Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[pahoben]

She isn’t voiceless.

If she can’t make the decision to abort then her voice has been removed from the situation. She is a body with no control over the outcome so her voice has been removed.

 

[mummabear]

Really? And you would be wrong. I got pregnant at 17. Unplanned, unwanted. Very much a blessing, who is now my 37 year old son who I love more than life itself. But you have alllllll the answers right? At just over 18 I sat in my hospital bed with a tiny baby that I didn’t have a clue how to take care of and cried. But you know what? I learned and we grew together and I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.

It’s not about controlling women. Or punishing anyone. That is that self absorbed opinion of the pro choice. It’s not about the woman at all. It’s about a life. A tiny baby that has no voice, no choice. That didn’t ask to be conceived.

No, they weren't wrong. That was you, and your choice. That doesnt make it so for another women.
Would you be happy if you had been forced to abort that child? It's really no different than forcing someone to carry theirs.

I googled and found that you are actually wrong

That is possibly the funniest thing I have read today. So can you share the link?

And sadly that is the way most argue these laws and policies. The father or husband gets no voice

The husband/father isnt the one who has to carry and give birth.

But be realistic. How on earth would a woman in that situation have the surgery anyway? She can’t hide it. She can’t just go to the dr one day and be home that afternoon and have this done.

Sure she can hide it, she has support at work.

He marries a manipulative narcissist and he gets controlled by the children that he had no voice in making or he gets no voice in whether they have children. That’s not equality either.

Again, there is no way to be equal in this. At the end of the day, the burden on asking a women to carry and birth a baby is greater than the burden of the man's loss of rights.

Now that I think about it there was one time also in a bar. I interceded and am sure he didn’t strike a woman for a long long time after that if ever.

Either that or he felt his need to reassert his dominance and he beat his partner worse than ever before...

No, pro-life is not about being the boss of other women; it's about speaking for the babies who have no voice of their own.

The "babies" have no voice because they are not yet a baby. They are not viable on their own, and their "rights" dont outweigh that of their "host"

 

[kiddo76]

That's the male equivalent of personal responsibility /the male equivalent of "use your birth control properly and every time" ... but Biology makes it a bit less evident.

Yup.

 

[luvsJack]

If she can’t make the decision to abort then her voice has been removed from the situation. She is a body with no control over the outcome so her voice has been removed.

Just like the father, she had a voice before conception. (Not referring to rape victims, of course).

 

[luvsJack]

No, they weren't wrong. That was you, and your choice. That doesnt make it so for another women.
Would you be happy if you had been forced to abort that child? It's really no different than forcing someone to carry theirs.


That is possibly the funniest thing I have read today. So can you share the link?


The husband/father isnt the one who has to carry and give birth.



Sure she can hide it, she has support at work.



Again, there is no way to be equal in this. At the end of the day, the burden on asking a women to carry and birth a baby is greater than the burden of the man's loss of rights.



Either that or he felt his need to reassert his dominance and he beat his partner worse than ever before...



The "babies" have no voice because they are not yet a baby. They are not viable on their own, and their "rights" dont outweigh that of their "host"

She can hide the recovery time from surgery at work? And the hospital bill?

It’s a life. Whether it’s viable on its own has nothing to do with it. It is a living being that has its life taken from it. Is should have a voice.

 

[shelemm]

There are a lot of ways women get put down in our society, all of which you can Google for studies and the science regarding this. Doctors do not take their pain as seriously as men, and menstrual pain does not recieve much in the way of study or funding. They are often not believed when it comes to pain, so that something like ovarian cancer (see Golda Radner) goes for years undiagnosed. Same with the case of Shalon Irving, which lead to a large study of how black women are treated by doctors.

Women are offered lower starting pay than men, they are not seen as often as candidates for leadership positions, women are more likely to be the victim of domestic violence, especially gun violence. So gun control is not seen as a male/female issue. Want to know who the next school shooter is going to be? It's going to be a guy! And not a guy who was bullied because gay peole get bullied all the time but they are never the shooter either. It is hetero guys who are socially awkward and get rejected by girls. So blam, gun 'em down!

Women went for decades not believed about campus rape. So now Betsy DeVos has rolled back Obama era guidleines. Women were regualrly discouraged from filling out reports of rape off campus too, systematically their rape kits were thrown away or ignored. Oh, and reports of rape might skew the numbers on police effectiveness, so another reason to sweep it under the rug (see Adrian Schoolcraft).

I suppose many books have already been written on this subject. But my guess is that those books are not on your library shelf.

 

[kiddo76]

It’s a life. Whether it’s viable on its own has nothing to do with it. It is a living being that has its life taken from it. Is should have a voice.

But if it's rape, it's not a life?

 

[luvsJack]

But if it's rape, it's not a life?

I have answered that about 10 times. Just read on of the previous posts.

 

[ReneeA]

If it is fertilized in a Petri dish at the same stage of development as an embryo, should it have the same rights as one in a host? Neither can grow without a willing host.

 

[luvsJack]

There are a lot of ways women get put down in our society, all of which you can Google for studies and the science regarding this. Doctors do not take their pain as seriously as men, and menstrual pain does not recieve much in the way of study or funding. They are often not believed when it comes to pain, so that something like ovarian cancer (see Golda Radner) goes for years undiagnosed. Same with the case of Shalon Irving, which lead to a large study of how black women are treated by doctors.

Women are offered lower starting pay than men, they are not seen as often as candidates for leadership positions, women are more likely to be the victim of domestic violence, especially gun violence. So gun control is not seen as a male/female issue. Want to know who the next school shooter is going to be? It's going to be a guy! And not a guy who was bullied because gay peole get bullied all the time but they are never the shooter either. It is hetero guys who are socially awkward and get rejected by girls. So blam, gun 'em down!

Women went for decades not believed about campus rape. So now Betsy DeVos has rolled back Obama era guidleines. Women were regualrly discouraged from filling out reports of rape off campus too, systematically their rape kits were thrown away or ignored. Oh, and reports of rape might skew the numbers on police effectiveness, so another reason to sweep it under the rug (see Adrian Schoolcraft).

I suppose many books have already been written on this subject. But my guess is that those books are not on your library shelf.

Isn’t the first sign of ovarian cancer found in a pelvic exam?

According to what I just read, less than 1/3 of rapes are reported to the police. How do we change that? I mean that as a serious question. Who is discouraging them?

 

[luvsJack]

If it is fertilized in a Petri dish at the same stage of development as an embryo, should it have the same rights as one in a host? Neither can grow without a willing host.

Must we continue to speak in extreme circumstances? It’s a bit tiring.

 

[pahoben]

It all sounds nice, but I get the impression that you are using some kind of deductive reasoning or wishful thinking or personal anecdotes. There are so many studies that say that this not true. For math and computer sciences, the expected pay gap for recent doctoral grads is 14k, and that comes from a study by Nature. They do say that in chemistry, women may have even surpassed men! So there is progress. Though in general that is not where the big money is. The Nature study is hardly the only one.

It all sounds nice, but I get the impression that you are using some kind of deductive reasoning or wishful thinking or personal anecdotes. There are so many studies that say that this not true. For math and computer sciences, the expected pay gap for recent doctoral grads is 14k, and that comes from a study by Nature. They do say that in chemistry, women may have even surpassed men! So there is progress. Though in general that is not where the big money is. The Nature study is hardly the only one.

It all sounds nice, but I get the impression that you are using some kind of deductive reasoning or wishful thinking or personal anecdotes. There are so many studies that say that this not true. For math and computer sciences, the expected pay gap for recent doctoral grads is 14k, and that comes from a study by Nature. They do say that in chemistry, women may have even surpassed men! So there is progress. Though in general that is not where the big money is. The Nature study is hardly the only one.

I can only speak to engineering in the Oil and Gas industry and Petroleum Engineering in particular. If anything starting female petroleum engineers enjoy a starting premium at this time in oil and gas corporations because there are so few of them. To add independent support to this-all the oil companies subscribe to the equal pay act of 1963 and if they were to offer lower starting salaries to female engineers they would be sued in a heartbeat under the Equal Pay Act. Everyone loves to sue oil companies and this would happen routinely until the policy changed.

Throughout the world females comprise about 20% of graduating engineers. There are two outliers that I know of. The UK is 10% and India is 30% Canada, Australia, the US etc are all close to 20%. I suspect graduating petroleum engineers are a bit less than 20%. It is a pretty specialized area of engineering and not even offered at many engineering schools.

Women alreDy have recourse under the law so surprising that it is completely as you say for high paying high visibility technical jobs. It really is completely outside my experience with many years in engineering.

 

[kiddo76]

Must we continue to speak in extreme circumstances? It’s a bit tiring.

It's not extreme, it's called IVF.

 

[luvsJack]

It's not extreme, it's called IVF.

Do many women get IVF and choose abortion? And not for the health of the mother or child, we have been over that.

 

[pahoben]

I can only speak to engineering in the Oil and Gas industry and Petroleum Engineering in particular. If anything starting female petroleum engineers enjoy a starting premium at this time in oil and gas corporations because there are so few of them. To add independent support to this-all the oil companies subscribe to the equal pay act of 1963 and if they were to offer lower starting salaries to female engineers they would be sued in a heartbeat under the Equal Pay Act. Everyone loves to sue oil companies and this would happen routinely until the policy changed.

Throughout the world females comprise about 20% of graduating engineers. There are two outliers that I know of. The UK is 10% and India is 30% Canada, Australia, the US etc are all close to 20%. I suspect graduating petroleum engineers are a bit less than 20%. It is a pretty specialized area of engineering and not even offered at many engineering schools.

Women alreDy have recourse under the law so surprising that it is completely as you say for high paying high visibility technical jobs. It really is completely outside my experience with many years in engineering.

It all sounds nice, but I get the impression that you are using some kind of deductive reasoning or wishful thinking or personal anecdotes. There are so many studies that say that this not true. For math and computer sciences, the expected pay gap for recent doctoral grads is 14k, and that comes from a study by Nature. They do say that in chemistry, women may have even surpassed men! So there is progress. Though in general that is not where the big money is. The Nature study is hardly the only one.

A complicating factor is that you can earn a lot more money in Petroleum Engineering if you are willing to work in some violent disease ridden places around the world and many people just aren’t.

 

[pahoben]

Ignore

 

[kiddo76]

Do many women get IVF and choose abortion? And not for the health of the mother or child, we have been over that.

Happens all the time. Fertility clinics call it "selective reduction".

 

[pahoben]

There are a lot of ways women get put down in our society, all of which you can Google for studies and the science regarding this. Doctors do not take their pain as seriously as men, and menstrual pain does not recieve much in the way of study or funding. They are often not believed when it comes to pain, so that something like ovarian cancer (see Golda Radner) goes for years undiagnosed. Same with the case of Shalon Irving, which lead to a large study of how black women are treated by doctors.

Women are offered lower starting pay than men, they are not seen as often as candidates for leadership positions, women are more likely to be the victim of domestic violence, especially gun violence. So gun control is not seen as a male/female issue. Want to know who the next school shooter is going to be? It's going to be a guy! And not a guy who was bullied because gay peole get bullied all the time but they are never the shooter either. It is hetero guys who are socially awkward and get rejected by girls. So blam, gun 'em down!

Women went for decades not believed about campus rape. So now Betsy DeVos has rolled back Obama era guidleines. Women were regualrly discouraged from filling out reports of rape off campus too, systematically their rape kits were thrown away or ignored. Oh, and reports of rape might skew the numbers on police effectiveness, so another reason to sweep it under the rug (see Adrian Schoolcraft).

I suppose many books have already been written on this subject. But my guess is that those books are not on your library shelf.

Women have recourse under the law for wage discrimination. With all the medical barbarities you cite incredible that you have a longer life expectancy on average.

 

[Hrhpd]

I have answered that about 10 times. Just read on of the previous posts.

You have tried to justify why you think that some babies' lives are not worth saving while others are. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you say that it is about being a baby's voice, protecting the unborn who didn't ask to be conceived, preservation of life.

Then you say, weeeellllll...it is perfectly fine to kill babies under conditions x,y,z.

You are the definition of choice. You and the government are making choices on what babies will die.

If you are ok with some babies dying under your choices, then you should be perfectly ok with babies babies dying under a doctor's and mother's choice.

What makes your choice of which babies get to die more important than a doctor's or mother's choice?

 

[pahoben]

Happens all the time. Fertility clinics call it "selective reduction".

Also the case that extra frozen embryos after a successful implantation can be destroyed with no oversight.