Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[pahoben]

This situation your friend had sounds quite different from the situation I described (which by the way is not just a hypothetical made up story). In your friend's case, it sounds like baby was healthy but due to issues with the mother, both the mother and baby's life were at risk. No, I don't presume to tell your friend she should have aborted. But I do think that decision was hers to make, and not mine. Do you think you should have made the decision for your friend? Or do you think it was okay that she made her own medical decision? And I still want to know what you will tell my non-hypothetical example why you deserve to make her medical decision?

I couldn’t understand the reaction on the UNC campus of the women who attacked the pro life group that had photos of late term abortions. If you are pro choice you need to accept the outcome of your position. You can’t hide from it and those photos show the outcome.

I am pro choice and believe that moral and ethical decisions should be made by the individual and not the government but the individual must know what the outcome of the decision could be.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I didn't know shampoo and conditioner had genders. I mean I know there is some that matches certain men's cologne but those are very few. The rest of it is just shampoo.

Different marketingdifferent packaging, most importantly different pricing. Higher for women. Sure, baby shampoo or Suave isn't marketed by gender, so costs everybody buying from a given location the same amoint.]

Razor blades. Womens blades and disposable razors cost more

If a woman goes to a barber for a basic cut then yes, she should be charged the same.

But she probably won't be. That article indicates a $0 to $25 disparity, with the added cost being borne by the woman (who, remember, is already earning 2p% less than the man.)

Well actually, take the tools for example. LOTS of women's basic tool sets but most come in pink. So reckon how the man on the petite side feels using a pink hammer?

What makes it a woman's tool set aside from it being pink? I didn't see anything in the descriptions about the handles being smaller. Why even pink?

Any assumption that all women must believe in the activist views of one group, or they are 'sad'...

Nobody needs to be an activist to be a feminist. Nobody needs to be a radical feminist. There are diffdrent degrees of everything.

The larger percentages? Not ready for a baby, can't afford a baby and finished having children. Why does one take birth control? Hmmmm--same exact three answers. Coincidence?

Whose business is it? Certainly not a legislator's or a judge's or a president's.

(As an aside, I think the "rule of thumb" thing came along from the church - years & years ago, a man wasn't allowed to beat his wife w/ anything larger in circumference than his thumb.)

That is exactly the origin.

 

[luvsJack]

This situation your friend had sounds quite different from the situation I described (which by the way is not just a hypothetical made up story). In your friend's case, it sounds like baby was healthy but due to issues with the mother, both the mother and baby's life were at risk. No, I don't presume to tell your friend she should have aborted. But I do think that decision was hers to make, and not mine. Do you think you should have made the decision for your friend? Or do you think it was okay that she made her own medical decision? And I still want to know what you will tell my non-hypothetical example why you deserve to make her medical decision?

No the doctors said the baby would be severely disabled and wouldn’t live. Not that he was the healthy child he is. And my example is not hypothetical either. It happened. And she is very pro life.

What would I tell the mother you describe? All I would be able to do is pray with her.

I don’t pretend to have all the answers. I don’t claim to make decisions for anyone. But I do know that the facts are there. How many babies need to die because the pregnancy is unwanted so that the 3% of abortions that are justified stay legal. There has to be a happy medium that allows for these extreme cases but doesn’t allow for the death of so many healthy babies.

 

[luvsJack]

You do realize that what you described is the exact definition of pro-choice? Your "friend" was able to chose what do do with her own body based on her own personal beliefs and situation. No one legislated what she must do based on their personal beliefs, situation, or desire to be re-elected. No one threatened to imprison her based on her choices as they relate to her personal beliefs and situation.

Not sure why you have friend in quotations she is a real live breathing person.

All of what you say is true. But I cannot and will not be behind a choice that allows the death of a healthy baby.

Again I do not like the present laws that some states are passing. They go too far. But I am not pro choice.

 

[luvsJack]

Different marketingdifferent packaging, most importantly different pricing. Higher for women. Sure, baby shampoo or Suave isn't marketed by gender, so costs everybody buying from a given location the same amoint.]

Razor blades. Womens blades and disposable razors cost more


But she probably won't be. That article indicates a $0 to $25 disparity, with the added cost being borne by the woman (who, remember, is already earning 2p% less than the man.)

What makes it a woman's tool set aside from it being pink? I didn't see anything in the descriptions about the handles being smaller. Why even pink?

Nobody needs to be an activist to be a feminist. Nobody needs to be a radical feminist. There are diffdrent degrees of everything.

Whose business is it? Certainly not a legislator's or a judge's or a president's.


That is exactly the origin.

You need to read the descriptions more or look at them. They are smaller.

If a barber or hair dresser charges more for the same service based on gender then it’s time to complain. And report them.

Why would I pay more for a shampoo that is packaged for women? Why would anyone buy based on the packaging??

I haven’t noticed the razor blades so have no clue on that. I will look when shopping tomorrow.

Babies should have rights too. And don’t say in one breath (not you but pro choice people in general) that it’s not used for birth control when the largest number are in fact for birth control.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I don’t pretend to have all the answers. I don’t claim to make decisions for anyone. But I do know that the facts are there. How many babies need to die because the pregnancy is unwanted so that the 3% of abortions that are justified stay legal. There has to be a happy medium that allows for these extreme cases but doesn’t allow for the death of so many healthy babies.

But if you want to take away their choice, then you are making decisions for them.

I too agree there should be a happy medium, and I don't understand why a happy medium wouldn't be working to lower the abortion rates while simultaneously preserving choice and a woman's autonomy over her own body. Studying abortion rate statistics shows that certain policies have an affect - for instance abstinence only sex education is correlated with a higher abortion rate. So if you really want to reduce abortions, you would want to support comprehensive sex education. There are a number of policies that pro-life politicians favor which actually increase the abortion rate, and that is really incomprehensible to me. Abortion is not going away, whether it's legal or not. If you want to lower it, the best way (in my opinion) is to support the policies that lead to lower abortion rates.

 

[pahoben]

You need to read the descriptions more or look at them. They are smaller.

If a barber or hair dresser charges more for the same service based on gender then it’s time to complain. And report them.

Why would I pay more for a shampoo that is packaged for women? Why would anyone buy based on the packaging??

I haven’t noticed the razor blades so have no clue on that. I will look when shopping tomorrow.

Babies should have rights too. And don’t say in one breath (not you but pro choice people in general) that it’s not used for birth control when the largest number are in fact for birth control.

I understand that this is a very stark but if an individual decides to abort a fetus that is their decision. From my viewpoint it is better to abort a fetus than to bring another unwanted child into the world that then has a high probability of being a dysfunctional adult. In principle I have no problem accepting abortion as the last line of birth control if a women decides that is the best decision.

 

[YCCS]

You need to read the descriptions more or look at them. They are smaller.

If a barber or hair dresser charges more for the same service based on gender then it’s time to complain. And report them.

Why would I pay more for a shampoo that is packaged for women? Why would anyone buy based on the packaging??

I haven’t noticed the razor blades so have no clue on that. I will look when shopping tomorrow.

Babies should have rights too. And don’t say in one breath (not you but pro choice people in general) that it’s not used for birth control when the largest number are in fact for birth control.

Do you have proof of that? Legitimate, statistical proof from a non-biased source. I would like to see it.

Pro-life is a misnomer. The proper term is anti-choice. You don't want a woman to have a choice over her own body or reproductive rights.

 

[luvsJack]

But if you want to take away their choice, then you are making decisions for them.

I too agree there should be a happy medium, and I don't understand why a happy medium wouldn't be working to lower the abortion rates while simultaneously preserving choice and a woman's autonomy over her own body. Studying abortion rate statistics shows that certain policies have an affect - for instance abstinence only sex education is correlated with a higher abortion rate. So if you really want to reduce abortions, you would want to support comprehensive sex education. There are a number of policies that pro-life politicians favor which actually increase the abortion rate, and that is really incomprehensible to me. Abortion is not going away, whether it's legal or not. If you want to lower it, the best way (in my opinion) is to support the policies that lead to lower abortion rates.

We are talking about a living human. A baby. I cannot in good conscience get behind killing it.

I am all for sex education. And not abstinence only. Of course that isn’t productive. Dd had a health class that covered many things including sex education. Abstinence was only a small part of it. So I am unsure of where all this abstinence only sex Ed is taking place.

The heartbeat law passed in this state does not take away the choice. One just has to choose before a heartbeat is detected. I do wish exceptions were made for rape and incest. Exceptions are there for the health of the mother and the baby.

 

[luvsJack]

Do you have proof of that? Legitimate, statistical proof from a non-biased source. I would like to see it.

Pro-life is a misnomer. The proper term is anti-choice. You don't want a woman to have a choice over her own body or reproductive rights.

What choice does the baby get?

 

[dish rag]

Do you have proof of that? Legitimate, statistical proof from a non-biased source. I would like to see it.

Pro-life is a misnomer. The proper term is anti-choice. You don't want a woman to have a choice over her own body or reproductive rights.

Pro choice is a misnomer. The proper term is anti life.

 

[luvsJack]

Do you have proof of that? Legitimate, statistical proof from a non-biased source. I would like to see it.

Pro-life is a misnomer. The proper term is anti-choice. You don't want a woman to have a choice over her own body or reproductive rights.

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/induced-abortion-united-states

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3729671/

 

[pahoben]

What choice does the baby get?

Let’s ask this question within the Christian paradigm and assume the baby could make a rational decision. The question is then which do you prefer-
1) live a life even though your mother doesn’t want you and you will suffer the result of that each and every day or
2) go to heaven and live with God and under his care.

What choice would you make?

 

[Hrhpd]

I have a very good friend that lived through a terrifying pregnancy.

She was told that she could very well die and the baby would die at worst and at best be severely handicapped. She was told she should abort but she refused. She was hospitalized and it was again stressed to her that both she and her child would likely die. On the 24 and 25 of December she went home from the hospital to spend what she honestly believed would be her last Christmas with her older child. She went back to the hospital after Christmas and in a month or so delivered the child. The baby lived and is now a happy 5 year old. She also lived and is graduating from nursing school in a couple of months. So, tell me, should she have listened and gotten that abortion and killed that child who is now as healthy and as normal as can be?

We can go back and forth all day long with stories of children who should have been aborted , weren't and are normal. Or stores of pregnancies gone wrong so abortion seems necessary. But there is more to the debate than these stories.

https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/ This site has a table showing reasons for abortions. 3% are for POSSIBLE situations like you describe. Less than .5% are the rape victims that everyone goes on and on about. From another site, 92% are just unwanted pregnancies.

The larger percentages? Not ready for a baby, can't afford a baby and finished having children. Why does one take birth control? Hmmmm--same exact three answers. Coincidence?

I believe that the baby has rights. I do now, I will tomorrow and I will next week. Period.

Are you willing to open your home and adopt a baby with severe handicaps, shouldering the millions of dollars of out of pocket expenses, losing everything you own to take care of a child born to a teenager with severe handicaps? Without any excuses, would you say unequivocally yes?

Because, like in the past, many of these children will be put up for adoption. And nobody will adopt them. And then we go back to large warehouses of institutionalized children.

I could never abort myself, but I also could never tell another parent who has to make a devastating decision that their decision has to be according to my beliefs.

As I mentioned up thread, my mother had to make that decision. Someone was going to die. There was little chance that she would make it through like your friend. How do you make the decision on who is going to die? The mom of two toddlers that need her or the unborn baby? That decision needs to be between the parents, their doctors, and their spiritual beliefs

You are not pro-life if you say it is perfectly ok to kill a mother for the sake of a blastula or fetus.

 

[Hrhpd]

We are talking about a living human. A baby. I cannot in good conscience get behind killing it.

I am all for sex education. And not abstinence only. Of course that isn’t productive. Dd had a health class that covered many things including sex education. Abstinence was only a small part of it. So I am unsure of where all this abstinence only sex Ed is taking place.

The heartbeat law passed in this state does not take away the choice. One just has to choose before a heartbeat is detected. I do wish exceptions were made for rape and incest. Exceptions are there for the health of the mother and the baby.

The mother is a living human too.

 

[luvsJack]

Are you willing to open your home and adopt a baby with severe handicaps, shouldering the millions of dollars of out of pocket expenses, losing everything you own to take care of a child born to a teenager with severe handicaps? Without any excuses, would you say unequivocally yes?

Because, like in the past, many of these children will be put up for adoption. And nobody will adopt them. And then we go back to large warehouses of institutionalized children.

I could never abort myself, but I also could never tell another parent who has to make a devastating decision that their decision has to be according to my beliefs.

As I mentioned up thread, my mother had to make that decision. Someone was going to die. There was little chance that she would make it through like your friend. How do you make the decision on who is going to die? The mom of two toddlers that need her or the unborn baby? That decision needs to be between the parents, their doctors, and their spiritual beliefs

You are not pro-life if you say it is perfectly ok to kill a mother for the sake of a blastula or fetus.

I have already said I support the laws that give exceptions in extreme cases. I never said the life of the mother should be sacrificed.

 

[luvsJack]

The mother is a living human too.

And I never once said I would say she should put her life in danger.


Do all of you not realize that you are talking about very extreme cases? The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with the health of the mother or the child.

 

[Hrhpd]

I have already said I support the laws that give exceptions in extreme cases. I never said the life of the mother should be sacrificed.

So, your answer is no, you would not adopt a severely handicapped baby. In that case it is ok to "kill" some babies but not others?

 

[Hrhpd]

And I never once said I would say she should put her life in danger.


Do all of you not realize that you are talking about very extreme cases? The vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with the health of the mother or the child.

Actually, abortions are at their lowest point ever in this country. This is due to better education, better birth control, better access to doctors, etc. Convenience abortions are the exception not the rule in today's world.

The vast majority of today's abortions are all about the health of the mother or the child.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Let’s ask this question within the Christian paradigm and assume the baby could make a rational decision. The question is then which do you prefer-
1) live a life even though your mother doesn’t want you and you will suffer the result of that each and every day or
2) go to heaven and live with God and under his care.

What choice would you make?

For some reason this line of reasoning reminded me of Jim Jones.

To answer your question: If I was the baby in question, Number 1 for me please. Number 1 for me, every time.

Also, I can’t help but wonder if a gender-neutral pronoun would be preferred by most people when referring to God in this thread.