At what age is it no longer appropriate for kids to be pantless when company is over?

[BLAZEY]

Here is the thing. This is not your kid. Period. All of my nieces and nephews are adults now, and several have children of their own. I babysat for all of them. I spent a good deal of time with my siblings, their kids in their homes, and they spent that time with me as well. I also have a teen DGD. My DD and my DSIL lived with us for a period of time while they saved for a home and I was DGD caregiver. When the children were in my care I established rules of behavior. The same held true with my DGD. When she was entrusted to me I reprimanded her if her behavior merited a scolding or some sort of consequence. I have the little girls on my street with me a lot as well, and when they are with me they know the deal. They MUST wear underwear.

Now, when they are with their parents I stay out of any discipline. I never even intruded on my DD and DSIL when they lived with me. There would never be a day when I would overstep by disciplining, enforcing or in any way, shape or form intruding on a parent's rules. I am not supporting a child back talking an adult, however I would let Mom and Dad handle it. The furthest I would go if a kid backtalked me or was rude would be to say "Excuse me?" and move on. I can honestly say that not one of my family members, or the kids who I cared for ever did this. My question to you is why did your nephew back talk you? I have never needed a parent to intervene for me in regards to how children spoke to me, but I believe there is a reason for that.

I was once told by my peers who worked with me, and who were know to have trashy mouths that they could never slip in front of me. I asked why. The explanation was that there was something about me that made them remember their manners. The young man was complimenting me rather than complaining about the way they minded their mouths. Perhaps you should look at why a 5 YO was so emboldened that he defied you.

That's easy, it's because he's never disciplined in ANY form. His is just asked not to do something again. Then he does it again. HE speaks like that to everyone, his parents, grandparents, teachers as well. They had to pick him up from Preschool/daycare this week due to his behavior again. He CAN be good, and is usually better one on one with adults but as soon as another kid is around he is wild. My sister has had him tested and everything comes back as he is developing within normal ranges.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am not assuming it was 'back talk'.
I was assuming that this kid was simply stating the thing as he understood it... That he did not think that, according to his parents (mom in specific, and maybe dad too) that he had to wear additional clothing. This is shown by the fact that his mom also stated that he did not necessarily have to wear pants.

And, even if it was clearly a case of back-talk and disrespect...
Doesn't justify anything here. (as you seem to be hoping)

Like the post just above.
Not your kid.

Not your home.
Not your husband/wife.
Not your business.
Not your call.
And, therefore... Not appropriate to step in and make request and make any issue out of it.

Seems pretty simple.

 

[mousefan73]

Maybe what?



How old is your son?

Maybe was a voice tomtext error. My son is 13

 

[mousefan73]

You allow your 12 year old daughter to be in a shirt an undies when you have guests? I can't even imagine a 12 year old that would be comfortable begin only in undies with mom and dad let alone uncles, cousins, etc.

Obviously she doesnt have an issue or she would jump up and grab clothes when family stops by which is daily as they live down the street and were a daily part of my kids’ lives since birth. They changed their dailpers etc. of course my kids leave the home fullt clothed. But I raised my kids to not be ashamed of their bodies. And what is wrong with underwear. MY DD’s cover more than some of these super short shorts teenies wear in public

 

[disykat]

Here is the thing. This is not your kid. Period. All of my nieces and nephews are adults now, and several have children of their own. I babysat for all of them. I spent a good deal of time with my siblings, their kids in their homes, and they spent that time with me as well. I also have a teen DGD. My DD and my DSIL lived with us for a period of time while they saved for a home and I was DGD caregiver. When the children were in my care I established rules of behavior. The same held true with my DGD. When she was entrusted to me I reprimanded her if her behavior merited a scolding or some sort of consequence. I have the little girls on my street with me a lot as well, and when they are with me they know the deal. They MUST wear underwear.

Now, when they are with their parents I stay out of any discipline. I never even intruded on my DD and DSIL when they lived with me. There would never be a day when I would overstep by disciplining, enforcing or in any way, shape or form intruding on a parent's rules. I am not supporting a child back talking an adult, however I would let Mom and Dad handle it. The furthest I would go if a kid backtalked me or was rude would be to say "Excuse me?" and move on. I can honestly say that not one of my family members, or the kids who I cared for ever did this. My question to you is why did your nephew back talk you? I have never needed a parent to intervene for me in regards to how children spoke to me, but I believe there is a reason for that.

I was once told by my peers who worked with me, and who were know to have trashy mouths that they could never slip in front of me. I asked why. The explanation was that there was something about me that made them remember their manners. The young man was complimenting me rather than complaining about the way they minded their mouths. Perhaps you should look at why a 5 YO was so emboldened that he defied you.

Seriously? So, OP is not in charge of the child but deserves the blame for the child's behavior?

 

[Nancyg56]

Seriously? So, OP is not in charge of the child but deserves the blame for the child's behavior?

I am not at all sure I said that the OP was to blame. I did say that I have never had an issue with children speaking back to me, and that perhaps the OP might want to look at why the child speaks back to her. Just upthread she has since explained the child speaks like this to everyone. Again, this is not my own experience. My DH nephew was a freshie. A selfish and outspoken child who was not taught to share, to use manners, or to refrain from telling some adults which way the wind should blow. Fine. When he was with us explained what WE expected from him in terms of sharing, etc. and use of manners in a restaurant. His were shall we say, less than stellar. DH told him that it would be his choice to join us, however we would leave and take him home if he did notpolish those manner up immediately. It did not hurt that my nephew was with us and he told the boy "They mean it!" I never raised my voice, and still will not, however when we gave him a birthday gift and her threw it on the floor declaring "This is garbage!" I simply picked it up and placed it back in my bag, and said that Uncle and I were sorry he felt that way. The kid almost fell down. Mom and Dad looked shocked. I did not say a word nor did my DH and we took the gift back home. I never needed to ask for good manners again.


There are ways to teach children what your own expectations are, and while my tactics may not always work, they have a pretty good track record. I did have an epic fail, and that was a young undisciplined cousin of DH. When she was given the choice to come with us but with teh behaviors we expected, or stay home, she chose to stay home. She also was less than kind for her birthday gift, but she did nto improve. No more presents for her.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I never raised my voice, and still will not, however when we gave him a birthday gift and her threw it on the floor declaring "This is garbage!" I simply picked it up and placed it back in my bag, and said that Uncle and I were sorry he felt that way. The kid almost fell down. Mom and Dad looked shocked. I did not say a word nor did my DH and we took the gift back home. I never needed to ask for good manners again.

Heavens to Betsy! Someone fetch me the smelling salts!!

 

[kashzan]

So sad that the op comes on a discussion board to ask a question. She gets her answers , proceeds to argue with the people that give her their opinions, and then continues to bash her family, and their child.
WOW just WOW

 

[moon]

Obviously she doesnt have an issue or she would jump up and grab clothes when family stops by which is daily as they live down the street and were a daily part of my kids’ lives since birth. They changed their dailpers etc. of course my kids leave the home fullt clothed. But I raised my kids to not be ashamed of their bodies. And what is wrong with underwear. MY DD’s cover more than some of these super short shorts teenies wear in public

OK, accuse me of being a pearl-clutcher and and anything you want, but I will say this. A 12 year-old girl is nothing like a baby or toddler. They changed her diapers, but she is now a pre-teen. Her innocence may not be shared by others, and I just don't think that it is appropriate for a child that age to be wearing only a shirt and panties around men, relatives or not.

Let the flames and ridicule began

 

[disykat]

I am not at all sure I said that the OP was to blame. I did say that I have never had an issue with children speaking back to me, and that perhaps the OP might want to look at why the child speaks back to her. Just upthread she has since explained the child speaks like this to everyone. Again, this is not my own experience. My DH nephew was a freshie. A selfish and outspoken child who was not taught to share, to use manners, or to refrain from telling some adults which way the wind should blow. Fine. When he was with us explained what WE expected from him in terms of sharing, etc. and use of manners in a restaurant. His were shall we say, less than stellar. DH told him that it would be his choice to join us, however we would leave and take him home if he did notpolish those manner up immediately. It did not hurt that my nephew was with us and he told the boy "They mean it!" I never raised my voice, and still will not, however when we gave him a birthday gift and her threw it on the floor declaring "This is garbage!" I simply picked it up and placed it back in my bag, and said that Uncle and I were sorry he felt that way. The kid almost fell down. Mom and Dad looked shocked. I did not say a word nor did my DH and we took the gift back home. I never needed to ask for good manners again.


There are ways to teach children what your own expectations are, and while my tactics may not always work, they have a pretty good track record. I did have an epic fail, and that was a young undisciplined cousin of DH. When she was given the choice to come with us but with teh behaviors we expected, or stay home, she chose to stay home. She also was less than kind for her birthday gift, but she did nto improve. No more presents for her.

I would disagree with your assertion that you never interfered with parent's discipline. I actually have no issue with your tactics, but you can't say OP interfered and you would never, because you gave clear examples of when parents were there and you took over discipline.

I honestly doubt there are many people who've never been around when a child was being naughty and their own parent doesn't deal with it. I would venture that most of us use what we think is our best judgement at the time with varied results. I've "disciplined" total strangers children at times (like the time a stranger's child put a gecko on me at a Costco in Hawaii and mom said nothing so I gave him a gentle talking to about how it wasn't appropriate) so I just don't get the people who say they would never.

 

[DaddysPrincess]

My sister has had him tested and everything comes back as he is developing within normal ranges.

sounds like he's just a b-r-a-t and that he's allowed to get away with whatever. Lucky for you, it's not your responsibility to discipline him (at least in this situation). Your SIL probably sees the fault in her unproative approach but just won't admit it. That means she'd have to change and actually put effort in fighting him. Again, not really your responsibility. Even if she does think she's "so right", most people I'm sure realize what's going on and see she's not the greatest at parenting. No need to bring it up by putting their issues into the spotlight. I can't imagine it's very fun at get-togethers when people are feuding with each other

 

[Hrhpd]

I would disagree with your assertion that you never interfered with parent's discipline. I actually have no issue with your tactics, but you can't say OP interfered and you would never, because you gave clear examples of when parents were there and you took over discipline.

I honestly doubt there are many people who've never been around when a child was being naughty and their own parent doesn't deal with it. I would venture that most of us use what we think is our best judgement at the time with varied results. I've "disciplined" total strangers children at times (like the time a stranger's child put a gecko on me at a Costco in Hawaii and mom said nothing so I gave him a gentle talking to about how it wasn't appropriate) so I just don't get the people who say they would never.

But being in his underoos is not being naughty. Nothing is going to break, nobody is getting hurt (except for someone else's pearls if they don't agree), thus there is absolutely NO reason to impose their moral standards on a child which they know are different from the parents.

As said above, you may disagree with a child not wearing pants to dinner, but that is a family decision. The only thing you can control is whether you want to go over to the house if it makes you uncomfortable and how you raise YOUR children.

How would the OP like it if she came over and told her 8 year old daughter to go put on bikini pants before dinner? I would lay down a very large Vegas bet that the OP would not appreciate the interference.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I’ve got a quick question for those who think 5 year old boys should wear pants all the time. Out of curiosity, should girls wear pants/shorts under dresses?

Is this a double standard? Is the pant less boy okay if his shirt is hanging down to his knees cause it’s two sizes too big?

Is the 12 year old girl okay if her T-shirt hangs down to her knees?

My DD does wear shorts or leggings under dresses or skirts (or wears the cotton skirts with the built in shorts underneath). When she was a little baby and wore dresses, she wore the fabric diaper cover thingies over her diaper or a onesie underneath. She always wears shorts underneath nightgowns if she's staying at relatives' houses overnight and does at home if she's going to be playing for a while before bed or in the morning in her nightgown. She's 8 now and this has been how she's been raised since she was a baby.

My son is almost 3 and it's been virtually the same for him. When he was a baby, he sometimes didn't wear pants or shorts at home only, but always had a onesie. The only reason we didn't always have bottoms over the onesie on him at home was he had low weight issues for a while and it was difficult to find bottoms that were small enough to stay on him as he rolled around on the floor. They'd fall down and his legs would get tangled in them. Once he gained a little weight, he wore shorts or pants always and still does.

DH and I don't walk around in our underwear at home, neither do the kids.

No double standard in this house.

 

[Hrhpd]

Nope he was told not to back talk.

So they addressed the back talk. That doesn't address the underlying reasons why he might have said it.

You are perfectly in the right to think their parenting is horrendous.

You are absolutely in the wrong to impose your parenting on the child.

AND as a guest in your sister's house, you have no rights. You have no rights as a guest to dine without a 5 year old in dinner. If you know the child does this, and it impacts your ability to enjoy your dinner so severely, decline further invitations.

And maybe, talk to your sister and tell her that having her son in underwear is extremely upsetting to you, that it impacts your ability to enjoy your evening, and that you cannot accept further invitations.

 

[Hrhpd]

Seriously? So, OP is not in charge of the child but deserves the blame for the child's behavior?

So you are ok with relatives and strangers ordering your children to do something that you have already given them permission to do, without discussing it with you first? That a relative or a stranger can usurp your parenting and impose their values on your children without your permission?

 

[disykat]

But being in his underoos is not being naughty. Nothing is going to break, nobody is getting hurt (except for someone else's pearls if they don't agree), thus there is absolutely NO reason to impose their moral standards on a child which they know are different from the parents.

As said above, you may disagree with a child not wearing pants to dinner, but that is a family decision. The only thing you can control is whether you want to go over to the house if it makes you uncomfortable and how you raise YOUR children.

How would the OP like it if she came over and told her 8 year old daughter to go put on bikini pants before dinner? I would lay down a very large Vegas bet that the OP would not appreciate the interference.

So you are ok with relatives and strangers ordering your children to do something that you have already given them permission to do, without discussing it with you first. That a relative or a stranger can usurp your parenting and impose their values on your children without your permission?

In both cases I quoted the specific post I was referring to. I'm not sure why you quoted me as if I was addressing the OP with the statements you quoted?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My DD does wear shorts or leggings under dresses or skirts (or wears the cotton skirts with the built in shorts underneath).

When I wore dresses or skirts to school yeah they required it I probably wore them when I was a little kid but as I got older I very much doubt I wore shorts under dresses.

She always wears shorts underneath nightgowns if she's staying at relatives' houses overnight and does at home if she's going to be playing for a while before bed or in the morning in her nightgown.

I would be burning up if I had to do that.

True story my stepmom was a tad strange about things. One time when she got me a nightgown I had the audacity to politely disagree with wanting to wear it. I never liked night gowns they were uncomfortable to me and I preferred a shirt and shorts or no shorts at all and just shirt (underwear still on). Well she decided I couldn't defy her and forced me to wear a nightgown everytime I was over there for 8 weeks straight. Like I said she was a tad strange. Finally she relented. My mom was really upset too and so was I-I was extremely uncomfortable, hot, the nightgown was itchy, etc. But since my stepmom liked nightgowns appearantly I should too. I suppose on the upside she didn't force me to wear shorts underneath. I don't even think I've heard of someone doing that with nightgowns. Not saying anything against your daughter wearing them but me not wearing them underneath certaintly didn't mean I lacked modesty or manners-not saying you're saying that it just sounded like you were saying that's what you're supposed to do when wearing a nightgown. FWIW none of my friends did that. They just wore shirts and shorts or shirts and pants if during the wintertime (I can't sleep well in pants as I get too hot).

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

But being in his underoos is not being naughty. Nothing is going to break, nobody is getting hurt (except for someone else's pearls if they don't agree), thus there is absolutely NO reason to impose their moral standards on a child which they know are different from the parents.

As said above, you may disagree with a child not wearing pants to dinner, but that is a family decision. The only thing you can control is whether you want to go over to the house if it makes you uncomfortable and how you raise YOUR children.

How would the OP like it if she came over and told her 8 year old daughter to go put on bikini pants before dinner? I would lay down a very large Vegas bet that the OP would not appreciate the interference.

There's a HUGE difference in telling a child to put pants on over their underwear and telling a child they need to put on a bikini instead of whatever other pants or shorts she had on.

Just as you say no one is getting hurt by a kid wearing just underwear, no one is getting hurt by telling the kid to put on pants.

Everyone keeps trying to say that OP is going against the parentS of this little boy by asking home to put on pants. Everyone seems to be ignoring that the father wanted the little boy to wear pants and told his son to as well... Before the mom ever said anything. If both parents had said they were okay with him not wearing pants, it might be a slightly different scenario, but the OP asked the boy to put on pants, then the father did. When the boys didn't, OP again reminded him, and that's when the mom got involved. OP told the mom that the father told the boy to put on pants and the mom chose not to push the issue. At that point, it wasn't about the OP, it was about the father telling the kid to do something and the kid not listening.

Obviously, the boy's parents weren't on the same page, but that doesn't negate the father telling the kid to put on pants and the OP letting her sister know that the father had said so. Kids like to play one parent off the other and personally, I like when another adult lets me know if DH said something to the kids and I'm about to do the opposite, because then I'm not unknowingly reinforcing that behavior that if you don't get the answer you want you go to the other parent.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

When I wore dresses or skirts to school yeah they required it I probably wore them when I was a little kid but as I got older I very much doubt I wore shorts under dresses.

I would be burning up if I had to do that.

True story my stepmom was a tad strange about things. One time when she got me a nightgown I had the audacity to politely disagree with wanting to wear it. I never liked night gowns they were uncomfortable to me and I preferred a shirt and shorts or no shorts at all and just shirt (underwear still on). Well she decided I couldn't defy her and forced me to wear a nightgown everytime I was over there for 8 weeks straight. Like I said she was a tad strange. Finally she relented. My mom was really upset too and so was I-I was extremely uncomfortable, hot, the nightgown was itchy, etc. But since my stepmom liked nightgowns appearantly I should too. I suppose on the upside she didn't force me to wear shorts underneath. I don't even think I've heard of someone doing that with nightgowns. Not saying anything against your daughter wearing them but me not wearing them underneath certaintly didn't mean I lacked modesty or manners-not saying you're saying that it just sounded like you were saying that's what you're supposed to do when wearing a nightgown. FWIW none of my friends did that. They just wore shirts and shorts or shirts and pants if during the wintertime (I can't sleep well in pants as I get too hot).

Sorry if it came across that I felt all little girls should wear shorts with nightgowns or even shorts with skirts and dresses. That's not my opinion at all. We have DD do it because, up until recently, she would play without the understanding of her underwear showing. This allows her to still play as she wants while still being modest and not flashing her underwear around. I by no means feel all girls should have to do so. When she sleeps, she's allowed to sleep however she wants and she sometimes will sleep without shorts if it's hot. In her room, she can be however she chooses and she has full privacy to do so. She also understands that she likes to do cartwheels and play on the swing and trampoline and stuff where dresses will fly up and now wants to wear something underneath.

Not all parents are the same and that's okay.

 

[BLAZEY]

There's a HUGE difference in telling a child to put pants on over their underwear and telling a child they need to put on a bikini instead of whatever other pants or shorts she had on.

Just as you say no one is getting hurt by a kid wearing just underwear, no one is getting hurt by telling the kid to put on pants.

Everyone keeps trying to say that OP is going against the parentS of this little boy by asking home to put on pants. Everyone seems to be ignoring that the father wanted the little boy to wear pants and told his son to as well... Before the mom ever said anything. If both parents had said they were okay with him not wearing pants, it might be a slightly different scenario, but the OP asked the boy to put on pants, then the father did. When the boys didn't, OP again reminded him, and that's when the mom got involved. OP told the mom that the father told the boy to put on pants and the mom chose not to push the issue. At that point, it wasn't about the OP, it was about the father telling the kid to do something and the kid not listening.

Obviously, the boy's parents weren't on the same page, but that doesn't negate the father telling the kid to put on pants and the OP letting her sister know that the father had said so. Kids like to play one parent off the other and personally, I like when another adult lets me know if DH said something to the kids and I'm about to do the opposite, because then I'm not unknowingly reinforcing that behavior that if you don't get the answer you want you go to the other parent.

Thank you. I can't like this enough. You got it!