Ya Hooo, DIS breaks $20.00

[Lizardbeth61]

I can make no comments about where the stock will go etc. I own stock and plan to hold it out of loyalty whether or not it's a good investment. However, I am perplexed by all this talk of Disney ticking people off. Exactly how are they doing that? We were there in Feb of this year and again in May. I was in no way "ticked" off. Are we talking about closings of 8 and 9 pm? Please. How much park can you do in a day anyway? And besides, there's so much to do that isn't parks. So again I ask, what exactly is Disney doingn to tick off it's clients besides raise ticket prices by $2.00 (a tragedy???) and maybe not be open until midnight?

Sorry, but I just see the company trying to ride out what is a very difficult time for everyone.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"How does this work with theme parks exactly. When you buy a pass online...either single, multi, or annual it does not have a specific date to use by. "

I agree that it's not an exact science,but I think it's a good indicator. When I purchase things on-line, I use my credit card and plan it so that I don't actually take the money out of my pocket for at least 45 days. I don't think I'm the only one who does this. When it comes to something like park passes, I'm not going to take money out of my pocket any sooner then I have too. I won't buy several hundred dollars worth of passes 4,5,6 months in advance. Again,I don't think I'm the only one who does this. I think it's pretty safe to assume that passes bought on-line today will be used within two months. That should be a close enough estimate for Disney to plan staffing & other things.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
[B I think it's pretty safe to assume that passes bought on-line today will be used within two months. That should be a close enough estimate for Disney to plan staffing & other things. [/B]

So you saying that Disney just assumes what every passes are bought are used in two months? I still don't see how you plan hours and shows for such a thing. What happen if they all come the same week? Kind of throws off the whole scheduled? I think you might be stretching the benefits of this in use with theme parks.

Doesn't waiting to the last minute (or month) in your case defeat the whole purpose of buying early to save money?

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Doesn't waiting to the last minute (or month) in your case defeat the whole purpose of buying early to save money?"

I don't see how. The on-line discount is there regardless of when I buy. If the discount had a variable that was proportional to how early I purchased,then yes,I would buy much earlier.

As for Disney's ability to plan, I repeat,it's not an exact science, but using certain assumptions that I believe are fairly reasonable has to give them a better indication of what to do then simply relying on daily ticket sales.

 

[Golter]

Viking,
I'm agree. Predicting attendence is not an exact science, but it is a science. They use data such as hotel bookings, advanced ticket purchases, airline reservations, historical data, and can come up with an accurate prediction.

Europa:
If they tick you off so much, dont go. I disagree that "they tick off the very large portion who plan ahead", most of us are still happy campers and would rather be at WDW than anyother place on earth, even if we "only" got 11 hours in the park today.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Golter
Europa:
If they tick you off so much, dont go. I disagree that "they tick off the very large portion who plan ahead", most of us are still happy campers and would rather be at WDW than anyother place on earth, even if we "only" got 11 hours in the park today.

I have voted with my wallet...thanks Dad for the advice. Seems that maybe I'm not alone either. You know one day Disney is going to cut something, do something that effects you. When that happen I hope that we don't see you arouind here "complaning".


For those of you new to the scene here and have not been around for the past 3 years or so while we laid out all of the current problems with Disney I'll give you a short list.

- Attractions that are shut down and remain closed.

- Cheap attractions being put in place to throw the complaining public a bone.

-Promised attraction never being built. Or if they are built they do not even come close to the Disney standard.

-Hours being cut even before the "downturn " in the economy the Eisner like to blame things own.

-Shows being cut, number of shows happening cut.

-Ticket prices continue to rise. While the value of them continues to fall

-Disney craping on their best customers by going from a free Discount system (MK Club) to a paid (Disney club) to letting a bank determine who their loyal customers are.

-"Character Caravan" -enough said.

- Rising prices of food in the parks while the quality and the quantity of the item goes down. (the famous 1 less chicken finger in the combo meal) That is not the only example.

Disney company as a whole

- 1/2 billion dollars wasted on Fox Family (old cartoons)

- Bought ABC with no idea how to run a TV network and ran into the ground...currently 4th place network.

- Wasted millions in Go.com (Internet)

-Wasting millions each year on crappy movies like Pearl harbor, Bad company, treasure planet.

- Currently they are not building quality new material for the future. What happens when the well dries of up all of the old classic movies? Treasure planet and The Emperors new grove are not going to continue to bring in money like Snow White has.

- Bought two sports teams and are lost millions in the process.

-26 billion dollars in debt.

- Eisner idea of Synergy is making bad movies about 30 year old theme park attractions. Come on guys have you ran out of ideas?


Like I said this is a short list and may of the other regulars can add to it. Basically a lot of see these things a serious problems with Disney that are going to have an effect for many years to come.

 

[blackshirt]

Europa:
If they tick you off so much, dont go. I disagree that "they tick off the very large portion who plan ahead", most of us are still happy campers and would rather be at WDW than anyother place on earth, even if we "only" got 11 hours in the park today. [/B][/QUOTE]
This is exactly the point that many posters have been making for months if not years, that Disney's cutbacks and closings combined with precious few new offerings has ticked off thousands of families who have, in fact, decided to go elsewhere.
I personally made three trips from December 2001 thru July 2002 with the emphasis on WDW. Last trip in April of 2003, we went to MK once with the remainder at Seaworld, US,IOA, and Wet and Wild. We missed the other 3 Disney parks, but not to the point of paying large amounts of money for the same rides minus a few as well as reduced hours. I don't think it unreasonable to expect something major to be added to each park every four years.

 

[KNWVIKING]

What was promised ? Is "promised" a business term ? Binding,legal,contractual ? Just curious.

Hours of operation: They were at their peek a few years ago. What were they before that ? something less then peek I would assume. So hours increased as crowds did,then decreased as crowds decreased, maybe,just maybe, they'll increase again.

Attractions have been shut down,others have opened. Some were closed because people are idiots- Skyway comes to mind.

Cheap attractions: What in Walt's Fantasyland area isn't a cheap attraction ? Dumbo,Tea Cups, Merry go Round ? And like you said, they were ADDED rides, not replacement rides. Carpets may not be an E-ride, but what did it replace... open pavement ?

Ticket price increases ? Yeah,that's never happened anywhere else. And to date, I still think they are a great value.

Movies, sure there have been some clunkers, as well as winners. Guess Walt never produced a loser.

 

[blackshirt]

Europa, I agree with your previous post with 2 minor disagreements as regards the actual numbers.
I think Disney paid close to 5 billion For Fox Family.(Analysts today say it is worth 10% to 15% of that figure)
I also think that Disney lost several billion on GO.com.
Can you imagine what could have been done at WDW with even one of those billions? It makes me want to cry.

 

[Golter]

Europa:
I'm not trying to be anyone's dad, sorry if I got preachy. I just see a better tomorrow for DIS and WDW. Yes, there have been problems in the recent past. But there have also been a lot go right and will continue to go right. This discussion has been about DIS stock price. From Wall Street's perspective, DIS is in good shape. I truly believe you will see ABC continue to improve, theme parks will continue to improve, (New attractions coming: MS, Mickey's Philharmagic, Mount Everest..Hardly bones, and more will follow.), movies have done well as of late(Lizzie, Holes, Nemo) and POC looks to be a cant miss. Economy is starting to turn and people will start putting more money back into the budget for entertainment. If stock does not hit 25 by years end, I eat crow, but I dont think that will be the case.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by blackshirt
Europa, I agree with your previous post with 2 minor disagreements as regards the actual numbers.
I think Disney paid close to 5 billion For Fox Family.(Analysts today say it is worth 10% to 15% of that figure)
I also think that Disney lost several billion on GO.com.
Can you imagine what could have been done at WDW with even one of those billions? It makes me want to cry.

Yes your right...did not have the numbers right in front of me....

Fox Family - 3 billion in cash and 2.3 billion in debt.

Go.com is hard to read...they lost money every year so the total could very well be near there.


Other issues from posters...

Hours - They were not at their peek a few years ago they were at a Plateau for close to 20 years. So what happened what went wrong...why did the people stop coming? Remember hours/fireworks/parades/ were being cut before 9-11.

-Promise- no its not a legal term and you know that. It still causes a negative image.

-Closed attractions- ok they close 10 you get 2 new ones every 4 years. That will keep the crowds coming back.

- Yes Ticket prices increase but most business do not decrease the value of those tickets. You may see them as a good value but seems to me that many people no longer see them as such.

-Movies -From what recall.....Fantasia was the only movie that Walt made that really never turned a profit (Until the 90's)

Nemo is a Pixar movie and Disney is in danger of losing that.

POTC -there is NO indication that movie will make money. In fact quite a few people are saying it will sink.

They lost the contract with Lizzie...there goes that "money maker" - if you can call it that.

 

[Golter]

2 questions:

What 10 Attractions were closed, and what two attractions in the past 4 years are you talking about?

What attractions were "promised" and who promised them?

 

[KNWVIKING]

"They lost the contract with Lizzie...there goes that "money maker" "

I wouldn't say they "lost" her contract. They chose not to give her 5 mil, she chose not to accept 4 mil. She absolutely made money for Disney, we'll have to wait and see what she can do on her own. But Disney "made" her a star, they can do it again with some other cute blonde,(she is blonde,right??).

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Golter
2 questions:

What 10 Attractions were closed, and what two attractions in the past 4 years are you talking about?

What attractions were "promised" and who promised them?

Lets see here...
Skyway, Swan Boats, COP, Timekeeper, 20,000 Leagues, Hunchback Show, Horizons, Keel Boats, The Lion King(MK), Parade in Epcot, I know there are more..but that is off the top of my head. Grated not all of these are of the E-Ticket fame.


As far as the every 4 years. When was Horizons torn down? Is MS open yet? When are they predicting the opening of Everest? That kind of turn around time is just not acceptable

Beastly kingdom was a promised land for AK. 20,000 leagues was supposed to be replaced. Heck any attraction that closes down indirectly implies that it will be replaced. Or else the customer is losing value for their tickets.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
"T But Disney "made" her a star, they can do it again with some other cute blonde,(she is blonde,right??).

Heck if that is the case then why aren't they churning them out like a factory. Seems so easy. Wait that is just how they see their movie business.

 

[crusader]

So what happened what went wrong...why did the people stop coming?

They probably couldn't justify the expense in consideration of the other priorities at hand - buying that SUV, upgrading to a grandious lifestyle, vying for success and continuing to salivate over the stock market. Why waste thousands at WDW when you've already been there - done that.

 

[Golter]

When Did Disney promise beastly Kingdom? All I heard were rumors.

The attractions that you named, most of them needed to go, and many of them were just impractical to keep.

Skyway - Dated and unsafe.
Swan Boats - Minor Attraction at best
COP - Still opened from time-to-Time
Timekeeper - Ditto
20,000 Leagues - Closed a long time ago, (I'll give you this one)
Hunchback Show - I'll give you this one as well.
Horizons - Replaced by MS
Keel Boats- Minor Attraction at best
The Lion King(MK) - replaced by Philharmagic
Parade in Epcot - Started with Millenium Celebration, there hasn't been a parade at EPCOT since and probably wont be one again for a while.
You forgot Mr. Toads - Replaced by Pooh.

Lets See What's New:
AK (Many of your examples predate AK)
MS (Coming 03)
Pooh
Alladin
Millionaire
Buzz
Fantasmic
Primeval
One Man's Dream
Philharmagic (Coming 03)
RnR coaster
A couple of New Parades


Its a not even close, more has been added than taken away. And what replaced old attractions are far better than what was there.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Golter
When Did Disney promise beastly Kingdom? All I heard were rumors.

Some one help me out here...it was a book of somesort released by Disney... I forget off the top of my head.

The attractions that you named, most of them needed to go, and many of them were just impractical to keep.

You forgot Mr. Toads - Replaced by Pooh.

I tried not to bring up attractions that had a direct replacement as many of yours were. I don't have a problem when they replace an attraction with something new. Its not my fault if an attraction is impractical to keep. What you see as a minor attraction may be someperson best memory of Disney. If they remove it it should be replaced. Quite a few people on the boards think that Disney is falling behind in keeping the parks updated with new attractions. This is going to effect Disney for a long time to come. The parks are Disney's bread and butter and when they start to focus on TV, sports teams and old cartoons instead of putting that money into their livelihood... many people see that as dumb. If you can't see how much better Disney would be without these dumb get rich quick scams by Eisner then you will never see the light. Disney is losing or has lost creativity in almost every aspect of its business. It's like Disney has been shot in the liver...sure its not dying today or tomorrow but if they don't do something about it they are going to bleed to death.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"It's like Disney has been shot in the liver...sure its not dying today or tomorrow but if they don't do something about it they are going to bleed to death."

LMAO... How/why did you pick liver ?

 

[Golter]

6/6/03 DIS hits $21.50