"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[Sandeep1]

There was nothing in the article that started this thread to suggest that anyone was offended by "ladies and gentlemen."

So someone at Air Canada just woke up one morning and said, "hey let's start using gender neutral pronouns?"

Yeah right.

 

[Kestryl]

So someone at Air Canada just woke up one morning and said, "hey let's start using gender neutral pronouns?"

Maybe. Or maybe whoever started this has been watching and listening to topics related to identity, and eventually they saw a way Air Canada could be more inclusive by a simple change. Maybe someone outside the organization suggested different ways the airline could be more inclusive. Maybe there was some diversity and inclusivity training, and this sprung from that. It didn’t have to be an overnight decision.

 

[porschegrl]

So someone at Air Canada just woke up one morning and said, "hey let's start using gender neutral pronouns?"

Yeah right.

I'm not saying it did happen that way, because I don't know (and neither do you). But knowing how things work in my own corporate world, yeah, I could easily see it happening pretty much like that. During a policy & procedures audit, someone asks, "what if," and it goes from there.

ETA: But the point I was making is that you assume the worst and respond in kind. @ashley0139 called it right, back on page 1: If there wasn't an article about this change, nobody would ever have noticed it.

 

[Sandeep1]

I'm not saying it did happen that way, because I don't know (and neither do you). But knowing how things work in my own corporate world, yeah, I could easily see it happening pretty much like that. During a policy & procedures audit, someone asks, "what if," and it goes from there.

ETA: But the point I was making is that you assume the worst and respond in kind. @ashley0139 called it right, back on page 1: If there wasn't an article about this change, nobody would ever have noticed it.

I don't know that I'm assuming the worst. I think my assumption is quite reasonable given the climate we live in.

 

[jrmasm]

Not a single person in this thread has said that.

 

[sam_gordon]

the point I was making is that you assume the worst and respond in kind.

Sort of like these posters?

People offended by the word everyone.

People are offended by people being offended. That’s a whole another level of stupid.

 

[porschegrl]

Sort of like these posters?

Sort of, but not quite. There is no evidence that the Air Canada decision is based on some big hue and cry, but that hasn't stopped some in this thread from assuming that's why the change was implemented. The posters you quoted are reacting to what is actually posted in this thread. Whether anyone has actually used the word "offended," it is clear that some are bothered by the wording change because of what they think it represents.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sort of, but not quite. There is no evidence that the Air Canada decision is based on some big hue and cry, but that hasn't stopped some in this thread from assuming that's why the change was implemented. The posters you quoted are reacting to what is actually posted in this thread. Whether anyone has actually used the word "offended," it is clear that some are bothered by the wording change because of what they think it represents.

Do you mind quoting the posts supporting what I bolded from you? Personally, I don't think anyone is bothered by the wording change. But I guess it's ok if you make assumptions but not others.

Just because someone doesn't understand or doesn't agree with a choice doesn't mean they're offended or bothered by it.

 

[seshat0120]

so if being bi-sexual isn't about being attracted to one gender or another, what does it mean?

Bisexual has nothing to do with the gender one identifies as or presents as. Bisexual means one is sexually attracted to people who are both the same gender as well as the opposite gender.

 

[sam_gordon]

Bisexual has nothing to do with the gender one identifies as or presents as. Bisexual means one is sexually attracted to people who are both the same gender as well as the opposite gender.

What if they're attracted to someone who is genderfluid? Are they still Bi? What if they're genderfluid but attacked to male? Would that still make them bi? Didn't we find out earlier that if you're genderfluid, you don't identify as either gender? So how can you be attracted to the same (or opposite) gender?

 

[skyblue17]

What if they're attracted to someone who is genderfluid? Are they still Bi? What if they're genderfluid but attacked to male? Would that still make them bi? Didn't we find out earlier that if you're genderfluid, you don't identify as either gender? So how can you be attracted to the same (or opposite) gender?

A person who is attracted to someone who is genderfluid would be pansexual. Pansexual people are attracted to who they are attracted to, regardless of gender, biological sex or gender identity.

 

[seshat0120]

What if they're attracted to someone who is genderfluid? Are they still Bi? What if they're genderfluid but attacked to male? Would that still make them bi? Didn't we find out earlier that if you're genderfluid, you don't identify as either gender? So how can you be attracted to the same (or opposite) gender?

I'd take the time to answer this but since I have the feeling that you're being deliberately obtuse (because you can google any of the question you have and find the answer), I can't be bothered.

 

[ronandannette]

I'd take the time to answer this but since I have the feeling that you're being deliberately obtuse (because you can google any of the question you have and find the answer), I can't be bothered.

Or maybe he is just trying to make some logical sense out of what he does know? If you take a step back from what might be a personal issue for you, can you not acknowledge that some of these distinctions, which were basically unheard of in the mainstream less than a generation ago, are confusing? It doesn’t necessarily make one hostile just because they don’t automatically or intuitively “get it”. Perhaps a clear and calm answer from you would be very helpful.

 

[sam_gordon]

Or maybe he is just trying to make some logical sense out of what he does know? If you take a step back from what might be a personal issue for you, can you not acknowledge that some of these distinctions, which were basically unheard of in the mainstream less than a generation ago, are confusing? It doesn’t necessarily make one hostile just because they don’t automatically or intuitively “get it”. Perhaps a clear and calm answer from you would be very helpful.

@skyblue17 answered very succinctly, and I appreciate that.

 

[soccerdad72]

Maybe. Or maybe whoever started this has been watching and listening to topics related to identity, and eventually they saw a way Air Canada could be more inclusive by a simple change. Maybe someone outside the organization suggested different ways the airline could be more inclusive. Maybe there was some diversity and inclusivity training, and this sprung from that. It didn’t have to be an overnight decision.

This is probably likely closest to the reality. Like any corporation these days, I'd sure they have a Diversity and Inclusion department / committee and this was on their agenda.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'd take the time to answer this but since I have the feeling that you're being deliberately obtuse (because you can google any of the question you have and find the answer), I can't be bothered.

But you CAN be bothered to post this? And if the answer is "google your questions", then probably 75% of Disboards would go away.

 

[Moliphino]

Bisexual has nothing to do with the gender one identifies as or presents as. Bisexual means one is sexually attracted to people who are both the same gender sex as well as the opposite gender sex.

There are two biological sexes. Gender is not quite the same thing and involves social constructs. At least that's my understanding of it.

 

[fly girl]

Well, I am hopping onboard this interesting post. This is my take, hopefully no one will be offended.

I was a flight attendant for 20 years. They changed our announcements from time to time, but "ladies and gentleman" was always included. I wouldn't have cared if it switched to everyone, I honestly do not think any flight attendant would've objected. And seriously, no one listens to us anyway so changing it really doesn't mean squat.

Let me preface, I am not saying that there isn't discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community, there certainly is. No denying that.

I honestly feel this really isn't about a change of words. It is a collective eye roll because of how hyper PC our society has become. Some changes have been very necessary, but others do have quite a few of us saying "really" with an eye roll. This is just another thing to be included into the huge ball of PC.

Some feel (including myself at times) that the PC world has watered us down to the point we feel we can't say anything without the fear of offending someone. And reading that "ladies and gentlemen" could have been a trigger phrase to offend and/or exclude, likely came as a surprise to many people.

We will learn and grow as a society, but imho sometimes we do go over the top with making everything so PC.

 

[Figarro]

I once went to a Cirque du Soleil show and the clown welcomed us with "Ladies and... non ladies". I like that

 

[FlightlessDuck]

So someone at Air Canada just woke up one morning and said, "hey let's start using gender neutral pronouns?"

Yeah right.

Come on, we all know how corporate America works. This decision took 4 years, 500 meetings, and 2,753 emails.