Virginia Beach: 11 people killed in mass shooting, police say

[MrsPete]

They walk thousands of miles to get here and you would direct them to walk thousands more or to cross an ocean?

No, most immigrants -- legal or not -- aren't walking thousands of miles. They're flying into American airports as if they're on vacation, then they're just not leaving.

They are international mass murder.

Agree. I can understand -- not condone, but understand -- being angry with a specific person /wanting to hurt that person. Not that it's right to follow through with it, but I can grasp the motivation. On the other hand, thrashing out at strangers, not knowing who will be killed /hurt /emotionally scared ... that's a whole different thought process. That's blatant disregard for humanity.

I'd vote for mandatory death penalty for anyone who shoots randomly in a public setting. No chance for appeal. Don't care if you're mentally ill. If you shoot up a public place, kill and scar strangers for life, we don't need you among the living.

We all accept that "accidents" will happen when operating machinery and we do what we can to mitigate them. We all accept that tornadoes and hurricanes happen and we can't control it. Accepting that mass shootings are like that is pretty sad.

When I was taking driver's ed as a teen, Coach Chance said, "There's no such thing as an accident. Call 'em what they are: wrecks. Wrecks don't happen by accident -- they happen because someone made a bad choice." I think he was a little too black-and-white in his answer, but this is mostly true.

I believe it is our society's crumbling mental health. I believe tip toeing around people that are mentally ill, making excuses for the mentally ill, and not properly helping the mentally ill has much to do with the daily gun murders.

I don't know that it's mental illness entirely ... though our obsession with phones and technology /our lessened attachment to one another as human beings is definitely a big part of this problem.

Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days.

Agree.

For starters, the mass media needs to drastically change how they portray mass shooting suspect(s). They need to stop highly sensationalizing these types of events for entertainment value & ratings increase.

I agree that this is a good idea, and I think it's starting to happen. Don't play up the gunman in any way.

 

[luvsJack]

No, most immigrants -- legal or not -- aren't walking thousands of miles. They're flying into American airports as if they're on vacation, then they're just not leaving.
Agree. I can understand -- not condone, but understand -- being angry with a specific person /wanting to hurt that person. Not that it's right to follow through with it, but I can grasp the motivation. On the other hand, thrashing out at strangers, not knowing who will be killed /hurt /emotionally scared ... that's a whole different thought process. That's blatant disregard for humanity.

I'd vote for mandatory death penalty for anyone who shoots randomly in a public setting. No chance for appeal. Don't care if you're mentally ill. If you shoot up a public place, kill and scar strangers for life, we don't need you among the living.
When I was taking driver's ed as a teen, Coach Chance said, "There's no such thing as an accident. Call 'em what they are: wrecks. Wrecks don't happen by accident -- they happen because someone made a bad choice." I think he was a little too black-and-white in his answer, but this is mostly true.
I don't know that it's mental illness entirely ... though our obsession with phones and technology /our lessened attachment to one another as human beings is definitely a big part of this problem.
Agree.
I agree that this is a good idea, and I think it's starting to happen. Don't play up the gunman in any way.

I do realize that is how a lot of immigrants get here. But those aren't the ones that are risking their lives or the ones sneaking in, which is what we were talking about. They are flying in with visas or other paperwork to be here and not leaving. We see it all the time with student visas. When they think they are about to get caught, they start scrambling to get back in school.

The "sneaking in" is usually done at the border and for large numbers, on foot.

 

[longboard55]

Many of the shooters Inot all) had known mental problems and had been prescribed medications, but they did not stop them from buying guns legally. As far as I recall none of the shooters were sophisticated criminals who went to lengths to obtain guns illegally, they either very easily bought or borrowed them.

If you are going to do something about mental illness you need a enforcement tool which means real background checks and not just a check for felonies.

 

[luvsJack]

Many of the shooters Inot all) had known mental problems and had been prescribed medications, but they did not stop them from buying guns legally. As far as I recall none of the shooters were sophisticated criminals who went to lengths to obtain guns illegally, they either very easily bought or borrowed them.

If you are going to do something about mental illness you need a enforcement tool which means real background checks and not just a check for felonies.

For some reason, that I can't really figure out, we do not seem able to say "with this diagnosis you can't by a gun" and "with this diagnosis you CAN buy a gun". People get all bent out of shape if its hinted at to not allow the mentally ill to buy guns because they say that it won't allow people, for instance, that may take meds for anxiety but are perfectly able to own a gun responsibly. I don't understand why a law has to be so broad. It may take longer to get it in place but we need very specific laws that spell out exactly who can and can't purchase a gun.

 

[Moliphino]

Perhaps one day America will wake up to a catastrophe so epic it changes everyone's minds. For us across the pond, that was the Dunblane Massacre. Thomas Hamilton went on a shooting spree, killing 18 (including himself) and wounding 15 more. He had been armed with Two 9mm Browning HP pistols and two Smith & Wesson M19 .357 Magnum revolvers.



Tragic

That's not so different from Sandy Hook here. If a classroom full of first graders being shot doesn't change anything what will?

 

[LSUmiss]

No, most immigrants -- legal or not -- aren't walking thousands of miles. They're flying into American airports as if they're on vacation, then they're just not leaving.
Not in this area. Most of ours come from Honduras & have walked thousands of miles & have been through unspeakable things by the time they get here. A lot of them of 15-16 yr old kids.
Agree. I can understand -- not condone, but understand -- being angry with a specific person /wanting to hurt that person. Not that it's right to follow through with it, but I can grasp the motivation. On the other hand, thrashing out at strangers, not knowing who will be killed /hurt /emotionally scared ... that's a whole different thought process. That's blatant disregard for humanity.

I'd vote for mandatory death penalty for anyone who shoots randomly in a public setting. No chance for appeal. Don't care if you're mentally ill. If you shoot up a public place, kill and scar strangers for life, we don't need you among the living.
Wish this would help, but most of them kill themselves & know it’s basically a suicide mission.

When I was taking driver's ed as a teen, Coach Chance said, "There's no such thing as an accident. Call 'em what they are: wrecks. Wrecks don't happen by accident -- they happen because someone made a bad choice." I think he was a little too black-and-white in his answer, but this is mostly true.
I don't know that it's mental illness entirely ... though our obsession with phones and technology /our lessened attachment to one another as human beings is definitely a big part of this problem.
Agree.
I agree that this is a good idea, and I think it's starting to happen. Don't play up the gunman in any way.

 

[Christine]

When I was taking driver's ed as a teen, Coach Chance said, "There's no such thing as an accident. Call 'em what they are: wrecks. Wrecks don't happen by accident -- they happen because someone made a bad choice." I think he was a little too black-and-white in his answer, but this is mostly true.

Yes, Coach Chance was correct! So let's not call an accident and accident. It's a wreck caused by error, lack of experience driving, poor response skills, and the like. But a car wreck does not happen with willful, malicious intent.

 

[luvsJack]

That's not so different from Sandy Hook here. If a classroom full of first graders being shot doesn't change anything what will?

Actually its not true that there has been no change.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/gun-laws-changed-years-sandy-hook/story?id=51668726

From this link: " All told, since Sandy Hook, there have been 210 laws enacted to strengthen gun safety, according to the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence" There has been change. Perhaps not enough, but there has been change.

The US, unlike many other countries that we are compared to, has the added part of the laws of individual states. States rights to govern themselves is a big deal. We can't just look at what the federal government is doing, we need to look at what our individual state is doing.

 

[longboard55]

yes several states have passed laws and have saved thousands of lives, when you compare the firearm death rates to the states that have done nothing. But nothing has done on a national level. It does not do a lot of good to pass laws in Illinois when Indiana is a 20 minute drive

 

[luvsJack]

yes several states have passed laws and have saved thousands of lives, when you compare the firearm death rates to the states that have done nothing. But nothing has done on a national level. It does not do a lot of good to pass laws in Illinois when Indiana is a 20 minute drive

We as a nation have to agree on what needs to be done before that can happen.

 

[Moliphino]

yes several states have passed laws and have saved thousands of lives, when you compare the firearm death rates to the states that have done nothing. But nothing has done on a national level. It does not do a lot of good to pass laws in Illinois when Indiana is a 20 minute drive

Yeah, some states are doing fine. Generally the ones with the strictest gun laws.

 

[luvsJack]

Yeah, some states are doing fine. Generally the ones with the strictest gun laws.

View attachment 405986

Does that link tell you what those gun deaths are? Are accidents, hunting accidents, deaths by law enforcement all in that count?

 

[longboard55]

Hmm, are bears shooting back

 

[Colleen27]

I wish I could say that this kinda of news was shocking to me. I've grown numb to it. After the Vegas shooting, I asked my then high schooler what he thought about and he just shrugged and said he didn't see what all the fuss was about. Another day, another shooting. It won't be long until the next one. It was then that I realized he was born after Columbine. This IS normal to him the same way hijacked planes seemed normal to me when I was growing up. My youngest has been taught to run, hide, and fight for his entire schooling life. We don't seem to want to make any changes so to protect myself I lost my will to become outraged anymore. I will tune in if we ever reach the point where we get serious about changing things but until then I will notice and be aware of my surroundings and how to escape. It's the only bit of control I have in this crazy world we made for ourselves.

My two older kids - one born the year Columbine happened and the other just weeks after 9/11 - have similar attitudes. Mass shootings are just part of the background noise of life for them. And unfortunately, I think that degree of adjustment will make solutions even harder to find, because to a lot of these kids - not all, of course; the Parkland kids come to mind - the idea of somehow getting rid of mass shootings is about on par with the notion of eliminating tornados or car accidents. A nice thought, but fundamentally impossible.

It's an evocative question. Here in Canada, regardless of general perceptions, firearms are quite easily available to anyone who wants them and illegal guns (such as assault weapons) are certainly obtainable, illegally by people who plan illegal activities (get where I'm going?). We have, at a superficial glance, extremely similar cultural influences and practices as you do in the US, with approximately one-tenth of the population. Why then, do mass shooting incidents not occur here at a steady 1/10 of the rate they do in the US? Canada has recorded 24 mass shooting incidents since 1885 - yes, 1885. (**This excludes incidents of domestic violence and gang wars resulting in multiple gun deaths as well as all mass murders not perpetrated with guns.)

I think it is very, very hard to overstate the degree to which feelings of insecurity and vulnerability play into this. The rest of the developed world can take certain fundamentals in life more or less for granted - the idea that one could be diagnosed with cancer and sent home to die for lack of the ability to pay for treatment, or be bankrupted by a heart attack, or see their social security garnished for their student loan debt imposes a fairly extreme chronic stress load on many if not most Americans, and our brains and bodies just aren't wired to function properly under those conditions. That not only leads to acute mental health crises but also to high rates of "diseases of despair" like addiction, alcoholism and suicidal tendencies. Add in the cost and stigma of mental health care and the "rugged individualist" mythos that hobbles traditional/informal support networks, and you've got a recipe for disaster that doesn't exist in any other comparably modern nation.

 

[Moliphino]

Does that link tell you what those gun deaths are? Are accidents, hunting accidents, deaths by law enforcement all in that count?

I think it includes all gun deaths (suicide, homicide, accident, law enforcement related, unknown).
More charts and the whole article are here

 

[luvsJack]

Hmm, are bears shooting back

No but hunting accidents do happen. And an accident, suicide or law enforcement shooting is very different from homicide, mass shootings, etc.

 

[cinnaminny]

I think that Americans have completely given up on this issue, which is why people just keep moving along every time this happens. The last one that really got to me was Las Vegas and that was partially because a few weeks earlier I was actually in that exact location and had also attended a street concert in another area where me and my family could have been used as target practice.


I try not to focus on it now because I know that nothing will ever be done about it. People don’t want to pay for healthcare let alone mental health facilities. They don’t want any restrictions on guns at all. This might change as younger voters become the majority...and they were last election cycle. But it will take years for the courts to catch up and help fix this, with the way our system is set up. I feel that we are doomed to endure this until the people who really want these things to change are in control. And even then...we are a violent nation, it probably wont change anything.

 

[underdesea]

While I agree that thoughts and prayers in response to events like these do not seem to reduce the frequency with which they are taking place, I would submit that there is a completely different set of thoughts and prayers that are being overlooked. It’s clear that faith (of any kind) among Americans is rapidly declining. Perhaps, if more thoughts and prayers during childhood, adolescence and young adulthood were said for, and more importantly BY the types of people that eventually go on to commit these terrible acts, the frequency with which they are committed would be far less?

Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days.

I have also noticed it has even now become socially acceptable to mock someone’s faith and imply that they are somehow intellectually inferior because they foolishly believe in something that can’t be seen or heard. It’s true though, humans are almost too smart. Science’s stack of chips continues to grow while Faith is considering pawning it’s watch just to stay in the game. But then again, there is the Jastrow quote...

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

We're not supposed to be discussing religion on these boards, so I can't reply at length, but people don't need to follow a certain (or any) religious belief system to be good people who don't shoot up a room full of others. And people who do follow such a system are not always kind and loving.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

We're not supposed to be discussing religion on these boards, so I can't reply at length, but people don't need to follow a certain (or any) religious belief system to be good people who don't shoot up a room full of others. And people who do follow such a system are not always kind and loving.

I agree 100%. Although, I’m not sure why you quoted my post. I said nothing that would contradict our opinion.

 

[cinnaminny]

No but hunting accidents do happen. And an accident, suicide or law enforcement shooting is very different from homicide, mass shootings, etc.

It is different but the suicide problem is nearly as bad.

While I agree that thoughts and prayers in response to events like these do not seem to reduce the frequency with which they are taking place, I would submit that there is a completely different set of thoughts and prayers that are being overlooked. It’s clear that faith (of any kind) among Americans is rapidly declining. Perhaps, if more thoughts and prayers during childhood, adolescence and young adulthood were said for, and more importantly BY the types of people that eventually go on to commit these terrible acts, the frequency with which they are committed would be far less?

Maybe my perception is skewed, but I can’t help but see a correlation between the increase in the number of mass murders of total strangers and the decline of faith in our country. (Selfless) thoughts, and prayers (pre-shooting) seem to be rare birds these days.

I have also noticed it has even now become socially acceptable to mock someone’s faith and imply that they are somehow intellectually inferior because they foolishly believe in something that can’t be seen or heard. It’s true though, humans are almost too smart. Science’s stack of chips continues to grow while Faith is considering pawning it’s watch just to stay in the game. But then again, there is the Jastrow quote...

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”


Let me guess. Avocados?

You know, some of the people that complain that they are treated badly for being religious are usually the people who blame all the ills of the world on non religious people and atheists. When you throw rocks at people, they might toss one back at you.