Why does everyone want their kids to move up?

[KT2038]

I wasn't saying that everyone wanted their kids to move up, or even down. I was just wondering as it has become a focus on each and every cruise. I do not have kids of my own, and when I'm not onboard as a YA Counselor I work as a teacher at a school for 3-14 year olds. Obviously these kids are in different classrooms but they share a play space and it seems to work well. I wasn't criticising anyone I simply wondered. I cannot help to effect change without asking what the issues are. Once we are aware of things then we can start to discuss with senior management to change things.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Just because you think you should've been held back (because your mom saw school as free daycare) doesn't mean that is the right decision for others.

On the other hand, based my personal experience (twice - once with my sister, and once with my own child), those "younger than others in the same grade" should be held back. My sister was (she spent 2 years in kindergarten), and it was the best thing for her. My son wasn't, and I now wish we had done it. I, too, felt that he was "smarter than the average 5 year old" when he was 4. He had a September birthday, close to the cut off date, and we could have delayed his starting school, but didn't. Intellectually, he was well prepared for school, but socially, not so much. Now, as an adult, he basically has one friend, and no social life.

But he's real smart.

 

[Ofinn]

I wasn't saying that everyone wanted their kids to move up, or even down. I was just wondering as it has become a focus on each and every cruise. I do not have kids of my own, and when I'm not onboard as a YA Counselor I work as a teacher at a school for 3-14 year olds. Obviously these kids are in different classrooms but they share a play space and it seems to work well. I wasn't criticising anyone I simply wondered. I cannot help to effect change without asking what the issues are. Once we are aware of things then we can start to discuss with senior management to change things.

Thank you for taking an interest. I have a feeling my son wont want to leave the Edge when hes 14. He loves it. I just wanted to make a point that its not necessarily the parents wanting their kids to grow up. They just want their kids to have fun so they can have fun. I do realize the challenges of tying to do activities for such a wide age range.

 

[Bree]

My DD was bored stiff in the Fantasy club/lab on our first cruise. She'd show up for one particular activity and it wouldn't happen or it would be changed to something else. This past November she was 10yo and went to Edge on the Magic. She had a blast and loved being there. It's not always about the parents. Kids all have different personalities, likes/dislikes and maturity levels and sometimes moving them up to the next level helps them have a better cruise experience.

 

[hrhdhd]

Just because you think you should've been held back (because your mom saw school as free daycare) doesn't mean that is the right decision for others. I was a SAHM even after my kids were in school and I (along with the school) carefully evaluated her readiness. She actually had the best attention span of any child in her class! And she was socially and emotionally ready and mature enough for her age. She had been in preschool so she was prepared. She graduated high school with nearly a 4.0 and a member of National Honor Society. She is also a member of the Honor Society at her college as well. But thanks for questioning our decision. She has done just fine!!

You are taking bumbershoot's response way too personally. She was discussing her own situation, not yours or your daughter's.

 

[jcemom]

I wasn't saying that everyone wanted their kids to move up, or even down. I was just wondering as it has become a focus on each and every cruise. I do not have kids of my own, and when I'm not onboard as a YA Counselor I work as a teacher at a school for 3-14 year olds. Obviously these kids are in different classrooms but they share a play space and it seems to work well. I wasn't criticising anyone I simply wondered. I cannot help to effect change without asking what the issues are. Once we are aware of things then we can start to discuss with senior management to change things.

Thumbs up!

On the other hand, based my personal experience (twice - once with my sister, and once with my own child), those "younger than others in the same grade" should be held back. My sister was (she spent 2 years in kindergarten), and it was the best thing for her. My son wasn't, and I now wish we had done it. I, too, felt that he was "smarter than the average 5 year old" when he was 4. He had a September birthday, close to the cut off date, and we could have delayed his starting school, but didn't. Intellectually, he was well prepared for school, but socially, not so much. Now, as an adult, he basically has one friend, and no social life.

But he's real smart.

Are you sure that doesn't have more to do with personality than the age he started school? My older son has only a couple of friends and he started kindgergarten at 5 1/2. My younger son has a lot of friends and he started kindgergarten at 5 1/2. My older son's best friend since first grade has only a few friends and he started kindergarten at 6 1/4. My 7 year old niece has a lot of friends and she started kindergarten at 4 3/4. My DD has one best friend and quite a few other friends and she has never been to school. We've homeschooled her entire life, though she has participated in activities like gymnastics, dance, and theater since she was 3.

DD has met other kids to play with in the pool at Disney since she was 2 years old. She just "finds" people. My older DS could often be found sitting off to the side, alone or with his one friend, at birthday parties of classmates, all of whom he knew well (yes, it was sad, and my DH is the same way). My middle DS was always, well, in the middle, not as outgoing as DD but far more outgoing than older DS. They just have different personalities. (Which is also why DCL could probably never "win" with the youth club configurations no matter what they do, because all kids are different and nothing is going to work for everyone.)

I started school at age 5 and had loads of friends. My husband started at 5 1/2 and had only a few friends.

Some people are just more outgoing than others, more self-confident, some are shy while others are not. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the age they start school. I could have held older DS out of kindergarten until he was 6 1/2, or 7 1/2 and it wouldn't have made a difference. I'm certain of that.

 

[lbgraves]

People are taking about 3-10 in the club. It's listed as 3-12! As a mom of a 3 year old, that makes me very nervous. We didn't use the child care options at all last time as she was newly 3. We will see what happens when she's just a couple weeks shy of 4.

I feel like if there was a break in the lab/club age range, you'd have fewer people trying to circumvent the age ranges. Maybe 3-6, 7-10, 11-14, 15-17. That also more closely mirrors school breaks in the US.

When we first cruised on DCL the club and lab were further divided, and it was strictly enforced. The age groups were 3-4, 5-7, 8-9 and 10-12. When my 4 yo didn't want to go to the OC when the CM asked her if she wanted to join in the fun when I dropped my 6 yo off, the CM said that she would get permission for her to be with her brother if that would help. We didn't take her up on the offer. DD never really liked the clubs until she was 11 and only went with friends while the parents all went to Palo together before that.

On the other hand, based my personal experience (twice - once with my sister, and once with my own child), those "younger than others in the same grade" should be held back. ....

DD has a September bday and is one of the youngest of the ages who are supposed to be in her grade level. However, we decided we were not going to hold her back because of the popular practice to hold kids back just so they will have advantages over others in their class. I've heard parents talk about this for both academic and athletic reasons. She ended up being 2 years younger than several of her classmates in Kindergarten due to this. Regarding how it affects them, some people just don't have a disposition that makes them social. My son was one of the oldest in his class due to his bday. He wasn't able to identify with most of the kids, and now in HS he associates with upperclassmen who are more serious about their academics.

 

[momof2n2]

These are always interesting threads. Cruise lines can't really win! I'm planning an NCL cruise and they have very small age groups and are very strict. Parents there aren't happy when siblings can't be together. The only reason we are doing NCL exactly when we are doing it is my six kids can pair up into three groups each with a buddy. A few weeks either way (before or after birthdays) and we'd be very unhappy (and likely wouldn't have booked). I love the large age span on DCL of 3-12, but admit we only did a four-night cruise. Maybe on a longer one my kids would have complained?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Are you sure that doesn't have more to do with personality than the age he started school?

hold kids back just so they will have advantages over others in their class.

Yes, it certainly could be that he's shyer than others. Or not. As my birthday and his are the same I was started in kindergarten when I was 4 (since the date was actually before the cut off date back then). I was always out of step with my "peers" in my grade. I hung out with the younger kids all the time from elementary school onward.

I believe, NOW, that it would have been more beneficial for my child to start later. Not to give him an "advantage" of any sort, but just to equalize the playing field a bit.

But, then, as a parent, you always second guess your choices.

 

[Hundredacre]

Very high standards for dcl youth programs on this thread!! Don't you ever want to just tell the kids to stop complaining?! We don't want to hear it! You are overpriviledged just being on this cruise!! Thats what we say. But we are old school. One other thing to consider is that kids are using this a power thing to control their parents. Having grown up in a large family and now raising one of my own, I do not underestimate children. I know when I was about 8 and my parents dropped me off at the kids thing at the Contemporary Resort back in the early 80s so they could go out, I told them I hated it even though I liked it. I hated being left behind. I was spoiled. I am not saying that is the case of people's children on this thread, I am just saying that's my personal experience.

 

[jcemom]

But, then, as a parent, you always second guess your choices.

That is SO true! I always have to remind myself that I am not the only parent out there second guessing and doubting my choices. Parenting is hard lol.

 

[Sytrace]

I wasn't saying that everyone wanted their kids to move up, or even down. I was just wondering as it has become a focus on each and every cruise. I do not have kids of my own, and when I'm not onboard as a YA Counselor I work as a teacher at a school for 3-14 year olds. Obviously these kids are in different classrooms but they share a play space and it seems to work well. I wasn't criticising anyone I simply wondered. I cannot help to effect change without asking what the issues are. Once we are aware of things then we can start to discuss with senior management to change things.

The title of your thread says that exactly: Why does everyone want their kids to move up?

I stated in the other thread that my concerns were focused mainly on the child molestation issues that have happened on cruise lines in recent years and that would be my reasoning behind wanting my newly 13 year son to be able to attend Vibe with his newly 14 year old sister. The whole safety in numbers thing.

When you told me in the other thread that you only allow close to 13 year olds to go to Vibe if there was a sibling of that age in attendance I accepted that and began to work out an arrangement with my kids to make sure that they are safe as that is not DCL's responsibility. As a parent, I accept this responsibility.

In the next couple of posts though, there was another who mentioned that her child/friends kid...whatever, who was as far from 14 as you can get, was allowed in.
For me the conflicting rules and regulations that are clearly not as enforced by all with DCL is frustrating. From what I am reading, you are trying to enforce the rules and that is awesome. But it appears that in some circumstances, the rules aren't being adhered to and that is where the confusion sets in by new cruisers who come here to ask questions about the clubs. In that one thread alone, there are many conflicting answers.

Perhaps, it looks good in theory and there are parents who will accept that their kids cannot "age up" into the clubs and never question it (me).
But then there are those who try to bribe and encourage their kids to throw hissy fits to get their way. (Not me)

My bottom line is that my kids have a good time and are safe while doing so.

 

[gotomu212]

For us the Open Houses weren't a good fit and threw off a lot of the dynamic in the spaces. My son was happy in the Lab with some of the older activities, but if there was an OH in the Club all the little ones came over and the space became a daycare (his words). He was even more disappointed when the OH in the Lab pushed him over into the Club side.

I've also noticed for our friends and family that the boys were more bored than the girls with the Lab. I absolutely hate gender stereotyping but we heard more complaints from the 9-10 year old boys at our table than my nieces. My nieces liked cooking and drawing but the boys were really over it. (I think Disney struggles with the boys demographic already so I get that) but at 10 they wanted to play video games, basketball, and watch non-animated movies and the Lab Star Wars stuff was overrun by "little kids".

 

[KT2038]

I'm just stating the rules. The ones that I am trained to tell guests. That a certain space is for a particular age group. A child may move up to the next age group if they are within a few months of their birthday, have a signed permission slip and it helps to have a sibling in that space. This is true for edge and vibe. A child will not be accepted into the club/lab until they are 3. I know that we try and stick by the rules on my ship. Sometimes in very quiet sailings they may allow a child just turned 10 or 13 up. It just depends on the numbers of kids and the ages of the kids in each space.

 

[Ofinn]

For us the Open Houses weren't a good fit and threw off a lot of the dynamic in the spaces. My son was happy in the Lab with some of the older activities, but if there was an OH in the Club all the little ones came over and the space became a daycare (his words). He was even more disappointed when the OH in the Lab pushed him over into the Club side.

I've also noticed for our friends and family that the boys were more bored than the girls with the Lab. I absolutely hate gender stereotyping but we heard more complaints from the 9-10 year old boys at our table than my nieces. My nieces liked cooking and drawing but the boys were really over it. (I think Disney struggles with the boys demographic already so I get that) but at 10 they wanted to play video games, basketball, and watch non-animated movies and the Lab Star Wars stuff was overrun by "little kids".

I don't think there is any such thing as gender stereotyping. Boys and girls are different, very different.

 

[VbChristy]

People are taking about 3-10 in the club. It's listed as 3-12! As a mom of a 3 year old, that makes me very nervous. We didn't use the child care options at all last time as she was newly 3. We will see what happens when she's just a couple weeks shy of 4.

I feel like if there was a break in the lab/club age range, you'd have fewer people trying to circumvent the age ranges. Maybe 3-6, 7-10, 11-14, 15-17. That also more closely mirrors school breaks in the US.

I agree completely. They do this for the families with multiple kids so they can be together. What about the families that have one kid. I don't really want my 3 year old in a club with 10 and 12 year kids. I think Disney does that part wrong!

 

[belac]

I've also noticed for our friends and family that the boys were more bored than the girls with the Lab. I absolutely hate gender stereotyping but we heard more complaints from the 9-10 year old boys at our table than my nieces. My nieces liked cooking and drawing but the boys were really over it. (I think Disney struggles with the boys demographic already so I get that) but at 10 they wanted to play video games, basketball, and watch non-animated movies and the Lab Star Wars stuff was overrun by "little kids".

As a mom of a boy I come across this all the time with clothing so it is not just DCL. Just walk into a children's clothing store, all the boy stuff is in back, in the corner, what little they have. Even when there appears to be a larger collection, i.e. Target, the girls section is almost double there too. It is just the way it is, in my personal experiences.
However I have a son that loves cooking and art, so no complaints when that's on the Navigators for the Lab. He only shows up for that and all else he has lost interest, so we don't force him to go, unless it is for Palo, yes it is a shot in the dark, but he realizes it's for a short time and finds something to do.

 

[Ofinn]

I'm just stating the rules. The ones that I am trained to tell guests. That a certain space is for a particular age group. A child may move up to the next age group if they are within a few months of their birthday, have a signed permission slip and it helps to have a sibling in that space. This is true for edge and vibe. A child will not be accepted into the club/lab until they are 3. I know that we try and stick by the rules on my ship. Sometimes in very quiet sailings they may allow a child just turned 10 or 13 up. It just depends on the numbers of kids and the ages of the kids in each space.

In our 11 cruises in the last four years Ive never had a problem moving up one of my kids to the Edge. I did not have to plead cry, beg or get my child to cry like you said parents do. I have honestly never seen any of this. The cms acted like it was no big deal., and these were mostly sold out sailings.I was also told they very rarely have to deny a 10 year old into the Edge. My feeling is the only reason the age is 11-14 is because the kids can come and go as they please. Thats why they have you sigh a waiver for a ten year old.

 

[KT2038]

In our 11 cruises in the last four years Ive never had a problem moving up one of my kids to the Edge. I did not have to plead cry, beg or get my child to cry like you said parents do. I have honestly never seen any of this. The cms acted like it was no big deal., and these were mostly sold out sailings.I was also told they very rarely have to deny a 10 year old into the Edge. My feeling is the only reason the age is 11-14 is because the kids can come and go as they please. Thats why they have you sigh a waiver for a ten year old.

It is no big deal if it happens in the right way. we want your childen to have a magical cruise and we will do what we can to make that happen.