Yet Another Cutback Returned!

[All Aboard]

It would be unfair to use AP or Fl resident rates for comparison, so I'll use those available to everyone:

All Stars $74 standard
Moderates $94 standard
Animal Kingdom Lodge $139 standard
Contemporary $154 garden view
Ft. Wilderness Cabins $159
Beach Club $189 standard
Polynesian $199 garden view

Thanks Mary Waring, by the way.

Since many of you compare the All Stars to a Motel 6 or a Days Inn, by way of comparison those establishments are available for about $29 to $39 right now. I give the All Stars a bigger nod in terms of quality, more like the $49 to $59 resorts in LBV like the Country Inn. That, Courtyard by Marriot, Doubletree Club and Sierra are all offering $59 rates right now.

Stepping up in quality, the Radisson Resort Parkway is going for $69, Quality Suites for $75, Sunspree for $69 and Homewood Suites for $79.

Up another notch, HI Family suites is booking for $104 and Renaissance Orlando $109.

Even higher, the Peabody is going for $179 and MOWS for $159.

 

[Lesley]

I don't really get the "anyone could and did show up" as far as EE...and how it would possibly take more money to prevent it. All that needed to be done would be to simply ask for a room card to be shown along with a park ticket. No room card? Sorry, go wait over there for the public opening at 9. Really, is that so difficult?

Even with the parks being empty in Jan. we didn't get the same value from our vacation as we did when there was EE. We used Fast Pass where they had it running (it wasn't running in a lot of places because the standby lines were short....RnR was pretty much a walk on...or as much as it can be with all the preshow stuff). We didn't spend much time waiting in lines, but we generally never did before anyway because we knew how to avoid them (EE and Fastpass) So basically we lost many hours of park time. No ee combined with shorter hours left us still feeling rushed and tempted to try stretching the kids' abilities as far as skipping nap or rest times.

Though we still stay on site, there is less value to doing so now. I used to recommend to everyone, even if they were pinching pennies, to stay on site because it was completely worth it. Now I think I'd reccomend that certain people stay off site. The bus transportation really isn't as good as it used to be and there's no EE. Rent a car and save some on the room. With DVC and AP rates I've still been staying on property....but at rack rates? No way.

I am doubtful that EE will return....even if they see a decline in bookings they'll explain it away as something else. And I'm sure that most travelers to WDW don't really look at what kind of value they're getting. I know folks who are at WDW now....paid for LOS passes and are going to go to Universal and pay for tickets there while they already have tickets for the Disney parks! Heck, there are people out there who buy travel packages! Lots of 'em. I have yet to see a package that is a good value (and believe me, I've looked). So perhaps it was a good financial move to eliminate EE....but I'm not sure that it was a good decision all around. They've ticked off a lot of folks.

Oh, and gcurling, those rates you are quoting are not the current rack rates from what I can tell....they are more equivalent to AP rates. The Poly has been $239 for garden view for quite some time and $189 was the AP rate we were quoted for the BC in Jan. believe the Moderates have been $119 for a while now too. $94 was the rack rate back in 1994 and is still often available through special offers like AP rates.

Scoop, I have no idea where you've seen a $150 rate for the Poly....but that would be extremely low. Even the infamous "postcard" rates were higher. And you can be if I'd been offered the Poly for $150 I would have been there!

 

[barreloflaughs]

Lesley wrote:

And I'm sure that most travelers to WDW don't really look at what kind of value they're getting<snip> Heck, there are people out there who buy travel packages! Lots of 'em. I have yet to see a package that is a good value (and believe me, I've looked). So perhaps it was a good financial move to eliminate EE....but I'm not sure that it was a good decision all around. They've ticked off a lot of folks.

I think part of the problem is that the majority of WDW consumers are clueless. They buy LOS passes and go to Universal for a day or two. Many stay on-site, pay rack rate and sleep through EE because either, a) they don't know what it is, or, b) they are on vacation and refuse to wake up that early. They wander aimlessly through the park with no touring schedule and don't have the foggiest idea what Fastpass is (although they do wonder why the people in that other line get to ride before them).

Disney is counting on these clueless visitors to be in the majority for years to come. As long as the educated consumer is in the minority Disney won't really care how ticked off they get. They'll be counting on the clueless masses.

carl
barrel of laughs

 

[All Aboard]

Lesley,

I was trying to show the best deals available to the general public for the next few months. The WDW rates are based on mass media ads and are not tied to state residency or passholder type.

Carl,

You are dead on. Disney views us as a minor periphery. A woman that works with my wife asked me for some advice yesterday. Their plan was to drive up to WDW, look for a place to stay and go to a couple of parks. Their son is now five and they thought they'd start going a few times a year. I'm sure they would have purchased single day tickets this time and next. No doubt they would have walked into something like the Radisson and dropped $119 a night rack rate. They are more likely in the majority.

Another expample is how folks here get all excited at the play 4 days promotion. Most have no idea that instead of 4 days for $99, they can get 250 days for $170 with a seasonal pass. Some take advantage of play 4 both times it runs during the year.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Lesley, sure your proposal for limiting enterence is simple enough, but the lines will be congested wih people not getting in. There will be grumbling, arguments and bad feelings & the CM's will be put in a circumstance Disney tries very hard to keep their CM's out of. I don't see this as a difficult concept to understand...Conflict, the perception of favoritisim, angry guests, hese things aren't good for business at the happiest place on earth.

I think barreloflaughs is very on target with his consumer analysis. This is the majority & this is who they wish to target. The elimination of EE will obviously not (according o their studies) hurt Resort attendance. This combined with other factors mean adios EE, I'm afraid...

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Voice,
There is quite a logistical nightmare involved with installing Fast Pass at an existing attraction. Cables need to be run, ground needs to be dug up and room is needed for the machines themselves. I do not that that it is possible for Dumbo to get FastPass and why try when the attraction never has more than a 20min wait (i mean real time, not wait board time).

 

[Lesley]

Me? Pay rack rates? You guys don't know me very well! LOL....never would I pay them if there's a better rate!

My point was that the average clueless guest isn't getting those great rates...only those willing to do lots of calling and searching for a good rate. And without the perk of ee I think less people will be willing to search. I do truly believe that WDW hotels are/will be hurt by the change....but that WDW will choose to blame other things for the losses instead. Maybe they wouldn't have to make such huge discounts if they kept their standards higher.

The whole point of ee was to set the WDW resorts apart in one more way....the cost should be made up in hotel bookings, not breakfast sales. And just because someone didn't attend ee doesn't mean it wasn't an inflential point in getting them to book a WDW resort stay...some folks just like knowing they have the option and that they're treated specially (and many of these folks are members of the clueless masses)

Oh, and as far as grumbling day guests trying to break the rules....hmmm...so Disney panders to groups who aren't giving them large sums of money and have the nerve to complain that they're not getting a perk that resorts guests have paid for (via room rates)? If anyone should be told to "get over it" that's the group to tell.

Ah well, I retire....I don't even know which thread I'm on and I'm haunted by images of clueless masses of moist waconians ....

 

[Panthius]

Oh, and as far as grumbling day guests trying to break the rules....hmmm...so Disney panders to groups who aren't giving them large sums of money and have the nerve to complain that they're not getting a perk that resorts guests have paid for (via room rates)? If anyone should be told to "get over it" that's the group to tell.

I definitely agree with this. Also, if they did institute this, eventually, people would begin to get the idea that Disney is no longer letting anybody and everybody with a ticket in early any more. This would result in less people even attempting to get in before the official opening time. I do believe there may be some people who may be upset that they are not going to get something for nothing, but that is not Disney's fault either, and as Lesley said, this group of people should be told to "get over it!".











Panthius

 

[Bob O]

Peter Pirate How can it cost disney more money to enforce EE???? If the ticket takers do their job like they are paid too do it should be very easy to make sure only hotel guests are allowed in. It would cost no extra money at all if you make sure people are properly trained and they do their job!!!
thedscoop their is no comparsion at all to EE and FP. One was a perk for staying on site and the other is part of a admission that is available to everybody. I dont think the addition of fast pass will make people come to wdw who werent already going to come or now suddenly come to wdw. While EE was a perk that did cause people to change their hotel plans and stay on site!!!
And with the end of EE it will cost wdw at least a thousand dollars of my families money on my next visit and possibley more considering what the prices of the hotels and food is!! And that money will go to Universal if they keep having their front of the line access perk for hotel guests!!!

 

[OnWithTheShow]

BobO it is not as easy to enforce as you believe. You can be staying in a Disney Resort and still have a standard park hopper pass.

 

[Panthius]

If EE were going to be a resort guest perk, then they should check the room key. If things have not changed too drastically since the last time I visited, they should just have to swipe a room key and it should know by that if the guest is allowed in or out, although once approved for EE, if they have a separate park hopper pass, that would have to be used also.

Pan

 

[Sandy Fisher]

When we were at WDW in November, as we were going through the turnstile, the female CM said to me "What moderate are you staying at?" She said her husband had helped build Coronado Springs and they stay there sometimes for short periods. She said she loved CS and always wondered where other people stayed and why.
Now, it didn't dawn on me til later that she had to know it was a moderate (happened to be CBR) by the card key I was using. So if they can tell that, they could surely have a way of knowing whether you were a guest or not. As to the single day passes, yes, a guest could be using them. But then they'd have to have a card/key for their room too right? Simple to show it. Or am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
We loved the idea of early entry and used it as a planning tool, which is what one of the CMs told me a lot of people did and that's why they didn't think it was used as much as it should be. Told him it was still part of the idea -- the lure of staying on site -- and if it was going to be discontinued something other than Character Caravan should have been offered.
Oh, well, I think I mentioned some of this in a previous post. Sorry for repeating myself.

 

[marty3d]

And there is an easy way to enforce it for the MK (not sure how they did it for the other parks). The last time I stayed on property was 98 and for MK EE they told us we had to take the Bus - which drops you off at the gates. We were told that the Monorails and Ferry didn't drop off passenger till Official Opening - I'm not sure they actually enforced it - but if they did it that way it would be easy - you get off the bus - you get in early.

 

[Another Voice]

One comment –

What possible incentive does Disney have to actually enforce the “resort guests only” policy? They can advertise EE as a “perk” for on-site guests (and book a few more hotel nights), but if they let in anyone who shows up that’s just more wallets wandering the parks. Crowding would be the only possible downside, but that doesn’t matter as long as they’re in line to drop twenty bucks at a Character breakfast.

 

[Bob O]

Its easy to enforce and a no-brainer. You may everybody who is getting into EE show a valid resort id. Everybody body gets a id so it is no problem and if somebody forgot it, too bad for them. It's easy to enforce the rules as along as the willingness is their to do it!!!

 

[marty3d]

I agree with Another Voice, though - what incentive is there to enforce it? First, you annoy another paying guest - something Disney tries to avoid - and you turn away a paying customer.

Maybe the Surprise Mornings were a better idea....

 

[HorizonsFan]

First, you annoy another paying guest - something Disney tries to avoid - and you turn away a paying customer.

Not if you only allow resort guest to the front gate early in the first place...

 

[marty3d]

[

Not if you only allow resort guest to the front gate early in the first place...

As I said - that's easy to enforce at MK - but what about the other parks?

 

[Galahad]

We loved the idea of early entry and used it as a planning tool, which is what one of the CMs told me a lot of people did and that's why they didn't think it was used as much as it should be.

As an aside...we've used EE as a planning tool as well. The past couple of years the strategy has been to AVOID the EE park on its EE day. I've talk to a lot of folks who did that. Perhaps EE was also getting in the way of balancing the crowds, etc.

 

[raidermatt]

There are plenty of guests who get to the turnstile before they realize they need to have their ticket out, so requiring them to have a room key out as well would slow the lines even more. Maybe if a bar code were branded into guests' foreheads...

Its easy for on-site EE fans to say Disney should tell guests "too bad, so sad" when it doesn't impact them. But just wait until the same principle is applied to them at some other point and listen to them bemoan the demise of Disney service.

But this whole enforcement issues is a moot point. It probably had nothing to do with EE going away.

What DID have everything to do with EE going away is that it cost a large amount of money to operate the parks for those extra hours, and Disney didn't feel it was getting enough revenue from EE to justify it. Pretty simple. It costs $X to run the parks, and the generated revenue is only, say, 50% of that. So its adios EE.

It it turns out to be a bad financial decision, its easy enough to reverse.