Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[Hrhpd]

Do many women get IVF and choose abortion? And not for the health of the mother or child, we have been over that.

What about the embryos that are not implanted and are still in the petri dish?

I really hope you don't think IVF is an extreme outlier.

You ignored my question of what would you think if the next government decided that 17 was too young to take care of a child and mandated abortions mandatory for anyone under 18?

How would you feel about the government making those choices for your body?

Be careful what you wish for when you support government meddling in medicine because you open the door for further meddling.

 

[luvsJack]

Happens all the time. Fertility clinics call it "selective reduction".

I didn’t ask what it’s called. I know that. I asked how many. .3-.7%. Doesn’t seem that it really “happens all the time”.

 

[Hrhpd]

I didn’t ask what it’s called. I know that. I asked how many. .3-.7%. Doesn’t seem that it really “happens all the time”.

Would you please cite your sources for your statistics?

 

[luvsJack]

What about the embryos that are not implanted and are still in the petri dish?

I really hope you don't think IVF is an extreme outlier.

You ignored my question of what would you think if the next government decided that 17 was too young to take care of a child and mandated abortions mandatory for anyone under 18?

How would you feel about the government making those choices for your body?

Be careful what you wish for when you support government meddling in medicine because you open the door for further meddling.

I have a sneaky suspicion that some of you are very choosy about what you see as government meddling and what you do not.

Would you please cite your sources for your statistics?

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

 

[pahoben]

I have a sneaky suspicion that some of you are very choosy about what you see as government meddling and what you do not.





http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

I am not guilty of your suspicion.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

And you honestly feel that is equal?

She has the choice to end the pregnancy of a child he may want. He has no voice.

She can choose to keep the child that he may not want and has the ability to keep said child away from him by simply leaving him off the birth certificate. And he has no voice.

But yet when she wants him to take monetary responsibility suddenly he is the father.

Why is his responsibility held differently from her’s?

When he carries the child for nine months, deals with the back pain and the stretch marks, the morning sickness, the sleeplessness, the extreme exhaustion, the hormones...then he can choose whether or not to have that baby. Should she take his feelings INTO consideration?Sure (again, except in the case of rape/incest, then he can go jump right off the Golden Gate), but until he carries the baby, he doesn't get to make the decision for her body.

 

[Hrhpd]

Back to the feminist question, I just returned this afternoon from a bridal shower of a family member.

I didn't realize people still believed this way but did make me understand some of the responses better on this thread.

It was a bunch of older women telling an engineer in her early 30's that she needed to be submissive to her husband. And there was no hidden meaning because they spent the next hour giving examples like she needed to always have dinner on the table, that the home was the husband's haven (even after it was brought up that she was the main breadwinner,) that she must acquiesce to the husband's wishes, that his word was always final no matter what, that it was her job to keep the children quiet when the "man" came home, and on and on. The women were miffed when asked what the men do for the women and their answer was that woman was created to serve man.

There is a whole group out there that actually believes a woman's job is to subjugate herself to the man.

I don't think they noticed the bride rolling her eyes at the women.

But it is these attitudes that keep women as 2nd class citizens, the women who believe that men should be allowed to give permission for a woman to do something. It was stunning to hear these women actually want to be submissive.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Back to the feminist question, I just returned this afternoon from a bridal shower of a family member.

I didn't realize people still believed this way but did make me understand some of the responses better on this thread.

It was a bunch of older women telling an engineer in her early 30's that she needed to be submissive to her husband. And there was no hidden meaning because they spent the next hour giving examples like she needed to always have dinner on the table, that the home was the husband's haven (even after it was brought up that she was the main breadwinner,) that she must acquiesce to the husband's wishes, that his word was always final no matter what, that it was her job to keep the children quiet when the "man" came home, and on and on. The women were miffed when asked what the men do for the women and their answer was that woman was created to serve man.

There is a whole group out there that actually believes a woman's job is to subjugate herself to the man.

I don't think they noticed the bride rolling her eyes at the women.

But it is these attitudes that keep women as 2nd class citizens, the women who believe that men should be allowed to give permission for a woman to do something. It was stunning to hear these women actually want to be submissive.

Gross.

 

[Hrhpd]

I am not guilty of your suspicion.

neither am I

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Back to the feminist question, I just returned this afternoon from a bridal shower of a family member.

I didn't realize people still believed this way but did make me understand some of the responses better on this thread.

It was a bunch of older women telling an engineer in her early 30's that she needed to be submissive to her husband. And there was no hidden meaning because they spent the next hour giving examples like she needed to always have dinner on the table, that the home was the husband's haven (even after it was brought up that she was the main breadwinner,) that she must acquiesce to the husband's wishes, that his word was always final no matter what, that it was her job to keep the children quiet when the "man" came home, and on and on. The women were miffed when asked what the men do for the women and their answer was that woman was created to serve man.

There is a whole group out there that actually believes a woman's job is to subjugate herself to the man.

I don't think they noticed the bride rolling her eyes at the women.

But it is these attitudes that keep women as 2nd class citizens, the women who believe that men should be allowed to give permission for a woman to do something. It was stunning to hear these women actually want to be submissive.

I've been talking about my father-in-law's new wife that way for months on the Boards because of the comments she says (things like dinner, laundry, cleaning, she was appalled that I hyphenated my name, etc) Yes it's still out there sometimes in full force.

To be fair for some people (not talking about father-in-law's new wife) it is a cultural thing.

I've been married for over 6 years now. Somehow the fact that my husband and I picked out my ring together equates to "I don't trust him" to pick out a ring for me (you know the thing I'm wearing for the rest of my life). Somehow the fact that I opted to hyphenate my name equates to "I don't love him enough" or "I'm not honoring him" and like I said in my earlier comment way back these comments are coming from other women not men at least IME. And to be fair it's not just older women. I've heard it all from women of all ages.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

You have tried to justify why you think that some babies' lives are not worth saving while others are. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you say that it is about being a baby's voice, protecting the unborn who didn't ask to be conceived, preservation of life.

Then you say, weeeellllll...it is perfectly fine to kill babies under conditions x,y,z.

You are the definition of choice. You and the government are making choices on what babies will die.

If you are ok with some babies dying under your choices, then you should be perfectly ok with babies babies dying under a doctor's and mother's choice.

What makes your choice of which babies get to die more important than a doctor's or mother's choice?

/applause
It should not be up to you or a politician to decide what happens to a clump of cells in another person's body. It is up to the person whose body those cells are in.

Back to the feminist question, I just returned this afternoon from a bridal shower of a family member.

I didn't realize people still believed this way but did make me understand some of the responses better on this thread.

It was a bunch of older women telling an engineer in her early 30's that she needed to be submissive to her husband. And there was no hidden meaning because they spent the next hour giving examples like she needed to always have dinner on the table, that the home was the husband's haven (even after it was brought up that she was the main breadwinner,) that she must acquiesce to the husband's wishes, that his word was always final no matter what, that it was her job to keep the children quiet when the "man" came home, and on and on. The women were miffed when asked what the men do for the women and their answer was that woman was created to serve man.

There is a whole group out there that actually believes a woman's job is to subjugate herself to the man.

I don't think they noticed the bride rolling her eyes at the women.

But it is these attitudes that keep women as 2nd class citizens, the women who believe that men should be allowed to give permission for a woman to do something. It was stunning to hear these women actually want to be submissive.

My mother in law tried pulling something similar with me one day last October. In our house, DH works, I stay home. It has not always been the case; there have been times when we've both worked, times when it was just me, and times when we were both out of work. I tend to do the majority of housework, cooking, laundry, shopping, etc. DH will do it, but for now, with me being at home, I find it makes me feel better.

Anyways, she stayed with us for a brief time (thank goodness...that's a whole nother story). I was making dinner, and I made up plates for everyone, as I usually do, and called them all to dinner. After dinner, DH and DS put their plates in the dishwasher. She turned to DH and asked why he didn't just leave the plate for me to clean up. He told her that he was perfectly capable of rinsing and putting a plate in the dishwasher. I just looked at her, and told DS he was on kitchen duty that night. DS cleaned the kitchen, and she just sat there, like it was some amazing thing. IDK why, as DH was the one cleaning her house when he still lived at home.

A few days later, I grabbed the car keys (we only have one car) and told DH I was going shopping and then to get my hair cut. I asked my MIL if she wanted to go, and she got ready and we left. As I was backing out of the driveway, she asked if DH gave me enough money to get my hair done and to buy what I wanted. I stopped and blinked at her, and said I had my own credit cards, and while yes, DH's money earned from work paid the bills on them, if I wanted to buy a new outfit or a pair of shoes or get my hair dyed purple and pink polka dots, I would not ask DH for permission. Blew her mind, I think.

My DDs teamed up and got me a new Kitchenaid stand mixer for Christmas. When she saw it, her comment was "their husbands must like you, to let them spend that money on you." I just laughed at her and told her both my girls work, and they work with their husbands on their finances, just as I do with DH, but their husbands had no say so in what they spend their money on.

She only lasted 4ish months at my house. (again, a long story)

 

[pahoben]

I've been talking about my father-in-law's new wife that way for months on the Boards because of the comments she says (things like dinner, laundry, cleaning, she was appalled that I hyphenated my name, etc) Yes it's still out there sometimes in full force.

To be fair for some people (not talking about father-in-law's new wife) it is a cultural thing.

I've been married for over 6 years now. Somehow the fact that my husband and I picked out my ring together equates to "I don't trust him" to pick out a ring for me (you know the thing I'm wearing for the rest of my life). Somehow the fact that I opted to hyphenate my name equates to "I don't love him enough" or "I'm not honoring him" and like I said in my earlier comment way back these comments are coming from other women not men at least IME. And to be fair it's not just older women. I've heard it all from women of all ages.

I thought everyone picked out the rings together so this is new to me. I wouldn’t think of buying without my wife’s input since she has to wear it. I also helped her pick mine because I would be wearing it and I just wanted a thin simple ring.

 

[Hrhpd]

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

How about a link from a independent actual scientific study instead an article from a far right wing, extremely biased website, whice defines itself as

"The History, Policies and Sacred Accounting, and the Means to Restore Protection of Human Life."​

The author picks and chooses small snippets of information from CDC and other legitimate articles and then manipulates and twists them to fit his agenda. Being able to cite the CDC apparently is thought to make the article seem legitimate.

I read his article and read the CDC study he cherry picked from. Not even close.

 

[pahoben]

/applause
It should not be up to you or a politician to decide what happens to a clump of cells in another person's body. It is up to the person whose body those cells are in.



My mother in law tried pulling something similar with me one day last October. In our house, DH works, I stay home. It has not always been the case; there have been times when we've both worked, times when it was just me, and times when we were both out of work. I tend to do the majority of housework, cooking, laundry, shopping, etc. DH will do it, but for now, with me being at home, I find it makes me feel better.

Anyways, she stayed with us for a brief time (thank goodness...that's a whole nother story). I was making dinner, and I made up plates for everyone, as I usually do, and called them all to dinner. After dinner, DH and DS put their plates in the dishwasher. She turned to DH and asked why he didn't just leave the plate for me to clean up. He told her that he was perfectly capable of rinsing and putting a plate in the dishwasher. I just looked at her, and told DS he was on kitchen duty that night. DS cleaned the kitchen, and she just sat there, like it was some amazing thing. IDK why, as DH was the one cleaning her house when he still lived at home.

A few days later, I grabbed the car keys (we only have one car) and told DH I was going shopping and then to get my hair cut. I asked my MIL if she wanted to go, and she got ready and we left. As I was backing out of the driveway, she asked if DH gave me enough money to get my hair done and to buy what I wanted. I stopped and blinked at her, and said I had my own credit cards, and while yes, DH's money earned from work paid the bills on them, if I wanted to buy a new outfit or a pair of shoes or get my hair dyed purple and pink polka dots, I would not ask DH for permission. Blew her mind, I think.

My DDs teamed up and got me a new Kitchenaid stand mixer for Christmas. When she saw it, her comment was "their husbands must like you, to let them spend that money on you." I just laughed at her and told her both my girls work, and they work with their husbands on their finances, just as I do with DH, but their husbands had no say so in what they spend their money on.

She only lasted 4ish months at my house. (again, a long story)

/applause
It should not be up to you or a politician to decide what happens to a clump of cells in another person's body. It is up to the person whose body those cells are in.



My mother in law tried pulling something similar with me one day last October. In our house, DH works, I stay home. It has not always been the case; there have been times when we've both worked, times when it was just me, and times when we were both out of work. I tend to do the majority of housework, cooking, laundry, shopping, etc. DH will do it, but for now, with me being at home, I find it makes me feel better.

Anyways, she stayed with us for a brief time (thank goodness...that's a whole nother story). I was making dinner, and I made up plates for everyone, as I usually do, and called them all to dinner. After dinner, DH and DS put their plates in the dishwasher. She turned to DH and asked why he didn't just leave the plate for me to clean up. He told her that he was perfectly capable of rinsing and putting a plate in the dishwasher. I just looked at her, and told DS he was on kitchen duty that night. DS cleaned the kitchen, and she just sat there, like it was some amazing thing. IDK why, as DH was the one cleaning her house when he still lived at home.

A few days later, I grabbed the car keys (we only have one car) and told DH I was going shopping and then to get my hair cut. I asked my MIL if she wanted to go, and she got ready and we left. As I was backing out of the driveway, she asked if DH gave me enough money to get my hair done and to buy what I wanted. I stopped and blinked at her, and said I had my own credit cards, and while yes, DH's money earned from work paid the bills on them, if I wanted to buy a new outfit or a pair of shoes or get my hair dyed purple and pink polka dots, I would not ask DH for permission. Blew her mind, I think.

My DDs teamed up and got me a new Kitchenaid stand mixer for Christmas. When she saw it, her comment was "their husbands must like you, to let them spend that money on you." I just laughed at her and told her both my girls work, and they work with their husbands on their finances, just as I do with DH, but their husbands had no say so in what they spend their money on.

She only lasted 4ish months at my house. (again, a long story)

I have worked in some rough and tumble situations outside the US and my philosophy always was-if you look like prey you will be eaten. I never looked like prey and neither should any women. Nothing good will come of it. No problem in being fair but if you look like prey things don’t go well for anyone and in particular you.

 

[Searc]

She isn’t voiceless.

In some states, a woman has become nothing more than a voiceless incubator for a mass of cells.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I thought everyone picked out the rings together so this is new to me. I wouldn’t think of buying without my wife’s input since she has to wear it. I also helped her pick mine because I would be wearing it and I just wanted a thin simple ring.

It's becoming more common for couples to shop together but traditionally the man has picked out the ring though at times getting help by close people to the future bride.

I do know for some they wouldn't have wanted to know he was proposing so obviously looking for rings together would spill the beans so to speak.

Frequently people ask to look closely at my ring and they'll say "oh it's so beautiful/pretty/wow" and then it's nearly always followed by "he did good" to which I politely explain "oh we picked it out together"

 

[Searc]

You have tried to justify why you think that some babies' lives are not worth saving while others are. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you say that it is about being a baby's voice, protecting the unborn who didn't ask to be conceived, preservation of life.

Then you say, weeeellllll...it is perfectly fine to kill babies under conditions x,y,z.

You are the definition of choice. You and the government are making choices on what babies will die.

If you are ok with some babies dying under your choices, then you should be perfectly ok with babies babies dying under a doctor's and mother's choice.

What makes your choice of which babies get to die more important than a doctor's or mother's choice?

 

[Searc]

Back to the feminist question, I just returned this afternoon from a bridal shower of a family member.

I didn't realize people still believed this way but did make me understand some of the responses better on this thread.

It was a bunch of older women telling an engineer in her early 30's that she needed to be submissive to her husband. And there was no hidden meaning because they spent the next hour giving examples like she needed to always have dinner on the table, that the home was the husband's haven (even after it was brought up that she was the main breadwinner,) that she must acquiesce to the husband's wishes, that his word was always final no matter what, that it was her job to keep the children quiet when the "man" came home, and on and on. The women were miffed when asked what the men do for the women and their answer was that woman was created to serve man.

There is a whole group out there that actually believes a woman's job is to subjugate herself to the man.

I don't think they noticed the bride rolling her eyes at the women.

But it is these attitudes that keep women as 2nd class citizens, the women who believe that men should be allowed to give permission for a woman to do something. It was stunning to hear these women actually want to be submissive.

Oh good god, I hope all the educated women there laughed in their faces and told them to stuff it ~ politely, of course.

 

[Searc]

How about a link from a independent actual scientific study instead an article from a far right wing, extremely biased website, whice defines itself as

"The History, Policies and Sacred Accounting, and the Means to Restore Protection of Human Life."​

The author picks and chooses small snippets of information from CDC and other legitimate articles and then manipulates and twists them to fit his agenda. Being able to cite the CDC apparently is thought to make the article seem legitimate.

I read his article and read the CDC study he cherry picked from. Not even close.

Thanks, you beat me to it.

 

[pahoben]

It's becoming more common for couples to shop together but traditionally the man has picked out the ring though at times getting help by close people to the future bride.

I do know for some they wouldn't have wanted to know he was proposing so obviously looking for rings together would spill the beans so to speak.

Frequently people ask to look closely at my ring and they'll say "oh it's so beautiful/pretty/wow" and then it's nearly always followed by "he did good" to which I politely explain "oh we picked it out together"

Now I understand my puzzlement and please excuse me for this story. After we had been married for around 15 years (we lived together a couple years before that) my wife said-you never did buy an engagement ring even though you said you would and I replied indignantly-well yes I did. I thought about it and realized she was right and then we went together and bought an engagement ring.