Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[STLstone]

Based on the photo of the tents the searchers set up, it looks like the stretch of shoreline between the GF & MK. It'll be hard not to think about it when going around on the monorail.

Near the wedding chapel, too. Ugh.

 

[Naomi Collison]

This is where I come down to. When I was little we visited my uncle's brother's cabin up north in the woods. 4 of us kids were sitting at a picnic table and a black bear strolled out of the woods within a few feet from us. We had our backs turned to the woods as well, if it wasn't for my uncles brave & quick thinking dog, who knows. It was private property with a possible wild animal attack.
I don't know if WDW could have done more, should have done more but this is why there will be entire legal team to sort that out. Glad I'm not part of that. Because as a mother and being human, my emotions would take over.

Many places that have bears though, do have warnings. I live in Alaska and we don't have signs that say stay out of the forest. We have signs that say Moose in the forest and Bear in the forest. We also have signs that specify what to watch for and how to react. This is at almost every reasonable access point, ie trailheads. My 2 cents is if you create an area that is intended to invite people to be there, and you know there are other dangers in the area, due diligence would mean you should warn them of the dangers.

 

[romitaz]

So they should not take advantage of their lakes? They are recreational places -- heck, they're man-made recreational places. They should just say "okay. the alligators are here, I guess we all should stay away. Not just from the water but the beaches"? It's not like there was a bunch of fresh-cut chicken laying around the beach to draw the alligators in for an interaction. The kid was wading in the water -- that shouldn't be seen as a threatening situation by anyone, including Disney. It just happened that it was.

In situations dealing with these kinds of animals, humans have three choices.

1) They can cede the habitat to the animals and just stay away from it. That's the easiest thing to say and the hardest to do, because those bodies of water have recreational, not just aesthetic value. Disney created those lakes with a purpose, and following this course requires them to not only not use them for their intended purpose, but to also void their beaches. The same thing with homeowners -- they pay a premium for lake access, but this suggests they shouldn't use the lake to its fullest potential. It's easy to say "so what" unless you're the person paying the bills. Then you -- like everyone -- want the most value for your expenses.

2) They can decide to accept and acknowledge the risk. Even though it's a very very very very very very small one, there is a risk. This works until it doesn't, like we saw this week.

3) Or they can to their best to eliminate the problem. The only way to do that is to dedicate themselves not just to reactive policies of removing troublesome animals, but proactive stance to trying to remove them all. This would require some law changes and some public backlash and is probably unfeasible. But you could put a large dent in it, and that might be worth doing.

Give It A Rest. You made your point, misinformed as it is. KILL EM ALL! How about, No? For the 50th time. It doesn't matter how many ways you try to word it, it is a bad bad idea. It was a bad idea on page 15 or so and is still a bad idea on page 70. If this runs to infinity, guess what. Still a bad idea.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A warning sign would make a difference in one small way. If there was a sign that said "Warning Alligators are dangerous and may be present on the shore or in the water," then I would be holding Disney 0% responsible and the parents 100% responsible.

After this publicity, that is how I will feel for all future incidents. I did not feel that way about Tuesday's incident.

Yeah I would have to agree with you but the truth is it would be much more likely that Disney and the family will settle..very few things like this actually make it all the way through the courts with a judge/jury making the final decision. I honestly see more criminal or actual judgements when it comes to two companies suing each other (apple, google, etc).

The thing about settling is it doesn't necessarily mean one party is taking any responsibility (see my earlier post many pages back about companies paying out when they aren't legally required too=good PR) nor do we as the public tend to be aware of the full settlement details. Now if this doesn't go into a settlement situation and/or if Disney is held accountable in a different way by a government/state department then that's different. Even with a sign absolving Disney of "any" responsibility Disney would still likely settle and pay out something. Unfortunately that is how it usually works.

ETA: Though I personally haven't heard that the family will sue at this time.

 

[Silock]

You know now, as a fact, that the risk has increased from one in a million.

I'm still confused as to how the risk has gone up. If anything, the risk is now substantially lower due to increased public awareness and, no doubt, an increasing vigilance on the part of Disney to remove more alligators more quickly than ever before.

 

[closetmickey]

Please no flames, just an honest question from a non Floridian...is there any way to use underwater fencing at the canal points and then slowly try to relocate the gators that are already present in the lagoon as they grow? Will the gators just walk on to shore to circumnavigate? Do boats need to be able to pass through? How many canals are we talking about? Just thinking aloud....

Edited as still thinking...guess existing alligators would lay eggs continuing to increase the population at a rate far greater than those being removed.....

 

[Silock]

Please no flames, just an honest question from a non Floridian...is there any way to use underwater fencing at the canal points and then slowly try to relocate the gators that are already present in the lagoon as they grow? Will the gators just walk on to shore to circumnavigate? Do boats need to be able to pass through? How many canals are we talking about? Just thinking aloud....

Gators can climb fences as well as walk quite a long distance on land. I don't think there's any possible way to ever get rid of or keep every single gator out of WDW property. It's just not possible. To quote Dr. Malcom, "Life, ah, finds a way." Or in this case, scary-*** nature finds a way.

 

[dlavender]

I'm still confused as to how the risk has gone up. If anything, the risk is now substantially lower due to increased public awareness and, no doubt, an increasing vigilance on the part of Disney to remove more alligators more quickly than ever before.

We are talking about two different things.

You are saying that reactively, now the risk will go down due to the new measures. You are correct, most likely.

I am saying that proactively, they should have known that the risk had increased beyond the 1 and a billion or whatever that people are quoting and hanging their hat on.

See the snake example.

 

[closetmickey]

Gators can climb fences as well as walk quite a long distance on land. I don't think there's any possible way to ever get rid of or keep every single gator out of WDW property. It's just not possible. To quote Dr. Malcom, "Life, ah, finds a way." Or in this case, scary-*** nature finds a way.

Yeah - that is very true.

 

[whiporee]

Give It A Rest. You made your point, misinformed as it is. KILL EM ALL! How about, No? For the 50th time.
It doesn't matter how many ways you try to word it, it is a bad bad idea. It was a bad idea on page 15 or so and is still a bad idea on page 70. If this runs to infinity, guess what. Still a bad idea.

I don't work for you, man. I've tried to be cordial, I've tried to engage debate, I've tried to be reasonable what I've said. If you think there are options other than ones I've spelled out, then say them. If you disagree with my points then disagree. Or block me. I don't care. But I don't work for you, and I've got no intention of letting the debate only be about signs, the assignment of bad parenting and inevitability when to me there is a bigger issue.

 

[North of Mouse]

Please no flames, just an honest question from a non Floridian...is there any way to use underwater fencing at the canal points and then slowly try to relocate the gators that are already present in the lagoon as they grow? Will the gators just walk on to shore to circumnavigate? Do boats need to be able to pass through? How many canals are we talking about? Just thinking aloud....

Edited as still thinking...guess existing alligators would lay eggs continuing to increase the population at a rate far greater than those being removed.....

Absolutely they would walk around. They move all over the place in their habitat, but 'mainly' near water.

 

[Eoghann]

Many places that have bears though, do have warnings. I live in Alaska and we don't have signs that say stay out of the forest. We have signs that say Moose in the forest and Bear in the forest. We also have signs that specify what to watch for and how to react. This is at almost every reasonable access point, ie trailheads. My 2 cents is if you create an area that is intended to invite people to be there, and you know there are other dangers in the area, due diligence would mean you should warn them of the dangers.

Due diligence goes both ways. If I go to hike a trail it is absolutely on me to check the weather, study a map and take the time to learn what wildlife I might encounter.

There's insufficient evidence to say if a different sign would have changed anything here. in fact there are far too few data points to draw any general conclusions about anything beyond the fact that alligator attacks on Disney property are an exceptionally rare event.

 

[dlavender]

Please no flames, just an honest question from a non Floridian...is there any way to use underwater fencing at the canal points and then slowly try to relocate the gators that are already present in the lagoon as they grow? Will the gators just walk on to shore to circumnavigate? Do boats need to be able to pass through? How many canals are we talking about? Just thinking aloud....

Edited as still thinking...guess existing alligators would lay eggs continuing to increase the population at a rate far greater than those being removed.....

While driving through the Ocala national forest, in central Florida, I have literally seen an alligator crossing the highway. This was on state road 19. So to answer your question, I think that they will indeed circumnavigate.

 

[dlavender]

Due diligence goes both ways. If I go to hike a trail it is absolutely on me to check the weather, study a map and take the time to learn what wildlife I might encounter.

There's insufficient evidence to say if a different sign would have changed anything here. in fact there are far too few data points to draw any general conclusions about anything beyond the fact that alligator attacks on Disney property are an exceptionally rare event.

Going hiking, in nature, is unquestionably different than hanging out at a resort.

 

[Eoghann]

Going hiking, in nature, is unquestionably different than hanging out at a resort.

No. It isn't.

You are exposed to nature and danger everywhere. Snakes, spiders, lightning, cars, thieves etc.

When you go somewhere it is on you as an individual to learn about the risks.

This is not "Disney's fault" nor is it "the family's fault". That is a childish binary view of the world that does not stand up to reality.

 

[North of Mouse]

While driving through the Ocala national forest, in central Florida, I have literally seen an alligator crossing the highway. This was on state road 19. So to answer your question, I think that they will indeed circumnavigate.

I'm in the south - many gators are seen crossing, or, are hit on the road by vehicles.

 

[Naomi Collison]

Due diligence goes both ways. If I go to hike a trail it is absolutely on me to check the weather, study a map and take the time to learn what wildlife I might encounter.

There's insufficient evidence to say if a different sign would have changed anything here. in fact there are far too few data points to draw any general conclusions about anything beyond the fact that alligator attacks on Disney property are an exceptionally rare event.

And as Dlavender said, hiking is different than hanging at a resort. Even hiking, where you are expected to prepare yourself, there are warning signs about what you will encounter, why should there be less at a resort?

No, this isn't Disney's fault. It isn't the family's fault. It isn't the alligators fault. It truly is a horrid situation where everyone should be thanking the rescuers for what they have done and offering support to the family.

Going forward though. I think Disney would be remiss in not warning of the dangers that are on their resort.

 

[dlavender]

No. It isn't.

You are exposed to nature and danger everywhere. Snakes, spiders, lightning, cars, thieves etc.

When you go somewhere it is on you as an individual to learn about the risks.

This is not "Disney's fault" nor is it "the family's fault". That is a childish binary view of the world that does not stand up to reality.

Do you wear hiking gear when walking about the resort? Come on.

See below. Sign from Yellowstone. Where people hike. Outdoors. Supposed to come prepared. So you are saying that where people should undoubtedly come prepared, they have below signage, but wouldn't where people don't come prepared? Seems a little backwards, no?

 

[Eoghann]

Do you wear hiking gear when walking about the resort? Come on.

See below. Sign from Yellowstone. Where people hike. Outdoors. Supposed to come prepared. So you are saying that where people should undoubtedly come prepared, they have below signage, but wouldn't where people don't come prepared? Seems a little backwards, no?

I assure you there are many trails with only minimal signage for dangers. Several of the ones I hike regularly do not warn of snakes anywhere for example, however, you are guaranteed to see them on the path during the evening in the summer and some of them are poisonous. Similarly one of the lakes the boys occasionally swim in has snakes from time to time, no signage about it there either. Another trail I hike I believe the trail guide mentions the possibility of bears if you pick that up and read it, but no warning signs like the one above. These are all areas open to and encouraging the public to visit incidentally.

I'm not against signs, though I doubt it will actually make much difference. I'm against the tone of "why didn't the have this?" that some posters here and the media has taken.

Oh and the wearing of hiking gear would not save you from alligators, bears or snakes so it's entirely irrelevant. Wherever you go, you have a responsibility to educate yourself about the risks.

 

[ParkHoppers]

IMO Disney should have had gator warning signs and those that say don't feed gators. After this horrible event how many people with small children do we really think will be anywhere near those beaches. As some time passes and Disney puts in more efforts to control gators( and they will) people should return to these beaches. Can't express how bad I feel for the loss this family will always have to live with.