Disney World Buries Its Controversial $149 After Hours Experiment

[bnhonest]

Here's my problem with that, I'm already paying an inflated cost to go to Disney World, I'm not paying for a Walmart experience. I expect good things with my park ticket, and i expect Disney to go over the top, because, well, that's what sets them a part from everyone else.

The more hard tickets, the more extra special events added, the more it cheapens the regular plain vanilla ticket price.

My past three trips have been during Halloween and Christmas seasons and we've done the parties that correspond every time we've gone. So my next trip is next May. And to your point, we're going to be a little bummed to not get that extra party experience. So I see where you're coming from. That said, I've seen what Disney does on a standard evening and I've seen what they are capable of on the extra even evenings. I want to see them at their best and I want to be able to see it whenever I go.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I dont mean to be flippant, but as many have pointed out on this thread, the 7-day ticket average price is about $52. That's a better deal than almost any other park in the states. While we all would like to get more for our money, what you get for that 52 bucks is a lot. Good theming, parades, shows, rides, fireworks are all part of that 52 dollar, 13 hour or so ticket. The park is cleaner than other places, the employees are over than other places and it's just prettier than other places. And if you look at it from a 52 dollar ticket -- which many have insisted we do -- it's a solid, almost exceptional value.

If you take history out of it and just look objectively at what WDW offers compared to other parks -- not its own nostalgia-tinted past -- then I find it hard to say WDW needs to do anything more than they do.

So I disagree with your premise that it's an inflated price for a vanilla ticket. I don't think it is when you look at it comparatively with the rest of the theme park universe.

Since you're now comparing the average of the cost of a ticket spread out over 7 days, lets remember that unless you live in Orlando or can travel from home to the parks every single day then you're not spending $52 per day for the disney experience. If you look at the true cost for tickets, hotel, and food for a family of 4, it easily turns into a $3500-$4,000 trip, and thats before you start buying souvenirs.

I live less than 3 miles from a local amusement park, its not nearly as nice as WDW, but it has some fantastic rides, and I can literally get a season pass for the entire season for the same price as a single day at WDW. (Single day ticket is $105 per person at MK...Season pass at my local park is $100 per person)

The vanilla ticket comment was sarcasm, it's obviously not now, but the direction were going by adding a hard ticket because its' the second Tuesday of the month, or charging more for a little bit better of a view for fireworks (which I could have had in the past with my normal park ticket) will cheapen the normal ticket.

I've already said it on here before, but adding hard tickets or other addons such as paying to see fireworks from the best spot, do take things away from the normal park ticket. I get a yearly increase in price, and an add on takes something else away from a normal day.

If you go to MK on the day of a Christmas or Halloween Party and not to the hard ticket event, you don't get to pay less for your visit to the park. You still have to pay the full price even though the park closes early. The more hard ticket events that take place, the more often the park is going to close early. Therefore devaluing that ticket price.

I love Disney World...I love the new and exciting things and making new memories, I do not love the escalating pricing that gets higher and higher every single year.

 

[JimmyV]

But don't you have to give some consideration to the absolute dearth of publicity this thing was given? This was a new event at a new time, and Disney did very, very little to publicize it. In addition, it just sort of appeared out of nowhere. Had they announced it and planned it -- and allowed visitors the chance to know what it was and know what special benefits it offered -- attendance may have been much higher.

That's my bet for next year. Maybe even later this summer like late July/august, when the crowds drop a bit.

Lack of marketing is a tricky argument to make. There isn't any reason to believe that the people who didn't know about DAH would embrace it in percentages higher than the people who did know about it. If only 5% of the people who knew about it, (a made up number, I admit) found it to be a good value, wouldn't that percentage hold true across a larger sample size? And it is actually very likely that the people who did know about this were the "ear to the ground" Disney nuts who were more likely to consider it worthwhile. The others may have pooh-poohed it in higher percentages. The "lack of marketing" argument seems to assume that hordes of people left in the dark would have had an entirely different view of DAH. I don't see it. If the argument is that if you broadcast the event to all 6+ billion people on the planet, you will eventually find 5,000 people who want to do this, well...I suppose. But that doesn't change the overall impression of "value". After all. At an auction with 100 people holding paddles, the highest bidder represents the 1% of people in the room who found the item to be a good value. The other 99% found the item to be overpriced. That works if you are selling a single, unique item. But when you are trying to sell 3,000 similar items night after night, your business model collapses when you set your price in line with what that single bidder was willing to pay.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There was no "lack of marketing"...

They don't make "marketing mistakes"...that is not their weakness.

They do make a lot of planning and economic mistakes of late. We are in the middle of a period of them.

The after hours was likely a test balloon of sorts: but to a specific audience.

This was designed as a pure upsell...they can't "market" that.

It was to get Ma, Pa, and the kids to say "wow...that would be great...lets do it!" While they are there...or capture them in the Moment (a time honored and nearly patented Disney success plan).

It's all about stetching you - making you spend more than you would normally be willing to if you weren't high off the ether.

If they "market" it...it's gonna not make economic sense far in advance. $105 for 12 hours or $149 for at most 8...

Doesn't take Einstein to crack the code there.

Or people may do what is being advocated here: reduce day tickets and make a choice.

They don't want that...they want an ADD ON.
Will some spend all their cash at Disney springs during the day or eat it up around property? Sure...some.

Some may go to the outlets...or to cocoa...or to universal...
Some may decide to do this "instead" of a normal magic kingdom day...and that may get them out a day earlier or leak money off property.

This was meant to get you to feel special and spend more in a short time...there's no way even Disney can spin the marketing around that one. Believe me...they studied the hell out of how to do it. They always do.

 

[whiporee]

Since you're now comparing the average of the cost of a ticket spread out over 7 days, lets remember that unless you live in Orlando or can travel from home to the parks every single day then you're not spending $52 per day for the disney experience. If you look at the true cost for tickets, hotel, and food for a family of 4, it easily turns into a $3500-$4,000 trip, and thats before you start buying souvenirs.

Sure, but that's the case with any resort. Have you looked at the prices for Beaches? Any of the all-inclusives in Mexico? Or, heaven forbid, a week at a ski resort here in Colorado? Any destination place is going to have high prices these days. I think Disney is expensive, but compared to those other places, I consider it a value because I've priced them, too. And none of them are cheap.

I used the 7-day ticket comparison because when I and others have said that DAH didn't seem that highly priced compared to a one-day ticket, I was told that no one uses single day tickets, so those numbers aren't really comparable. That's why I pulled it out -- because it's the one that's repeatedly used to criticize the cost of DAH.

As for local parks, I agree that they are more affordable with a season-long ticket. I buy them here for Elitch's, and they are less than $100 for the season. But the season is only three months, and it's still dirty and crowded, with waits of an hour once the crowds kick in, and you can't bring in your own food or water, and in the afternoons, it's overrun by teenagers and gangs, and it usually closes at 6. So you're right, they are less expensive, but it's also a tough comparison because the season isn't year-long, and while it's cheaper, it shows.

 

[manning]

The power is in the walk...if you don't like it walk away. If enough walk away the price either goes down or the event goes away. You don't walk away the price stays the same/goes up.

 

[maryj11]

Why do they still have it listed on the Magic Kingdom page if they are going to discontinue it?

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

And it is actually very likely that the people who did know about this were the "ear to the ground" Disney nuts who were more likely to consider it worthwhile.

Disney nuts are more likely to have annual passes or purchase 7 day passes. I actually think that it's more worthwhile for the "non-Disney nuts" who are purchasing 1 day passes. If you're paying $120 for a regular 1 day pass, $149 for DAH instead should be a serious consideration. You're right though that it may be hard to convince those types to cough up an extra $30 per ticket though, since they don't care enough to be there more than a day to begin with.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Disney built the success of its WDW resort on there being 4 great parks, with potentially equal value in each park, and with more or less equal access by all ticket holders to nearly everything. Hopping was included and tickets didn't expire. That's why WDW is the world's biggest tourist destination with millions of fans. The reputation was made circa 1985 - 2005.

Those years were the best years of WDW with the most growth and the most excitement from the public. Not the years before that when each ride required a coupon, and not the most recent years when everything and I mean EVERYTHING is being monetized to the max.

They can't have everything their way - they cannot have a "basic ticket" that will satisfy the average member of the public, but also re-package the same, identical experience - plus or minus a few cookies and larger or smaller crowds - with vastly different price points. I mean, they CAN, but they're in for a rude awakening if they continue down that path.

Of course the power is in the walk. But does any real fan want Disney to stumble and lose their way so badly that they have to fire their top management, or get broken up and sold piecemeal, in order to bring in newer, better ideas? Meaning, older, better ideas.

We already heard from someone who says their accountant friend told them, attendance and revenues are slipping. Are Disney management going to conclude that it's because people are already starting to "walk" or are they going to nurse along their old delusions and say that the identical, repackaged experiences are insufficiently monetized, or that they just didn't hit the perfect upsell price point yet?

If you became a Disney fan circa 1985-2005, or you think that was the golden age of WDW, you should definitely be worried because the people in charge are determined to never do it that way again.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Yes, there were dates where all tickets were distributed, either by sales or by giving away. It was still very magical and just as few guests in the parks.
I discussed it with a Guest Services rep while we were there and they told me (yeah, I know) that 1500 tickets were all they were offering, per night.

Wow.... 1500?? No wonder they needed $149 per in order to make it worth while.

MG

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wow.... 1500?? No wonder they needed $149 per in order to make it worth while.

MG

I'm not sure it's worth the operational cost at those numbers

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I'm not sure it's worth the operational cost at those numbers

That's what I was thinking also.

MG

 

[AngiTN]

I'm not sure it's worth the operational cost at those numbers

That's what I have said all along too. While I enjoyed it and would go again, considering there was probably at least 5 CM to every guest I just can't fathom how they made a profit on it. Even if it were 3000 it had to be close

 

[HopperFan]

I've already said it on here before, but adding hard tickets or other addons such as paying to see fireworks from the best spot, do take things away from the normal park ticket. I get a yearly increase in price, and an add on takes something else away from a normal day.

If you go to MK on the day of a Christmas or Halloween Party and not to the hard ticket event, you don't get to pay less for your visit to the park. You still have to pay the full price even though the park closes early. The more hard ticket events that take place, the more often the park is going to close early. Therefore devaluing that ticket price.

Completely disagree that add-ons take away from the normal park ticket. Don't buy in. You can still see the fireworks. Just like those who pay more for their hotel can walk to parks or are at the closer bus stop. Spending more got them more. Now if the DAH stays and results in the cancellation of EMH then yes, some will feel it took away from them. But then again, EMH used to be a pay event, and maybe Disney feels it should be again.

If you go to MK on a party day, your ticket is not devalued because you went knowing the posted hours. Park hours fluctuate all year long and posted way in advance (and later may get extended but not reduced). One should plan each day based on posted hours. Your ticket is not for X number of hours, it is for a day. Also Disney offers a Hopper option so that you can leave the MK then travel to another park that is still open.

Disney nuts are more likely to have annual passes or purchase 7 day passes. I actually think that it's more worthwhile for the "non-Disney nuts" who are purchasing 1 day passes. If you're paying $120 for a regular 1 day pass, $149 for DAH instead should be a serious consideration. You're right though that it may be hard to convince those types to cough up an extra $30 per ticket though, since they don't care enough to be there more than a day to begin with.

Disagree. Being a "Disney nut" with an AP, I feel free to spend the extra monies on extra things like Club Villain, MNSSHP multiple times, Dessert Parties, Wild Africa Trek and now DAH - because I more than get my monies worth from my AP ticket, and that cost does not factor in. There is a market for these events but I get how some may not get it. We went to a Universal event last weekend; Diagon Alley, Mummy and Transformers only rides open but there were extras that came with it. Only 1000 people. Totally worth it for us.

Wow.... 1500?? No wonder they needed $149 per in order to make it worth while.
MG

When this all started MK CMs told their cap would be 3000 and no doubt if 3000 wanted to buy it, they'd sell it. Never got to test that one. Common sense is price it to sell like crazy and in the end you will do better. Their bean counters missed on that one. Let's face it, any amount was more than they were making than with EMH AND they didn't have to leave the stores open.

That's what I have said all along too. While I enjoyed it and would go again, considering there was probably at least 5 CM to every guest I just can't fathom how they made a profit on it. Even if it were 3000 it had to be close

But compare it to an EMH where they make virtually no money from the resort guests there running from ride to ride. Yes there may be some offsite shoppers but it's also very expensive to keep all the stores and food locations open. DAH did have a substantial number of CM not working and locations closed saving money.

 

[KLEONARD]

My wife and I have APs and are DVC members. We went to the may 19th, Thursday night after hours party with the DVC 50% discount. At 11:00 PM we walked onto Buzz Light Year. We kept walking onto rides for the 3 hours. Mickey's Philharmagic was the surprise of the night. We were 2 of 16 people in the theater. All adults. The 3D was still the same, but the audio was so clear it was startling. The usual amount of people must soak up some of the volume. The Jungle Cruise was different. The captain asked if we wanted "regular JC" or "behind the scenes JC". We had the "behind the scenes JC". We found it entertaining and informative. There were no boats behind us, so the captain would slowdown/stop the boat and shine a light on the exhibits and point out things. Nothing that most die-hard Disney fans have not heard before. Rode big thunder mountain, front of the train. The rest of the train was almost empty. Four people sat in the last two cars. The train seemed to be going quite a bit faster, especially around the turns. My wife and I decided it was the lack of weight with only six people on the train. The Main Street Electrical Parade was great. They did the whole parade around 12:30/1:00. My wife and I stood up against the rope. People were pretty much ten feet apart for the parade route. Great parade without having to sit on a sidewalk for an hour.
We had a studio villa at the Poly. The monorail and boat were not running at the end of the party. We walked onto a bus and were back in the room by 2:30.
$159.00 for 2 people, totally worth it for us. We both agreed we would do it again at the discounted price.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Completely disagree that add-ons take away from the normal park ticket. Don't buy in. You can still see the fireworks. Just like those who pay more for their hotel can walk to parks or are at the closer bus stop. Spending more got them more. Now if the DAH stays and results in the cancellation of EMH then yes, some will feel it took away from them. But then again, EMH used to be a pay event, and maybe Disney feels it should be again.

We disagree on this then. I may still be able to see the fireworks, but now you've taken a great spot away from me, unless I want to pay more. I've already paid $3500-$4000 for a 7 day trip, now because I don't pay a few hundred more dollars for my family of 4, I don't have a shot at getting the best spot.

If you go to MK on a party day, your ticket is not devalued because you went knowing the posted hours. Park hours fluctuate all year long and posted way in advance (and later may get extended but not reduced). One should plan each day based on posted hours. Your ticket is not for X number of hours, it is for a day. Also Disney offers a Hopper option so that you can leave the MK then travel to another park that is still open.

Just because you know well in advance about a party doesn't mean that party still doesn't shut down the park hours early. That really has nothing to do with it. The party is causing the park to close early, so therefore it takes away from normal park operating hours.

I don't honestly think we are the normal Disney guests, meaning we're fanatics, thats why we're on this board. We know all about these things well in advance. I think the normal park guests knows a lot, but not nearly as much. Now picture someone that goes and hasn't been in a long time. They get down there and after spending thousands of dollars they are told if they want to do x, they have pay x amount more. If this happens a few times on their trip, that can leave a very sour taste in someone's mouth, and instead of turning someone into a repeat customer, disney has turned them into a once in a life time customer.

For a long time Disney has done a fantastic job of marketing these packages; tickets, hotels, and dining plan, etc. so that the guests feels like everything is included. Once they've done that, and then start doing addons and hard tickets, I can see how someone would get upset when they find out they have to pay more for some things.

My wife and I went on our honeymoon, it had been 10+ years since either one of us had been. We only had to plan dining reservations and work around those, but that trip was so fun. We fell in love with Disney. Now they've added more hard ticket events, additional addons, and now you have to plan your dining reservations and fast pass reservations months ahead of time, we still love disney, but if that had been how it was on our honeymoon, I can see disney being a once in 5 years trip or so, instead of a yearly trip for us.

 

[ChipnDale79]

But compare it to an EMH where they make virtually no money from the resort guests there running from ride to ride. Yes there may be some offsite shoppers but it's also very expensive to keep all the stores and food locations open. DAH did have a substantial number of CM not working and locations closed saving money.

I disagree with this comment. The virtual no money is not true at all. Those EMH are a main selling point and why many people stay onsite. The EMH and the transportation to the parks are exactly why my family pays the higher cost to stay onsite vs offsite.

 

[mom2rtk]

I disagree with this comment. The virtual no money is not true at all. Those EMH are a main selling point and why many people stay onsite. The EMH and the transportation to the parks are exactly why my family pays the higher cost to stay onsite vs offsite.

Agreed. The money does not have to be in the form of more food and souvenirs sold in the parks for Disney to make money on EMH. The extra money is made in the higher price for the room. Everyone seems to forget that detail.

 

[HopperFan]

We disagree on this then. I may still be able to see the fireworks, but now you've taken a great spot away from me, unless I want to pay more. I've already paid $3500-$4000 for a 7 day trip.............................................................................................

No one took a great spot from you because honestly no spot, anywhere, is anyone's but Disney's. You have a great shot at getting the best spot "available" and just because it's not the spot you want doesn't mean they took anything from you. Offering special viewing areas is nothing new for Disney, Fantasmic package has been around a long time, I think I booked it a decade ago. They save prime seating for the package holders who paid extra for that seat. Rivers of Light will be the same model. Nothing new. Nothing unexpected. Plenty of good viewing available.

If you feel you are paying too much for your Disney trip due to not getting your monies worth, then why go? It's a luxury optional vacation for everyone and if a vacation does not fulfill your expectations then it wasn't really a vacation was it? I know I won't go back to some places because I did not get MY monies worth.

The park hours are park hours, aka normal operating hours. Fall hours have basically been the same for 10+ years. Disney posts hours 6 months in advance. Those are the minimal park hours. Guests booking trips can decide if that works for them or not. If someone spent thousands of dollars to go to a THEME PARK and did not check PARK HOURS in advance, then they are foolish and I don't feel sorry for them at all. I don't even drive to a local store that isn't one of my regulars without checking hours before I waste my time. If they really don't know then they didn't book ADRs and they didn't book FP+ and they really aren't worried about "getting their monies worth." Zero sympathy.

Repeat customer ............. do you really think with all these changes that the repeat is Disney's demographic market. It's not. If it were there would be many more offerings for the repeat, for the AP etc. Their demographic right now is the family doing the big huge blow out - once in a lifetime trip - that will drop a bucket load of money. Then they want the next guest to be the same. They make way more money from them and they don't have to listen to their complaints of how it used to be.

Package: hotel, food, tickets. That is what they got. Add-ons are completely optional and not needed for a great trip. It's like going on a cruise: cabin, dining, shows, pools. But if I want to do anything good at the ports a HUGE add-on, if I want a drink a HUGE charge ......... the tourism business thrives on add-ons. This is not a surprise to someone spending that much on a vacation. And the plus is they are optional.

You know why Disney added all these add-ons, hard tickets, need for ADRs, FP+ .............. because the attendance is way up from years ago. I have been going since 1971. I've been through all the ripples. I loved the first decade of this century, the recession, because it meant that Disney World was not on most folks table. Ten years of low crowds. I kicked it off with $130 a night at the Cabins, we'll never see that price again. It meant I never had long lines. It meant I could walk up to restaurants and be seated. It meant Halloween parties with half the number of folks now. Did Disney like the recession years? No, it hurt. And we as guests can't hold on to the glory years of when it was "fun" due to the low crowds. With an improved economy, folks started flooding back, Disney is trying to catch up construction wise, they are testing/offering all kinds of events because there is a demand for it. Folks want the option to pay more for smaller crowds, guaranteed seats/view, basically FP+. Disney is offering what guests are demanding. Doesn't make it wrong, it's a business move. Again, if it has changed your value, don't go or reduce to every 5 years as you say. For me, I pick what I want and pass on others. What works for me may not work for others, and visa versa .... but that doesn't make any of it wrong at all. Just like EMH is your main draw for onsite, it isn't for most.

I disagree with this comment. The virtual no money is not true at all. Those EMH are a main selling point and why many people stay onsite. The EMH and the transportation to the parks are exactly why my family pays the higher cost to stay onsite vs offsite.

Completely disagree and many on DIS have said the same thing. Folks stay on property more for:
- Bubble
- Location to parks and convenience of transportation, particularly those who fly aka ME.
- Some the ability to get DDP
- And in recent years big plus is 60 day FP+

It may be a huge perk for you and it is for me, but honestly if it were a main selling point then the parks would be at capacity with guests during EMH. The numbers of guests at EMH alone debunks this theory.

 

[starstruck93]

I just want to say I'm highly impressed with all of these analogies. I would never have given that much in depth thought to this ticket. I guess my thinking is far more simple. I saw this and immediately thought it just looked a little greedy and was something I would never do at that price point. However, we're DVC and go a few times a year. I can see people who may only go every few years or have a much deeper pocket having no issue with the price and the small amount of time in the park. April