Another fight and no one to stop it.

[RivShore]

but most of life is grey & not black or white

Have you not heard of that thing called the Internet? No grey there, everything is black and white, I'm always right, you're always wrong and everyone else's life looks perfect.

 

[RivShore]

When his wife screamed at me saying "He didn't touch your daughter, he doesn't touch our daughters"

Yikes, that kind of instant denial can only mean bad things...Thankfully you didn't engage.

 

[ronandannette]

My point is that there is absolutely no reason in the world not to act like a decent human being and just let her go ahead. I posted on a different thread about an incident on a train earlier this week. There was a blind man on a train and he was forced to give up his seat when there was another solution that would have made a lot more sense, even if technically the other party was “right.”

Your example was odd and confusing, actually. He didn't "give up his seat" - he was asked to move from an assigned seat another party had purchased. How did he get in their seat to start with? Just board the train alone and plunk himself down? A very weird thing to do if the seats were actually assigned. Rather than just having the family who paid for the seats leave him in theirs and relocate themselves, why not physically assist the blind man to find the seat he actually paid for? Mobility is an issue for some people - I get that. But with support from others, he could very well have been taken safely to his own seat.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But still no reason to engage in that situation. Maybe parents today should teach...sticks and stones may break my bone but words will never hurt me.

Haven't we already established this? Apologies but I'm not sure why you are repeating yourself to me again. I'm confused, we're not in disagreement here as I already said in my prior comment.

 

[trip]

I can't believe all of the women that were fighting. Why didn't they just take the kids and grandma and leave the area?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I can't believe all of the women that were fighting. Why didn't they just take the kids and grandma and leave the area?

Is fighting confined to a certain gender? Is caregiving of children confined to a certain gender?

No one should have been fighting, verbally or physically.

 

[shh]

’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but in the end, it’s a theme park not a bread line. It’ll be ok if those handful of ppl snuck past you by lying. It will not significantly increase your wait times. It’s this perceived injustice that gets ppl all riled up.

Love this - so true. It's a theme park, not a bread line. I think about those long 1930s depression era food lines before there was food stamps or any other govt help - with all those people waiting so patiently for their turn, just hoping and praying for a little something to bring home to feed their families. Can you imagine today's entitled crowd and how they'd behave in those dire times?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So how do you propose Disney enforce the no leaving & returning to the line policy?

I totally see where you're thinking and I agree about reining in someone's expectations but on the other hand other parks do have rules and enforce them. There are usually watchful eyes all over be it camera or physical, you're being watched far more than many people even think about.

Cedar Fair as a company for instance has had numerous reports from people of strict enforcement and swift out of the park booting.

Disney has had these complaints for a long time. No they won't kick someone out of the park but every now and then they'll have a CM who takes a hard stance. I don't even know if I would be up for a severe penalty but it is clear that as a whole it ends up impacting guest experience and they know it, you'll see it sometimes on surveys, they get complaints but as of yet they've decided that for them as a company they'll focus their efforts elsewhere.

IMO if they had had a history of consistent and fair enforcement pre-pandemic you would still have pushback but perhaps more of a known expectation of what certain behaviors mean in action. Did we tell the kids no who made their way back through BTMRR with nachos in hand? No but it sure was irksome to watch that and it was plain to see that on guests faces as we heard commotion from behind us and could see them making their way through the line (we were before you get into the main queue structure so still outside but far enough into the queue).

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I can’t see Disney changing much as a result of this. Traditionally they seem to keep a neutral stance in the parks, likely so as not to “offend” anyone. How many stories have we read/discussed here on the Dis to that effect? (Lots!)

To me this incident is so sad to see. No need for it whatsoever. If someone passes me in line, I let them go. I’ve had to do it a time or two myself, so stuff happens.

The only time I remember not letting people go was when it was an obnoxious group that was obviously line cutting - part of their group was in line and a large group of friends came strolling by and they all began trying to squeeze in. And fortunately that didn’t turn into a brawl. (I’d read about a similar situation that did later on.)

By the same token, on one trip we had friends try to squeeze in with us and we told them no, as we knew there would be a problem, and rightfully so. Not everyone understand line etiquette.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Love this - so true. It's a theme park, not a bread line. I think about those long 1930s depression era food lines before there was food stamps or any other govt help - with all those people waiting so patiently for their turn, just hoping ad praying for a little something to bring home to feed their families. Can you imagine today's entitled crowd and how they'd behave in those dire times?

People who were in food lines were not normally near the type of people to go to theme parks. I do believe if we delved into history we'd find that those who did were of the utmost entitled folks in the time period you are mentioning.

There was a very interesting article I was reading yesterday about an amusement park in my area that quite honestly I had never heard of (but I'm sure my parents have) in my area that started operation in 1923 by a Sicilian immigrant. Until 1964 (just prior to the Civil Rights ruling) Blacks could not enter (unless by private group) although they performed there. It closed in the late '70s when the amusement park I grew up on opened as it could not compete with it. But it was really eye opening. It survived during the Depression and WWII but it defined its patrons by the color of their skin. There was a pool inside the park that even after 1964 was allowed to exclude Blacks because it was leased by a private club although the pool eventually closed several years later.

While I get the grander point of discussing how people were in the past also remember that in our past we were far worse in our treatment towards others in general. We cannot sing the praises of the generations in the past in their ability to stand in the line without realizing that many who were in that line were put there in a place of poverty (of all different ethnic backgrounds) by those in power on a systemic and often lifelong process.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I just read an article where there was a fight at Universal Orlando last night (in the parking lot by Citywalk) and there was a potential shooter threat (no weapons were found and it was a false threat). I know these altercations have always been happening and they aren't new, but they do certainly feel more common nowadays. Also shows that it isn't just Disney where this keeps happening.

 

[pwdebbie]

I've scanned through the entire thread and I am still confused.

"White top/red bottom group" didn't want to allow someone of the "other family" to return closer to the front of the queue with their family after retrieving a cell phone, correct?

"White top/red bottom group" waited at the exit to confront the "other family" whose family member had retrieved the cell phone, correct?

But it is the "other family" that were banned from the parks and forced to end their just-started two-week vacation, correct?

Someone explain / clarify please.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I just read an article where there was a fight at Universal Orlando last night (in the parking lot by Citywalk) and there was a potential shooter threat (no weapons were found and it was a false threat). I know these altercations have always been happening and they aren't new, but they do certainly feel more common nowadays. Also shows that it isn't just Disney where this keeps happening.

There was a huge fight in Knott's Berry Farm last weekend.

There have been fights at my local amusement park in the past although many seem to occur in the parking lot but last big one in 2019 was estimated to have about 300 teens involved according to the several police departments that went there (about 10-15 different fights that all sorta mixed together at the same time) and it was started inside the park. Then in 2021 a few girls (aged 12) were kicked and stomped on by a group of other girls (aged 13-17). You probably wouldn't have heard about this fight unless the parent went to the media (which she did) in the past but there's video of this one. That one was criticized because security wasn't there quickly enough and the fight was broken up by a bystander. In this case the mom of the 12 year old felt very disgusted that other Black people were just laughing and recording it and "a white woman stopped it" and she wanted to find out who she was so she could thank her and give her a hug. I haven't heard much about that one but I do wonder if there was charges because the girls did get beat up, had a mild concussion in one of them.

All these parks get fights, who is involved, where they likely occur (such as parking lot vs inside the park or inside a particular park), etc all can vary. Our local amusement park largely is going to be teens getting into fights as it's like dump your teen off and there you go place (I went as a teen with my friends so I was no different when I was younger in who went there a lot). There are multiple places that have curfews aimed at specific ages during the summer for a reason.

WDW I could see more adults getting into fighting, some purely off of a perceived "going to bat" for their kid a lot of "my kid" kind of mentality. Other parks you may see more youths in general because that's who gravitates towards there. I could see a tad older crowd at Universal especially with CityWalk but then at DLR perhaps again skewed younger given it's locals vibe.

I do think our attention is more zeroed in on them. Scuffles of the past may not have made much waves or gone viral. I don't know if they are happening more frequently or not but I do think perhaps there may be more of a brazenness to them?? I'm not sure I'm explaining that correctly but I hope it comes across what I'm meaning.

 

[anniemae]

I've scanned through the entire thread and I am still confused.

"White top/red bottom group" didn't want to allow someone of the "other family" to return closer to the front of the queue with their family after retrieving a cell phone, correct?

"White top/red bottom group" waited at the exit to confront the "other family" whose family member had retrieved the cell phone, correct?

But it is the "other family" that were banned from the parks and forced to end their just-started two-week vacation, correct?

Someone explain / clarify please.

Nobody really knows what happened, but your description is pretty much what people are saying happened. Watching the video, it looks like the cell phone family was not totally innocent. One man actually punched a woman in the face (the woman was white shirt family, and I am guessing man was from cell phone family). It looked like both groups were all fighting and hitting each other. The video is very confusing. I felt so bad for the cm's trying to contain it.

There are reports that matching shirt family waited for cell phone family outside the theater, so I am guessing they must have said something to cell phone family. If only cell phone family had walked away instead of fighting. Although we don't know who threw the first punch. If I had to guess I would think both families were banned, but I have only seen people saying the cell phone family was banned and kicked out of their hotel (Riviera) immediately after the fight. Maybe the matching shirt family was not staying on property.

 

[elgerber]

We were walking into Fantasyland and saw the white/red group walking out. They seemed very calm and quiet, but we noticed the two fully decked sheriffs, and the security guards walking a bit behind them. We then saw a medical emergency with a stretcher and paramedics and a lot of CM's standing around them blocking the view. It wasn't until we were waiting for Enchantment to start, in the garden, that we found out that this was what had happened. I was very glad we didn't get back there any earlier.
We also saw a man screaming at the CM at the tapstyle on our way in, and he also found himself being escorted aside by a fully decked out sheriff.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Maybe the matching shirt family was not staying on property.

And at least some of those family members were arrested so it's possible you wouldn't be able to hear from them because of that. I do wonder why we haven't heard from someone at least claiming to be part of the matching outfit family.

One man actually punched a woman in the face (the woman was white shirt family, and I am guessing man was from cell phone family).

That was my impression too but he did it so late it made me think something was said to him or to one of his family members because he seemed calm (well relatively speaking) and then all of a sudden threw a punch, it was like whoa what just happened, one minute he seems to be exiting the fray and then the next it's round 2.

 

[Smugpugmug]

There was a huge fight in Knott's Berry Farm last weekend.

There have been fights at my local amusement park in the past although many seem to occur in the parking lot but last big one in 2019 was estimated to have about 300 teens involved according to the several police departments that went there (about 10-15 different fights that all sorta mixed together at the same time) and it was started inside the park. Then in 2021 a few girls (aged 12) were kicked and stomped on by a group of other girls (aged 13-17). You probably wouldn't have heard about this fight unless the parent went to the media (which she did) in the past but there's video of this one. That one was criticized because security wasn't there quickly enough and the fight was broken up by a bystander. In this case the mom of the 12 year old felt very disgusted that other Black people were just laughing and recording it and "a white woman stopped it" and she wanted to find out who she was so she could thank her and give her a hug. I haven't heard much about that one but I do wonder if there was charges because the girls did get beat up, had a mild concussion in one of them.

All these parks get fights, who is involved, where they likely occur (such as parking lot vs inside the park or inside a particular park), etc all can vary. Our local amusement park largely is going to be teens getting into fights as it's like dump your teen off and there you go place (I went as a teen with my friends so I was no different when I was younger in who went there a lot). There are multiple places that have curfews aimed at specific ages during the summer for a reason.

WDW I could see more adults getting into fighting, some purely off of a perceived "going to bat" for their kid a lot of "my kid" kind of mentality. Other parks you may see more youths in general because that's who gravitates towards there. I could see a tad older crowd at Universal especially with CityWalk but then at DLR perhaps again skewed younger given it's locals vibe.

I do think our attention is more zeroed in on them. Scuffles of the past may not have made much waves or gone viral. I don't know if they are happening more frequently or not but I do think perhaps there may be more of a brazenness to them?? I'm not sure I'm explaining that correctly but I hope it comes across what I'm meaning.

Yeah I get what you're saying. The fight at UO was a group of unsupervised teens as well (the article I read said it was around 20 teens brawling with each other). I saw the video of the fight at Knott's as well and also saw that now Knotts has imposed a rule where teens MUST be supervised by an adult at all times.

Two out of the three malls in my area have a rule where ALL teens must be supervised by an adult due to previous issues with fights and loitering. Any unsupervised teens will be kicked out of the mall. I've seen this happen in the past, mainly during the summer months when school is out. I've even been stopped and asked for my ID since I still look like a teenager LOL

After the video of the Fantasyland fight came out, my mom told me that she saw a fight when I was a kid (don't remember this at all). She witnessed two adult women physically fighting over a specific Dumbo color. The irony of that is that they have since added a whole other Dumbo attraction to increase capacity but this happened before that. My dad also remembers once time we were leaving AK and we were about to get on the parking lot trams when a man physically pushed my dad out of the way and hopped on the tram (my dad didn't start a fight. He wasn't going to bother starting a conflict in the AK parking lot of all places). These Disney fights have always been going on; everyone has a smartphone so now they're more exposed than ever before.

 

[pahoben]

But still no reason to engage in that situation. Maybe parents today should teach...sticks and stones may break my bone but words will never hurt me.


I thought about something similiar yesterday. If one of our little ones or women had been knocked down or injured as an innocent bystander during that free for all? One of my DSs or DH would've had the offender on the ground. It would likely include a suspension. Although I doubt we would ever return anyways. An injury to a small child can be very very serious...even life threatening. It is an absolute miracle a child or elderly person wasn't injured in that altercation. A very, very scary situation....

Your example was odd and confusing, actually. He didn't "give up his seat" - he was asked to move from an assigned seat another party had purchased. How did he get in their seat to start with? Just board the train alone and plunk himself down? A very weird thing to do if the seats were actually assigned. Rather than just having the family who paid for the seats leave him in theirs and relocate themselves, why not physically assist the blind man to find the seat he actually paid for? Mobility is an issue for some people - I get that. But with support from others, he could very well have been taken safely to his own seat.

I boarded a commercial flight one time one time with capacity around 150 outside the US. This was a line cutting battle to the front culture. In any event this was a reserved seating flight. I was the second passenger to board and the first passenger to board actually sat in my assigned seat with 150 empty seats to choose from. I didn't even say anything and just sat in a different seat taking the chance someone would challenge where I was sitting. No one ever did. In some places if you don't try to line jump or work the edges of a crowd for better position then you just are cut out for always being last.

A good thing about that culture is that they always respected the right of the elderly and families with children to go to the front. Otherwise, be prepared to battle.

 

[anniemae]

And at least some of those family members were arrested so it's possible you wouldn't be able to hear from them because of that. I do wonder why we haven't heard from someone at least claiming to be part of the matching outfit family.


That was my impression too but he did it so late it made me think something was said to him or to one of his family members because he seemed calm (well relatively speaking) and then all of a sudden threw a punch, it was like whoa what just happened, one minute he seems to be exiting the fray and then the next it's round 2.

I was surprised too that we did not hear anything about/from them being banned, but I don't think it's possible that they weren't banned. Like you, I heard 1 or 2 of the matching shirt family were arrested. Like I said, I feel like it's possible they were staying off site so Disney could not kick them out like they did the cell phone family. They could have still banned them though.

In the video, there were a few points where it looked like everyone was cooling off and the fighting was coming to an end, then someone would casually walk up and smack someone from the other family and it would start up again.

 

[AustinTink]

In the video, there were a few points where it looked like everyone was cooling off and the fighting was coming to an end, then someone would casually walk up and smack someone from the other family and it would start up again.

Neither side could drop it.