Getting canned over racist language

[bcla]

Anyone in a visible position has to be careful what they say at all times, on the clock and off. Some cashier in a supermarket may be able to skirt by with a tweet completely unrelated to their job made off the clock but a CEO, spokesman, public face is "working" 24/7. Think all the vile crap you want, I really don't care one way or the other since you can't police thoughts, but don't be an idiot and actually say it.

There seem to be a lot of people who aren't necessarily at the top of the food chain, but who are losing their jobs because they did (or refused to do) something while a camera was running. It's not necessarily for something racist, but often is racist or tangentially so. I noted the person who seemed to be an investment advisor at a branch location who uttered that word. I'm wondering how she's dealing with losing her job.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

He's wishing it was still the 1950s where he could get away with saying what Colonel Sanders said.

Ding Ding Ding!!! Winner Winner Kentucky Fried Chicken Dinner!!!

 

[Colleen27]

There seem to be a lot of people who aren't necessarily at the top of the food chain, but who are losing their jobs because they did (or refused to do) something while a camera was running. It's not necessarily for something racist, but often is racist or tangentially so. I noted the person who seemed to be an investment advisor at a branch location who uttered that word. I'm wondering how she's dealing with losing her job.

And really, although I'm not a fan of it this is the logical consequence of the blurring of public and private when it comes to employment and social media. It doesn't matter if you're a CEO or a stockboy - in the opinion of a lot of employers, you're representing the company every minute of every day. Of course the same places that won't hire a 22yo kid who posted a picture of himself with a joint in high school or a 19yo college kid who has been photographed with a beer in hand are going to fire employees based on bigoted speech/postings, especially if they go viral.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

You know you have no business being the face of a franchise in the 21st century, when part of your strategy for distancing yourself from online racists is that the front man for another franchise who has been dead for nearly 38 years used the n word and never got in trouble. And also no points for trying giving yourself credit for not following in the footsteps of your Hoosier forefathers by not dragging African-Americans behind trucks.

He just appears to have always been like this and is finally letting his true colors show.

Why even bring up something like that? Totally bizarre thing to say no matter what point you're trying to make.

I've never had Papa John's pizza so I can't comment on the quality. Most of the people I know who've tried it say it sucks.

Just based on his TV commercials, I always figured he was a giant tool.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Why even bring up something like that? Totally bizarre thing to say no matter what point you're trying to make.

I've never had Papa John's pizza so I can't comment on the quality. Most of the people I know who've tried it say it sucks.

Just based on his TV commercials, I always figured he was a giant tool.

I'm assuming it was his attempt to minimize racism as it is viewed today. People often use examples of racism from the past to argue they aren't racist or some situation isn't racist because it's not as bad as X.

 

[luvsJack]

If you and I are thinking about the same fast food franchise, they engage in a much more acceptable form of bigotry, socially speaking. Racism is almost universally viewed as bad, but discrimination against homosexuals still enjoys a certain veil of acceptability among those who view it as condemning a chosen behaviour rather than an inescapable inborn trait.



At this point, that's probably true. It is a lot easier to hold on to money than to earn it in the first place. But that doesn't make me feel any better about contributing to it, any more than I'd contribute to keeping any other business I didn't agree with or appreciate alive for the sake of the employees/franchise owner. I've stopped patronizing fast food places for far weaker reasons - menu changes, price increases, etc. - and I don't feel bad about the fallout on those who work there (who generally had no say in any of the reasons I stopped going). Why should ethics be less of a reason to shop or not shop in a particular place than anything else? After all, there's no shortage of pizza places around - even my town of <5000 people has 4 chain and 2 independent pizza places.

If your ethics and morals tell you not to buy from that place, then that is what you should do We all have to make the choice that is right for each one of us and basically doing what helps each of us sleep at night. But the fact remains that it isn’t going to effect him but it can have an effect on people who never said anything wrong.

 

[DisneylandDarling]

Honestly, it doesn't even surprise me anymore. What he said is mild compared to what passes through some other prominent figures' lips.

The mouth speaks what the heart is full of...

 

[bcla]

If your ethics and morals tell you not to buy from that place, then that is what you should do We all have to make the choice that is right for each one of us and basically doing what helps each of us sleep at night. But the fact remains that it isn’t going to effect him but it can have an effect on people who never said anything wrong.

We make all sorts of decisions on where to do (or not do) business without necessarily considering the contributions to workers' livelihoods.

But in the end you're right that we make our own choices in a free market. Most of the time it's simplified to "this costs too much", "I like this better", "the owner ticks me off", or any of dozens of possible reasons we'd consider or not consider making a purchase. In the end my minor contributions as a consumer aren't likely to amount to much, but I do understand that collective outrage or collective support might very well make a difference. I'm pretty sure they teach this kind of thing in business school.

I have decided that I wouldn't return to a cafe because I was unhappy with how an employee treated me. Maybe that's unfair to the other employees, but a lot of decisions are deeply personal and there's nothing wrong with that. For some people that deeply personal idea is that someone in a leadership position said something deeply offensive.

As for Papa John's, I don't ever recall buying anything there or even having their product. I just find this amusing that someone who was the face of the company would do something that anyone would have told him was a bad, bad move. Other companies have dealt with various types of fallout where customers said they'd never return - even though someone was canned or whatever it was became known and could be avoided. I had a Hindu friend who said he'd never eat at McDonald's again after he found out that one of the "natural flavors" in their fries was beef extract. I heard that McDonald's sales in India went way down, even though their fries had zero animal products in them. Jared Fogle's ties to Subway have seriously hurt the company, but I'm sure that the people who are turned off by him probably won't return just because they severed all ties.

In a real marketplace there's always companies expanding and contracting and movement of workers. It's something beyond my direct control. Individual decisions affect the people's livelihoods all the time, and it's affected my livelihood. But we live in a macro world where individual customers aren't likely to make that difference.

 

[SteveH]

I feel for the local franchise owners in this whole debacle. The founder and CEO stepped in a big pile of you know what with his comments. He's out, but I'm sure he'll be just fine financially.

The local Papa John's guy here is a real pizza hustler. You see him at every community event. He's smart at marketing and being seen. I have the utmost respect for him for being a good small business owner, and one that does the right thing.

Now because of a stupid owner and his asinine comment this local guy and his employees are going to take a big financial hit. Will they survive? Yeah they probably will be fine.. in time.

Canning "Papa John" was 100% the right thing to do.

As much as I like the local guy, I am not a fan of their pizza at all.

 

[L&Lfan]

I've never tried Papa John's pizza and in all honesty, I'm not even sure we have one in our area. We have literally hundreds of pizzerias of all kinds in our area (south Jersey).

 

[bcla]

I've never tried Papa John's pizza and in all honestly, I'm not even sure we have one in our area. We have literally hundreds of pizzerias of all kinds in our area (south Jersey).

The strange thing is I live in an area where it's "gourmet this" or "organic that", and it almost becomes a stereotype that everyone is a hippie foodie. And yes there are all types of pizzas including California style as well as places started by transplants from Brooklyn or Chicago. Still - chain pizza places still do a brisk business. The closest Papa John's isn't that close to me, but I admit that recently I've been buying a lot from Domino's because of their $7.99 takeout special. And the place that probably sell more pizzas than any restaurant is Costco. Probably because $9.99+tax buys enough to feed six people.

 

[Disney Doll]

Exactly. I'm so tired of people screaming about Free Speech! and First Amendment rights in these situations.

Why? He does have a right to free speech. And people have a right to determine how they want to respond to that speech.

It’s a slippery slope when we start to say “you can’t say that”. We CAN say pretty much anything we want (see PPs post for what we can’t say). We also have to be prepared for the consequences/reactions to what we say.

But let’s not start thinking that we should be telling folks what they can and cannot say.

 

[Suger Mag]

Why even bring up something like that? Totally bizarre thing to say no matter what point you're trying to make.

I've never had Papa John's pizza so I can't comment on the quality. Most of the people I know who've tried it say it sucks.

Just based on his TV commercials, I always figured he was a giant tool.

It was not brought up with no connection. It was mentioned because that was also part of what Schnatter said, Besides waxing nostalgically about late Colonel Sanders and his unpunished use of the N word, Schnatter also talked about how they used to drag black people behind cars in Indiana when he was growing up. Nasty pizza and a nasty person.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Why? He does have a right to free speech. And people have a right to determine how they want to respond to that speech.

It’s a slippery slope when we start to say “you can’t say that”. We CAN say pretty much anything we want (see PPs post for what we can’t say). We also have to be prepared for the consequences/reactions to what we say.

But let’s not start thinking that we should be telling folks what they can and cannot say.

Because people often use the "free speech" argument to justify why someone should not get fired or face other consequences from an employer or other non-government entity. There are many people in this country who don't understand what the protection of free speech really is. The comment you quoted wasn't meant to say that speech should be limited; rather, it was pointing out that the meaning is often used incorrectly.

 

[Planogirl]

Because people often use the "free speech" argument to justify why someone should not get fired or face other consequences from an employer or other non-government entity. There are many people in this country who don't understand what the protection of free speech really is. The comment you quoted wasn't meant to say that speech should be limited; rather, it was pointing out that the meaning is often used incorrectly.

Even if it's used incorrectly, those same people have the right to do so. Free speech is an amazing thing that should be defended but it does lead to a lot of nonsense.

I do agree that people should expect any kind of fallout when they say such things though. It's just not smart and that's only the start of what's wrong.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I totally agree that he should not have said what he did, but I do hate to see him go down in flames for our community. I live literally, around the corner from the Papa John's Headquarters (AKA - The Pizza Palace) and he does pour millions and millions of dollars into the community. I hope whomever takes over running the company has the same compassion for community that John does.

 

[msjprincess]

Why? He does have a right to free speech. And people have a right to determine how they want to respond to that speech.

It’s a slippery slope when we start to say “you can’t say that”. We CAN say pretty much anything we want (see PPs post for what we can’t say). We also have to be prepared for the consequences/reactions to what we say.

But let’s not start thinking that we should be telling folks what they can and cannot say.

I think you misunderstood my point.

Every time someone in the public eye gets fired, loses a tv show...over something they said, some people will get up in arms claiming it's their 1st Amendment right and they can't be fired, "what about free speech, yada, yada, yada?" They don't understand what free speech and the 1st Amendment actually mean.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I totally agree that he should not have said what he did, but I do hate to see him go down in flames for our community. I live literally, around the corner from the Papa John's Headquarters (AKA - The Pizza Palace) and he does pour millions and millions of dollars into the community. I hope whomever takes over running the company has the same compassion for community that John does.

He's a racist. You should hope the person who takes over actually cares about your local community as a whole and cares about society as a whole.
It's interesting that this is another thread about racism and so many choose to focus only potential job loses. It happened on the Rosanne thread to. It's somewhat dismissive of bigotry. It seems to be saying "yeah it's bad but not worth people being effected financially".

 

[luvsJack]

He's a racist. You should hope the person who takes over actually cares about your local community as a whole and cares about society as a whole.
It's interesting that this is another thread about blame racism and so many choose to focus only potential job loses. It happened on the Rosanne thread to. It's somewhat dismissive of bigotry. It seems to be saying "yeah it's bad but not worth people being effected financially".

I haven’t read where anyone said he shouldn’t have been removed as CEO. HE is the bigot and no one has dismissed that.

But you seem to be saying that taking down everyone in the company is ok if it “gets the bigot”. So those thousands of innocent people should be ok to be possibly unemployed because they didn’t know the CEO was a bigot?

Now I realize that very few if any will actually lose their jobs over this but if the possibility is there, is that what you think should happen? Would that satisfy a need to properly teach the bigot of his wrongs? And keep in mind, I most certainly agree that he was wrong and he was stupid to say what he did. But he isn’t losing a lot. He is already a billionaire.

The pp that you quoted recognizes that Papa John, while still a bigot and wrong, did do good things for the community. It’s just seeing the flip side of someone and hating to lose the good parts while knowing he has to be gone for the bad parts. It’s just seeing all those little gray areas of a human being, not just the black and white. And not dismissing them either.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I haven’t read where anyone said he shouldn’t have been removed as CEO. HE is the bigot and no one has dismissed that.

But you seem to be saying that taking down everyone in the company is ok if it “gets the bigot”. So those thousands of innocent people should be ok to be possibly unemployed because they didn’t know the CEO was a bigot?

Now I realize that very few if any will actually lose their jobs over this but if the possibility is there, is that what you think should happen? Would that satisfy a need to properly teach the bigot of his wrongs? And keep in mind, I most certainly agree that he was wrong and he was stupid to say what he did. But he isn’t losing a lot. He is already a billionaire.

The pp that you quoted recognizes that Papa John, while still a bigot and wrong, did do good things for the community. It’s just seeing the flip side of someone and hating to lose the good parts while knowing he has to be gone for the bad parts. It’s just seeing all those little gray areas of a human being, not just the black and white. And not dismissing them either.

I'm not saying that (the bolded) at all.