. The very first day, she said, "I don't know who told you that you were gifted, but you're definitely not gifted in math."

I took it to heart. I gave up my dreams of being an astronaut or a surgeon. I only made it through trig in high school, then I tested out of basic math in college. The only math class I took after that was one stats class that was required for my degree (and got 100%, but that didn't matter).

Years later, I found myself doing freelance curriculum development, and I had to write a lesson plan on Euclid's Geometry. I was terrified. But as I got into it, I realized that I understood it perfectly. I decided to test the theory. I got my engineer father to teach me calculus over a weekend, and then I signed up for astrophysics. I ended up earning a certificate in astrophysics through MIT, with a 97 average. Not gifted in math, my foot. But I wasted all those years believing I was a math dummy. Don't let the professionals with degrees do that to your kids, please.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

"I don't know who told you that you were gifted, but you're definitely not gifted in math."

I took it to heart. I gave up my dreams of being an astronaut or a surgeon. I only made it through trig in high school, then I tested out of basic math in college. The only math class I took after that was one stats class that was required for my degree (and got 100%, but that didn't matter).

That would have been a good example for helping support you. Understand your strengths and weaknesses or just vetting out if a way you're being taught isn't working for you. It's so very understandable that we get defeatist when we are not good at something or good at the way others see it. I wouldn't say it's related to professionals with degrees because everyone is capable of that. A parent can easily say that to a kid. A classmate can easily say that to a kid. But if we support the kids it would go a long way. The fact that you took that so hard would be exactly why I would want that 5 year old to get the support with respects to peers. Like I said in my other comment when my sister got to Cornell no longer was top dog and it affected her so much because she was so used to people telling her how smart she was, how good at school she was that other students easily pointed out the holes in comparison to her. It got to her so much she switched from civil engineering which she had been in years for and had gone to Cornell for to english. Now she had other issues too but that hit her like a mack truck being told she wasn't as good as she had thought.