A Goof Became Dopey: Running After Dopey (comments welcome)

[surfde22]

Lift Bridge 10 Mile Recap

So Saturday, 7/23, was my first attempt at a POT for Dopey, and let's just say it didn't go as planned. The Temp + Dew was around 155 at the 8am start time. My warm up went well, and I was feeling pretty confident in my training. I re-hydrated with some water about 10 minutes before the start and lined up near the 8:30 pacer. I didn't have plans on running with him, but just needed to line up near those with a similar time goal. The gun fired and off we went. I went out at what felt like a pretty comfortable pace with mile 1 coming in just under 8:20. I maintained that pace through the next 1.5 miles or so. Then came the first of 3 substantial hills. I knew they were coming, but did not expect them to be as difficult as they were. I slowed greatly on that hill and even had to take a walking break, which was not something I was planning on, but such is life. The humidity was definitely taking much more of a toll on me than I had anticipated.

The silver lining of falling of my pace though is that everyone around my target pace and faster missed a turn and ran an extra 4 miles. I was glad to have missed that. It's not often that you get passed by the 6:30 pacer at the 8 mile mark on a single loop race. The demoralizing part of the run was watching the pacers slowly pass me as I went. First the 8:30, then 9:00, then 9:30. Ugh, it was definitely miserable. Finally the 10:00 pacer caught me around the 7 mile mark or so. I hitched on to her for the next couple of miles. I had already conceded that the race would be a training run more than anything, so I talked with her as we ran. I found out she is normally an 8:25/mile marathoner and was struggling to maintain her 10:00/mile pace. So, I guess that I shouldn't feel too bad. Just after mile 9 I was feeling a bit better. I picked up my pace and finished the last mile strong-(ish). I hit the finish mat 1:39:16 after starting. I definitely learned that I should've gone out even slower with the given humidity, and the sped up as I could. The shock was the 8:00 and faster runners getting lost. For a race that has been around for many years, this is just unacceptable. I will be back at this race next year however, and conquer it after my struggles this weekend. But hey, PR no matter what. This was my first 10 miler after all.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Lift Bridge 10 Mile Recap

So Saturday, 7/23, was my first attempt at a POT for Dopey, and let's just say it didn't go as planned. The Temp + Dew was around 155 at the 8am start time. My warm up went well, and I was feeling pretty confident in my training. I re-hydrated with some water about 10 minutes before the start and lined up near the 8:30 pacer. I didn't have plans on running with him, but just needed to line up near those with a similar time goal. The gun fired and off we went. I went out at what felt like a pretty comfortable pace with mile 1 coming in just under 8:20. I maintained that pace through the next 1.5 miles or so. Then came the first of 3 substantial hills. I knew they were coming, but did not expect them to be as difficult as they were. I slowed greatly on that hill and even had to take a walking break, which was not something I was planning on, but such is life. The humidity was definitely taking much more of a toll on me than I had anticipated.

The silver lining of falling of my pace though is that everyone around my target pace and faster missed a turn and ran an extra 4 miles. I was glad to have missed that. It's not often that you get passed by the 6:30 pacer at the 8 mile mark on a single loop race. The demoralizing part of the run was watching the pacers slowly pass me as I went. First the 8:30, then 9:00, then 9:30. Ugh, it was definitely miserable. Finally the 10:00 pacer caught me around the 7 mile mark or so. I hitched on to her for the next couple of miles. I had already conceded that the race would be a training run more than anything, so I talked with her as we ran. I found out she is normally an 8:25/mile marathoner and was struggling to maintain her 10:00/mile pace. So, I guess that I shouldn't feel too bad. Just after mile 9 I was feeling a bit better. I picked up my pace and finished the last mile strong-(ish). I hit the finish mat 1:39:16 after starting. I definitely learned that I should've gone out even slower with the given humidity, and the sped up as I could. The shock was the 8:00 and faster runners getting lost. For a race that has been around for many years, this is just unacceptable. I will be back at this race next year however, and conquer it after my struggles this weekend. But hey, PR no matter what. This was my first 10 miler after all.

Congrats on the race and you have a very good outlook on the outcome! I concur about the heat/humidity. My run on Saturday was suppose to be 8:33 min/mile, but my matching effort pushed the pace from 8:33 to 9:00 to 9:30 to almost 10:00. It was a brutal day. Here's to hoping that the POT race in September has better weather.

 

[surfde22]

Congrats on the race and you have a very good outlook on the outcome! I concur about the heat/humidity. My run on Saturday was suppose to be 8:33 min/mile, but my matching effort pushed the pace from 8:33 to 9:00 to 9:30 to almost 10:00. It was a brutal day. Here's to hoping that the POT race in September has better weather.

Thanks. Glad to see my pace slippage wasn't much more than an elite like you. I'm trying to have a good outlook on the results, but my competitive side still has me beyond ticked off about it. But hey, I'm really just starting my running "career" so I'll get there eventually, I hope.

 

[ZellyB]

I've been reading your journal, but just realized I've never posted to it. First, congrats on the birth of your son. Sorry that he had some time in NICU, but I'm glad he recovered quickly. I'd say given the conditions you should feel pretty good about that 10-miler. The heat on Saturday here was nothing short of brutal and you just have to adjust your goals when the weather conspires against you.

 

[surfde22]

I've been reading your journal, but just realized I've never posted to it. First, congrats on the birth of your son. Sorry that he had some time in NICU, but I'm glad he recovered quickly. I'd say given the conditions you should feel pretty good about that 10-miler. The heat on Saturday here was nothing short of brutal and you just have to adjust your goals when the weather conspires against you.

Thanks for following along, even though the weekly updates have faded off. A new son and new job definitely limit time to update this. I've been following yours too, but don't think I have commented there, so no worries about not commenting on mine.

Yeah, the NICU wasn't fun, but he's definitely recovered and growing quickly. It's crazy how fast they grow and change. He's already rolling from tummy to back, smiling, and appears to be on the verge of finding his voice and cooing. It's all going way to fast.

I do feel good about the 10-miler for the most part, but I'm always my own worst critic, and have always been super competitive, even with myself.

 

[roxymama]

Signing up for a 10 mile that turns into over a half marathon may be my worst nightmare...so I am glad that you avoided that! I am super impressed with your time, especially on a hot and hilly course.

And PR!!

 

[surfde22]

Signing up for a 10 mile that turns into over a half marathon may be my worst nightmare...so I am glad that you avoided that! I am super impressed with your time, especially on a hot and hilly course.

And PR!!

Yes, definitely glad I avoided that. The way I look at it either way, being on pace or back where I was, would not have given me a POT I would've been happy with. I mean, the 8:00/mile pacer finished about 30 seconds in front of me. The "winner's" time was just over 1:20:00, but I know she picked up pace on the back side, because I remember seeing her pass me as I was slowly dying.

I'd say I'm slowly becoming satisfied with my time, but I definitely want another shot at that course. It's part of a three race series where the medals all fit together. I'm half contemplating doing all three next year, but the courses are 1-1.5 hours from home. Not sure I really want to make that drive so many times.

And yes, PR!! Can't go wrong with that.

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

Some really tough running conditions this weekend with all the heat and humidity. Throwing those hills in just isn't fair! Don't let it get you down, your next go at POT doesn't stand a chance, you're gonna kill it!

 

[surfde22]

Some really tough running conditions this weekend with all the heat and humidity. Throwing those hills in just isn't fair! Don't let it get you down, your next go at POT doesn't stand a chance, you're gonna kill it!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Just gotta bust my butt over the next 7 weeks or so and get ready for it. The half course is much flatter and hopefully it will be cooler by then. I also have another 10-miler in my back pocket in case the half doesn't go well. It's the weekend after the half and mostly downhill, but hopefully it won't be required.

 

[surfde22]

Running of the Bays Half Marathon

This past Saturday, 9/10/16, I ran my first half marathon, and it was a chance to improve my POT from my July race. Spoiler alert, I did improve my POT. The temps at the start were much more pleasant than my July race. The temperature at the start was an amazing 58 degrees. I woke up bright and early to make the 45 minute drive to the race. Got up to the small suburban town it started in about 45 minutes before the start. I did a short warm-up and dynamic stretching. Before I knew it the time came to line up. I lined up with about 200 of my best friends, at least for the day. Out of the gate I started with an 8:40 pace. I was feeling strong, and through 7 miles I was maintaining this pace, even through the continuous rolling hills. Then things changed for the worse. Some where during mile 8 I tweaked my ankle a little. I was coming down a hill, so my pace was a little quicker, there was a sharp right. The road we turned onto had about a 4" drop from the road to the dirt shoulder. My left foot, which has long been my weak ankle, hit the drop and rolled slightly. It wasn't severe, but it was enough to make me aware of it and slow down, even walk occasionally. I had hoped to run a sub 2 hour race, but at about 9.5 miles I saw the 2 hour pacer pass me. I tried running with her, but my ankle was flaring up from time to time, so backed off a little more. Then shortly after hitting the 11 mile mark we turned to run west. Then that cross/tail wind I had been feeling most of the race hit me smack in the face. It was a good 10-15mph in my face for the last 2 miles. That was real fun. I ended up finishing in 2:04:09, a PR!!!! The course was beautiful. The rolling hills presented a bit of a challenge at times, but nothing significant. Running around the bays of Lake Minnetonka was absolutely gorgeous. Though, I think they should bump it back about a month to correspond with the leaves changing. It was a nice medal we received, but they some how screwed up ordering the shirts. Anyone needing an XL or XXL didn't get them, and we are waiting for them to order more and mail them to us.

Post race I decided to register for a 10 miler this coming weekend, to see if I can improve my POT a little more. The course this coming weekend is a generally downhill course so hopefully that will help. We'll see how I'm feeling coming Saturday morning.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Running of the Bays Half Marathon

This past Saturday, 9/10/16, I ran my first half marathon, and it was a chance to improve my POT from my July race. Spoiler alert, I did improve my POT. The temps at the start were much more pleasant than my July race. The temperature at the start was an amazing 58 degrees. I woke up bright and early to make the 45 minute drive to the race. Got up to the small suburban town it started in about 45 minutes before the start. I did a short warm-up and dynamic stretching. Before I knew it the time came to line up. I lined up with about 200 of my best friends, at least for the day. Out of the gate I started with an 8:40 pace. I was feeling strong, and through 7 miles I was maintaining this pace, even through the continuous rolling hills. Then things changed for the worse. Some where during mile 8 I tweaked my ankle a little. I was coming down a hill, so my pace was a little quicker, there was a sharp right. The road we turned onto had about a 4" drop from the road to the dirt shoulder. My left foot, which has long been my weak ankle, hit the drop and rolled slightly. It wasn't severe, but it was enough to make me aware of it and slow down, even walk occasionally. I had hoped to run a sub 2 hour race, but at about 9.5 miles I saw the 2 hour pacer pass me. I tried running with her, but my ankle was flaring up from time to time, so backed off a little more. Then shortly after hitting the 11 mile mark we turned to run west. Then that cross/tail wind I had been feeling most of the race hit me smack in the face. It was a good 10-15mph in my face for the last 2 miles. That was real fun. I ended up finishing in 2:04:09, a PR!!!! The course was beautiful. The rolling hills presented a bit of a challenge at times, but nothing significant. Running around the bays of Lake Minnetonka was absolutely gorgeous. Though, I think they should bump it back about a month to correspond with the leaves changing. It was a nice medal we received, but they some how screwed up ordering the shirts. Anyone needing an XL or XXL didn't get them, and we are waiting for them to order more and mail them to us.

Post race I decided to register for a 10 miler this coming weekend, to see if I can improve my POT a little more. The course this coming weekend is a generally downhill course so hopefully that will help. We'll see how I'm feeling coming Saturday morning.

Congrats on your first half marathon and congrats on overcoming the ankle tweak. Way to go!

Using the 2016 Dopey corrals it looks like a 2:04 HM gets you into Corral F. To get to Corral E using a 10 mile POT, you would need to run about a 1:29:46 (8:59 min/mile). Looks like you held a 8:43 min/mile pace through mile 6.7 of the HM so it's definitely do able. I'd suggest taking it pretty easy this week to give your body some recovery time in between races. Best of luck!

 

[surfde22]

Congrats on your first half marathon and congrats on overcoming the ankle tweak. Way to go!

Using the 2016 Dopey corrals it looks like a 2:04 HM gets you into Corral F. To get to Corral E using a 10 mile POT, you would need to run about a 1:29:46 (8:59 min/mile). Looks like you held a 8:43 min/mile pace through mile 6.7 of the HM so it's definitely do able. I'd suggest taking it pretty easy this week to give your body some recovery time in between races. Best of luck!

Thanks for the congrats. The ankle was disappointing, but something I'm used to to an extent. I plan on taking it very easy this week, and have no intentions of pushing myself on Saturday if I'm not feeling it. The medal will be part of a set that goes with my 10 miler from July, so that was part of the deciding factor in signing up for the race. Now if only I had done their half in may so I'd have the complete set. Maybe next year I'll go for the full set.

 

[surfde22]

Stillwater Log Run 10 Miler

One week after running my first half marathon I ran a 10 mile race. This would be my final chance to get the best POT I could for Dopey. This race wasn't orignally on my schedule, but after not being completely satisfied with my half from a week ago I decided to sign up for one more attempt. I got up bright and early, not runDisney early but early enough for me on the weekend, and made the hour long drive out to the race course. I picked up my bib and shirt, which was cotton for some unknown reason, and made my way to the buses that would take us up to the start line. The shirt being cotton isn't really the end of the world though. It was long sleeved, and I only ever throw long sleeves on when I need the Cold Gear long sleeves, which isn't usually what's handed out at races. This way I'll actually get more use of it.

We took a short bus ride up to the start and were dropped literally on the shoulder of a highway. That didn't leave much room for warming up. I was able to get a short run in, but nothing of huge significance. Before too long it was time to get lined up for the start. I lined up near the 8:30 pacer. My thought was to go for broke today. I had nothing to really lose, as my half time isn't really that terrible, and had plenty to gain if I ran really strong. I let the 8:30 pacer go in front of me and ran what I felt was a strong, but comfortable pace. My plan was to keep him in sight, but not necessarily run with him. I figured if I kept him close throughout I'd be able to pick it up and finish strong with the last mile being virtually all downhill. Things were going great. I walked some of the water stops, not because of fatigued, but because of my general lack of ability to drink and run at the same time.

Then my normal mile 6-7 mental problems began. I can run well past that mark in training, but when it comes to racing I can't seem to get over that hurdle. And once I concede to walking, it's hard to get myself back to where I can just keep running. Somewhere between 8-9 I saw the 9 minute pacer pass me. I knew from @DopeyBadger that to make this run worth something based on last year's corrals, I needed an 8:59 or better pace. At that point I mustered all the mental strength I had and forced myself to stay close to the pacer. Again, knowing I can let everything go on the downhill last mile. I hit the 9 mile mark and was about 30 seconds behind a 9:00 pace at that point. I knew I had to hit that last mile in a little less than 8:30 to get to where I wanted. The downhill came and I let gravity work its magic. I went strong and did the last mile in 8:02 and finished with an official time of 1:29:38, 8 whole seconds better than what DopeyBadger listed above. I was ecstatic that I was able to do that, but pissed that I let my mind get to me again.

I crossed the finish line and collected my medal. It gave me 2 of 3 medals from the Run Stillwater series. Had I known I was going to do this one I would've just done the May half marathon to complete the series. I guess there's always next year to get the trifecta. Here are the medals, and so disappointing not having the green one. My lift bridge is incomplete.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congrats again! The mental game will come with time. Mentally what happens to you? Certain thoughts about the race? Thoughts of fatigue? Calculations of possible finish times based on current pacing? If you describe the why behind the mental aspect we might be able to figure out a solution for solving it. Clearly putting in a 8:02 (downhill notwithstanding) says that if you can get over the mental hurdle you can continue to do even better.

How's your brother's training going? Do you believe you'll be in similar corrals? And remind me wasn't the goal Dopey time (his 2014 time) somewhere around 7:30?

 

[surfde22]

Congrats again! The mental game will come with time. Mentally what happens to you? Certain thoughts about the race? Thoughts of fatigue? Calculations of possible finish times based on current pacing? If you describe the why behind the mental aspect we might be able to figure out a solution for solving it. Clearly putting in a 8:02 (downhill notwithstanding) says that if you can get over the mental hurdle you can continue to do even better.

How's your brother's training going? Do you believe you'll be in similar corrals? And remind me wasn't the goal Dopey time (his 2014 time) somewhere around 7:30?

Thanks for the congrats. I think it's mostly thoughts about fatigue. Though I'm not feeling fatigued to the point where I can't maintain my pace I get to thinking that I've never run that far that fast and that I just can't do it. This happens whether or not I look at my watch. If I look at my watch I clearly know how fast I'm running, if I'm not looking I can still tell I'm running fast based on knowing what my training paces feel like. I have my wife all over me telling me to get over it, which is a normal tactic that works for me, being pushed hard and having a hard a$$ "coach", but it still hasn't clicked yet. Even knowing the competition, I still can't. Hopefully it will click as we get closer, because I know how competitive I am, and losing to my younger brother is not something that interests me.

I have no idea how my brother's training is going, though I don't think he's doing much. Based on his Princess half time from earlier this year, 1:57:24, we'd be in the same corral using last years corrals. I don't know if he has a better POT than that or not. His Dopey time in 2014 was 7:26, which based on McMillan predictions I'm a little behind with my current POT, though if I could get over the mental part I really think I can do it.

 

[FFigawi]

Thanks for the congrats. I think it's mostly thoughts about fatigue. Though I'm not feeling fatigued to the point where I can't maintain my pace I get to thinking that I've never run that far that fast and that I just can't do it. This happens whether or not I look at my watch. If I look at my watch I clearly know how fast I'm running, if I'm not looking I can still tell I'm running fast based on knowing what my training paces feel like. I have my wife all over me telling me to get over it, which is a normal tactic that works for me, being pushed hard and having a hard a$$ "coach", but it still hasn't clicked yet. Even knowing the competition, I still can't. Hopefully it will click as we get closer, because I know how competitive I am, and losing to my younger brother is not something that interests me.

Have you tried running without knowing your distance? If you don't know how far you've gone, or how far you have left to go, you should be less inclined to worry you're running too fast. You can instead focus on feeling good and comfortable.

 

[surfde22]

I don't have the problem during training, usually. Sometimes it creeps up during tempo runs, where not knowing the distance could help. But it's races where I get hit with the problem, and it's hard not to see the mile markers on most races.

 

[ZellyB]

Congratulations on your first half marathon! Sorry you had to deal with an ankle tweak but sounds like you did well despite that. And then another great showing for your 10-miler. Way to finish strong and hit the pace you wanted. Those are some good POTs!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks for the congrats. I think it's mostly thoughts about fatigue. Though I'm not feeling fatigued to the point where I can't maintain my pace I get to thinking that I've never run that far that fast and that I just can't do it. This happens whether or not I look at my watch. If I look at my watch I clearly know how fast I'm running, if I'm not looking I can still tell I'm running fast based on knowing what my training paces feel like. I have my wife all over me telling me to get over it, which is a normal tactic that works for me, being pushed hard and having a hard a$$ "coach", but it still hasn't clicked yet. Even knowing the competition, I still can't. Hopefully it will click as we get closer, because I know how competitive I am, and losing to my younger brother is not something that interests me.

I have no idea how my brother's training is going, though I don't think he's doing much. Based on his Princess half time from earlier this year, 1:57:24, we'd be in the same corral using last years corrals. I don't know if he has a better POT than that or not. His Dopey time in 2014 was 7:26, which based on McMillan predictions I'm a little behind with my current POT, though if I could get over the mental part I really think I can do it.

Sounds like self-doubt. Like you're unsure whether you're capable of running that far that fast. I can understand that if that's the case. Trust the training and do your best. Let your body take over and if you're hitting your paces don't worry. Do you listen to music? I find I can turn the volume up just a notch to zone out other "noises" in my head. ***Although be careful turning the music up too loud not just from a safety standpoint, but from the standpoint that your hearing tends to wane during endurance running and thus the "loud" music is actually "really loud" and can damage your hearing.***

So I plugged in your 10 mile time to McMillan and got the following prediction based on current fitness:



The prediction is based on my times and what I've been able to do in Dopey at full effort compared to recent PRs leading up to Dopey (thus an n=1 experiment). As of right now, your predicted Dopey time would be 7:55:30. The last column is a 5% improvement in this last training cycle (now to January) which is moderate. I saw a 16% improvement from Nov 2014 marathon to Oct 2015 marathon (May 2015 marathon was my worst and would show an even larger improvement, but maybe not completely representative (27%)). I feel that you're likely to make the biggest % jump between now and then, then any prior training cycle because of the heavy increase in "Running Economy" training you'll be doing. So as you said, it's going to be close. Train smart from now until then, and then let motivation win the event for you against him. Dependent on his training your best shot to beat him mono-e-mono is in the Dopey marathon. If you can appropriately pace yourself through the other events, and unleash yourself in the last one, you've got a chance. Motivation during the marathon will play a huge role.

 

[surfde22]

Sounds like self-doubt. Like you're unsure whether you're capable of running that far that fast. I can understand that if that's the case. Trust the training and do your best. Let your body take over and if you're hitting your paces don't worry. Do you listen to music? I find I can turn the volume up just a notch to zone out other "noises" in my head. ***Although be careful turning the music up too loud not just from a safety standpoint, but from the standpoint that your hearing tends to wane during endurance running and thus the "loud" music is actually "really loud" and can damage your hearing.***

So I plugged in your 10 mile time to McMillan and got the following prediction based on current fitness:

View attachment 195793

The prediction is based on my times and what I've been able to do in Dopey at full effort compared to recent PRs leading up to Dopey (thus an n=1 experiment). As of right now, your predicted Dopey time would be 7:55:30. The last column is a 5% improvement in this last training cycle (now to January) which is moderate. I saw a 16% improvement from Nov 2014 marathon to Oct 2015 marathon (May 2015 marathon was my worst and would show an even larger improvement, but maybe not completely representative (27%)). I feel that you're likely to make the biggest % jump between now and then, then any prior training cycle because of the heavy increase in "Running Economy" training you'll be doing. So as you said, it's going to be close. Train smart from now until then, and then let motivation win the event for you against him. Dependent on his training your best shot to beat him mono-e-mono is in the Dopey marathon. If you can appropriately pace yourself through the other events, and unleash yourself in the last one, you've got a chance. Motivation during the marathon will play a huge role.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, self doubt it probably the best label. I do listen to music, but the voices in my head can be very loud. I do well when I get a song I naturally tend sing along too, and would build a playlist of all those songs if only I could remember them when I get done, or they didn't change from run to run.

Thanks for the data, I can always count on you to give me the best available data. Though I know your numbers won't necessarily be mine it at least gives me an idea. The other thing I need to make sure not to do is slack on my training the last 2-4 weeks before Dopey. The last few races I did that and skipped more than I ran during that time.